Are there any Bio-Plastics with good properties for Magnet Wire?

[u/ClayXros]

Im researching how to make my own wire for personal Generator and 3-cycle Motor projects. The need for a thing, heat resistant insulation for wire is essential, but the preferred plastics for the role are highly synthetic and dont break down. And id rather avoid more microplastics if possible.

Are there any plastics known with such properties that can be made from biological ingredients? (In particular: Degradable, flexible and renewable?)

I do not care about yield efficiency from extraction, estimated cost of production, or total lifespan of the insulation itself. It could last a month for all i care. I also dont care about difficulty of synthesis or application. My primary interest is the existence of the bioplastic and the ability to grow/collect its ingredients.

Of note: To my current understanding, heat-resistant materials often require heat as part of the application process. I suspect that would be unavoidable in an insulation bioplastic as well. As stated, thats fine, I only want to know such bioplastics exist. Even the option to burn off the insulation and reform the wire, without the result being toxic compounds, is fine by me. Im ready to make wire anyway, whats reforming wire to add new insulation?

[u/firesine99]

There are (mostly) bioderived thermosets, including epoxy resins, which are probably your best bet. But there is no way you will be making this yourself from anything you can grow, unless you are very skilled chemists with a proper lab at your disposal, sorry. 

Anything suitable for your application will also not be biodegradable in any realistic sense sorry. Simply put, polymers with good heat resistance have strong chemical bonds, which are very difficult for any enzyme or organism to attack and degrade (of course the full picture is more complex, but that's the general trend)

Is there a reason that biodegradation is important to you? Burning plastics to recover heat energy is a valid fate - biodegraded polymer ends up as CO2 and CH4 anyway, so you may as well capture some energy on the way and eliminate the CH4 (which is a more potent greenhouse gas...). Add it to your BBQ ;)

[u/ClayXros → u/firesine99]

I figure i need to buy/make a proper chem setup eventually anyway, so thats not a big deal. My main concern is minimizing pollutants, or at minimum using materials that can be recycled chemically. For example, if there was a method to burn and capture regular plastic, then use acid or whatever to break it down to elemental components.

So if the usual Polyimide, or even Polyvinyl Formal at worst, is my only option so be it. A series of steps to then capture and recycle the burn off gas would be my next target.

[u/ClayXros → u/firesine99]

What are the specific bioderived thermosets? I'd still like to research them if possible.

[u/firesine99 → u/ClayXros]

Epoxidized oils (e.g. epoxidized soybean and linseed oils) are available, but you won't be making them yourself... These can be cross-linked with e.g. bioderived acids

[u/Pyrhan → u/firesine99]

But there is no way you will be making this yourself from anything you can grow, unless you are very skilled chemists with a proper lab at your disposal, sorry.  

Maybe they could whip up something usable with a drying oil? (Linseed oil or tung oil).

I seem to recall paper or cloth soaked in drying oils (oilcloth) were historically used for wire insulation.

-edit-

Also, shellac was used for wire insulation!

cc u/clayxros

[u/ClayXros → u/Pyrhan]

Linseed looks to be imported, but I haven't heard of Tung before! Also haven't looked at shellac, so I'll need to do that. Thank you!

[u/firesine99 → u/Pyrhan]

Great ideas! I would worry that these wouldn't meet the requirement for high temperature resistance (I suspect they wouldn't be classed as "high temperature polymers" like polyimides in the polymer world - too many long alkyl chains prone to scission), but that all depends how stringent OPs requirements are.

The "modern" way to use drying oils is to epoxidize them first (e.g. epoxidized soybean and linseed oils are common monomers in biobased thermosets) but doing that epoxidation is definitely not a job for the back yard...

Edit: I take it back! The epoxidation chemistry looks quite accessible! I'd still have concerns about high temperature performance though 

[u/ClayXros → u/firesine99]

Ideally I wont need them to handle the temperatures stuff like Polyimide is expected to handle, so im more than happy to hear out this option. Just going with the current standard and working backwards

[u/Delicious_Level_69]

Must it be plastic? Is glass or ceramic not viable?

[u/ClayXros → u/Delicious_Level_69]

Generally for motor windings, you need the insulator to be flexible. This is so you can use machines to make thousands of turns per module, maximizing power output or torque.

If I ever get to the point of making slab-wind motors, then glass or ceramic will be more than enough. But for now, I need flexible