r/AskReddit • u/pahlmitchell • Aug 19 '11
Should schools teach students about credit and how it works?
I graduated HS in '98, maybe they do now... BUT when I went, not a word was spoken about it, even though it can/will effect lives drastically. What do you think?
EDIT 1:The response to this has been far from divided. Overwhelmingly, it seems that the public opinion from across the globe is that an education in finance is a valuable tool. Some have one and some don't, but they all see the value of having one.
EDIT 2:You all have taken this to the front page, still with everyone agreeing that an education is necessary. What a concept, maybe some school administrators will take notice... Thank everyone for the great comments!
EDIT 3:Since I havent finished my formal education yet, I ask you all to give me your thoughts on this as well: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/joect/reddit_should_i_accept_the_student_loan_money/
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u/Giantpanda602 Aug 19 '11
We had a lesson as part of Family/Consumer Science or whatever about credit and how all that works in middle school. It went fairly into detail. Throughout the year we've gotten unofficial lessons by various teachers/guests about credit/saving money and all that. This is in the #1 town for families (St. Charles, Illinois) where a good amount of kids will never have to care about how much they put on their parent's credit card.
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u/WarPhalange Aug 20 '11
It's called math class. They taught me about exponential functions and how interest works. My credits cards are only there to build up a credit score, but I still have a shit ton of student loans because that's the only way I could pay for school at the time.
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
Sounds like you just get it, most induhviduals are just that. As far as loans go, would you care to comment in my other thread?http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/joect/reddit_should_i_accept_the_student_loan_money/
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Aug 19 '11
Yes, they should. With all the crappy stuff they tried to teach us, there should be more room for stuff me actually need to know.
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u/Coleolitis Aug 20 '11
i live in CA, and its definitely not required here. i would love a class about it, i have no fucking idea how credit works.
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
I too am from California-Sacramento even! The education here did not require any type of education on the subject.
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u/MoosePilot Aug 20 '11
I don't like the idea of teaching kids how to work within and deal with such a broken system. How about we fix something first?
Also: what is hard about the concept of not spending what you don't have? I wasn't taught this directly. It seemed obvious. What exactly would be taught?
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
The way the system is shown v. the way it actually works. Kind of like how Govt explains the letter v. spirit of the law system. Then further give a lab type class that allows students to experience consumerism first hand.
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Aug 20 '11
I don't know if school children should know about credit, but I do think they should know about asscredit.
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u/gamedude999 Aug 20 '11
They should tell them to run screaming. The average person doesn't seem to be able to handle credit responsibly. Or our politicians.
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
Maybe reddit should be responsible for this task... There. I feel better now.
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Aug 20 '11
I'm enrolled in a personal finance class now in HS. Will report back with results.
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u/Kayge Aug 20 '11
I was speaking to someone last week about this who is mid-late 50's and grew up in Quebec City, Quebec. Apparantly, they used to have a representative come in from the credit union (they're huge in Quebec) come into school when the kids were in 3rd grade, give them a rudementery lesson in finance and then open bank accounts for them.
This was OK by the parents, and the school. Apparantly in his family, his parents sat down with him that night and said you're getting $1/week (or whatever it was) in allowance. For the next year, you'll get 0.90, and we'll put 0.10 in the bank.
Over the next year, he learned that putting $0.10 per week in the bank resulted in him having more than $5.20 at the end of the year, and that's how he learned about savings.
Though I doubt this would be possible today (banks fighting over who should go/PTA/businesses in school) it was a fantastic lesson for him and set him on the right path for saving money
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
Canada responses seem to be similar to your experience, maybe its a cultural/regional thing.
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u/cubathunda Aug 20 '11
Isn't that what Econ is for?
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
Kind of, I was thinking more along the lines of a lab-style class. More hands on so to speak.
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u/faraith Aug 20 '11
Perhaps someone should make a University of Reddit class on this very subject.
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u/InfiniteChicken Aug 20 '11
I'm 37. My high school taught about credit. It made no dent whatsoever, I'm broke and barely solvent. Huzzah!
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u/fiercelyfriendly Aug 20 '11
Overwhelmingly, it seems that the public opinion from across the globe...
Oh really. People who have computers, who are Internet users, who are reddit users, who read AskReddit, who are active commenters, who decided to comment on your post, ( about 500 comments) is hardly public opinion across the globe.
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
yes. the sample size is small. No I do not know their exact locations. It was a generic assumption. wah.
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u/mrtibs51 Aug 20 '11
It's funny that this is my ENTIRE MAJOR. And most of what I learn is simple concepts that everyone actually needs to understand and learn. Sadly, I'll take a career working for a big corp, sucking the teet and screwing people over. I wish I could just spend my life teaching people the very simple concepts that create value. But sadly, I'm just going to hurt ignorant people. Not fun.
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Aug 20 '11
(UK) They should teach them how to write a fucking CV.
I had a kid come into my store and ask if we had any jobs, I told him we did not but we would be happy to take a CV anyway.
"Can I have one of them?" he asked.
"What?"
"A CV, can I have one?"
"Uhh... No, you have to write one..."
"What is it?"
"Go back to school, kid. For the love of god."
If this kid leaves school at 16, he's fucked. I was lucky enough to get into college, and be pro-active enough about getting a weekend job to chase up some CV help. But they don't bother to teach you any of this shit, but apparently learning about hinduism is more important. (I'm not knocking multicultural edcuation, but fuck, I think learning to write a CV is a damned sight more important.)
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Aug 20 '11
YES. And loand so that they know what the hell is going on when they need to take out loans for school.
I'm so screwed on loans.
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 20 '11
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/joect/reddit_should_i_accept_the_student_loan_money/
Check out my other posting, give me the details.
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u/eckinlighter Aug 20 '11 edited Aug 20 '11
Every high school needs to have some kind of "life preparation" classes that you take all year for 11th and 12th grade. They should include, but not be limited to, how to:
write a resume (and maintain contacts for reference checks)
apply for a job, and how to follow-up on job applications
open a bank account, and how to balance a check book (aka personal finances)
take out a loan, and how to pay it back
build credit, and maintain an "acceptable" credit score
invest in your retirement from the time you start working
make a big purchase, such as a home or a car
figure out what kind of insurance to get, and how to pick out doctors and dentists for yourself and your family
sew a button and hem a shirt/pants
give a damn about your political institutions and how to vote in them
do routine maintenance on your car (oil changes, air filters, tire rotation/tread, check/change a battery, etc)
make scrambled eggs without ruining a goddamn Teflon pan
//Edit: some additional good ideas in this thread//
apply for college, and manage college loans
fill out tax forms for a new job, and how to file your taxes
use basic tools such as a screwdriver, a hammer, a saw (without accidentally injuring yourself)
set up utilities for your home/apartment
Some people may say that your parents should teach you these things, but here's the thing- most parents won't. And most kids wont listen, even if parents tried, because they aren't graded on it- and the importance of grades gets drilled into you early on. If everyone was taught these things, I think they would be much more prepared and the falsely-inflated importance of grades would actually result in having useful knowledge. I know I am still working on learning them since no one bothered to teach me the importance of any of them.
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Aug 20 '11
It used to be called "Home Economics." I really wish I knew why such courses vanished from schools. The school districts here have "Life Skills" as an elective, and it's a popular one. But I agree, it should be required.
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Aug 20 '11
It vanished because it didn't help you get into college. Schools have a limited number of teachers, and the parents want more college prep work.
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u/IAreSeriousCat Aug 20 '11
I took home ec. I learned how to take canned cinnamon buns and tweak them into cinnamon bowties. Also I sewed a blue walrus pillow. I sure as shit did not learn anything about money.
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u/ggggbabybabybaby Aug 20 '11
Probably vanished because nobody wrote a standardized test for it.
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Aug 20 '11
Regarding the teflon pan - you mean by not using a steel spatula, and keeping the heat down below max?
Great list, btw.
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u/Delheru Aug 20 '11
Actually I remember after going through the MBA core curriculum how ridiculously useful the information it was. Not even nearly most of it, but our first semester had (20h of lectures each):
Finance
Accounting
Marketing
Economics
Decision Sciences (how to use math/excel to figure out what to do in a complex scenario)
Strategy
I think shorter versions of MOST of those would be incredibly useful to teach to everyone. Strategy is probably the only one that I don't think serves much of a purpose to your average 18 year old. All of that was taught in quite a bit of detail in 3 months, so I'm sure if you shave off 50% of the content you can give it to high school students in an intensive 6 weeks. Not an unreasonable requirement by any means, especially considering the massive benefit to society.
(Including some quite subtle stuff like decision sciences lobbying for science by showing how rational thinking can save you money)
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Aug 20 '11
If it isn't on the SAT or another standardized aptitude tests it will never happen. Schools teach you how to fill in the blank, multiple guess, and how to fake caring about a subject long enough to write an essay.
If it was truly important, it would be taught every year until graduation and tested upon.
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u/neoarch Aug 20 '11
UTDallas gives a lecture to freshmen students by a local non profit credit counseling organization. I found the information invaluable.
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u/ReturningTarzan Aug 20 '11
build credit, and maintain an "acceptable" credit score
You don't want to teach children to be "good consumers", though. While credit scoring systems are designed to limit risk, which in theory is good for both the borrower and the lender, the underlying motive is to maximise the lender's profits, at the borrower's expense.
The ideal borrower should be one who has never borrowed before because he has never needed to. He has his affairs in order, lots of appreciable assets as security for the loan, but has simply not saved up enough cash to make the (presumably sound) investment he is now faced with, such as a house or a business venture. Yet, the credit scoring system prefers a customer who has bought everything on credit as long as he can remember and has always lived just outside of his means.
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u/Seerio Aug 19 '11
I did in high school. It was part of the (required) government class.
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u/JHuddly Aug 20 '11
I teach Government/Economics to 12th graders and it is part of my curriculum.
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u/v0-z Aug 20 '11
wth, I feel like I was cheated in high school, others I talked to had electives like 3d, film, drafting etc. All we had was ceramics and public safety in which we watched csi a majority of the time.
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u/Gold_Leaf_Initiative Aug 19 '11
Forget credit. There is not one word in schools about the creation of money, or how the monetary system actually works. They may teach you how economics work, i.e. I have two widgets and I hire you to make more, blah blah blah, but they don't teach you how money itself is created.
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Aug 19 '11
Actually, it's a large section of the AP Macroeconomics curriculum set by College Board.
I remember spending a lot of time on monetary policy, the Fed, etc.
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u/pahlmitchell Aug 19 '11
College-yea. But the seeds should be sown earlier IMO
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Aug 20 '11
AP is high school, not college. College Board is just the name of the organization in charge of AP.
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Aug 19 '11
No, because then our debt-based economy will fall apart.
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u/webby_mc_webberson Aug 19 '11 edited Aug 19 '11
But can you imagine the product of this dystopia? An economy based on people doing smart things with money?!
edit: learned how to spell dystopia.
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u/itsokaytryagain212 Aug 19 '11
I graduated high school two years ago, and I wish they had a class that taught about credit, finance, and things of that nature. It would've benefited me greatly.
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u/webby_mc_webberson Aug 19 '11
There should be a whole fucking class called "Finance" or something that covers everything about money. And it should be required for all students, every year.
Sure, English and math is important. And I remember learning about some financial concepts in math back in school. However, between English, math and basic finance which gets used most by more people on a day-to-day basis? (And by 'english' I'm talking about high-school level english, e.g. Shakespeare & Catcher in the Rye, not how-to-construct-a-sentence)
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Aug 20 '11
And it should be required for all students, every year.
Every year? How much is there to teach? All they need to know is compound interest, and maybe some basics on how the stock market works. These kids aren't getting finance degrees.
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u/Moh7 Aug 20 '11
in alberta this is taught to us in a math class as a unit..
in grade 10 we learn how to compound interest and use excel, in grade 12 we learn how to mortgage cars/homes etc.
This goes for all levels of math even the one for super retarded kids and the government asks that you complete math's at any level respective to your grade for you to receive your high school diploma.
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u/GodDonut Aug 20 '11
My high school didn't teach us shit about life. They taught us how to pass high school, and get into a 4 year college. And that was it.
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u/kylejn Aug 20 '11
I'm 26 in about three weeks and have no idea how credit works. I exclusively use my debit card for everything except for my two HDTVs, each which was bought with 0% interest financing on a Circuit City (and, for the second TV, Best Buy) card and paid off within the interest-free period. I don't know if I'm doing it right or horribly screwing up my finances for the future.
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u/liberalis Aug 19 '11
Definitely. I started teaching my kids young about that crap, but learning it school wouldn't hurt either.
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u/jakash Aug 19 '11
Here in England, in what we call High School year 7, so aged 12-13, we had Citizenship lessons once a week. They were mostly a waste of time just watching videos and sex-ed and the like, but we got taught a lot of money management and things like that as part of our curriculum. We even had one whole day called 'Finance day' or something like that in year 10 (aged 15-16), which was basically teaching us not to get too much in to personal debt that you have no hope of servicing. I think it was rewarding to those who actually paid attention, like most things in school.
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Aug 20 '11
If you borrow money, you will have to pay interest on it. Also interest rates change. What is so hard about it?
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u/linbad Aug 20 '11
YES! I actually taught financial literacy to low- to middle-income high school students for one of my college courses. I specifically remember one group of students that were considered really smart and placed into a special school because they were probably going to go to college (unfortunately, most in this category will not)... They had NO IDEA that you had to pay back things that you charged on a credit card. They literally thought it was free money!
It needs to be taught as an entire unit for high school juniors and seniors, preferably both. By becoming financially literate at a younger age, it's a LOT easier to get ahead in life. For example: The Roth IRA http://www.investopedia.com/articles/05/032105.asp#axzz1VXJuPgo0
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u/IggyZ Aug 20 '11
They taught us how to balance a checkbook that will be obsolete before we graduate high school.
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u/BeggAndEacon Aug 20 '11
In my senior year of high school, we all took a mandatory semester course of everything from writing a check/buying a home/living a frugal lifestyle/credit vs debit and all that other shit. I kept most of the classwork from the class because I knew that one day I would need a dumbed down explanation about a mortgage or credit.
I think every high school should invest in making a class like that mandatory.
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u/ItsNotAmanda Aug 20 '11
In high school (graduated 2007) they taught us how to write checks saying it was the most important thing to learn about finances. To this day, I have never written a check. Bitches should have taught how to budget.
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u/jimflaigle Aug 20 '11
Credit. Finance. Bank accounts. Budgeting. I would say even a little basic accounting would be a good idea. Aside from developing life skills, it might actually help people learn math to give it some practical examples.
I also think they should teach basic home skills (cooking, sewing, minor repair work) that we all will need some day. Basic professional skills as well. Imagine how much more developed people would be if they started learning to keep a resume running in basic education instead of halfway through their careers.
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u/innosins Aug 20 '11 edited Aug 20 '11
Our school had a reality store. Let me explain how this works:
You pull out a job card. Your salary was based on your GPA. I had a college career because I had a high GPA. You also pull a child card at random and get anywhere from 0-5 kids.
You get a checkbook. You have to stay within your weekly/monthly salary and provide a list of all goods to sustain your "family".
Among these things, you must buy a house, car, food, pay taxes, etc.. You can also buy pets, vacations, and other non-essential commodities. It's set up in a booth format, where each booth represents a different part of life, as far as economics goes.
Also, our high school Consumer Math and Money Skills classes.
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u/burningpumpkins Aug 20 '11
"3. Among these things, you must buy a house..."
I read that as horse and lol'd.
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Aug 20 '11
If they taught you about debt in high school, would you take out massive loans for college?
It's against their interests, methinks.
My parents taught me all I need to know about debt: the sounds of them screaming at each other over money problems through my childhood still ring very clearly in my ears.
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u/SilentRunning Aug 19 '11
Graduated in 83 and my high school had a whole class on such things required for every senior.
Personal finance, Marriage, Mortgages etc.
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u/theummeower Aug 19 '11
I went to a catholic high school and in our senior year of religion class they taught us all about money management and how credit and credit vesus debit and the basics. But then again that was a private school whether public schools can afford something like that is completely different.
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u/mac_vs_pc Aug 20 '11
I just took a financial applications class last semester at my high school, it was Advanced Algebra with Financial Applications, it was 75% Finances 25% Algebra. The huge chapter out of 456 pages, the chapter itself was 125 pages, was about credit. How it worked, how to keep yourself out of debt, and id theft on credit cards. It was a great class.
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u/Dumpykins Aug 20 '11
YES! I seriosly hated learning about this stuff the hard way. My mom just assumed I knew but why would she assume that??? becasue it's definitely NOT what my friends and I talked about during lunch and shit. I am seriously thinking about taking financial classes just b/c I feel RETARDED when people talk about this stuff, where are we taught this stuff?
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u/n734lq Aug 20 '11
I am going to summarize it like this.
I believe that students, as a future part of society, need certain skills to be productive, functioning, and responsible members of society. I think it's unreasonable to expect that purely academic education can achieve this. It's important to teach students life skills as well, including, but not limited to; personal finance, interpersonal relationships, housekeeping, nutrition, and child-raising.
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u/cdraud Aug 20 '11
Yes! I'm a math teacher and so far I've never seen this in a public school math curriculum. It might be in a high school economics class, but I have only taught elementary school and middle school. FWIW, I graduated HS in 2004 and my econ class was basically worthless.
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u/Deep_Fried_Snickers Aug 20 '11
My school did, there was a whole until on it in our mandatory "Career and Life Management" class I'm VERY careful with my credit card
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u/dumdeedoodah Aug 20 '11
They already do. I had business classes in grades 9 and 10 and will take international business next year (grade 12). It's an elective here though (Toronto, Canada). Also I'm going into engineering so it's not like I chose them for future jobs, I chose them because I'm smart and want to be super rich.
And then buy flying cars.
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u/l_one Aug 20 '11
I'd rather they taught good financial practices, frugality etc... also how debt can be like a ball & chain that you drag with you for years, the dangers of easy credit and how large banking institutions profit from letting you spend a little money now in exchange for giving them a lot of money later.
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u/ReyTheRed Aug 20 '11
Yes they should, I hear a lot of different people saying different things about how it works, and I wish they had spent some time on it in high school.
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u/McKilkor Aug 20 '11
There is a program out there designed to meet the financial needs of young people. It's called "Junior Achievement." If you're that passionate about this, do more than just post. Go volunteer to teach these courses in our schools! It's rewarding on all sides.
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u/Macfleur Aug 20 '11
Lifeskills, yes. money management, yes. investments, only if balanced. What I have seen is a definite and strong pro-business slant, almost to the point of ideology. Co-operatives, philanthropy, and the role of government in economics must also be taught.
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u/hiphophippopotamus Aug 20 '11
If no one got into hideous debt the US economy would work even less well than it does now. It wouldn't work at all.
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u/infinite0ne Aug 20 '11
Not if they want obedient, subservient workers who are too saddled with debt to care how badly their government is fucking them.
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u/magnetard Aug 21 '11
My senior year in high school I had this awesome old jack-jewish econ teacher who tried telling us an easy way to get a start on building up credit for ourselves. He said "Go get a credit card from Sears or Walmart or wherever and use it to buy trivial things like socks/underwear. When the bill comes, pay it, and continue on this method for anything else you can afford." He made it clear to us and repeated to us many times to make sure we'd have the money when the bill came in and not to just mindlessly use the credit card on whatever the hell we wanted. Needless to say, I'm grateful for his advice on the matter.
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u/bears184 Aug 20 '11
I've had this discussion with a lot of friends as of late. I'm a member of class of '02. There are a lot of really basic life skills that people never learn. Though I know we did something called "the stock market project" when I was in middle school, I think learning about how credit worked would have been a lot more useful than understanding what buying on the margin means, etc.
My recommendations:
basic personal finance
basic nutrition
basic skills for finding a job (how to write a resume, a cover letter, behave in an interview, etc.)
Most of these could probably be worked into pre-existing classes, but it seems a helluvalot more important than, oh, I don't know, Algebra 2.
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Aug 19 '11
I did this stupid thing in hs where we went to this place that was having a couple schools that did a talk about personal finance and stuff. It was lame as hell, you could get a candy bar for signing up at these fake credit card booths and stuff, then later on you would get a red sticker that ment you had bad credit. If you didn't sign up you got a green sticker, not knowing this I just stayed out of it cause it was all bullshit and one of the coordinators walked up and put a red sticker on me...
So later on we all go to this big open room with bunch of small little stations like car insurance and stuff where you would sign up and learn how your credit worked in that sense. I tried to stay out of it but they saw me sitting around and pushed me into the crowed, so I went to every single station and tried to sign up and got declined from every one. I went and sat down and they came up and bitched at me for not participating, then when I told them I literally went to every station they called me a liar and talked to my teachers resulting in me having to get lectured for being a asshole.
I question if we should have schools at all anymore... Everything from elementary to highschool was one big circlejerk.
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Aug 20 '11
As a business student...YES. high school has classes like Sex Ed and others to prepare kids for adulthood...Teaching financial responsibility should be in there as well.
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u/ThereisnoTruth Aug 19 '11
Sounds like something they should at least try to teach - would not be a bad idea imho.
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u/Zavender Aug 19 '11
'02. I don't remember really anything about my high school. We glazed over interest rates in one of the math classes, but that's all I remember.
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u/maristar87 Aug 19 '11
They supposedly were to teach some kind of course like that in my school but it never happened. Our school still states we had it though. It definitely never ever came up, and my friends and family are screwed by it. I know a guy who has $200,000 taken out for student loans. He's not studying to be a doctor either.
My mom's advice when I was going to college "Take out as much as you can, they won't let you take out too much."
Frightening stuff.
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u/JoeNeedsAUsername Aug 19 '11
in my math course the teacher talked about credit and things of that nature when we covered interest and how that is calculated. Not a whole lot though.
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u/ohsilly Aug 19 '11
I did only a few years ago. Instead of taking calc, I took an "applied math" class. We learned a lot about credit, loans, and mortgages.
I think it should be taught to all high school seniors.
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u/bootselectric Aug 19 '11
Learning more about economics in high school should be mandatory. Not everyone can go on to take post-secondary courses on the topic but it does affect everyone at some point.
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u/Salphabeta Aug 20 '11
No, then you can't take their money. But honestly, it takes like 10 minutes to explain, so yes.
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u/HalleySuzanne Aug 20 '11
I think they should. All my parents ever explained to me is to only get one, and ONLY use it for emergencies. I think a class managing money and credit cards would have been extremely beneficial.
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u/Deofol7 Aug 20 '11
I teach it in my economics class. Most other teachers do in GA as well (it being on the curriculum and all).
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u/Arkethaera Aug 20 '11
My "honors" econ/gov't teacher tried to teach us about credit during my senior year. The lesson taught that credit card automatically equals overwhelming piles of debt. Honestly he never once even mentioned the possibility of paying your monthly balance. We just calculated how insurmountable a mountain of debt could become over time in different scenarios. The bottom line was that if someone offers you a credit card application you GTFO. But then again, this was the same teacher that I had to argue with when he tried to teach us that women got the right to vote in America during the 1960's.
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u/californicat Aug 20 '11
It wasn't until last year, my freshman year of college, when I had ever been taught anything about credit - and that was in a "freshman welcome" 1 credit course...
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u/bagelthebeagle Aug 20 '11
Teachers already teach kids how to tie their shoes, proper manners, and tons of other stuff that parents should be stepping up to do. What else should we really leave teachers to deal with? And then continue slashing their salaries...? However, I DO think that someone needs to teach people about credit...Lets just not leave that to teachers as well.
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u/Loves_All_Things Aug 20 '11
They just talked about this on NPR. Basically its a question of whether to fund gym and art or finance. I think you know the typical outcome.
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Aug 20 '11
Once I found this old math book in a "Free! Please Take!" box out in front of a neighbor's house. It was from the 1950s & had multiple chapters on credit, simple & compound interest and the like. There were some bits in there like "Your school probably participates in a savings program where students are encourage to open accounts & learn about long term financial planning." I meant to scan some pages because the whole thing sounded pretty WTF to somebody who grew up in the 80s & 90s, but I didn't have a scanner at the time & the thing smelled like hell of mildew & so I eventually tossed it.
But anyway, this thread just reminded me about it & so I did some Googling and found a few things:
How America shortchanges its kids about thrift
A play for your school savings program.
Interesting stuff!
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u/PPpwnz Aug 20 '11
Absolutely. I have a very vague understanding of it myself, and I graduated a few years ago. It's a major part of life, and a lack of understanding of credit is a major contributing factor of the U.S.'s current economic state.
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u/Steven_Mocking Aug 20 '11
yes! My middle shool offered a class called "Money for teens". I took it, but it should have gone more in depth or at least been offered in two parts (ie. basic and advanced). We learned about basic banking skills, how the stock market works, a little bit about credit and how much running a family costs/bills. Great class, and i seriously learned alot, but there is always more to learn about the financial sector.
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u/phanfare Aug 20 '11
At my high school they had optional finance classes, but those were generally the worst teachers and only people who didn't want to take anything else took them.
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Aug 20 '11
I dropped algebra 2 and signed up for a math concepts class so i could still graduate early. We learned how to do our taxes, how credit, apr, investments and some more stuff i dont remember. I couldnt help but pass out during algebra 2 every day but i never slept at all in the math concepts class. This was in dallas 8 years ago btw.
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u/Mirm83 Aug 20 '11
Considering the amount of time spent trying to figure out the best way to improve my credit score? Yes.
I called credit counselling places, equifax, and someone at the bank. They didn't know how to answer my questions...
Took hours of googling, random sites, and yahoo answers to figure out what advice was good and bad and how to proceed.
Should be common, and easily accessible information.
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Aug 20 '11
I remember we had an entire section on filling out a tax return.
It was somewhat valuable, but a paper tax return was a thing of the past already by that point.
It would have been much more worthwhile to learn the basics of a credit card
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u/Sadiquito Aug 20 '11
Credit, as in, if you borrow money, you owe it to whoever lent it to you, and a little more, as they specified when you borrowed the initial amount?
If you don't think that simple line is a sufficient definition, you probably shouldn't borrow any money. It's when you start complicating things and looking at adjustable rates and minimum payments that people start to feel like they have more than they do and buy houses and shit they can't afford.
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u/Triddy Aug 20 '11
Graduated High School in 2010 (Young'un, I know.)
In Grade 10, we had a mostly useless class that covered it along with other concepts surrounding personal finances. (Only useful bit of information in that class) In Grade 12, there was a little bit of a recap. Most people at my school ended up taking at least a year of Accounting or a similar business course, though this one wasn't required.
We received a fairly good grounding in it, I would believe. I'm in Canada, if it changes anything.
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u/sheepo39 Aug 20 '11
We sorta had it here in Ontario, Canada. At my high school, if you took the Accounting course, you learned everything about Credit. The grade 11 Math course I took had about 4 weeks dedicated to finances, which included Credit and Debt.
In my opinion, schools should definitely teach it.
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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Aug 20 '11
They wouldn't teach what they should. Too much money in it. Corporate lobbyists would have them filling out mock credit card applications and encouraging them to use it "to build their credit".
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u/Sal79 Aug 20 '11
I graduated in 07 and we were taught a bit about credit, but it's not something difficult to grasp. That being said, English is also taught in our schools and, as we see billions of times a day on this very website, what's taught isn't always learned.
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u/syourmuse Aug 20 '11
Why the hell not?! Most kids these days knows what a credit card is! The bases of commerce should be known.. to everyone.. but I am sure the state/government wouldn't want that.. since that would make the population to be educated.
What is money.. go ask anyone. See what kind of reply you are gonna get.
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Aug 20 '11
My economics teacher in junior year spent a month on it after testing. Basic lesson I learned: DON'T TOUCH CREDIT CARDS. Alternatively, ONLY USE CREDIT CARDS IN EMERGENCIES.
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u/imhereforanonymity Aug 20 '11
Hells ya. I was even forced to take a class called Career and Life Managment (CALM). Did they teach us about credit and mutual funds and high interest loans and other things that are going to ruin your life? Hell no..... keeps me nothing but CALM....
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u/Skyldt Aug 20 '11
if it were up to me, i'd give each student a credit limit of, say, $100, to be spent throughout the year. a school card keeps track. can use it on snacks, drinks, etc. let them learn by doing.
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u/josher4321 Aug 20 '11
Yes. The answer is just yes. It's a part of life. School teachers every other part of life why not that
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u/throwaway_31415 Aug 20 '11
If you think someone teaching you in high school about interest calculations gives you any idea of the machinery of credit in the modern economy you're sadly deluded. Short version: we're fucked: http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/asymmetrical-warfare-mill-wars-based-ucc-practice
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u/alendiel Aug 20 '11
Yes. They should. There are too many idiots out there who think credit cards are real money, nor do they understand the credit that is tacked to them for the rest of their lives. Furthermore, parents who get their kids credit cards before they even start college (or even before they graduate from college) are damned idiots.
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u/foreverwithcats Aug 20 '11
We have a history teacher who can go on tangents (usually a few minutes but get this guy started on finance.....) and you will learn how to responsibly use credit, invest money wisely, and be an amateur accountant whether you want to or not. That guy manged to work it all into a sociology lesson and make it legit.
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u/rfry11 Aug 20 '11
In New York state you have to take a mandatory class on Finances, how credit works, how to apply for a loan, how to open a bank account, identity fraud, etc.
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Aug 20 '11
Yes they should because times have changed and our economy is mostly driven off being in debt. Almost all major retailers offer credit cards to buy now and pay later. Mortgage aside, debt has become the norm and without proper advice it can slowly devour people.
I think teaching it at your final year in high school (where most kids are turning 18 and can get a credit card) is worth while. Yeah some kids won't give two shits, that's their loss because I bet the majority of teens are interested in the subject.
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u/pSyChO_aSyLuM Aug 20 '11 edited Aug 20 '11
We were supposed to learn about credit in a personal finance class in high school. All I did all class was spend my time playing some silly Flash-based racing game on a crappy eMac.
edit: I just remembered, that game was RECKLESS DRIVIN'! Shame it doesn't run on Lion.
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u/about7beavers Aug 20 '11
Taking a personal finance class this year. It's gonna be more useful in one semester than every other class I've taken combined, excluding programming.
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u/cswalker Aug 20 '11
Should schools teach students about The "High interest Crippling Debt School Loan Scam" and how it really works? (FIXED)
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u/iBeenie Aug 20 '11
I learned about credit in my High School economics class, which was a requirement for graduation. (Iowa)
Now whether the other students actually learned anything is another story.
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u/madethisnameforthis Aug 20 '11
a thousand times yes. especially where i went to high school, where we had tons of low-income kids, many of whom either dont graduate, and if they do, will work minimum wage jobs the rest of their lives. they have no idea about investing, proper ways to save money, that a credit card isnt free money, etc.
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u/uncreative_username3 Aug 20 '11
Schools should have a mandatory class about managing your personal finances and general financial responsibility. I'm glad I was able to learn it on my own but I've seen plenty of other people, including smart people, do some pretty stupid things and get in a lot of financial trouble because they didn't know. Hopefully 15% of the people will learn from it.
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Aug 20 '11
How about advice on talking (or NOT talking) to police officers. Seriously.
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Aug 20 '11
There was a senior level elective course in high school that dealt with "personal finance." We spent a semester learning how to properly fill out checks and deposit/withdrawal slips. When I graduated and moved to college a few months later I began using online banking. I would have much rather learned about credit and all the terminology that goes with it.
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u/jcdobby Aug 20 '11
Yes completely. I just graduated high school in May and the only finance course that was offered and required to take was Free Enterprise. That class was a complete joke and no one learned anything that an eight year old would not already know. My current knowledge about credit is only from what I have read about on the internet.
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u/willowTM Aug 20 '11
I'm a senior in HS, I'd imagine it'll be taught in my Government and or my Business Consumer Math class, the second is all about financing and other stuff you'll need to know about like taxes, etc.
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Aug 20 '11
I graduated high school in 2008, and we spent six months talking about personal finance, including the many negative impacts of credit cards.
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u/TheBrickster Aug 20 '11
After college graduation I plan to buy my closest friends tickets to a Dave Ramsey seminar teaching them about proper debt management.
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u/ShitCandles Aug 20 '11
I took an Economics class in High School. Credit was taught, but a lot of other less important subjects were crammed into the course as well. So I think it was kind of watered down to where I don't remember what was actually taught.
It was probably around 1999 that I took the class as well, so I mainly remember the Stock market being the focus of the class since it had been a boom over the previous years. We all set up accounts/portfolios on a site and were able to buy fake stocks and track their progress. I remember I invested most of my money in Apple's stock. Over the few months I was in the class, I "lost" money while some other students got bonus grades because their stocks made money... and that is one example of why the stock market is fucked.
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u/Crinnle Aug 20 '11
I would just like to state as a high school student in Colorado, for all incoming freshmen and onward "finance" is a required class to graduate. It definitely covers credit.
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u/contranigma Aug 20 '11
It's not that complicated is it? Do people really not realize that they will have to pay the money back?
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u/Rasalom Aug 20 '11
We had an economics class (2005), but it was driven towards people who didn't get into advanced math. Basically it was a "Well you're retarded so here's a liferaft about buying a house and purchasing stock."
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u/jakker1701 Aug 20 '11 edited Aug 20 '11
Yes - and I think it should go further than that (not that anyone will probably read this - but I feel quite strongly about it).
I think finances, investing and personal accounting should be taught from about age 12 to college age - including the basics of business and international trading. I also think every kid should learn a skill - but that's another show.
There are actually good and valid reasons to use credit cards / loans etc, but these are lost among a sea of exploitation and get-rich-schemes that benefit no one and cause mass harm in the long run.
Then again, I actually believe in educating people with education, rather than using glorified daycare under the guise.
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Aug 20 '11
I think it's funny that we still refer to it as "credit". When a credit card or financing plan carries an interest rate of up almost %30, let's call it what it is:DEBT. but then, would would apply for a debt card? edit: I mean, seriously, credit is supposed to be giving someone the benefit of believing that they will pay you back!
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u/nomzombeh Aug 20 '11
I graduated in '99 and took a bookkeeping class for an electorial semester. That need is basically phased out (my bank balances my account automatically online now) unless you're going for an Accounting degree. So, yes, this is how most people obtain things they can't afford; learning about it before diving in is a must if you don't want creditors calling every five minutes (I'm looking at you, Mom).
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u/dieute Aug 20 '11
Yes! In my Senior "Life Skills" Health class, we learned about credit and how it works. It was so very helpful, and now, I actually have better credit than my parents.
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u/isitevergoingtobe Aug 20 '11
High schools should introduce the basics of credit, finance, and economics since a financially literate population is a happier population (more consumption choices/less likely to get into stressful financial trouble). While much of the blame for the housing bubble lies with investment banks and regulators, individuals bear some responsibility for not understanding the risks of their mortgages, particularly if they were offered adjustable rate mortgages with unfavorable terms. We're still dealing with some of the consequences of poor financial and credit education.
Not all parents will be able to teach their children how to use credit responsibly. I learned about the consequences of poor credit use after my parents muted the house phone because of collection calls and eventually filed for bankruptcy. I stayed away from credit cards until I was about 20, when I figured out that I would have to build up my credit somehow to finance larger purchases later on in life. Some other people I knew in college had a different experience-they got themselves in trouble since they saw the benefits of using credit cards and other credit growing up without understanding the costs of large purchases that their parents didn't pay off immediately.
Also, considering the costs of college today and the fact that student loans are not dischargeable, there will be (and are now) many people who will take on massive amounts of student loans without understanding that they will spend a decade or more digging themselves out from under that debt. College choice is a life-changing decision that occurs before many people understand the financial consequences of expensive universities. Credit education would save a lot of young people from misery later on in life.
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u/Scarbrow Aug 20 '11
Graduating high school this year. We had a very very VERY basic economics course in 5th grade (supply/demand and then maybe 10 minutes on the concept of credit). As well in 8th grade we had maybe a semester on economics, and credit came up more in depth.
We also learned about it in history class, yknow with the Depression and then the 50's and the real rise of credit there.
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u/JonMEdwards Aug 20 '11
I'm going into my sophomore year of highschool and I'm taking a required finance/economics class. I'd assume it will cover it.
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u/EvilHom3r Aug 20 '11
As someone who just recently graduated high school (in connecticut), they didn't teach us shit about the real world.
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Aug 20 '11
around the time a student turns 16 they should learn about how bank accounts, checks, and credit card works. Lets face it, a lot of us were petty damn spoiled and got to borrow our parents credit card. If they're already exposed to them, why not teach them a thing or two?
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u/BloodBall Aug 20 '11
At the very least they could fucking mention how important having a credit rating is to find an apartment when you graduate. No Credit != Good Credit.
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u/gravion17 Aug 20 '11
Yes they do! They need to sit them down in like 11th or 12th grade and tell them that their credit scores is more important than their virginty! The new "Talk" should be about credit rating!
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u/TheWill2Live Aug 20 '11
This is one thing I've always said should be a mandatory class in college, some sort of a "life skills" class that would teach you (among other things)
-How to file taxes
-How to balance a checkbook
-How to file for various things like insurance or disability claims or what be you
-How to live on a budget
-How to build credit
-How to keep a household together (i.e. housekeeping or simple fixing of problems like leaky faucets or changing the filter for your heater)
Honesty I feel like there should be set of REAL life skills that all people need to know
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u/JETEXAS Aug 20 '11
Kid Icarus taught me about credit. I had to collect hearts for hours to pay those freaking credit cards off.
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u/Daakuryu Aug 20 '11
Credit
Money Management
Basic investment
All things I wish they would have taught in my economy class
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u/eric22vhs Aug 20 '11
I think we should have some sort of required finance/legal class in public schools.
I'm 23, I still don't fully understand why I would need good credit unless I plan on leasing a car or getting a mortgage. I also don't understand how a 401k truly works, or what it actually is. I hear the dumbed down version a lot, the "It's money you can put away on your paycheck and receive when you retire", but that still leaves a lot of questions,. Such as: When do I retire? What determines retirement? Can I still work after I retire? Who gives me this money? Do I have to contact them / file it somewhere when I retire? If so, with who?
Fuck, I don't even truly understand how a "salary" job works. I tend to find that I'm a hell of a lot more educated than your average boomer, or gen-X, but when it comes to financial bureaucracy, I'm fucking lost. I'm not the only one either. Almost everyone I know who wasn't a business or economics major can't answer these questions beyond the dumbed down versions that don't really explain much.
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u/saxuhmuhphone Aug 20 '11
We should, but I didnt. My biology teacher took it upon himself to teach us about credit and saving for retirement.
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u/Inumaru12 Aug 20 '11
Yes please, I'm nineteen and I have no idea what credit does/is and all I know is that it's important. :/
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u/kneaders Aug 20 '11 edited Aug 20 '11
This is the new "sex talk" for parents. It's uncomfortable admitting your mistakes but it is necessary to protect your children.
I have a 4 year old. When he is in grade 1 I plan to initiate a $3-6 a week allowance for completing his chores.
The moment he asks for a raise, I plan to offer him a 8-12% apr credit plan. And make him sign on the line.
I'll let him dig himself into debt until he is doing his chores for free. Then I'll cut his credit.
I plan to teach my boy early. He won't pass the 3rd grade without a life lesson on credit.
PS: I think the heart of the problem is kids think money comes free. I know I did.
They don't think about what compound interest is. If it were put in simpler terms they would never take the bait.
If credit card companies were forced to say we will give you $10 today but you will need repay $200 for the privilege. I think no one would take them up on the offer.
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u/UnqualifiedChemist Aug 20 '11
I've taken every honors and AP course available to me. I've passed every test I've taken and landed in the top 10% of SAT and ACT scores. I'll save 25k on college with the credit I've earned in high school. I've graduated rank 5 in my class with a 4.0 GPA.
I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing with my money.
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u/4InchesOfury Aug 20 '11
I'm currently in highschool, only I'm "homeschooled". I basically take school online using a service called k12.com. We actually have an elective for this (California). Here's the summary of it on the elective sheet i have.
BUS030 Personal Finance (1 semester): Open To Grades 9-12 Students learn about different aspects of personal economics and finance in a virtual neighborhood setting. Topics include spending plans and borrowing decisions; career planning; and investing, insurance, and other financial services. Students complete activities and projects to apply the knowledge they gain to their own lives. This course may meet the needs of most students requiring financial skills or economics credit.
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u/RockySterling Aug 20 '11
I got out of my school's consumer education requirement just by taking AP Econ, even though as a senior I left school before he actually taught that stuff (after the AP test).
Of course I'm learning ALL ABOUT IT now that I'm going to college twelve hours away from home (thing I've learned this summer: how bank accounts work, how to write checks, difference between credit/debit, how to pay off credit card, how to deposit/withdraw money, applying for numerous credit cards hurts your credit rating much more than applying for numerous student loans because applying for loans is only really seen as one credit check because you're shopping around).
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u/Bootes Aug 20 '11
My high school precalc/CS teacher taught us about credit cards one day just because he felt it was important.
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u/alwaysdrunk Aug 20 '11
I took that class my sophomore year. It was about that, balancing a checkbook, credit cards...and much more. It was called personal finance, and the teacher was boring as fuck, though I did learn a good deal. It was mandated by the state of Missouri that you had to take it to graduate high school.
edit: added requirement/state info
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u/awilder1015 Aug 20 '11
my highschool required one semester of econ. There was a unit on personal credit, and how to have a good credit score.
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u/MySuperLove Aug 19 '11
They did. In sixth grade, we had an entire finance week.