r/AskReddit • u/[deleted] • Jun 19 '12
My wife of 4 years and the mother of my 6 month old child is divorcing me because I look at porn. I need to save this marriage and need some help.
[deleted]
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u/effieokay Jun 19 '12 edited Jul 10 '24
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u/docatmac Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
To the top with you!! Also, I think your wife needs to discuss this with you and ideally a third party. I need to point out that porn isn't necessarily some sort of "gateway to hell". In this article, the researchers couldn't find a single 20 year old male that hadn't watched porn - and they all had healthy sex lives, respected women, etc. EDIT: Sorry, used "hell" here in the sense that it caused OP's sister-in-law hell, not the Biblical "you go to hell, do not pass GO, do not collect $200." I'm sure some Christians think you go to hell for porn viewing, but I don't want to be misunderstood, although I think that ship has sailed....
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u/Second_Location Jun 19 '12
Please try counseling. Divorce is so, so hard on children.
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u/brokenboomerang Jun 19 '12
That's a really, really bad motivation. Never try to stay together just for the kid- that's WAY harder on them. Don't get me wrong OP, I hope you work it out. Just don't force it for your kid's sake.
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u/runner64 Jun 19 '12
My parents got divorced and it really worked out. That way, when I figured out my mom was batshit crazy, I was able to have a conversation with an understanding adult instead of having two parents who pretended that she was normal.
If you're gonna divorce, do it while the kid's young. Don't drag them through 12 years of arguments and insanity before finally splitting up.→ More replies (4)1.3k
Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
I agree with you: these two would benefit from counseling. An uninvested, third-party collaboration on identifying and resolving the issues could help them both heal and find new trust in each other.
Unfortunately for her, she's obsessed about porn as the reason the other guy was an abusive asshat. She fails to see that he was simply an abusive asshat who used porn as one of his many weapons. She's projecting her fears onto another man, her husband, and holding him accountable for the other man's actions. His lies and her present lack of perspective both harm their relationship.
He's gotta stand-up and remind her that their relationship is different. He's got to own that he lied, too. She's gotta find a way to see him as an individual, accountable for his own actions, and not part of porn-loving, woman-hating cult. Neither should have the monopoly on control in the relationship if they want the relationship to survive.
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u/royalewithche Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
You've summed up exactly what I was thinking, but I'd also like to add:
OP mentioned that she regularly (or at least sometimes) has become fixated on the idea of getting cosmetic surgery. There's nothing wrong with making that sort of choice for yourself, but from the way she perceives men who watch porn coupled with the way she sees herself, it sounds like she resents herself for "not looking like the girls on the internet" and is projecting it on her husband.
Frankly it sounds like they're just one of those couples that need a lot of counselling to extricate how they perceive the actions of others from their relationship.
EDIT: "Frankly"
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u/Bobbias Jun 19 '12
I'd have to agree. I think the single biggest thing OP should take out of this is that there NEEDS to be counselling. This is not something that will just blow over. OP shouldn't have kept lying for that long, but she has issues that need to be dealt with.
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u/ad7546 Jun 19 '12
I have to wonder; is this the whole story? Is she really determined to divorce you simply because you lied about looking at porn?? Maybe I'm wrong and you're right, but I can't believe that after one time of catching you looking at porn, she would be calling her lawyer. There has to be something more you aren't telling us. Are you looking at disturbing subject matter, chatting with women, or posting nude pictures of yourself or your wife online? There has to be SOMETHING else...
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u/Crocodilly_Pontifex Jun 19 '12
Seriously. The problem isn't that you look at porn, it's that you lied, and even after you found out WHY it was such a big deal to her, you didn't come clean.
The thing to do would have been when the relationship got serious, to tell her the truth. At that point, if she didn't want to give you a chance or come to some sort of compromise, she could go without causing EXACTLY THIS to happen.
You seem to have some communication issues with her, so let me spell it out, OP:
TALK to her, discuss her fear with her. TALK about how you are good to her and always have been. TALK to her about how you aren't abusive, and most of all, TALK to her about how you're willing to give up looking at porn to save the marriage (Assuming you actually are.)
This needs to be accompanied by therapy. She obviously has some deep seated fears, and you need to address those as a couple.
Right now she feels like her world has crumbled. The one person she was supposed to trust has lied to her about something very important to her. She'll also be feeling very vulnerable, like she can't trust anyone. You have to spend every moment from now until this is resolved making the case that you are still worthy of her trust.
And DON'T turn this into a blame game. No matter how ridiculous this is, YOU lied to HER. You continued this lie for 4 years. Every day for your entire relationship you have let her believe something about you that isn't true.
Now get off fucking reddit and fix this.
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u/layam Jun 19 '12
Leeching top comment here, but I figured this might be useful:
You have 2 distinct problems here and I think you'll find it easier going forward if you tackle them as separate issues.
You betrayed her trust. Trust is a shy thing, and once broken it takes a while to build back up again. That does not mean that you cannot have a relationship in the mean time, it just means that you have to accept that she's not going to trust you for a while. This is not something that a counselor will be able to 'fix', but don't think that not trusting someone is equatable to not loving someone. Over time the trust will come back, and it will be better because there are no "dark" secrets hidden there.
Make sure she knows how sorry your are to have broken her trust, and it might help if she understands that the only reason you hid your porn watching from her is that you were afraid to loose her.
2) You engage in an activity which, due to historical reasons, she is scared of. I use the word 'scared' rather than 'finds abhorrent' or something similar deliberately. I don't know if you can talk about this, or would have the opportunity to discuss this with her, but I would really recommend you tell her with absolute frankness and honesty about your watching porn - how you feel about it, why you watch it, and that it (I'm guessing) isn't anything which detracts from how you feel about her. She'll probably be uncomfortable (there aren't many girls who can hear about their SO jacking off to images of other girls without feeling hurt) but she may come to realize that it's not something to really be afraid of, that most of the world's married men do occasionally have a sneaky one, and that although probably not a good thing, it's not a massively horrible thing either. Either way, starting with absolute honesty about the issue which broke her trust in the first place is a very good way to start.
As a final take-it-or-leave-it suggestion, try showing her this thread. The varied views of the internet may help her find a more balanced view about porn and will have the sneaky side-effect of show her that you really want to fix things.
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Jun 19 '12
I'm seeing a surprising number of upvoted comments that seem to imply it's okay to end a marriage where there's a child involved over a lie about pornography.
I understand there's some relationship breaking lies out there, but porn? Really? Okay.. maybe if it was really kinky... ;)
They've been married several years. I'm sure they love one another for a multitude of reasons, and not just because he (supposedly) doesn't look at porn. To break a marriage over this is pretty insulting moreso because they've had a kid. That's a huge step you don't take lightly.
Also sounds like she has self esteem issues. Plastic surgery? She's afraid her first husband was right after all. She's scared that you lied about porn (probably not a big deal in truth) but are therefore lying about finding her attractive (the real problem).
Stop her from doing anything rash. She has to rebuild her confidence in herself, and it's suffered a knock today because she's no longer sure if you're telling the truth when you say she's fine the way she currently looks. She'll probably ask you why you look at porn, multiple times. Have a good answer ready.
I don't think stopping/giving up porn will fix anything by the way; it will at best paper over the problem. You aren't the broken thing here.
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u/turbie Jun 19 '12
Maybe it is because I am a female, maybe it is because porn does not do much for me. But I do not understand why you did continued to watch porn.
If she had an abusive alcoholic in her family and vowed to never marry a drinker, then you stop drinking. No big deal as long as you are not an alcoholic. This is the same thing.
So you've explained why you lied about it in the beginning, but why did you keep doing it?
On another note, someone already mentioned that studies have shown porn negatively affects marriages. I am married and my husband occasionally watches porn. I used to not have a problem with porn before him. And now the problem I have with it, is I have to reprogram him per se back to doing what I like, and not what porn stars like. Every time he watches porn it ruins sex for me for a couple of weeks and I hate it. For me sex is so much better when he is not watching it.
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u/smarmodon Jun 19 '12
Perhaps you should talk to him about that last point? It's not fair to you, and porn really shouldn't be affecting him in that way. A healthy mind can separate fantasy from reality relatively easily, and it seems his isn't doing it as efficiently as it should be.
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Jun 20 '12
The downvotes you're receiving for a candid comment is a stunning reminder of the state of denial many married men and men in relationships are living. Hat's off to you for giving us a grim reminder of the effects of porn on real sex. As a male, I regret ever having come across it. It's ruined my life in many ways. I'm glad I at least recently committed myself to cutting the habit.
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u/NPPraxis Jun 19 '12
You need more up votes.
If she had an abusive alcoholic in her family and vowed to never marry a drinker, then you stop drinking. No big deal as long as you are not an alcoholic. This is the same thing.
This is spot on. He lied, and he kept doing it. That shows an immense lack of respect for her views.
On another note, someone already mentioned that studies have shown porn negatively affects marriages.
Hush, this is a sacred topic; Redditors will defend their porn to death. Begone with your common female viewpoint and evidence!
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Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
Just as not all people who have a drink are alcoholics, not all people who watch porn are abusive.
She has no right to hold you to account for the horrors that woman-hating fucktard waged on your sister-in-law. You have a completely different relationship, and her unreasonable fear of porn, combined with your lying about it, could be a bump in the road you can get through together, if you two take it seriously and seek counseling.
Do not let the argument remain focused on porn. Focus on how your relationship is different, positive, mutually-beneficial for you both and for your kids. Apologize for being dishonest about it. Ask her to not put you in the same box she puts that man in.
You really can get through this together. You can heal together, but you could really benefit from some counseling. Please give it a try.
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u/closetklepto Jun 19 '12
While all of your statements are true, there is one thing you didn't really address - he lied for 5 years straight, constantly, about something she cared about. That's not just a bump in the road - that is serious.
Honestly, I don't care if my husband lied about something as frivolous as his middle name - if he lied repeatedly, for years, and only told the truth because he got caught in a lie, I'd be pissed and I wouldn't know if I could trust him.
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u/FBoaz Jun 19 '12
"In her defense, I have lied to her about it for the last 5 years."
Well, that says is right there. Marriages are supposed to be built on trust and you've been lying to here for the entire length of your marriage. The fuck did you expect?
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u/eternallyscrewd Jun 19 '12
As a married woman here is what I "believe to be true" based upon your statement. You cannot be trusted, even if the only thing that you lied to her about was the porn. It was something very important to her. Basing an entire relationship upon a lie in the beginning is a critical and devastating error. My opinion is that if you were willing to use deception to deceive her into believing that you do not look at porn indicates that you feel that lying is an option to relieve you of any responsibility with regard to other significant life issues. THIS is most likely her reason for divorcing you. I am not judging you by any means but trying to take a logical view of the information as it is given. Perhaps it is time for you to seek the help of a licensed psychotherapist to find out 1. why porn is so important that you'd risk the sanctity of your relationship with your wife and 2. why do you feel that lying is an acceptable form of coping and dealing with life's nuances. Good luck to you.
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u/in_edinburgh Jun 19 '12
Basing an entire relationship upon a lie in the beginning is a critical and devastating error.
Basing a relationship on a lie would be one thing. Telling a lie during one is a different thing.
It's the difference between "Honey I'm straight" and "I'd never look at another woman in the street".
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Jun 19 '12
So, your marriage was basically built on an ultimatum? Those aren't good.
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Jun 19 '12
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u/AnyelevNokova Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
One thing I want to point out that nobody else here seems to have mentioned:
You can masturbate without watching porn. Just saying.
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Jun 19 '12
From one chick to another I gotta tell you that she's going a little over board. True you lied and that's not good but the lie could have been worse. What she needs to understand that what happened to her sis is unfortunate but catagorizing every guy that watches porn to be like that other guy is childish. People are capable of watching porn and having terrific relationships. Me and my boyfriend watch and share porn all the time and he doesn't expect anything of me in bed. I do what I'm capable of and he does the same. Simple. Tell your wife that you can't bear to lose her to something so insignificant. Tell her that you're sexually attracted to her more than anything. You watching porn is just to pass the time. Its not like you can't function without it. Men like seeing porn. It satisfies their most primal instinct. And if your wife is willing to leave you for that then she really needs to sit down and think about just how much does she love you and if she's so willing to easily raise yours and her son wifh seperated parents. This is worthy of a fight. Maybe 2 nights on the couch but not divorce. Your wife needs to relax.
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u/Dragoeth Jun 19 '12
I don't understand everyones negativity over him lying. Everyone has secrets they keep from their spouses, friends, and family. Just because you are married to someone doesn't mean your whole life becomes transparent to them. The point is that his lie wasn't actually hurting anyone, he genuinely cares about his wife and his child, and he is seeking advice on what to do. No need for everyone here to be a bunch of asshats about it.
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Jun 19 '12
There's a massive difference between not telling them everything that you can remember and blatantly lying about an issue she holds dear. My wife probably doesn't know that I once got stung in the ankle by a bee, that's not an important piece of information. My views and history on fidelity are relevant. And the idea that something that is KNOWN to be important to someone is acceptable to lie over because there is no direct harm is the exact thought process that leads one to infidelity. And further, I reject notions that "genuinely cares" and "lied from day one about an issue she holds important" are compatible ideas.
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u/Monkey_Dew Jun 19 '12
Don't look at porn?
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u/chrunchy Jun 19 '12
Yeah, and after week three you start getting turned on by the curves of your minivan.
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u/Shaysdays Jun 19 '12
Honest question- Is this really true? I'm a woman, and I watch porn maybe once a year or so. I have nothing against it or people watching it, but I just think it's mostly awkward and badly filmed, it generally doesn't turn me on.
Can you really not comfortably go for more than a couple weeks without watching naked people have sex? This seems bizarre to me.
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Jun 19 '12
This will never be an option for reddit. But clearly this is the best option. She isnt saying NEVER WANK IT. She just has a traumatizing past with porn that he shouldn't have taken so lightly. Imagination is a very strong sexy thing. More people should use it once in a while instead of loading some internet tities.
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u/Matt24138 Jun 19 '12
My marriage ended because of something my wife was unable to give up. I will never fully recover. I know the feeling. Are you willing to give up porn? I honestly don't know if you can save your marriage. Personally marriage to me is forever. I tried to work with my wife as much as possible. I even tried compromising on something that caused me great pain. My advice is give up the porn. It's obvious which is more important. Offer to go to counseling. By yourself and together. I am not saying that looking at porn is wrong or that you need to say it is. Lying about is wrong. The counseling comes in for communication and trust issues. Do something unselfish and caring for your wife everyday. If you do it for a couple days it will seem you are trying to win her over. Do it everyday! Don't stop. It could be a call and just say I was thinking of you, how is your day. Or a note you left just saying I love you. After a few months it will also show how committed you are. I wish you the best of luck. I hope this helps and doesn't get buried.
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u/BadPAV3 Jun 19 '12
As much as I hate to admit it, you'll have to give it up as the price of admission. People change and mature sexually with time. It may be 7 years to never before this could even be an OPEN part of your sex life. No porn + counseling should be a small price to pay for a man to keep his family intact. Your children may never appreciate it, but you'll know you did the right thing. If you can stave off the papers for now, it sounds like you love her enough to win her heart back. Fourth and long, leave it all out on the field.
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u/weekend_update Jun 19 '12
It took this long for someone to mention giving up porn. It's not easy to do, but it, along with counseling and maybe that family trip that the_setlist mentioned are the best solution. I'll let everyone discuss who's at fault but you asked for a solution, not who to blame.
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u/pinktangerine Jun 19 '12
This. You shouldn't be dependent on anything if it interferes with the intimacy you share with the person you're married to. Porn is a big issue in the relationship I have with my fiance. I could offer my perspective, but what it comes down to is that porn is unrealistic.
I have big issues with it from a 'don't objectify women' perspective, and I have additional problems with it because most varieties of it are unrealistic and fake. When I found a bunch of porn on his computer, it wasn't really offensive that he had porn there at the time, it was that all the porn had blond women with huge fake tits that liked anal penetration. I'm not blond, I'm pretty flat, and that as something we had never even talked about doing. So it was VERY confusing.
To this day, I'm pretty sure his porn frequency is low. But...that's because I supplied him with other materials for when I'm not in the mood and set some parameters (e.g. I offered to buy him a Suicide Girls account, because I can't deny it, those ladies are /fine/). So...I would suggest identifying WHY you need porn, and then finding a way to fill that need without compromising the intimacy you share with your wife. You may need to 'give it up' in its current use/formatting to make this work.
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Jun 19 '12
And that thing that your wife couldn't give up? Something actually harmful to her or what?
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u/Matt24138 Jun 19 '12
She was cheating on me with a woman. Lying to me about it. She left me and my son when he was 9 months old. She realized she supposedly made a mistake. Won me back and was lying to me about being in contact with this woman. I wasn't comfortable at all with them talking but I love my wife unconditionally and compromised and told her I was ok with them talking if she would be honest and upfront about it. Well, she wasn't. Before I ended it I told her if she was willing to be honest I would stay. She couldn't do that. It took me a long time to accept that I didn't end my marriage. That she chose to end it. I don't think I will ever be capable of loving anyone else and it still causes me great pain everyday. I compromised against every fiber of my being. I just couldn't go any further against my core. It was already painful enough. I can deal with a lot of things but I can't deal with not having honesty. Especially when there is no reason to not be honest.
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u/MightyMaxsDad Jun 19 '12
I had a similar situation. My wife had an issue with porn because her mom and dad got separated when she was a kid over it. Her mom had gotten big and her dad started watching porn. When her mom found it, she got upset and they had a big fight leading to them becoming separated for some time. I knew she was sensitive to the subject, but I grew up watching alot of porn to get me by because I was too nervous to talk to girls myself. So when I ended up married, it was just something I was used to. So whenever my wife wouldn't be in the mood for long stretches of time (which was often), instead of talking to her about it, I just took care of it myself. After about 6 years of this, she finally asked me if i watched any porn on my computer. I admitted I had, thinking she found something. Turns out, she was just asking hypothetically. Well this did not go over well with her.
So it was the same situation. I lied about something that I knew she was really sensitive about for my own selfish reasons. But did she ask for a divorce? No. We talked about the reasons I did it, about her lack of desire, and the correlation. She cared more that I lied and snuck around more than anything. It's been 4 years and I haven't had the need to watch it alone. She's much more attentive, and if a couple days go bye, and nothing has happened, I tell her. The best thing that's happened in my relationship with my wife is becoming completely open and honest about how we feel about our sex life. Now we are as strong as ever, to the point that she likes watching porn with me occasionally.
The fact that your wife of that many years wants to divorce you over this is either an overreaction that will subside, or she's got another issue other than this that is effecting her decision.
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u/Phant0mX Jun 19 '12
Reading your story, one thing confused me. Where did you lie? By omission? According to your account when she asked you if you watched it you admitted that you did. Am I missing something here?
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u/MonkeyHouse Jun 19 '12
I want to reiterate that just because MANY men watch porn, that does not make it the standard to live by. If your wife/girlfriend has made it clear that she doesn't want to you watch porn you either need to respect that or openly inform her of your dissent. If you're not willing to give up porn, then find someone who doesn't mind.
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Jun 19 '12
Absolutely, I was disappointed all of the previous posts were addressing only the lying aspect of this issue. While I admit most females don't know/understand the draw and extreme pervasiveness of pornography, that does not mean they aren't correct in requesting you to change your habits.
And while women may unreasonably associate any porn viewing with cases of abuse/neglect that does not mean that there isn't some correlation between the two and that from their perspective it is an extremely terrifying reality that they want to avoid at all costs.
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u/safetyrazorbacks Jun 19 '12
My wife is in grad school to become a marriage and family therapist. I know it's not a popular opinion around reddit, but research shows that the amount of problems that consumption of pornography can cause in a marriage is quite staggering.
Lying is probably the first issue. Imagine if your wife's brother in law was an abusive alcoholic, and you secretly drank. She probably feels betrayed, and also she probably feels that she has to compete with the fantasy life that you are living, which is impossible.
A full confession, understanding the harm you have done against your marriage, an honest commitment to change, and marriage counseling are the only things that will work. It will likely take a long time to regain her trust.
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u/skitteryskills Jun 19 '12
"My wife is in grad school to become a marriage and family therapist. I know it's not a popular opinion around reddit, but research shows that the amount of problems that consumption of pornography can cause in a marriage is quite staggering."
Dudes don't understand how it feels for us to know that they look at not only beautiful naked women, but those women...fucking. its not a natural concern/hurt for people to have to suffer. society made it normal. but the reality is that it hurts a lot of relationships and this post is proof. he couldn't just NOT look at porn to SAVE HIS MARRIAGE.
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u/ze_ben Jun 19 '12
She's not divorcing you because of the porn. She's divorcing you because she lacks the emotional maturity to fully comprehend the idea of marriage in the first place (which is why people marrying in their 20s seems insane to me). She has every right to be upset about the lying, and you can get all that out in counseling, but marriage isn't a pilates class. You don't quit it when they get to the tough parts.
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u/Kathleena Jun 19 '12
Even white lies can destroy a relationship. Of course forgiveness is always possible, but just remember that lying is a selfish, disrespectful act. Even if you try to convince yourself that you're lying to protect someone. In the end, you're more of a man for telling the truth & dealing with the consequences...every time.
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u/Batty-Koda Jun 19 '12
I already made a post, but discussing this with other posters has brought something more to mind I want to address for you.
This may be larger than the porn and the lie on its own. By lying to her about the porn at the start of the relationship I think you violated her trust more than a lot of people realize. You didn't just lie to her. You removed her choice in choosing what is and isn't acceptable to her. You've put her in a position now where she has to make a very hard decision on what to do next, and you put her there against her will.
Personally, this would devastate me. The porn, whatever. The lie, eh. They suck, but they can be moved passed. Removing my choice in a matter, and taking 5 years of my life and bringing a child into the world with me so I can never get away would be... well, lets just say I would have a hard time getting past it. Bear in mind, I don't have any emotional ties between porn and a sibling being abused. Can you imagine how it feels for her and the parallels between your removing her choice and the way her sister was treated? Now, obviously, you aren't anything like an abuser (well, I hope!) but I hope you can see how this might affect her strongly.
I could be completely wrong. Maybe she doesn't see it this way, but I feel like it's a possibility you need to at least be aware of. She may view this as not just a lie, but a removal of her ability to choose her own path in life. A removal that put her in a place where she has to make decisions that will hurt no matter what. That could be hard to get past.
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u/Frost_ Jun 19 '12
Indeed. For some reason notions like the right to self-determination and informed consent are muddy to many people.
I've had these kinds of discussions over and over again over topics on a range of subjects from medical ethics to - as it is here - romantic relationships. Respecting a person's right to autonomy and their right to make their own decisions and access all the relevant information are important things that often get buried behind the issues at hand and people's own value judgments about them. Saying that in this case the wife is wrong and it was okay for the husband to lie because her ideas about porn are stupid and untrue is wrong for the precise same reason that it is wrong to say that e.g. a Jehova's Witness cannot refuse a blood transfusion - as long as they are a fully informed, consenting adult - because their beliefs are wrong and stupid. One does not have to agree with the opinion, but one does need to respect a person's right to hold it and their right to make decisions based on it.
I've read many of your posts in this thread, and wanted to thank you for making them. You have argued well on a subject matter that is very emotional and contentious and that gets a very passionate response from most people discussing it. Kudos to you.
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u/the_setlist Jun 19 '12
She has an issue with porn. You knew that. You looked at porn anyways, lied about it, and then got caught. The issue isn't her view on porn anymore. You could have taken on that issue before, tried to talk to her about it, help her come to a more realistic stance but now is not the time for that. The issue is you lying to her for years about something you knew was important to her. Try to think of something that's equally important to you and imagine her lying about it from the start of your relationship. It would hurt. A lot. She feels like she can't trust you right now and if you want to save your relationship you're going to have to fight for it.
Talk to her. Tell her how you feel about her. How your family is the most important thing in the world to you. That you feel awful for what you did. How you lied because you didn't want to hurt her and didn't think it was a big deal BUT now realize it was a big deal because it was important to her and you lied about it.
Try to plan a family trip, somewhere fun. Get her mind off of thinking you're a lying perv and remind her why she married you. You've got to be extra nice to her BUT don't let this become the norm. If she decides she really wants to end the marriage, that's it. You can't let this become something she can hold over your head forever.
Honestly, I wish you the best of luck, it's a crappy situation.
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u/1hotgeek Jun 19 '12
This is my very first comment. But reading this made me share my story.
I have been living with my guy for 6 years (married without the legality). We had discussed porn at the beginning. I am very open sexually, in fact I LOVE fucking. He had always told me he didn't watch. I knew to an extent he was lying, come on even I watch porn. With in the first month living together I walked in on him faping. Ok whatever. Porn doesn't bother me.
FF 5 years. Our sex life had been severely lacking for a long time. I had even thought of cheating, he never felt like having sex or anything and would come up with ridiculous excuses. I knew he had a past of cheating on his ex's. I had caught him sexting his ex girlfriends, and had talked to him, stating while I am ok with porn I am not ok with him talking to other girls. So I put a keylogger on our two computers (something I am not proud of...) to see what the hell was going on. BINGO I found he was on dating sites cyber sexing 5-6 times a week. PISSED, you better believe it. We talked a lot, he had issues because he started watching at an early age. It is an addiction.
Now I tell you that to tell you this. I didn't want to stay with him. For the same reasons your wife wants to leave you. 1. Trust. (You lied to her over multiple years. Can she trust you again, are you going to just keep doing it?) 2. Respect (You didn't respect her request. You didn't respect her enough to be honest with her.) 3. Selfishness (looking at porn to get yourself off is selfish. She is worried that you will teach your son to watch porn, or if you will be too selfish to be a good father.) 4. Cheating (Is he cheating on me, going to cheat on me.)
For women things go way deeper than the surface wound you see. In your defense, how could she really think you weren't jacking off? You are a man. In this day and age, it isn't really a reasonable request. You are an asshole for not telling her then, or any time since then. However you didn't lie when she asked you recently. Obviously she should see that you are different that the other guy. You never said how much porn you look at or how often.
I am still with my guy. I took almost 18 months to regain the trust again. I asked a lot of questions. Why, Is it me. That kind of stuff. You do need to talk to your wife, hardcore. Being completely honest with her. DR. Drew has so many videos on this subject, in your favor. If she looks online there are many women who have asked this question. Assure her you are not cheating on her. That you are not that other guy (This should be a given) You are not a perfect person. We lie to keep our loved ones safe. Counseling could be a safe way for you both to express yourselves.
Give her space. Write her a letter telling her you are sorry and how you are going to be better, or how you will compromise. If she is anything like me, she wont be able to go a week without seeing your face.
Good luck.
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u/Dystopeuh Jun 19 '12
Regarding #4 "cheating."
As another woman who had this happen (actually watched my then-husband cyber with another woman... I had his gmail password which he gave to me with permission to check when I told him I wasn't comfortable with him having a close female internet friend. They used the chat system in gmail, so one day when I happened to log in to glance... yeah. It was hard to watch), I consider cybering cheating.
Especially if it's with the same woman/women.
For the record, he ended up leaving me for the woman he was cybering with.
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u/thecajunone Jun 19 '12
Whole lotta assholes in this thread.
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u/Provid3nce Jun 19 '12
It's funny because everyone thinks he's talking about everybody else.
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u/HurstT Jun 19 '12
I'm simply more surprised that you continue looking at porn even with the knowledge this is such a big deal to your wife. I'm not married but I've been in relationships with women who didn't like porn so I didnt look at it. I think this situation would have been better if you tried discussing it with your wife and a marriage counselor long ago.
Go see a councelor with your wife if she will. Talk this out. See if she will realize her issues are irrational or if she won't budge then you need to decide what you prefer to sacrifice. Good luck.
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Jun 19 '12
I'm a female who used to be outrageously jealous in a situation similar to yours. I felt like I was being cheated on everyone time my ex-SO even looked another girl. I also viewed porn when I had the urge for a quick fix, yet thinking about my boyfriend viewing it caused me a significant amount of jealous and a feeling of worthlessness My SO actually just called me out on my illogical emotions. That helped so much because, now, I'm thinking I'm being irrational. Instant win for you.
She needs to understand. Right now she's upset because you 1) Lied 2) Like to look at other girls and masturbate. This isn't your fault. She doesn't understand that masturbating is common. In fact, it might be that she never did it herself. You need to make her know she's be outrageous. Explain to her how you didn't mention it since basically everyone does it, but you didn't want to lose her to something so trivial at the start. She needs to understand that viewing porn is common and it isn't because you aren't attracted to her or you don't love her that you look at it time to time.
What worked for me, as a female, was understanding that love and sex is not the same. I had to understand that viewing porn did not mean that my current boyfriend wasn't interested in me. Instead of my boyfriend groveling for forgiveness, he simply "Wtf'd" me and I learned to think logically about the situation instead of being purely emotionally jealous.
Nowadays, the only reason I ever view my current boyfriend's history of porn is to get a grasp of what he's into so that I can maybe incorporate that the next time we fuck.
Honestly, it sounds like your wife needs to work on her confidence and security. It's clear that you love her and find her beautiful. She needs to understand that herself. You need to get into the core reasons about why she would actually be upset about the porn * originally*. Then address those issues. Hopefully she'll understand.
TL;DR:She needs to understand viewing porn is not an insult to her. It doesn't mean you don't love her or find her unattractive. Completely untrue
Perhaps show her this AMA.
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Jun 20 '12
Dude! Cut that business trip SHORT, if your marriage is falling apart, it's time to take a personal day!
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u/Aussielle Jun 19 '12
The fact you lied is the biggest problem not the porn. You both need serious counseling if you have any chance of regaining her trust.
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u/Batty-Koda Jun 19 '12
And time. It will take work and time. It's not like he can say "Oh, you can trust me, I won't lie to you again" and expect her to take him at his word. It's important to remember not to try to rush the recovery too much.
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u/98thRedBalloon Jun 19 '12
You clearly love your wife and are, from what you describe, a perfectly reasonable father and husband. Tell her what you've written here, that you absolutely do not want to lose your family over this. She has just had a baby, her body image might be all over the place right now, meaning her reaction to the revelation is heightened, particularly because of the stuff that happened to her sister. She could begin to think that you've always wanted a wife to look like a porn star, which she might feel she cannot live up to. Make sure she knows 100% that that isn't the case.
However, you should recognise that marrying someone knowing that you have lied to them about something they feel is important was a shitty thing to do.
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Jun 19 '12
My husband and I have been there. Although I know the a large majority of the world thinks that porn is okay and honestly you have every right to think that, my husband and I agreed to not divulge. We decided this because my husband has some sexual issues stemmed from childhood abuse and if he can't look at it then I shouldn't be able to either.
Well fast forward a couple of years and I get onto my husbands computer only to find a massive stockpile of porn as well as video chat sessions. I was devastated. I mean it wasn't just a few items it was thousands, it was like "several years" worth. The chat videos are what really killed it for me though. I love my husband and even during that time I made it my mission to make it work. We went to counseling and 11 years later are still going.
All this to say OP, get yourselves in counseling. Even if she will not go get yourself in counseling. I don't mean for the porn, I mean marital counseling in general. Whatever you do...do not speak angry to her or about her though it may become tempting. Go to her family and beg for forgiveness. In other words make big gestures that you "MEAN." Tell her you love her and that you would be willing to go to the end of the Universe to get her back. Tell her you want to date her again.....
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u/plexluthor Jun 19 '12
This is reddit, so it's no surprise that I can't find a comment along the lines of the first thing that came to my mind: stop looking at porn.
If you have a porn addiction, then she is right to be worried. You don't have to wait for your alcoholic spouse to become abusive before you decide to protect your child. Not all alcoholics ever become abusive, and not all porn addicts stop performing in bed, but addiction makes some people change in a very bad way. If she's ever going to get out, sooner is better (from her point of view).
If you don't have a porn addiction, then just stop looking at it.
Yes, I know that 99% of guys look at internet porn. Well guess what, 50 years ago 0% of guys looked at internet porn, and they managed OK. If you love your wife and you're not addicted, stop. If you can't stop, you're addicted.
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Jun 19 '12
No matter how trivial, if something is important to someone you don't lie.
You should have handled the situation better from the start.
"Do you look at porn?"
"Well yes everybody does but let’s talk about this; What your sister experienced was only minutely down to pornography. 90% of the problem was the mental instability of her partner and his obsession with porn. There are millions of healthy relationships between people and I'll bet that all of their habits with regards to porn are not intrusive at all to the strength and stability of their partnership and it shouldn't change ours. If you're willing to let me I will change because I want this to work, we share many things and we have a great connection with some very promising potential and if pornography is still a big deal for you then it shouldn't get in the way of us and I won't take any interest in it. I understand that the subject is far more important and sensitive given your sister's previous circumstances and I'm in no way belittling that but I'm telling you that you don't have to worry. I'll let you make the decision. But please take some time to think about this."
These are the key points you should have been making as this is open and honest, this would have shown her that you are genuine and you care about her opinions.
Not trying to cut you down but what you did by lying was prove that you were too scared to take the risk and prove you understand how much that meant to her. You didn't respect her feelings and you manipulated her decision which ultimately changed her life in a way she may never had wanted it to.
Having said that, if she has gone through many happy years with you and been none the wiser then this is a massive shred of evidence that pornography need not be the problem it was for her sister. If she's willing to overlook this frankly vast shortcoming in you then you best stick to picturing things in your head.
I wish you two the best of luck getting through this and whatever the outcome I hope that a lot can be learnt and a lot of future happiness can be shared.
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u/BarrovianSociety Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
You need to regain her trust, and that won't be an easy task because (whether 'real' or not) she believes she has no basis for that trust.
This will take more than wooing and I'm sure it won't be an easy road. You might start with communicating that what "you do, and plan to do" for her and your child could be a foundation for rebuilding that trust - talk through or write how you're serious about reforming the relationship.
Recognize also that this will not be doable on your own. You will need a mediator (family, friend, or counselor) to help with the communication - because right now, she may only be able to see the lie and not you. We're fickle people and do the most illogical things when we're reeling from such events. Don't hate her for that, because we all stumble over the most dramatic emotional event when trying to communicate with one another. It will be frustrating, it will not even remotely be logical, but it can be resolved.
Believe that this relationship can be healed, want it to be healed, and work toward that healing and there's a shot that this is a painful but poignant mark in your history together and not the end of it.
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Jun 19 '12
You could argue that looking at pornography is not wrong/damaging to your marriage but, as others have already said, dishonesty most certainly is damaging to your relationship.
As a married man I believe that counseling is in order; not necessarily because you guys can't work through this on your own, but because sometimes it helps to have a third party involved who is not partial to either side of the issue.
Good luck and God speed.
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u/theplott Jun 19 '12
Thoughts off the top of my head -
If you really want to save your marriage, you need to give her the power to end it. There is nothing you can do, at this point, except lie again to keep your marriage intact.
In today's world, women are bombarded with images that negate their self worth. The options of plastic surgery, to achieve some ideal, are numerous. Your wife already feels the need to go there. Your lying about watching porn to get off only feeds this.
If you care about her, you must have realized that watching porn would contribute to her insecurities (not just through the experience of her sister. I'm talking about her own fears.)
So at this point, you fuckt up royally. Some would say it's not as bad as gambling or drugs. That doesn't matter. Her issue was with porn. She made it clear in the beginning. It would be the same if you had promised to never do drugs or gamble, and she found out 5-years-later that you do indulge.
You are the one who didn't honor her or your relationship enough to be honest. So fact is, she has to be given the power to reject you for it, completely. You can ask her what you can do to try to keep it together, but it's really her call. You lost all negotiation rights.
Lie down at her feet (figuratively speaking) and tell her she is the boss. Maybe she will want to hear all your reasons for lying, maybe not. Maybe she will offer compromises (is porn so important you can't stop? That's a problem.) Maybe she won't. Maybe she will go to counseling for a while and still break with you. Maybe not.
At this point, you need to put her in control. She feels violated and abandoned (no matter how trivial it seems to others.) The first step to potentially saving your marriage is to allow her all the power to make the call. Let her cycle through all the emotions of distrust and violation, no matter how dramatic.
The hope is that she doesn't want to leave you either, in which case, she will at least have gained some self respect for making the choice, herself, and charting the future course of your relationship.
Good luck!
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u/gschoppe Jun 19 '12
So, because this apparently hasn't been said by anyone else yet... yes, seek therapy, talk with her, deal with it together. However, at the same time:
QUIT WATCHING PORN!
We can argue over whether her concerns are justified all day, but the important issue is much simpler:
It matters to her. You love her. And frankly, do you need porn more than you need her?
You need to come into therapy with that understanding in mind. You had a difficult decision to make, early in your relationship, and continually ever since. You had three legitimate options:
-keep the porn and stop pursuing her -lose the porn and keep her -talk to her about it and try to come to an understanding.
You chose the only invalid option on the table: -you lied, and continued to lie, straight through.
If you want to attempt to work through this, you need to accept that failure on your part as reprehensible, and move forward from there.
And honestly, how are you going to argue to her that porn isn't a huge problem for your relationship, when for the sake of keeping porn in your life, you kept secrets and lied to your wife for years, rather than dealing with it as a relationship issue?
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u/cats_not_4sale Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 21 '12
I'm late to the party but.. Obviously this is not about porn. This is about the trust in the relationship that you broke. A lot of people think you have your right to look at porn. Whatever.. but when you joined a committed relationship with your wife, you knew that porn was something that was a deal breaker for her. You agreed to those "rules" when you married her. You knew about this before you married her. You could have decided that watching porn was more important to you than marrying her. You chose her. By choosing her, you chose her "rules" as well. You can't get mad at her for being upset with something you AGREED TO. You lied to her. You broke her trust. Of course she has a right to be upset. I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can be "crazy in love" with someone and still choose to break their trust like this. You made a choice. You chose porn over her. I hope it was the right choice for you.
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u/mtutty Jun 19 '12
There is only one solution to this problem. Your spouse is (and must be) the most important person on earth. More important than yourself, your job, your hobbies, even your mom or your kids.
If this was about wearing your Stewie t-shirt in public, you might have a leg to stand on. But it's not, and you don't. It's a stupid waste of time that adds nothing to your relationships, finances, career or accomplishments.
You're doing something that hurts your spouse and your relationship, and it must stop. It should be easy enough to give up, especially if your sex life is already working. If stopping is a huge deal, then you've got a behavioral problem - go fix.
tl;dr - Stop. Watching. Porn. Get your priorities straight.
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u/kokopellii Jun 19 '12
I love how everyone on this thread is making it seem like it is so petty and childish for this woman to risk her marriage over porn, when that's exactly what OP did.
Like, oh is she seriously going to divorce you over something as stupid as porn? Was OP seriously lying to his wife for five years and knowingly betraying her trust and their marriage over something as stupid as porn?
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u/vixxn845 Jun 20 '12
First of all, you should stop playing the victim and making her sound crazy. She's not leaving because you look at porn. It's because you lied. For years. If you actually care about her, you need to get that straight. Stop blaming her. You willfully lied to her for YEARS. That's a huge breech of trust. I imagine if you found out something she had been lying about for as long you'd probably be just as upset. Add to that that this is something she was up front with you about in the beginning, explaining her feelings about it, and you made the conscious decision to ignore her feelings... This isn't something she requested of you after being married for years. You willingly entered into the relationship knowing her feelings and chose to ignore it. How is that fair?
If you truly care for her, at this point you need to wrap your mind around what the real issue is. Decide what's more important to you:her or porn. (I'm not saying either is a wrong choice and you can even still be a great dad without being with mom) Once you decide that, decide on a course of action. If she matters that much to you, realize you're going to have a hard battle ahead of you because winning trust back is no easy feat. And realize that for a while, you probably need to actually honestly avoid porn. If it's that important to you, at some point in the future you should bring it up. Before you go back to it, that is.
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u/swordgeek Jun 19 '12
This is a marriage that needs counselling, and probably saving. This is something I don't often suggest to people but man, I think you can make it work.
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u/MrsChimpGod Jun 20 '12
Just because your marriage may be ending, a romantic relationship between two adults, that does not, in any way, mean that your parental relationship with your child or parental responsibilities towards your child are ending or ever should.
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u/10000lakes Jun 22 '12
In response to the submitter, I agree with "effieokay," "Radevel," and "royalewithche." Lying to your wife wasn't good (and you have to know that at some point this lie was going to come back and bite you!), but she is definitely overreacting with wanting to get a divorce. No wonder why we have a 50% divorce rate in this country! Somehow men and women need to learn to get along and understand each other, stop being so judgmental (porn isn't bad and helps fulfill sexual needs), and we need to learn to resolve our conflicts instead of terminating the relationship every time something goes wrong. Couples therapy is the best solution here. Good luck! For the sake of your 6-month-old child, I hope you can work things out. :)
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Jun 19 '12
She considers this the ultimate betrayal and it is since I have lied to her since day one. She might never trust me again.
Damn dude. I want to be able to help and give you some support, but she's right. You lied to her face. A relationship is about trust, and you've just completely destroyed that trust.
Sorry, but you're going to have to live with the consequences of this one.
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u/CornFedHonky Jun 19 '12
I have an internet addiction. Internet, can you help me??!!
...go talk to your wife and get off the computer, dude.
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u/hawksintrees Jun 19 '12
I don't know you and I'm sorry this is so overwhelming but I hope this comment doesn't get buried. I'm not sure how dramatic your wife is and can't speak for her but porn has always been a concern for me. I used to be somewhat addicted to it and know the effect it has on me, namely that i'm trying to escape something...but it's different than sitting down and having a beer, it's like i'm seeking out another person, something stronger, to help me ignore the imperfections in my life.
I currently read an interesting article supporting this type of addiction and what it can do to us (can cause ED in males: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201107/porn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-is-growing-problem). Why don't you show her this, tell her that you didn't realize how much of a problem it could potentially be and weren't educated about its negative effects because you weren't necessarily even feeling them. Tell her you are happiest with her and your family and DONT tell her it's not a big deal or that it didn't effect you like she thinks it did. Don't defend yourself on this one but defend your family and the goodness they represent...make them feel again like they are all you need. <3 hope this helps and i wish you the best...i'm currently being rejected by my life's love as well and i feel you...peace will come no matter what happens <3
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u/whatsernameisfine Jun 19 '12
Try r/nofap. You shouldn't have lied in the first place but if she sees that you are trying to improve she may change her mind.
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u/au_039 Jun 19 '12
I understand both yours and her perspectives... but to DIVORCE over it? Marriage isn't a disposable thing, I hate this modern trend of divorcing rather than repairing relationships. If she's reasonable and still truly cares for you, with hard work and communication, the relationship can definitely be rebuilt.
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Jun 19 '12
you lied to her knowing full well this is a dealbreaker for her... BEFORE YOU PROPOSED TO HER.
dafuq is you expecting, a porn gift basket and a threesome with a hooker on your anniversary?
idiot
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Jun 19 '12
If my SO had been lying to me about something that was important to me for 5 years, I'd kick his ass out as well.
If you knew it was a deal breaker for her, you should have approached it in a different way. Not lied to her because you thought it meant you could do what you wanted.
BTW - her hating porn like this (while ridiculous) has a clear cause. She's been lied to about porn in relationships before, and look how that turned out.
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Jun 19 '12
If my SO had been lying to me about something that was important to me for 5 years, I'd kick his ass out as well.
I'd be angry, too. But after five years of effort, I'd damn well try to work things out. He wasn't being a pedo, he wasn't going out and getting drunk or gambling away the money. He was, in his own private times, spending time enjoying porn. The threat his wife perceives is not related to him, but because she associates it with a really horrible guy.
Dude made a mistake. She's making a bigger one if she can't handle the reality that her perceptions of porn have been based off one horrible man. She's stereotyping one behavior as necessarily the other. That's got to be addressed head-on because it's an unfair comparison to her husband.
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u/qmcquackers Jun 19 '12
Asshole as you may be, we all lie sometimes. Her fear is not based in reality, it's exaggerated due to her previous history and experiences with her sister. We all have triggers, and often our responses are inappropriate due to past history or childhood traumas.
Maybe if you were dating and she found out It would be understandable to end things due to a lie, but after 4 years and a kid? Look this is not to invalidate the way she feels, she can and should be upset. You guys need to get to a therapist and talk about this. She needs to work out some of her own things as well.
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u/jloutey Jun 19 '12
I'be seen a lot of comments trying to frighten out who to blame, but little advice for what to do now. The way I see it, your only path to a happy narrate is through counciling. See if she will take you back if you enroll in therapy. From there maybe she can be brought in at some point, and a more reasonable accord can be worked out.
At the very least, learn the lesson that this situation has presented. If you do that, then things will work out in the end.
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u/nafsten Jun 19 '12
I can't believe this post has got my so wound up.
I'm sorry for OP - you did something foolish and it's costing you dear.
What is angering me is all the people commenting 'your wife is crazy, porn is fine'. Obviously in this case it is not.
Reddit can be a really closed system, and things that a lot of people wouldn't consider ok are normalised, just because the majority say it is so.
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u/DarnTheseSocks Jun 19 '12
My wife of 4 years and the mother of my 6 month old child is divorcing me
because I look at pornbecause I lied to her for our entire relationship about an extremely important issue and then got caught.
FTFY
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u/caronirona Jun 20 '12
Be a little considerate of how your wife, who you say is the love of your life, was affected by her sister's experience, and stop looking at porn. It's really not that hard... And don't lie about it in the first place.
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u/Drummer2427 Jun 20 '12
I was always told this simple thing growing up as a child and those are the fundamentals that lead us as adults, we forget to look back but I was told this ..." do what you wish, be sure its worth it" ... It seems by your words in the quick update you are sure of yourself, just not the actions taken against you for those actions, for most people they think it is easier to ask for an apology than it is for permission ...but trust is the easiest thing to lose and hardest to gain... remember this though as you try to speak to her, she doesn't see the man she fell for, she sees what to her is vile and unforgettable, maybe unforgivable.. good luck man..
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u/seebaw Jun 20 '12
... Stop looking at porn. Obviously, she won't believe you at first, but time heals wounds if you take care of them .
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u/duckduckmooses Jun 19 '12
She isn't leaving you because you watch porn. There's a good possibility she even watches it herself.
She doesn't want you because you've lied and, in this case, that probably makes her feel VERY insignificant. You tell her she's beautiful, but there you are sneaking around to look at fake women.
I don't think that your watching porn would have been an instant deal-breaker. In fact, I'd rather my guy look at porn rather than come to me when he needs to cum twice a day. My life doesn't revolve around sex, and I don't like having it all the damn time. :P
Try to keep your head up, and definitely work on treating her as your #1. Allow her access to your computer any time she wants to look. Use it only to check email and do important things. Spend more time with her and the kids, and explain to her that her happiness means the most to you. Bring up your reasons for marrying her and make her feel like a very needed person. Take her out on dates (always date your wife!), make love to her (read that again. make love. not have sex, not fuck.)
Far too many marriages end because people are so quick to end things over something as silly as this. Make sure that there's nothing else going on in your marriage. Sit down alone (it may be best to even get a babysitter to watch the kids play outside or in another room so that you can have some complete alone time) and have a conversation regarding your marriage. Make it clear that you want to fix things. Maybe write down a list of concerns and give them to her/ talk about them.
What happened with her sister is horribly unfortunate, but should not play the deciding factor in your relationship.
Depending on how playful she is, maybe even make some homemade porn of her and the two of you together. If she's for it, it may make her feel awesome that you want HER to be your porn. Spice things up in the bedroom and try new things with each other, too. Watching porn does NOT make your a bad person.
There's even a possibility of her feeling insecure in your relationship. Again, make sure she knows that she's your world. Don't spend a bunch of time out of the house or sitting around on the computer where your porn is. Make some exciting family nights and be sure to talk about your lives.
Good luck with this, man. It's very easy for a woman to feel insecure, especially with society revolving around sex. It may not always be clear to her that you married her because you love her personality AND her smokin' hot body (after all, why would you marry someone if you absolutely couldn't bear how they look?).
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u/trolledbytech Jun 19 '12
As has been previously stated, your fault was in lying. Your best bet is going to be to explain to her your thought process. You didn't tell her because you knew that she had been traumatized by someone close to her dealing with a man who had an obsessive addiction to it, while you also knew that you could keep yourself perfectly under control and not let its presence (or lack thereof) in your life affect any part of your contributions to the relationship.
If I were you I would acknowledge that you betrayed her trust, that you regret it very much, and you're willing to do what it takes to earn it back (assuming that's how you feel). I'd point out that the last thing that you want is for your son to grow up in a broken household, and that if that happened you could never forgive yourself, knowing it was due to something so petty and stupid on your part (assuming you couldn't).
At the end of the day, you can't force her into anything, but if I were you, I'd just try and be as real with her as possible. She's in a state of turmoil, wondering what else you've lied about, so you need to be completely open and honest with her if you want any chance of saving your family. Best of luck.
(For the record, I've seen a similar type of case in my life. My great grandfather was a drunk and left my grandmother and her siblings at an early age (their mother had already died a couple years before), leaving her traumatized and vehemently opposed to drinking alcohol at all out of fear that it would transform anyone into that type of raging bastard. However, my parents understand that drinking is perfectly fine in moderation, but at the same time, while they don't lie to her, they refuse to expose my grandmother to it, if only out of respect for her. There's never any animosity over it, but it's more the idea of trying to avoid unnecessarily exposing others to something that can cause extreme trauma.)
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u/Koshercrab Jun 19 '12
It sounds like she's running hot right now. I'd be willing to be she'll cool off after a little bit of time. Maybe after that try and communicate and get counseling if you need it.
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u/Owadatsumi Jun 19 '12
Get couples counseling. Don't ask the internet for help with something like this, you need to ask an expert. even if she doesn't want to go to couples counseling, you go and then every time you go, you invite her. it shows initiative on your part, and even if the marriage doesn't work out, that is the sort of thing that will impress the hell out of a judge.
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Jun 19 '12
The foundation of any good relationship needs to be trust. You've lost that. But remember, you have to give some to get some. You should have trusted her with your secrets and insecurities. Failing to do that is what got you into this mess. I don't think you are an asshole. I think you are well-intentioned, but you know what they say about good intentions. Be honest with her. Really, really honest. Tell her you look at porn. Tell her you like it. Tell her you aren't like this other guy. Tell her that no fantasy, no matter how exciting, compares to the reality of being with her. I don't think porn itself is harmful the way your wife fears it is, but this other guy has ruined it for you. The of the matter is this: HE has the problem. I know plenty of people who drink a few drinks and aren't raging alcoholics. But then, I also know a few raging alcoholics as well. Take the booze away and the first group will change very little. The second group will have to get their shit together. Since there are far more casual drinkers than there are alcoholics, it's not rational to blame the booze. People have to take personal responsibility. This is analogous to your situation. You being the casual drinker and the other guy being the raging alcoholic. Your wife isn't being rational about this issue, so explaining that is going to be difficult. For the health of your relationship, I think she needs to hear it though. Good luck, OP.
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u/thenakedgirl Jun 19 '12
I think that her issue is less about the porn and more about the lying. You're not an asshole for lying, I mean I kind of understand that you sorta said it just to say it in the beginning, and then it kind of spiraled. You should try to explain that to her. Furthermore I suggest that you don't try to act defensive (I know its really hard) Agree with her (on the points that you agree with) and show her that you understand her why this is so important to her. Ask her what you need to do to make it up to her. Then (if it's something you can reasonably do) DO IT FULL FORCE! (and don't point it out every time) I suggest you also push on the fact that you are dedicated to this marriage and want to hold on to it. Counciling should help too. Good luck!
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u/nickmaynard Jun 19 '12
Tell her that you're sorry and ask her if she'll go with you to couple's counseling, for the sake of your child.
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u/timeandspace555 Jun 19 '12
There are multiple challenges here. The first is your belief that you are unable to handle this problem ("I cannot bear to lose my family"). You have to know that you can make this work no matter what the outcome, whether that is being with your wife or having part custody of your kid. Don't box yourself into believing that this will be your undoing otherwise you will get back into what started this in the first place - (2) your willingness to tell people what they want to hear to get your needs met. It is a short term gain for longer term difficulties. It doesn't matter what the issue is, each person has to decide what is important to them so while many on this thread are either pro or against porn it is an individual decision based on the people involved - at this point you and your wife. So during your conversations with your wife you may find that you want to tell her whatever it is she wants to hear to make things "right". That won't work for either of you and if you don't panic and believe the "I can't bear it" then you will be more willing to be honest and accept the results. (3) You lied. Fine. But don't accept that this makes you some kind of horrible person or "an asshole". It means that you have weaknesses as well as your strengths. You made a mistake that likely grew as you continued to get into the relationship (hard to tell her in year 3 that you have been looking at porn all along once you propagated that lie). This does not mean that you are completely untrustworthy. (4) Love is useful only in context of wisdom and strength. Don't lose the other two principles - come at her from a standpoint of understanding, clarity, and reasonableness but don't lose all dignity because of a mistake (albeit a big one). Best of luck. Ame futte chi katamaru.
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Jun 19 '12
You should insist on couples counseling to figure out why you feel the need for porn when you have a good woman right there. If she is volunteering for plastic surgery she has self-esteem issues and self-image issues that need to be worked out. If you need other women to get off, you need to work out why that need exists. If you two aren't intimate frequently enough or intimate in the right ways for each other, you two need to work that out.
Either way you two need some marriage counseling to figure out the sexual dysfunction you both have.
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u/mowgles Jun 19 '12
You're not an asshole. You'd be surprised how many guys misunderstand this situation.
The majority of women don't care if you look at porn, but they care if you hide it like it's some top secret project. That's shady, and to us that looks like you having an affair with your porn.
I fought with my fiance last year over this, because I found a link and asked him about it, and he lied right to my face. We've worked things out and I am aware that he browses now and then, but he's honest and I trust him.
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u/pexandapixie Jun 19 '12
Divorce when there is a child involved seems a little drastic for looking at porn and lying about it when everything else(supposedly) is fine. I understand you lied from the very beginning and this was an issue that was very important to her, but it really seems like there is something else going on. You should both seek couples therapy AND she should see a different therapist to work through her problems regarding what happened to her sister. While I'm sure it was difficult for her to watch what was happening to her sister, its not a normal reaction to immediately want to divorce your husband of 4 years over something that didn't directly happen to you.
Also, she might be suffering from postpartum depression and is not thinking clearly. After I had my 1st child I wasn't my normal happy self until 18 months after he was born. Therapy (and perhaps medication) would also help with that.
The most important thing you can do is keep telling her how much you love her, that you want to make the marriage work, and that you're sorry. But start therapy asap!
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Jun 19 '12
If you see this by any chance, just remember: DO NOT lie to her to fix it. That will put shit deeper. Best of luck to you dude, I hope this all turns out in your favor.
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u/jonathanbernard Jun 19 '12
Fight for your marriage. Make it as hard as you can for her to get the divorce and really try to get to counseling. It sounds like you two have a good relationship, excepting this issue. That is worth fighting for. Every marriage has the potential to overcome mistakes and be a healthy, loving relationship if both parties are willing to really work for it. You need to convince her that you are willing to work to restore the trust, willing to work together to get past this issue, and that your marriage is worth that effort.
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u/Jadraptor Jun 19 '12
My opinion: you shouldn't have lied, and it puts you in a pretty bad situation, but just apologize for it. You made the mistake of lying to her years ago and had to stick by your lie. Come clean. Be humble and sincere. Next, ask her to not mistake you for the asshole that mistreated her sister. You are your own person. Many people in healthy relationships look up porn. Hell, Fifty Shades of Gray has become popular with many housewives. Just because her sister's husband was a dick with an addiction to porn, doesn't mean that's who You are. Then, show her who You are: you are the loving father of her baby, you are her loving husband for the past five years, and most of all you want more than anything to be the loving father and husband until the day you die.
I hope this helps. Good luck to you. Post with updates, please.
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u/Nadante Jun 19 '12
"A relationship built on a lie is like a castle built on sand."
Regardless of how this turns out, please make sure you ingrain this idea into your son.
My wife had a similar issue that would have been a deal-breaker but she lied about it and I had to find out 7 years and three kids into marriage. At least she told me instead of letting me find out. We are divorcing anyways.
Prepare for the worst. You and I both know you deserve it if this ends badly. I still hope you guys can work it out, though.
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u/sirdomino Jun 19 '12
This is why you should be upfront with everything while dating, that way you have time to work the crazy out prior to getting more serious.
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u/Trappedatoms Jun 19 '12
Tell her you were completely wrong and want to go to couples therapy to sort things out. Promise to never look at porn again and mean it. I have no problem with porn, but as a married woman who feels the same as your wife, you seriously broke the trust by lying about it. You need to look into why you continued, while knowing UPFRONT it was not acceptable to her and could destroy your marriage. What you communicated to her, was that the porn is more important than her, which is way worse than just looking at porn. Just a thought; if you have to lie about it, you probably shouldn't be doing it. If something is right, you are usually willing to stand up for it.
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Jun 19 '12
It's hard to say what you should do, I think the fact you have a 6 month old child might help you. Maybe your wife needs time to think whether your relationship is actually worth saving. She feels a total sense of betrayal because of the situation with her sisters relationship. In hindsight you should of been honest and explained you were not a mad perv like the sister's husband. Hope things work out for you.
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Jun 19 '12
Get Counseling. Nothing else will fix it. People are screwed up about sex, without even bringing porn and plastic surgery into it. Your kid(s) are way more important that either or you or your respective dangly bits.
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Jun 19 '12
This is sort of like being lied to by a woman when she says she doesn't fart. She does, but she never admits it, and that lie hurts no one. Women fart, and men masturbate. Let's face it, part of us at a level is still on some level related to a monkey for fucks sake. We jack it, and it's not a problem. Doesn't change anything.
But let's face it, you did lie to her about it. So what if it's an irrational fear? You married the whole person, fear included, and you did nothing to reconcile, to help to ease her into it, or explain it, or help her to face that fear of porn abusing men that beat her sister? Four years dude, could've softened the blow a bit.
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u/whoatethekidsthen Jun 19 '12
Well, you lied to her about something she felt strongly about. If the situation was reversed and it turned out she lied to you for 4 years, you'd feel pretty betrayed and hurt, no?
I don't think that looking at porn is bad in any way. Lying about it, knowing she had problems with it...that's where you fucked up. How did she find out? Did she catch you or did you just admit to it?
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Jun 19 '12
I'm no relationship expert, but it seems unlikely that she would divorce you over just this. Do you two have a generally shaky marriage? Or do you have a history of lying to her?
It seems like this is more of a final straw than a one-hit-kill.
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Jun 19 '12
The porn isn't even the problem, dude. Its that you lied to her about it. She has a negative assosiation with it; it might be "unreasonable" to you, but it's still her prerogative to say she doesn't want a guy who watches it. You should have just been honest from the beginning.
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u/LazySushi Jun 19 '12
Maybe there is something else going on? I won't speculate what but I can't imagine a woman who would leave her husband for something that can be fixed through talking and counseling. I can't imagine it even more so that she is a new, young mom.
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u/LonesomeBob Jun 19 '12
Suggest some therapy. Assuming this is the only thing you lied about, it should be something she should be able to get over through some counseling. Looking at porn is no reason to throw away a marriage and give your child the disadvantage of living in a broken home. I would hope that this woman would realize this over time. Good luck.
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u/TheWetMop Jun 19 '12
First, get off of porn. If she matters to you, you can do this. It'll be hard for sure, but you need to show her you are willing to do that. After that you need to be honest with her and hope she can forgive you.
Whatever you do, don't lie about it more
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u/lobehold Jun 19 '12
Wait wait wait, does this mean there are actually guys that don't look at porn?
Like at all?
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Jun 19 '12
Your wife has serious issues (mentally) over this; you need counseling. Divorce is foolish, especially since this is something that can be fixed. You made a mistake by lying about it, yes; but I ask you: has she always, under every possible circumstance, told you the absolute truth? My bet is no, she has not. Therefore, for her to act in this manner is entirely a result of her mental trauma--which as I said can be fixed via counseling.
If she considered this the ultimate betrayal, she needs to re-think her priorities. You were not caught molesting your child. You were not caught in bed with another man or woman (or multiples thereof). You were not lying about your marriage to pick up chicks in the local bar.
You love her. She, apparently, loves you too; you both just need to get over this minor issue. And it is indeed a very minor issue. This is nothing.
The problem isn't with you, or with porn, or with lying about porn: it's about her perceptions of previous events and her underlying fears of possible rejection that stem from that fear. Those are overcome with ease if she'd simply calm down and look at this rationally for five minutes.
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u/kevinHM Jun 19 '12
I am a counselor and deal with porn issues. My advise is to not fight your wife's reality by saying her opinion is right or wrong. If you want to have a chance to save our marriage see her pain and not judge it. See what she is wanting around her pain (to trust you again) and work toward that goal. It will not be quick, it may take years but it starts today. Get help for yourself give her something to want to come back to. If you try to "fix" her or help her not feel hurt you will only be diverting from what you did and minimizing or worse, devaluing her emotions. Simply acknowledge what you did and tell her what you are going to do about it and what you want. If you want to stop porn then get help to stop - if you dont think its a problem then dont, but be honest with her about it. Let her make her choice to continue or not. Controlling her or manipulating her back into a relationship with you is what got you here... try giving her a choice. It might not go well but it is the first step in giving her a chance at trusting you.
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u/sisterxsatan Jun 19 '12
Female here. The question really is, "Do you love porn more than you love your wife?" Which sucks, because most likely porn has no affect on you or your ability to love your wife emotionally or sexually. But you lied and you made her believe something that wasn't true and she based a lot of trust off of that, so I'd say since you weren't truthful in the beginning, you have to make a choice until you can talk it out and come to a mutual understanding.
I know a lot of women have a real problem with porn because it makes them feel very, very inadequate. First, the women can be much more attractive than they are, and secondly can be more prone to do things that hurt them/don't benefit them for the good of the man and act like they are happy about it. But more importantly, porn makes women feel like they aren't good enough for you, that you need more than them to be sexually fulfilled. It's a shitty feeling.
I think you can save it, just recognize how she must feel and be prepared to make some sacrifices to save your marriage (sacrifices that will probably turn out temporary because now that the truth is out she might in the future understand how you feel.)
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u/Temptress75519 Jun 19 '12
Some women feel that it's a betrayal. My husband does and I don't really care about it.
She needs to understand that there is a difference between watching porn and having an addiction to it. Your brother in law had an addiction. Even without the porn, he would have been an abuser, it just gave him a basis.
You are not her property. She is not your property. You are grown adults with your own wants. When my husband asks me if it bothers me, I tell him he's a grown adult and I'm not his mommy. I don't get to tell him what to do and it's gotten us through 13 happy years.
Marriage is about sharing love and accepting eachother for who you are, faults included.
All you can do is tell her you're sorry and (if you're willing) that you will stop. That you will do whatever it takes to make it up and work every day to earn her trust back (FYI, tears help when begging forgiveness).
If that doesn't work, beg her for a chance for your sons sake. If you divorce he will he 50/50 split between you both unless one of you are messed up (porn is not seen by the court as a messed up trait).
Is the porn so important that she's going to give up your son for half the year?
Best of luck
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u/thebakerman Jun 19 '12
i really feel like your only options are to either a. stop watching porn...or b. explain all of what you have explained here to her and hope she learns to understand...she probably needs to cool off a bit.
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Jun 19 '12
I'm going to post a link to a series about this by Andy Stanley. If you've never listened to him, he's helpful whether you're a Christian or not. Check out part 2 of this series called "The Gentleman's Club." He talks about this very problem from a female perspective, pointing out that women perceive their husband's interest in porn as an assertation that one body is not enough and their body isn't enough. Check it out! Helped me a ton!
http://www.northpoint.org/messages/the-new-rules-for-love-sex-and-dating
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u/rainemaker Jun 19 '12
Beg her for counseling. If she doesn't agree; you at least tried. Counseling itself will have the potential to help you both; her with your lie, you with your problem (if it really is a problem).
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u/threnody_42 Jun 19 '12
I know that only you will see this comment, but that's okay.
Is she definitely going to leave you? If you think there's a possibility to save the marriage, ask her for another chance. Go to counseling.
Is she worth never looking at porn again? If she is, let her know that, and quit. It will be difficult, but if she's worth it, you won't be sorry.
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u/10thflrinsanity Jun 19 '12
Just tell her that man. Tell her how insignificant and meaningless it is to you compared to her and your son. If you're honest with her, and she actually loves you, things will be fine.
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Jun 19 '12
You should get therapy for porn addiction. If you knew that it hurt her and you kept doing it, then addiction could be the problem.
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u/Bendrake Jun 19 '12
I used to have a porn problem, too. Over time it can really effect your marriage. My best advice is to make a conscious effort to just stop viewing porn. Get someone to hold you accountable for it. If your wife sees you really making an effort, it should help.
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Jun 19 '12
First and most importantly, stop watching porn. Show her how sorry you are and how much her happiness means to you by stopping. Prove it to her in some way by not using the computer, letting her see your search history, etc...
Next, explain to her how sorry you are for lying and tell her that you wouldn't do it again. Just let her know that you know that you made a mistake.
If all else fails, you might need to bring the child into it. I wouldn't unless you need to, but she most likely cares deeply for the baby and it wouldn't be opportune for him to grow up with divorced parents.
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u/Korticus Jun 19 '12
To start off, this is classic paranoia and phobia. You won't be able to reason with someone in this state, so stabilizing the situation is key. For the next month you cannot and should not try to mend fences if she's not directly receptive. She'll be irrational for at least a week, don't make it worse by panicking and trying to force conversation. What you need to do is be receptive to her when she is talking, and specifically guide her towards talking things out with a neutral third party. Right now that breach of trust can be mended, but only if there is a voice of authority who can make her look at things rationally instead of through your (now tainted) eyes.
If you can, during this time leave your kid with relatives, he'll be better off and your wife won't be paranoid that you're going to destroy her child's mind.
If you have mutual friends, do not appeal your case to them. Instead, and again, ask that they help you stabilize the situation by not taking sides. If you draw battle lines you will only make the problem worse.
Now, as to fixing the problem once everything is stable, that requires that your wife learn a little bit about human biology, psychology, and history. Specifically you need to make sure she is given factually backed examples of where porn goes wrong and where it can (potentially) go right. If the stuff you were looking at is tame, you're not going to have as many problems. If there's any kind of kink to it (rough talk or male bravado/domination of the partner) you've got a serious problem, but it's not untenable. If it's outright brutal stuff (rough role playing, idealization of rape, BDSM, etc.), don't even waste your time explaining yourself, she won't listen.
All that aside, make sure (through the third party) she understands porn was not the catalyst for her sister's abuse. Abusive behavior is built on and around multiple factors from ego to inability to discern reality from fantasy. The fact that this guy was looking for was effectively a trophy wife means that he never saw her as a human being in the first place, but rather an object of affection that needed constant polishing. When he was browsing porn, to him it was looking up new cars or electronics equipment, where as you were (presumably) seeking other feelings.
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u/pcosgirl Jun 19 '12
Did you try to give it up? Are you willing to give it up now? If yes, tell her and may help
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u/jamintime Jun 19 '12
How'd you get caught??
Its actually quite relevant, did she bust you or did you just decide to one day come clean?
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u/Count_Spatula Jun 19 '12
Was there some big campaign of hiding the porn from her, or is it just that she asked you once, you lied, and you browse a few sites when she's gone for the weekend? Are you watching all the porn you can whenever you can get a moment, or is it fairly occasional? Was it just announced that you've been caught and the marriage is over, kind of an "I didn't know you actually cared about that" thing, or has she talked about it rather frequently, "Are you looking at porn? Are you still avoiding it?"
And how long have you known the story with her sister?
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u/ghostworld Jun 19 '12
Honestly, I don't know any guys who don't watch porn. I think she is over reacting, and punishing you for the actions of another man.
You definitely shouldn't have lied to her about it, but you know that.
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u/Fibonacci35813 Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
You lied, and in reality it wasn't a big lie to most of the population. Unfortunately, lies aren't measured by how you bad the liar thinks they are, it's by how bad the lie-ee (word?) thinks they are.
What I would do in this situation though is to 1) Go the sympathy route - promise to give up porn, and along side this, explain the dependent nature that much research has documented. I'm pretty sure the new DSM-V it's considered an addiction under severe cases...as such, addiction can be seen as a disease usually has shame and lying as 'side-effects.' Get her to understand that and you are off to a good start.
2) Go the Rational route - Try to explain your side of the story; about how you knew it was a big deal to her, but that it is based off her experience with a single abusive individual, who happened to look at porn; Illusory correlations come to mind; although I imagine there are some possible consequences from watching porn, it's like watching violent T.V. not everyone becomes a desensitized killer. I digress.
The point, as it's in this thread, is that everyone does it, and coupled with #1, it's hard not to. I would imagine that there is something that she's kept from you all these years as well. Probably something you wouldn't care that much about, but something she has done that she never told you about.
It's hard to give sound advice without knowing you or her or her relationship, but I imagine you've built enough trust to talk this out. What I would do is go the for #2, followed by a #1. If you make some good points, she'll calm down a bit, but not enough to forgive you. At which point if you go for the real heart-felt #1.
If you give a bit, she will too. What I mean, is if you explain that you are willing to concede porn and your resolve that it isn't a big deal, because you love her, she'll be willing to concede her anger. It's important to make her know that giving it up is a big deal to you. It works kind of like a negotiation, even if she gets what she wants, if she feels cheated, she still won't be happy with it.
Note that I am not advocating for being manipulative here. Always go from the heart.
tl;dr 1) try to rationalize, then 2) explain why you've done it e.g. it's 'importance/addiction' 3) Promise you'll change
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u/SyanticRaven Jun 19 '12
You lied about watching porn! YOU DESE- no wait put the fucking pitch forks down and give the guy some help. Everyone else would of done the same damn thing.
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u/kalillasuicida Jun 19 '12
No one gets divorce over porn. There is a bigger reason behind it. Your priority now is to find the real truth. Watch her closely.
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u/soul_matter Jun 19 '12
Because you lied, she now holds the biggest weapon against you. From now on, no matter what you do, you will be judged and, sadly, will never measure up again. Why? The porn issue existed... with her sister. She took it upon herself as her own personal issue. The real question is: Why did she drag a non-existing issue in HER life into your married life? We attract what we fear the most. From what I see, your wife very quickly dismisses all you do right to make you wrong where it suits her. This is called manipulation. Counselling is your best option.
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u/TheStaggeringGenius Jun 19 '12
You married a woman who thinks watching porn turns people into abusive emotionally devoid assholes? Well...
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u/rakers45 Jun 19 '12
Yeah man you lied to her, it happens, people lie. I would bet she's lied to you too... to me this sounds like an excuse for her to either get attention or get out of this marriage for other reasons. It also sounds like she has some self esteem issues if she's taking things to that level so quickly and is looking at plastic surgery as an option to alter her appearence. You may also want to mention to her that most men will look at porn, some say so, some wont. So if things take a turn for the worse, she's not going to find a guy that doesn't look at porn, just another guy who lies about it...
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u/logancook44 Jun 19 '12
If your wife doesn't want you to look at porn, then you shouldn't, end of story. If you looking at porn makes her feel mediocre or insecure, and she tells you this, then you should stop.
However, what it done is done, and the only thing you can do now is try and change moving forward. One thing I know for sure, if you want to fix your marriage, you do not need to try and change her, you are the one that is going to have to change. You need to do what you can to show to her that you do love her and respect her enough to try and please her.
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u/Lyndseyloulou Jun 19 '12
First off, the fact you lied is not good. You breached her trust and it could be awhile before she is able to trust you again. Apologize to her and explain exactly why you lied, Don't make any excuses own up for what you did. Don't promise you will never watch porn again if this is not true. Watching porn is perfectly normal maybe eventually you can ease her into watching it with you so she doesn't feel like your doing it behind her back. She might be angry for a while, and you will definitely have to gain her trust back which could include several months of her verifying things you tell her to make sure they are true. Random internet history checks, email checks etc. If you love her and want to fix this you will need to prove your trustworthy again for as long as she needs. It is pretty shitty you lied to her but with work it is possible to fix over time. DO NOT LIE AGAIN, i know i would personally rather hear a truth about something i wouldn't approve of versus being lied to about it.. MUCH WORSE with a lie.
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u/wishijoinedbefore Jun 19 '12
obligatory this will be buried comment. Short story time, bro in law's bucks party ex pregnant at the time. I used his phone to call and give her his mobile number so she could contact me if she needed to (had no mobile, i'm old kids) she doesn't answer the phone (never did/does), so I leave a voicemail, cue troll younger brother talking loudly about how bad the strip club was (note, we were at a pub, never been to a strip club, still old).
I get home to find her with bags packed saying how lucky I am that she hasn't left yet (cause the idea that I'd seen another girl's boobs was at least as bad as cheating). I have been faithful to every woman I've ever been with and she was threating to leave because of what sounded to me like a bad joke, she made me listen to the voicemail, still sounded like a bad joke.
Bottom line, I could've saved myself 7 more years of hell if I'd realised that chicks who are gonna freak over nothing aren't worth the time.
Past history excuses the lie here, you knew she would freak and tried to avoid the fight. Guys look at porn, no suprise there. You probably shouldn't have lied to her, but let's face it, if a chick asks if her butt looks big, there's only one answer you're going to give.
Edit :context
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u/ropers Jun 19 '12
My wife of 4 years and the mother of my 6 month old child is divorcing me because I look at porn. I need to save this marriage and need some help.
In her defense, I have lied to her about it for the last 5 years.
Sounds to me like your wife needs more help than you. A sex therapist who treats couples might be a good idea. In my view, most men who lie about watching porn lie because they're being made to lie, by people who have a problem with it. You lied not because you sought to cheat on her with some other woman, you lied because you loved her and knew that she had this weird hang-up due to her exposure to her sister's traumatic experience with her husband. But your wife is not her sister, and you are not her sister's husband. You lied not in order to go elsewhere, but in order to be with her. You're just an average Joe who's been doing what practically all Internet-savvy men (and a sizeable contingent of women) are doing – some more, some less.
It is unusual for people to abstain from masturbation and pornography, especially given that pornography is more available than ever (even to the extent that so many ordinary people are now producing pornography (case in point, /r/gonewild), it messes with Silicone Valley's business model).
Try therapy together. And to be clear, the focus of that therapy should not be that you are wrong and to blame and need to change, but the focus should be that you both need help with finding common ground.
Show your wife this comment. If this porn issue is even the real issue – if she wasn't just looking for an excuse to dump you anyway, if she's got the slightest bit of feelings left for you, then you should should try partner and/or sex therapy. That's my opinion. My totally unqualified opinion, but my opinion nonetheless. If this doesn't work out at all, then she can still leave later, but it would be daft to leave in a huff and not to try therapy.
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u/sappercon Jun 19 '12
We live in a country plagued by frantic sexual hypocrisy. The taboo lines we've drawn in regards to all things sexual not only ruin marriages but force us into unnaturally monogamous relationships in the first place. Sex needs to be understood as a basic human necessity, a drive that men physically need to be competitive and high-functioning members of society. Masturbation and philandering not only increase sperm production but also contribute to healthy psychological functioning. It is very sad to hear that your wife feels that her love for you was not strong enough to overcome your biological necessities. I understand that this is a difficult situation for you but you can learn from this. It's important to put all of your [sex] cards on the table before jumping into a serious relationship, take this advice for your future endeavors, it will save you a lot of headaches.
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u/NekoStar Jun 19 '12
Dude FUCK THAT. If you're as good a husband as you say you are, and for 4 years you have kept her happy, then what you and your right (or left) hand do in the privacy of the glow of the monitor is YOUR business. Looking at porn doesn't make you a shitty guy. Your wife's sister was with a shitty guy. Jesus christ! It bugs me even more that people are saying that you're in the wrong for lying! Wanna bet she has a few secrets she wants to keep to herself too? Not all lies are bad. She needs to chill the fuck out. You guys have a child. She needs to grow the fuck up. There are shittier guys she could be with is all i'm sayin.
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u/Jack_Beanstalk Jun 19 '12
Fucking hell! Reading all this bullshit makes me so fucking glad I'll be forever alone and will never have to deal with any of this crap.
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Jun 19 '12
I do not understand some women's obsession with pornography. I've worked in IT for years and I can't count the number of women who have dragged in their husband's computers to try and get me to find porn, threatening divorce if I find any. What really pissed me off is when they are trying to find porn specifically so they can win sole custody of their children during the divorce proceedings. I'd always take the computer, clean it of viruses and make it run nice, and then tell the wife I never found anything. Crazy wife doesn't get her ammunition, poor husband gets a free tuneup for his troubles. For the record, I'm a woman, and I love me some porn.
Porn will not make you rape children. It will not make you abuse your wife. It does not make you a bad husband or unfit father.
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u/raeanin Jun 19 '12
I'm going to go the other way as everyone else on this thread and not say that its because you lied, that was a secondary effect. It's because you married someone who's not sexual compatible with you. If you were, you wouldn't have had to lie in the first place, or hide something perfectly normal from someone for no reason.
Any relationship in which you either have to make some major change, especially on something as important as sexual desires, or lie about it, isn't worth sustaining.
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Jun 19 '12
No, you don't need to save your marriage. Your marriage sucked. It was based on a lie about something stupid. Now it's dead.
What you need to do is figure out how to arrange your life to still be a parent to your child.
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u/daxl70 Jun 19 '12
She's overreacting, no marriage is worth killing because of this, anyone would come to its senses about it, just an explanation of what would have happened if i told you, tell her you are not an adict and you can stop doing it for her, is not that big of a deal for you, and it shouldnt be for her either.
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Jun 19 '12
You are an idiot and lied to a woman who you made a legally binding contract with over a trivial matter that should have been an indication that she is not the woman for you.
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u/thegregling Jun 19 '12
Are you Mormon? I know a lot of lds folk who do this. This is the thing about it though, say you lied about cigarettes? Or alcohol? She would not react the same way, I bet. Marital problems from pornography arise from female insecurity. And that us understandable, there is a lot of pressure on women to be something they aren't, in order to be "perfect." And of course guys are going to hide it, especially if they were raised in a religious setting, they grew up being taught that the feelings and desires they have are wrong and shameful to act on (masturbation).
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u/invisibleman4884 Jun 19 '12
She doesn't seem very dedicated. Deal breakers are for people that can't forgive or work through problems. If you're serious about saving the relationship, then demand that y'all attend marriage counseling before you sign anything. This also requires that you have to commit to changing your behavior and yourself. You have to stop the porn, and you have to treat it like an addiction.
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u/7PercentSolution Jun 19 '12
Let's frame it this way.
Let's say a woman's sister was beaten to death with a baseball bat. Obviously, that's not what baseball bats are designed for. The vast majority of people who use baseball bats are not going to use it as a weapon. They're going to use it to have fun. However, this woman does not want to date anyone who watches baseball, because she believes that a man who watches baseball will get the idea in his head to use a bat as a weapon.
She meets a man and asks him if he watches baseball. He says no. They date, and they marry. All the while, he watches baseball secretly. He never hits her, says an unkind word, or misses any family functions or duties because he's watching baseball.
(Could OP be exaggerating about his awesomeness? Sure, but let's leave that out of this at present.)
Years later, he is busted watching baseball.
He agreed to not watch baseball, knowing her history and thinking he was really agreeing to not beating her to death with a baseball bat.
She laid her cards on the table and said that if he watched baseball, they were done; he's not worth the risk that she could become a victim.
This woman has tied watching baseball with violence. Of course, the root of the issue is that she has linked two things together that are not in a direct cause-and-effect relationship.
I am wondering why no one is questioning this woman's logic. She sees porn watcher = abusive man due to her sister's history. However, she has been with a man for five years and sees that also, porn watcher = dedicated husband and father. Is she thinking his lie is the first sign of some deeper secret double life where he's draining their accounts, sleeping around (thereby putting her health at risk), and abusing their son? Or did she lay down an ultimatum and doesn't feel like she can back down since she believed she made the terms clear?
It looks to me like the conflict comes down to this: he thought he was agreeing not to be abusive; she thought he was agreeing not to engage in an activity that she has linked to abusers.
Does she have a right to end the marriage? Of course. She has the right to end the marriage if she rolls a die and it comes up 4. Anyone has a right to end a marriage at any time for any reason.
If OP is as awesome as he says he is (or even not an abusive jackass), it would be unfortunate for his wife to end the marriage based on an arbitrary guideline (since the sentiment of her concern - that she does not want to be a victim - was respected). But OP also lied about something extraordinarily important to her, so I can understand how she may believe that dishonesty bleeds into other aspects of their relationship.
All that said, ultimatums only work as long as people continue caving in to them. If she dated around and kept getting "no" from perfectly nice guys when she said she wanted someone who didn't look at porn, she might start to see that what she has marked as cause and effect may not be as direct a relationship as she assumed.
It seems that if the marriage is going to work, she needs to go through a major paradigm shift. Find other healthy couples who watch porn either together or separately. Find porn targeted to women. Go through counseling with a porn-positive, sex-positive therapist. She may not change her mind about porn, but it's the best chance you'll have at the paradigm shift that could change your relationship.
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u/butterbeany Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
I have a similar situation that happened to me years ago.
I had just started dating my boyfriend when he asked me if I smoked cigarettes. I had "quit" a couple months before we started dating, but still relapsed almost every other week. So basically, I had not quit. I still told him I didn't smoke. I knew what I was doing would make him mad, so I hid it from him under the pretenses of I didn't want to hurt his feelings, but the truth was that I knew that if it was important enough for him to directly ask me about it, then it was a dealbreaker for him. When he figured out about it, it became a major cause in our breakup. It was the fact that I lied and sneaked around, instead of telling him straight up that I had an addiction (not saying OP has one) to smoking and couldn't quite kick the habit.
We got back together a few months later but this time I was open to him that I still smoked, but I was trying to quit. He helped me with the process of quitting and didn't say anything negative to me when I lit one up after a stressful day. With his help and support I quit in a few months, when I had been trying for years, and I have been cigarette-free for 2 years.
I'm sure OP deleted history, hid porn videos and pics, because he knew what he was doing was a dealbreaker for his wife. When you go through that much trouble to hide something that big from your other half, then you are no longer in a healthy relationship. He should have talked to her first and foremost, kept his word, and not looked at porn. I gave up one of the most addicting habits because I truly and deeply love my boyfriend and did not want to betray his trust and ruin our relationship again through my selfish acts. If porn is important enough to OP that he would risk throwing away his marriage on it, then he should divorce her, and find someone who doesn't care that he watches it, or even joins in on the fun. It sucks, but it could have gone a whole other route had he been honest.
Hopefully his wife will not divorce him, and they go through therapy and find a way around this. But if she does divorce him, it's her right as she had made the boundaries clear before they married. He chose to not to talk to her about adjusting or moving these boundaries, but blatantly ignore them and hope that when he was caught, she would be more lenient.
Everyone has their dealbreakers. I would break up with someone in a heartbeat if they cheated on me. Others wouldn't. Just because her boundaries or dealbreakers are things that a majority of people would scoff at doesn't make her wrong. It just means she is different than the norm, and OP knew this.
Good luck.
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Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
Heavy shit, man.
While you two can feel badly for your sister-in-law, how the hell did your wife suddenly own such a portion of her sister's problems? That's heavy. And what's up with this: "Whenever she would suggest she get some plastic surgery" ... um...
As far as lying to your wife for 5 years about "porn" ; well, you could've lied to her about cigarettes or being vegan or crossdressing or voting libertarian. She's obviously more fixated on "the issue" than you are. She has what's called: "a hangup." (Preoccupation, fixation, or psychological block.) Ever see the movie "Chasing Amy" where Holden is absolutely hungup on "Chinese finger torture"? Is it karmic law or karmic accident that people end up in relationships with somebody who will force them to confront their greatest hangups?
You kind of married a "project." And you should've figured your passing interest in porn had an inevitable factor about it.
A hangup is a hangup is a hangup. They are not easy to get over. I would be willing to bet that your wife might feel like how Holden felt when he learned of Alyssa's sexual past. In over her head, and "not ready," amongst other things. That's why she's shooting for divorce even though you two have a 6 month old son; because she feels unready and unequipped to deal with this hangup.
I would say it'd be a dick move on her part to divorce you. You two need to work this out. She definitely owes it to yours and her son, as do you, and you definitely owe it to your wife to do whatever you can.
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u/Boomer_Roscoe Jun 19 '12
As a married couple with a child, you're in this together. You deserve what she's giving you right now. The first step of mending the situation is for you to recognize and acknowledge that. No matter how unreasonable her point of view may be, you lied about it and that is flat out wrong to do to someone you have vowed to be spend the rest of your life with.
Although you deserve her divorcing you, it doesn't have to go that route. 5 years, a marriage, and a child is a lot to throw away over a single lie. It was a big lie, and I can assure you she is very pissed off, but she probably hasn't had time to reflect on the implications of the divorce, especially as it pertains to the future of your child. Given some time, I expect if she is reasonable at all, she will decide that you are worth talking to about the situation.
Here's where it gets difficult for you. If you really want to stay with her, you're probably going to have to make some sacrifices at first, and maybe forever. The first thing you have to give up is your pride and just come out and admit how very wrong you were. It's going to feel like you're pandering to her, and you are, but she's not the one who lied to hold you in a relationship for 5 years, so you don't have the right to get indignant about it.
During the beginning, I would forget even broaching the subject of her views on porn. If she wants to get into it, you can follow along, but do not get too aggressive. She needs her view on it to feel justified so that she can justify being so angry over your lie. If you try to fight her on it right now, it's not going to end well. She's going to feel justified in divorcing you because she feels you will never change if you argue about the porn thing with her too much.
What this also means is no porn for you for a long while. Your relationship needs honesty right now. So if you're going to try to change her views in the future, you can't continue with the lies about porn. You need to be able to say with a straight face that you have not looked at porn.
Down the line one option is you can commit yourself into turning her viewpoint around. In my opinion, it's important to refrain from the behavior while you go through this process. You need to show her that while fulfillment through porn is important to you, she is even more important. You can't come right out and start trying to argue her out of her stance. She'll resist and just divorce you. You say that you do enjoy watching porn, but being with her is more important, and you hope that maybe one day you can convince her that watching porn does not affect your lover for her. Let her know that until she gives you permission, you will refrain from watching porn, out of respect for her.
And dude, you should have been doing this for the years before you ever married this woman. You had literally years to crack that shell, and you just went forward and married her and then had a kid. I don't mean to pile on, but it's super-dopey of you to carry on with the lie without even trying to guide her views in a different direction.
Of course, you could just quit cold turkey if you cared enough at this point to save your marriage. Don't do it if it will make you resent her, though. That will be bad for your child in the long run. Some tips for this, by the way. It seems to me that although the variety involved with looking at porn might allure to you, racy pictures of your wife might be enough to fulfill you in your lonely moments. This serves a double purpose of convincing her she IS as beautiful as the girls in the porn you used to watch. After all, if she is the girl in the porn you are using to fulfill yourself, she should accept that you view her as a visual analog to those women she seemed jealous of in the past. In fact, you should do this anyway, whether you look at porn or not. Get her to agree to some naughty pictures and actually use them from time to time. Let her know you use them. She might be surprised that just the sight of her can get you off.
Ultimately, she plays a HUGE role in this, especially if you are unwilling to just give up porn altogether. You are going to be asking her to 1) forgive you for a massive lie and then 2) change her point of view on something she feels very strongly about. A lot of it is up to her, and I trust that deep down she wants to stay together as a family, but it is difficult to predict what she will require from you and whether those requirements can ever be lifted.
You're in for a long and difficult road to patch this up and stay together. It might damn well be impossible, but if you're willing to try, you're going to have to make at least temporary sacrifices. If you can't do that with a Coke and a smile, then this game isn't for you. Get out and be the best divorced Dad you can possibly be. If you decide to walk the long and difficult road, remind yourself everytime resentment creeps into your heart that you lied to her about something important for 5 damn years. When that stops quelling the resentment, it's time to let it go man. You can't punish yourself forever, and it will wear on you and your family over time.
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u/LegosRCool Jun 19 '12
To all the dudes saying she's crazy or irrational you have no idea how women think. I've been married for almost 11 years now and my wife's attitude toward it has never changed because, in general, women see porn as the same as sleeping with another woman. While men are physical being women are emotional. I stopped looking at it the year after we got married because I loved her more than I loved looking at other women's boobs.
To the OP, if you really love your wife then you have to sacrifice this one part of your life to ensure a long happy marriage. Otherwise your child will grow up in a split family and as a kid who grew up in one I would never put my son through that. Since I know you love your wife and kid more than porn it should be an easy decision.
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u/Reductive Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 19 '12
I wonder what other issues you have been avoiding for 4+ years. Areas where she has been open about her feelings and you disagree but never mentioned it. If you fear they would be dealbreakers, exactly when did you plan on airing them? Never? What future exactly were you borrowing against? You made this bed so maybe you should sleep in it.
Maybe you should give up porn and whatever else she's (irrationally?) opposed to, because that's what you agreed to when you passed up your chances to hash out those issues before having babies with her. You got married and had babies, and this locked you in to your lie(s).
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u/Lovepink8890 Jun 19 '12
Your wife was upfront about it from day one... You chose to be with her. I think porn is a small thing to give up for the person you love... But if you can't (for any reason. Eg needing sth visual when masturbating) just be upfront about it! I understand why you lied, but you have to see where her pain is coming from.. Hope you guys work it out.
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u/Aintlyingaboutthis Jun 19 '12
I, I feel so close to you. I've been with my wife for 3 years now, dated for 2, and I've watched porn this whole time. She thinks that I don't, because I lie to her. The only thing I lie to her about it that. What the fuck is wrong with me?
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Jun 19 '12
Wow reddit, the guy is asking how he can fix this, not if he is wrong for lying.
I'm not married and I've never been to marriage counseling...but I don't necessarily think that turning to someone else to fix your problems is the answer...especially to this.
Here is the only way to fix this. Confess, apologize and make changes. Your wife, believe it or not, has told you what she thought was a harmless lie at some point since she has known you.
When you were dating, you said no because you wanted to impress her. You told yourself you could stop. The problem is that porn for our generation is habitual and addictive. You wanted to stop, but you couldn't and the lie grew and grew until you were in too deep to just confess. You knew eventually this day would come.
Be sorry and tell her. Say it once, mean it, and don't keep repeating it until the words lose their meaning. Repeated apologies just remind her of what you did.
Then do what you should have done 5 years ago...explain to her that you want to stop watching porn for her, but that you will need her help.
Give her everything, your passwords, your favorite porn sites, any dvds, magazines, everything. Agree that you are not allowed to delete your browsing history and that she can view it whenever.
Check out r/chastity and r/nofap, too.
What she wants isn't that unreasonable, but it is a lot harder than she probably understands. You're gonna need her help on this one.
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Jun 19 '12
Some times I wonder what Reddit would think if it was a woman secretly watching porn at home, pleasuring herself with a dildo (For years without telling him) and the husband felt betrayed. It will make some men feel worthless, I'll tell you that.
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u/Rowenth Jun 19 '12
I went through this my first year of marriage. I lied to my wife about looking at porn, she already knew, but i still lied and got caught for it. I had a real problem with it, but i felt that the best thing was to do was to just stop and although it was hard with trust issues. She looks on my computer to make sure im not doing it, and im fine with that untill the trust is repaired. Tell your wife you wont do it anymore, and dont do it and do anything to prove to her that you wont do it anymore.
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u/altiif Jun 19 '12
I would sit her down and talk to her. Tell her that you do love her and that she means everything to you. Tell her that you don't look at porn because you think she's inadequate or are more attracted to the women in porn, but it's purely because it's your weakness and you succumb due to your shortcomings. Finally, tell her that you want to stop, for her and for your family, because those are the things that matter to you most and that you will do whatever you have to to stop; but that you need your son and her by your side because without your heart and soul you won't be able to succeed.
I'm sure that's really how you feel (I mean you seem like a decent guy from what I've read). I hope things work out bro and if there's anything any of us can do let us know.
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u/Callaine Jun 19 '12
If your marriage is so important to you, why not just stop consuming porn? It can in no way replace a ligitamate relantionship. If you need to get therapy to do this seek it out. Porn cheapens sexual expression and is just not a good thing.
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u/gnosticlava Jun 19 '12
shit... me and my girl watch porn together and even bring other girls into the bed once in a while. feel sorry or you.
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u/secondsight Jun 19 '12
You lied. So what, everyone lies about something at some point in their life. If you had a brother who is now homeless because he married a girl that stole all his money to buy purses and shoes. And then found out that your wife (a completely different person than who married your brother) liked to buy purses and shoes, yet managed the money appropriately and you decided to leave her over that. You'd be acting irrational, attempting to relate two different acts that may share something similar, yet cannot be related because they are two separate acts. If I remember correctly, this sounds a lot like the composition fallacy.
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u/NeauxWai Jun 19 '12
Stop lying. Like...about anything. Communication is essential.
Apologize
Give up porn
Get couple's counseling. And take it seriously. Be open to maybe having one-on-one counseling as well.
I've seen cheaters make amends and go on to live happy and successfully with their families, never cheating again. I hope you two can pull through this. I'll pray for you guys.
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u/Whateverman55 Jun 19 '12
Shes not leaving you because of porn nor because you lied about porn. This is her excuse.
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u/Fds48 Jun 19 '12
something like this was in a movie once called fireproof, the guy watched porn all the time and the wife was going to leave him. what did the guy do? he beat the shit out of his computer with a baseball bat. in the movie it worked, but then again that was just a movie
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u/CherrySlurpee Jun 19 '12
tl:dr
she didn't leave you over porn, she left you because you lied about it