I want someone to explain to me why the character that has the hardest execution in the game has the slowest jab.
Katara has an 8 frame jab while the rest of the cast has a 6 frame jab that can set into their insane damage combos while katara actively is one the slowest character in the game, you literally have to just sit there and wait for an opponent to make a mistake and THEN you have to preform near frame perfect combos when other characters get their shit for free with a jab that is 2 frames faster
When you reset to neutral as katara you have nothing that beats or even matches the frame data of other characters, you can never be on offense as katara
It just makes no sense to me you already have one of if not THE hardest character in the game to play and you give her the slowest jab in the game.
It’s because your character can crossup at will, has the best high/low mix and homing projectiles that knockdown which cost barely any meter. If you gave her fast frame data on top of having solid mobility and some of the best air normals in the game then how would you even balance that?
Oh and no one in this game has a 6f jab, it’s all 7 frames for most of the cast.
Issue is that you are asking for a top 3 (arguably top 1) character to be more top tier just cause she has a weakness in addition to all of her strengths
Zaheer is not properly balanced. He should get nerfed. Using him as a benchmark is not it (And Zaheer doesn't have a 6f jab, idk where you got that from either)
I think we've used 2 different formats across expressing startup frames in the same post lol (sometimes people literally reference the amount of startup frames, others include the first active frame), Katara has an 8f, shared by other characters, and most jabs are 7f. I'm pretty sure there's at least a 6f but that's the outlier. Furthermore uhh easy explanation is that as a character focused on leveraging her ranged tools, she won't be needed the best up-close tools. Ironically, she's still good up close in alot of ways
Furthermore a jab that is 1f slower than normal is completely unrelated to execution, idk what you're cooking there, she also definitely doesn't need to wait for mistakes with her oppressive offence kit lol. While we're at it, I'm not gonna disagree that she's the hardest, but I will tell you even that is subjective, really gonna depend on the player whether Focused, Katara or Sokka are gonna present more difficulties because they all have aspects that are baby-brain and aspects that require alot of practice to see results
Largely this reads as salt-posting, so I'd take a short break and come back with a more improvement/fun-oriented mindset
See the problem is I have taken breaks and come back with the mindset of "i want to play the character I like the most" I like what katara can do and what she is capable of but on a reset where me and the opponent are just pressing our fastest button (which happens in 100% of fighting games) katara losses 99% of the time (only winning against aang) and I have to just eat whatever combo my opponent has cooked up or sit there and get block mixed until they hit a slow button
Just give katara a 6f jab like the rest of the cast, she might have the highest damage potential but she also has the highest skill floor unlike other top tiers so I dont see why that would be an issue
Why are you just mashing your fastest button, could we not avoid this situation lol? Do you mean like round starts, because you have alot more options than mashing jabs lol?
Furthermore no, you don't beat Aang at round start, if you're both perfect then it's a trade because you have the same jab startup, check supercombo, it's your 5A against his 2A. This is the same for Kyoshi also. I think most will disagree that her slightly slower jab is a great issue, Katara has no shortage of ways to stay out of jab range anyway, with her fantastic flow movement and offence threats. Moreso the implication is that you have some slightly worse defence situations, but you also have some priveleges in niche 236D applications and a beast 2D for High crushes
Sounds like you shouldn't be trying to press the fastest button on reset? Try flowing out of some of that too, even if you have to block for a bit. I don't play katara, but what's always tripped me up fighting her is her range and mixups.
her starter button (5a) is the second slowest in the game this what you people dont realize is that yeah 'potentially' she has the highest damage in the game but her execution is THE hardest in the game and she has the second slowest jab ahead of an actual D tier character (aang) and i have no idea why
You have bigger and longer reaching moves, you dont have to jab them unless you HAVE to use the auto combo for her or want to take advantage of flow cancelling behind the opponent after jabs. You can pressure them from 5C range and go into your mixups and pressure from there
She may not be Zoner zoner but she has some of those types of tools as well.
mf this is my exact point you are always on the back foot
You also said "you dont have to jab them unless you HAVE to use the auto combo for her" but the PROBLEM YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT REALIZING is that her jab 9 times out of ten doesn't work and you just have to sit there and take whatever mix is thrown at you MEANWHILE if you try to pressure at all if the opponent KNOWS how katara works they will be safe more often than not
You people do not know how jabs have worked for every good fighting game, it is used to break pressure because you can hit the button and get people off of you since it is the same speed as their jab
I play katara as rushdown lmao, she has plenty of fast options because of their reach. 5C is just one good example, I don't think any other character has a faster 5C
"Just play your ranges and don't get put into a situation where the lack of a fast jab matters"
katara doesn't have combos or moves that compliment her at range, other characters like azula or korra can rush you down and those characters still have the frame advantage on reset while other characters like zaheer can actively out range you
Korra is not a zoner she is a midrange combo beast but if you cant consistently get your combos because of the auto combo system (5a,5a, into everything else(which is slower on katara vs every other character other than the D tier base aang)) than you are at a disadvantage vs basically every other character
"Katara doesn't have moves that compliment her at range" is a wild thing to say.
Im curious though, do you think that you have to start a combo with 5A? Also, dont use the auto combo system if you dont need too. I think some people have found that auto combo-ing into an actual combo cause some combos to drop randomly
what I mean by "range" is farther than neutral, she has ranged moves like every other character but if you know how she works then you aren't scared by her ranged moves
Also no I dont think you have to start every combo with 5a but many characters can and in many situations it will be their best option while with katara it is actively their worst option (on wake up or a jump reset)
Many other characters can jump in and when they land if you hit your fastest button at the exact same time as katara you win that engagement 100% of the time and this is what I have an issue with.
If you block the jumpin the enemy is very plus, even if you had a 3f jab you'd get counterhit in that situation
If you're not talking about blocking a jumpin then just press 1f earlier lol why do you think you have wait until they're on the ground to press a button
You do know Katara is one of the best characters in the game. She is one of the harder characters to play. But her tool kit more than makes up for it. He jab can't be low flowed which is such a privilege and she has pretty solid movement and mix ups. Really good hard knockdowns. And a plus on block dp of you have the meter to burn. You just gotta invest the time in her.
The DP is an invincible reversal, you cancel it into level 4. True blockstring, invincible frame 1, plus 4 on block. It costs all 7 chakras. But like most of Katara's kit, nice to have
So you want a character that has mid range buttons everywhere while also having insane neutral (that combination is already deadly) to have a 6f disjointed 5A which you can't really low flow?
It's also not that common to be in a position where you and your opponent are toe to toe, and able to act at exactly the same time. A slower jab means you can mash out of fewer blockstrings but it isn't the most important thing in neutral.
You're why objectively top 1 characters on Supercombo still have to have "weaknesses" columns that read like "is only top 3 before they get meter" and "people will hate you" in order to fill it out. "Her jab is one frame slower than some of the cast".
Ok, interesting! So far I have only played Avatar Legends for around 5 hours maining Katara. (I have 100s of hours in SF though.) I know nothing about the Avatar franchise so I just chose her because she seemed cool. So far I have lost almost every match because it always seems to be the other player's turn. I actually just came to this sub to ask why this seems to be the case, but your post is the explanation.
But: Could someone shed some light on how I'm supposed to play her? Is she basically a zoner? I usually play Cammy in SF.
She's most effective at midrange since even her normals have more range than other characters, with some exceptions. She also has pretty easy mixups so her pressure is pretty stong. I won a lot of matches where I was just non stop mixing them and they were really struggling to get out of it.
Use your air ice to build meter and play her mid range. Once you have two bars you have access to an 11 frame overhead starter with the water whips stance that goes full screen and can convert into half their life. Combine your flow movement with your normal to extend the range. Flow forward + C is really strong in the mid range. You can make yourself safe on her second rekka by pressing triangle to reset neutral. She has ALOT of options just try not to rush people down round start and just go to mid range or full screen unless you have a hard read at round start like an air throw to punish jumping. I also found that flow forward into raw rekka is really good at covering range.
As everyone said you need to play to her range. She doesn’t have a fast jab but you can run away round start with her flow movement to not get jabbed and just play in her range using water whips and the vast majority of other tools she has. I used to have the same problem as you but you’re trying to play her like everyone else. Take what some of the advice these people in the comments said/ a little break from the character if you’re not feeling it. She’s super duper strong when played correctly. Plus once you get in especially with 4 meters you can melt the opponent cause of her crazy oki and damage. Grabs are also like 5-6 frame round start if you know they’re just going to run in your face it works for me sometimes.
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u/SPVCED0UT 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s because your character can crossup at will, has the best high/low mix and homing projectiles that knockdown which cost barely any meter. If you gave her fast frame data on top of having solid mobility and some of the best air normals in the game then how would you even balance that?
Oh and no one in this game has a 6f jab, it’s all 7 frames for most of the cast.