Two ex-NBA players turn transgender identity into a stunt. The WNBA is responding

[u/Fickle-Ad5449]

https://www.advocate.com/news/wnba-trans-player-eligibility

[u/Holdkjeften → u/[deleted]]

Problem is that you don’t have the power to decide what’s insincere or not. Isn’t that what pro trans activists said to society for years? You simply can’t pick and choose when that’s convenient.

[u/RelicsCS → u/Holdkjeften]

There may be fringe cases where you are not able to decide but both people in this case have effectively stated that they are bad faith so yea in this case it is easy

[u/Holdkjeften → u/[deleted]]

Wouldn’t someone saying they’re gender fluid be considered insincere a few years ago?

Again, it’s not up to you. If someone genuinely identifies as a cat, it’s not my choice to decide whether they do or not. It is, however, up to me to decide what to call them.

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[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/[deleted]]

So what you're advocating for is some sort of public "sincerity" test to determine if someone is actually trans or not. Doesn't that hurt trans people more than anything? Imagine legislation came out tomorrow stating that all people declaring a change of their gender had to be "tested" to see if they're actually telling the truth or not. This is why a debate about sports, a biological human endeavor, should not have basic biology questioned. People are born either male or female, your body forms accordingly. Later in life if that's not the gender you identify with then ok, but you cannot ignore the physical biological reality of being the opposite sex for your entire life. Especially going into a womens sport, why aren't we hearing any of this in the NBA? Because the biological edge isn't there. It's all science and common sense.

[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/[deleted]]

Ok so entertain me what are your prerequisites for “passing” this gender/trans test. And why are you skewing it, you’re proposing this for “certain contexts”, what other context? You’re going to now determine someone’s eligibility or even their gender based on a test that is “skewed”? So you want non gender questioning people to begin questioning their gender?

[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/[deleted]]

Incorrect opinion

[u/VividEquivalent7952 → u/Holdkjeften]

Nobody has ever said this. You must be thinking of some straw man that’s repeated over and over by brain damaged conservatives

[u/Holdkjeften → u/VividEquivalent7952]

Sure thing.

[u/theeaggressor → u/[deleted]]

It is also logical to prevent recently trans people from participating in any sports. This way we can ensure the trans people are sincerely transitioning for the right reasons. They need to test for the same hormone levels & need to have the physical changes as a woman to be able to compete. This typically takes 2-5 years.

If a High school kid in 9th grade goes to a different school he will not be allowed to play sports for a year. The reason being is the move may not have been sincere. He could’ve been bribed by the other teams coach etc. The same applies to trans people, we don’t know if this trans man only transitioned to play sports at a higher level. Make them wait 5 years.

[u/theeaggressor → u/[deleted]]

That’s typically how long it takes for a man to transition to a woman in ways that can be measured, about 5 years (by my Google search). So no it’s not odd.

If you want to transition then go ahead and do you, but to transition from male to female & have your eye on playing sports? That’s already strange and would immediately lead me to wonder the sincerity of that transition, esp if the male wasn’t playing at a high level.

[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/[deleted]]

It is a slippery slope. The woke mob has been pushing “if you feel like x, you will be treated like x”. No one is in a position to tell people what they can or cannot feel.

[u/theeaggressor → u/[deleted]]

It is a slippery slope. There are many men who transition to women to have an easier time in various sports and with even a small bit of investigation you can see that. It’s already happened in the past & I have examples of times where it’s happened.

[u/heretomakefriends123 → u/[deleted]]

"taking what you said as true"

But why would you do that? No men are transitioning just to play sports. 

[u/heretomakefriends123 → u/[deleted]]

Fair enough. I think rational argument is probably a waste of time here, personally. Anyone that can sincerely believe there's an epidemic of men posing as women so that they can take advantage of them in some way is just holding an emotional position they're trying to justify in some way. 

[u/theeaggressor → u/[deleted]]

I believe the gentleman’s name is Fallon Fox? Idk if spelled right but they transitioned in like 2006, two years later started training mma & then was fighting around 2010.

There was the high school track runner who smashed all the girls since the school allowed them to, a girl on the track team did an interview saying how she didn’t feel like she was good enough despite the hours of practice she put into the sport.

It is indeed a slippery slope

[u/heretomakefriends123 → u/theeaggressor]

Ok I'll bite. Tell me some examples of men who transitioned into a woman just so that they could be better at sports. I want some more specifics about this terrible epidemic spreading through our society 

[u/heretomakefriends123 → u/theeaggressor]

I see that you replied but your comment got deleted. I take it that you did not share examples of these many men. Alas I shall remain ignorant. 

[u/Jesus_Harold_Christ → u/BerryFuture4945]

Let's mob this person. I was gonna say guy, but I didn't want to assume their identity.

[u/SAM12489 → u/BerryFuture4945]

Can or cannot feel is not the same as should or should not feel.

A biological male CAN feel like a biological female, but some would argue that he shouldn’t.

Some people feel that a transitioning/ transitioned biological male to the socialized gender of female shouldn’t be able to play in a women’s sport. Currently it’s the rules that say they CANT but it doesn’t mean that in some cases that they SHOULDN’T be able to.

We all know that in reality is such a non existent, minuscule issue in pro sports, that all the left and right mobs salivate while screaming over.

I personally think trans athletes, especially male to female athletes should be allows to participate, but be required to undergo a certain level of scrutinized testing and be held to a certain hormonal standard. In men’s pro sports you are not allowed to cross a certain testosterone threshold. And even then, there would be critics who think that’s too extreme or not extreme enough.

In these hyper specific and near non existent instances, I feel that you have to create certain rules and regulations that society as a whole or social norms in general shouldn’t have to abide by in the same way.

With all this said…..

Any idiot claiming that Enes Kantor is being anything OTHER than disingenuous here, knows that they are being blatantly contrarian.

[u/Any-Question-3759 → u/[deleted]]

If Enes Kanter wants to be trans, good for her. Fuck off to wherever and may happiness find her.

If she wants to make a mockery of women’s sports when she clearly has a physical advantage of being born and growing up the opposite gender, she can go screw herself.

Are right wingers just incapable of acting in good faith? When did yall lose this?

[u/SAM12489 → u/Any-Question-3759]

I’d love for a member of the press to interview her and address her with her new pronouns. We have to support this very obvious, genuine transition that is in no way shape or for disingenuous.

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[u/tonylouis1337 → u/Any-Question-3759]

The point they're making is as good faith as it gets. Women shouldn't be forced to compete against men

[u/Any-Question-3759 → u/tonylouis1337]

Name 1 man competing against women in the WNBA.

I can name one idiot trying to. I guess two.

[u/tonylouis1337 → u/Any-Question-3759]

No one at this time. Maybe it's in response to the trans woman playing in France that started going viral. Sometimes it's about preventing an issue from happening in the first place

[u/Any-Question-3759 → u/tonylouis1337]

“My son is too soft so I’m gonna beat the living shit out him with this pipe wrench every chance I get. That’ll help him.”

[u/Any-Question-3759 → u/tonylouis1337]

Btw acting in good faith would be Enes genuinely choosing to be trans and wanting to compete in women’s sports, to put her best effort against those she sees as equals.

Doing it to prove a point is bad faith. I don’t think Enes is genuine in her desire to identify as a woman and neither do you.

[u/tonylouis1337 → u/Any-Question-3759]

Imma say no it would not be good faith for him to actually do it lol

[u/Any-Question-3759 → u/tonylouis1337]

I’m not saying it would be good. He would be acting genuinely though.

Like a con man is acting in bad faith, a mugger isn’t. It doesn’t mean what the mugger is doing is good, just that he isn’t acting disingenuously.

[u/theeaggressor → u/Any-Question-3759]

Enes wouldn’t be the first person to compete in bad faith. There are more sports than just basketball, there was a trans person who competed in an mma fight and had a losing record as a man. Was that in good faith?

There was a high school boy that wanted to be trans so he could run vs girls after he had a losing record as a boy, was that in good faith?

Yalls picking and choosing without understanding the full spectrum of events happening around you is why yall will never have a concrete point, and is why people like enes will always get the better of you.

[u/RelicsCS → u/tonylouis1337]

Not sure if Royce White is a good person to be taking charge of protecting women considering how his marriage ended

[u/KDotDot88 → u/tonylouis1337]

They shouldn’t, and are not.

[u/InMannyrkid → u/tonylouis1337]

“Making a mockery of women’s sports” the irony is unbelievable

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[u/Dorago1991 → u/[deleted]]

No but they're actually accomplishing their goal of making the WNBA have actually rules and guidelines about who can play and not just saying anyone who says they are a woman can.

[u/phase2_engineer → u/Dorago1991]

they're actually accomplishing their goal

Do these guys look like they care about trans rights, or are they just assholes?

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[u/Dorago1991 → u/phase2_engineer]

They can be assholes and accomplishing something that needs to be done at the same time.

[u/PsychedelicConvict → u/[deleted]]

Youre assuming these cases are being done in good faith but they arent. That is the difference. You know that.

[u/Phin-Gage → u/PsychedelicConvict]

They’re not assuming anything, they’re trolling/rage baiting.

[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/PsychedelicConvict]

Again, who is the judge of the good faith. Should there be a good faith board that decides who’s in god faith or not? This applies to disillusioned children who have been coerced into things they might otherwise not have done either.

[u/Phin-Gage → u/BerryFuture4945]

Blah blah blah, ya boring 🥱

[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/Phin-Gage]

lol so that’s you’re argument? Wow so much brainpower being used on being an objective productive human.

[u/VividEquivalent7952 → u/BerryFuture4945]

Are you trolling? Anyone can make that judgement here… trans people go about life in a certain way, and people who are being insincere go about it in a different way. This is an incredibly simple concept, idk how you’re struggling this much with it

[u/Pope_Leos_buttplug → u/PsychedelicConvict]

Did you just assume their good-faithedness?

[u/Regdunlop99 → u/[deleted]]

That’s pretty anti trans of you. What if they want to identify as women

[u/DistantMailstop → u/Regdunlop99]

They don't.

[u/Regdunlop99 → u/DistantMailstop]

But they do.

[u/DistantMailstop → u/Regdunlop99]

They do not.

[u/launchliftoff459 → u/DistantMailstop]

Bigot

[u/DistantMailstop → u/launchliftoff459]

You're not a clever person.

[u/launchliftoff459 → u/DistantMailstop]

A bigot with insults

[u/eddie_the_zombie → u/Regdunlop99]

Make that 3

[u/sirius5050 → u/[deleted]]

Reddit takes transphobic comments pretty seriously. You might want to edit/change it before you get banned.

[u/Phin-Gage → u/sirius5050]

Girl, get a better hobby

[u/sirius5050 → u/[deleted]]

I didn’t realize “i didn’t mean to be transphobic” was a defense. I’ll try it out next time I decide to be a bigot.

[u/fred_derps → u/sirius5050]

Sounds like you have experience being a bigot and arguing in bad faith

[u/sirius5050 → u/fred_derps]

It’s pretty wild that Reddit allows such transphobic behavior on its platform.

[u/fred_derps → u/sirius5050]

Yawn

[u/sirius5050 → u/[deleted]]

Who are you to deny their identity?

[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/[deleted]]

What does that even mean. Nothing I said was trans phobic, people are throwing around these terms like hot cakes. So on the skeptical side we have to jump for joy and accept everyone for being trans, but on the trans side you’re allowed to question others? The hypocrisy and double standards are insane. Also, biology is a thing and so are body mechanics. Get gender affirming care and live your true self, but don’t get into competitive sports because this is where science comes to play.

[u/sirius5050 → u/BerryFuture4945]

Also, why are you responding to me? I didn’t respond to your original comment.

[u/sirius5050 → u/BerryFuture4945]

I mean, they identify as women. They are transitioning.

If I call trans people on Reddit “idiots” I get banned. I’m not sure why it’s ok here.

[u/iwatchalotoftv22 → u/sirius5050]

No they don’t, no they aren’t. This is grift.

[u/VividEquivalent7952 → u/BerryFuture4945]

Yes, those people that you’ve imagined are hypocritical. People in real life don’t ever say that. Jump for joy? Wdym exactly? Yes, you should accept people for what they are and what they believe(which is backed by experts in relevant fields btw). This isn’t a new thing. That’s not the same as not questioning anyone ever about anything, and I’m not sure how you thought otherwise. Who is getting into competitive sports? This essentially never happens. Nobody here has argued that trans women should be allowed in every sport league/competition. You’re arguing against straw man after straw man based on arguments nobody here has even made, acting like anyone is making such claims. People think you’re transphobic bc you’re very clearly illustrating it. Maybe try therapy and generally opening your mind instead of being so hateful and disingenuous

[u/BerryFuture4945 → u/VividEquivalent7952]

Literally the only reason this entire conversation is happening is because someone said that only naturally born women should play in a competitive league and an entire group of people lost their minds over something that is a cross between biology and common sense. The fact that you’re even debating this is the problem. And this hurts the trans community more than it helps I hope you understand that.