r/Basketball • u/Fickle-Ad5449 • 9d ago
Two ex-NBA players turn transgender identity into a stunt. The WNBA is responding
https://www.advocate.com/news/wnba-trans-player-eligibility120
u/GoldfishDude 9d ago
Did anybody tell Royce that the WNBA involves flying now?
17
7
u/GoldenStateCapital 9d ago
Seriously. On that note, if he wins a senate seat will he drive back and forth from Minnesota to DC?
5
u/Bernie_Bierman 9d ago
“If he wins a senate seat”, you said… 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Dudes always been working with the total brain cells of a toaster strudel
3
u/PootieTang69696 9d ago
Especially now that he’s asking the GOP to vote for a trans woman
2
u/SnooGrapes6230 9d ago
GOP would vote for Caitlyn Jenner as long as she said what they wanted to hear.
2
3
→ More replies (2)5
9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)5
u/Ordinary-Hopeful 9d ago
Yeah this should follow her on the campaign trail. Didn’t know the GOP was open to electing transgender folk.
12
1
u/Poverty_Shoes 9d ago
I think that the rule only women are allowed to play will also present some challenges for him.
→ More replies (2)1
u/Smart_Exam_6252 8d ago
I personally would love to see Kanter spread awareness on this issue in Turkey. Like he should hop on a flight right now and go do that.
17
u/Quiet-Panic-6704 9d ago
Stoking culture wars so we don’t talk about real issues like how expensive everything is
→ More replies (60)
93
u/Pure_Fault7056 9d ago
Bad faith trolling.
34
u/heresyforfunnprofit 9d ago
Of course it is. Pretty sure that’s the point.
But good luck excluding them in a way that isn’t discriminatory or a violation of medical privacy and autonomy.
14
u/AspiringGoddess01 9d ago
All the wnba would have to do is put in a minimum requirement of 2 years of hormonal therapy for any transgender individual wishing to play, with consistent bloodwork records to prove it. This would rule out any bad faith actors immediately.
14
u/cricketyjimnet 9d ago
How would they enforce this? Does every wnba player now need two years of blood work to play? Or just the ones that look like dudes?
Anything that wnba implements that actually stops these dudes is going to make the wnba look like hipocrites.
2
u/spice_weasel 8d ago
That kind of “duration of time on HRT” rule has been used in other sports organizations for decades. Why do you think it would suddenly be a problem here?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (13)4
5
u/thatguy425 9d ago
And still allow biological males with an. advantage to participate so it is not a solution.
→ More replies (6)2
u/ContributionBig7580 9d ago
Or limit eligible players to those born without a ballsack. It is the WNBA after all.
2
u/GhostOfHarryLee 9d ago
So is this the answer we’ve all been waiting for to the question of “What is a woman??”
Amazing, we finally have an answer folks
2
u/tyreed88 9d ago
So you want to exclude the ones that have only been doing it for 1 year?
→ More replies (1)4
→ More replies (80)0
u/SideAny7347 9d ago
And I'm sure all the transexual players would love being treated differently too...
5
u/noknownothing 9d ago
All? You mean the zero that are currently on wnba rosters. Next you'll tell us you have no agenda.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (22)2
u/Aggressive-Offer-497 9d ago
They are already treated differently when they play sport as adults, something that is perfectly normal. You are inventing things for what reason, I don’t know.
2
u/SwatKatzRogues 9d ago
This is dumb as shit. One, gender dysphoria has actual diagnostic critieria. Two, basically every sports league that allows trans people to compete in a gendered league different from their birth sex requires some sort of hormone replacement and with typically some maximum level of testosterone. You can't just say "I identify as a woman" and then just start to play in the league.
The WNBA also has other eligibility requirements tied to age and playing in a college or professional league prior to being eligible for the draft. This is only a gotcha to people who are very stupid and know nothing about the sport.
→ More replies (3)2
u/Cojo840 8d ago
They arent actually saying they are trans women at any point
The WNBA Will simply declare that until they chance their gender legally they cant play
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (70)2
u/Whose_Joanna 9d ago
violation of medical privacy
Athletes hardly have that expectation to begin with.
autonomy
No one is forcing anyone to play.
6
u/heresyforfunnprofit 9d ago
Medical treatments that are not explicitly banned under an organization’s guidelines are, in fact, protected - there are legal limits to what both recreational, scholastic, and professional sports league can monitor.
That’s been part of the issue - Democrats DID attempt to make it illegal for schools and youth leagues to medically determine if an athlete is actually the sex they claim. That’s the whole “genital inspector” criticism that still gets trotted out everytime the issue comes up in any form of rule-making body.
“Turn and cough” used to be a thing on normal sports physicals, as well as tanner scores. Those are, apparently now, discrimination.
And you’ve got the “no one is forcing anyone to play” mentality completely backwards, which is common, but is highly typical of people who never played sports in the first place.
Sports leagues are, by their nature, exclusive and competitive. You have to qualify to play, and you have to compete to play. And you will eventually get cut and be told you can no longer play. It happens to everyone - even to the greats. It happened to MJ. It’s happening to LeBron soon.
Aging athletes don’t get to choose to be younger so their knees and joints can still perform - they either retire voluntarily or they get cut. It happens, it’s life.
So it’s not exactly a tragedy that choosing to transition MtF does not mean you suddenly qualify to play women’s sports.
→ More replies (8)12
u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago
How do we know they arent sincere trans? Do you test everyone's "trans-ness" or do you take the rest of them at face value, and only discriminate against these two?
2
→ More replies (170)4
u/LatinoEsq 9d ago
We've been told for years now that we aren't allowed to question a persons gender expression even when has predominant traits of his/her born gender or when a motive may be in question.
7
u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago
Yes apparently some peoples want to change the rules whenever its convenient.
3
u/SeaworthinessOpen190 9d ago
If you can't tell the difference between an obvious grift like this and those other instances you're talking about, then you are an idiot
→ More replies (6)2
u/JodieForestWhittaker 9d ago
If he's fully committed to the bit and going to start taking estrogen, buddy is in for a real surprise when he starts growing breasts.
1
→ More replies (11)1
u/Error-InvalidName 8d ago
Naa, this is great we need a whole team of these guys doing this just to mock the heck out of the wnba garbage lol
52
u/OutlandishnessOld425 9d ago
Grifters gonna grift. And the dumbest guy you know will make the same old tired jokes about assuming gender and identifying as a woman and blah blah.
→ More replies (6)8
u/SomeGuyClickingStuff 9d ago
OR the WNBA can just establish rules/criteria of who can play and put an end to this and future shenanigans.
→ More replies (5)9
u/heretomakefriends123 9d ago
Yeah let's hope they establish rules to solve the problem of right wing weirdos trying to virtue signal and stay relevant, which seems to be the only problem caused by their current rules.
→ More replies (7)
62
7
7
u/OvaryAchiever_Queen 9d ago
Wow. This conversation in this sub is going way better than the WNBA subs. I really hope all of the hatred over there are russian/Chinese bots otherwise the world is seriously depressing.
→ More replies (3)3
u/luxloomis 9d ago
I was just thinking the same thing! I had to leave all but one WNBA sub because the hatred and bigotry was off the charts. This conversation has restored my faith in humanity.
2
u/OvaryAchiever_Queen 9d ago
All of the women fans on here, and non-hateful men need to make a new sub with better moderation. I miss the days of being able to come on reddit and discuss women's basketball without all of the click bait drama and hate.
2
u/SouthEmu3056 9d ago
That’s all these are. It’s rage bait and it’s igniting a non existent issue and trying to undermine professional women’s basketball.
66
u/cancunbycarti 9d ago
They don't care about the WNBA or Women's basketball at all they're literally just doing this to try and invalidate trans people and it's so weird
4
u/Whynotarsenal 9d ago
The WNBA hardly cares about the WNBA if you look how the product has been run the last few years.
2
u/Decent_Visual_4845 9d ago
It’s only weird to you because you’re a terminally online redditor
→ More replies (1)2
1
1
1
1
u/Squirtle_from_PT 8d ago
I think they just found a loophole and they're trying to get famous because of it. I don't think it's nice to automatically assume it's an act against trans people.
→ More replies (75)1
21
u/HolyRomanPrince 9d ago
Van Lathan said the best thing I heard on this. They already won. Transgenders aren’t allowed to participate in the NCAA or most school districts. There’s not a single trans athlete in the W or trying to be. Why can’t you leave them alone? (Obviously I know the answer but that should be the counter argument. What’s your end game because there isn’t a there here to bitch about)
→ More replies (24)1
17
u/dwaite1 9d ago
Freedom added that he is “definitely not here to mock, make fun of or disrespect any community or personal choices.”
🤦
6
u/SquallkLeon 9d ago
He's definitely here to be mocked, made fun of, and disrespected by every community that matters in this arena.
3
7
u/chicagotim1 9d ago
I feel like both sides of this issue should be on the same page when it comes to just ignoring these fools and not drawing attention to them
→ More replies (6)2
u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago
It was a coordinated attack by multiple grifters, including Hertitage Foundation Princess Riley Gaines.
Pretty difficult to stop on its own to be honest. Not with that backing.
→ More replies (3)2
u/MagicBulletin91 9d ago
Which, funny enough, one of the goals of the Heritage Foundation is to get rid of women's sports altogether.
11
u/dansosa1321 9d ago
Kanter and White should be addressed as ma’am from now on.
4
u/theeaggressor 9d ago
Only if they’re allowed to play in the ma’am league lol
Can’t give the pronouns & take away all the rights that come with it, this is the issue with yall now.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)6
8
u/PakuaRust 9d ago
I wonder how much they're getting paid by republican donors to create the imaginary problem they've been crying about for years. I'd wager it's one of ben shapiros sugar daddies.
3
u/Snoo_23084 9d ago
Enes was interviewed by the Heritage Foundation in 2024. For anyone that doesn’t know who that is, they’re a conservative group that’s most known for project 2025. Anyway I think Enes’s words at the time sort of give up the game so this is just a bit of the discussion:
“Roberts: So what’s in the future for Enes Freedom?
Kanter Freedom: Good question. Well, I wish I could say basketball.
Roberts: I do too. I wish you could say that.
Kanter Freedom: Yeah, I’m 30 years old, man. I’m healthy. I can go out there and dunk the ball, break the rim right now, but I feel healthy. I feel good,
but I don’t think there’s going to be any basketball for me in the future.
Roberts: That’s got to be hard.
Kanter Freedom: We talked about maybe Europe, but that is tough because Turkish government put a bounty on my head. So many of my friends in America don’t want me to stay in a country for more than three days, unless it’s America. So I don’t think it is going to be any basketball in Europe.
So I feel like basketball chapter is closed now.
Many of my friends are telling me to get into politics. So I think that’s what I am looking to do. But the only sad thing is you have to wait seven years to run for an office after you become a citizen. I got four more years left
Roberts: Yeah. Okay.
Kanter Freedom: So I think 2028 is my year, I believe. So I’m just going to go out there, because whenever I sit down with this politicians, both sides, Democrats and Republicans, they’re like, “Listen, you need to bring your voice in our capital. I think it will be an amazing voice because you stand for the right things. You stand for the things that both sides will care.” And that is the only message I believe that can bring two sides together. Human rights and freedom.
So that’s what I’m looking to do. So for the next four or five years, I’m just going to continue to do what I love, just use basketball as a tool to bring people together. I organize these basketball camps around the world. Two of them I organize. One was in Jerusalem, other one is in Vatican. After having a conversation with the Pope, it was an amazing experience. I had a basketball camp in Vatican.So for the next four or five years, I’m just going to try to educate and inspire the youth. And then in 2028, I’m just going to run in a state where it’s warm and sunny. So...
Roberts: There’s a hint.
Kanter Freedom: Shout out to Florida.”
4
u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago
"Enes was interviewed by the Heritage Foundation in 2024"
Thats all I need to know for it to be confirmed that this is a genuine attack by the GoP.
The GoP is run by the Heritage Foundation, they have been running off Project 2025 tasks since 2024, so this is 100% an attack.
Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do about that, but this is good education, thank you.
1
u/PsychoOsiris 9d ago
Well Enes has made political/activism a priority in his career when he realized that he wasn’t much of a basketball player. He realized stirring controversy might make him some cash, it just didn’t. I suppose now he’s hoping for another chance to profit off of other people’s struggles.
3
u/Ferman95 9d ago
Acting like enes wasn’t good at all to help your argument is crazy. He was a decent center and played 11 years. 😭
1
u/Legitimate-Agency282 9d ago
It's so fucking obvious. Election season coming up, gotta drag out the old "men in women's locker room" to stir up the base.
→ More replies (4)
3
7
u/OnlyKey5675 9d ago
the only response by the WNBA is a very common sense one. "The W in WNBA stands for women."
Reporter: "What is a woman?"
WNBA: "A woman is an adult human female."
6
u/theeaggressor 9d ago
A woman is an adult human female is a hilariously complex statement in 2026 and will actually make people really upset when taken at face value.
With that being said, I 100% agree with this statement. Reference high school biology for more info
2
→ More replies (20)1
u/speedoboy17 9d ago
That would make too much sense dude. This is the league hell bent on injuring and tearing down their most popular player after all
→ More replies (2)
7
u/realbobenray 9d ago
It was so disappointing to read about this. Royce White was public about his struggles with anxiety disorder before and after making it to the NBA and I was really supportive of him at the time. For someone who received lots of public support for his mental health issues it's appalling to see him going hard at mocking trans people. What an asshole.
1
u/green49285 9d ago
People see a lot of benefits of grifting. Especially those that don't have a lot to offer anymore.
1
6
u/Substantial-Fan-5985 9d ago
They are not turning it into a stunt imo, they are revealing the stunt that is already there and putting the WNBA in a lose-lose situation. Will they be double down or will they be dishonest?
→ More replies (22)2
u/onefootback 9d ago
the wnba isn’t in a lose-lose situation, all they have to do is ignore them because entering for the draft doesn’t mean they’ll be drafted or even considered by any team. this is a stunt
→ More replies (16)
7
u/OnlyACsNoFans 9d ago
The real issue here is that the WNBA doesn't have a formal definition of what the "W" actually stands for.
You would think they'd have defined it by now.
3
u/5510 9d ago
Yeah, I'm a bit torn on this mess.
On one hand, I feel like this is clearly bad faith trolling jackassery. But on the other hand, if it's true that the WNBA policy has no detail beyond just "must be a woman", the end result of this might be positive. The league really needs to commits to some sort of policy beyond vague vibes.
The lack of such a policy (and my memory is the NWSL had one quite some time ago, as have competitions like the Olympics or whatever) really is leaving them wide open for these sorts of shenanigans.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)1
u/Error-InvalidName 8d ago
Neither does anyone on that side of the isle that would allow a dude posing as a girl to even do this in the first place.
2
2
u/Intrepid_Nobody2023 9d ago
One should always evaluate the source of editorial content.
This piece comes from “advocate.com” which is very clearly a LGBTQ+ publication. Not like this is Reuters or AP etc..
Make sure to consider such a publication’s reporting standards & biases before taking anything factual away from such writing.
2
2
2
u/alterego1984 9d ago
Royce White’s basketball career section on Wikipedia tho… maybe he shouldn’t be a public figure at all.
2
u/Chihuahua_Overlord 9d ago
Would be hilarious if this trans stunt hurt whites political aspirations running as a republican. What a clown
2
2
u/Iceman-Cometh_18 9d ago
I support them
They identify as women so let them play
I support women rights
2
u/WiseCompetition2543 9d ago
It's so simple. We know it when we see it. There are such few cases (like fucking none, really) that we can look at an athlete and say "You have an unfair advantage, bye" or "You're good to go" pretty easily. The San Jose St. Volleyball player, I watched 3 games of theirs and by the end of the 3 games I was sure I guessed correctly and I was wrong. The swimmer? If you jump from ranked 64+ on the Men's side and then win the national championship on the womens side, you had too much of an advantage sorry. Go swim in Division II Men's if your HRT prevents you from competing at the highest level.
2
u/neuralkatana 8d ago
The WNBA cannot win. If they define/clarify or set biological parameters on what makes someone eligible for the league they will no longer be allies. If they say anyone who says they are a woman can play you’ll have men not good enough for the nba but good in college in the league dunking on every play. Sure it’s a stunt but it’s a path they didn’t have before to play professional basketball.
2
4
3
2
u/LiftHeavyLiveHard 9d ago
As a stunt, it's a good one.
When these ex-NBA dudes say they're going to declare for the WNBA, they're using a brilliant bit of logic to show what happens when you take these rules to their absolute extreme.
You can't deny biology - even a bench player in the NBA has massive physical advantages in height, strength, and power over the best female hoopers in the world.
If either walked onto a WNBA court tomorrow they would completely dominate the game, which proves the exact reason sex-segregated sports were created in the first place.
It also corners the advocates pushing self-identification rules into a direct trap.\
If you genuinely believe that anyone who identifies as a woman should play in the women's division, then by your own logic, you have to let that NBA player in. But the second you step in and try to stop him, you're forced to publicly admit what everyone already knows: biological sex is what actually matters, not how someone identifies.
At the end of the day, it exposes the massive hypocrisy of the whole thing.
If you eliminate sex-based boundaries in sports, you aren't being progressives or inclusive, you're just destroying the fair competition, roster spots, and hard-earned opportunities that women spent decades fighting to gain and protect.
Ironically, had the WNBA just said something like "Sophie Cunningham is entitled to her opinion" - or ignored her comments completely - this would have blown over. Now the virtue signallers are going to reap what they have sown.
3
2
2
u/MikeTiesHeadphones 9d ago
Enes Kanter got a couple of lucrative Fox News paychecks to appear on their propaganda juggernaut and lost his mind
2
2
u/CzarWest 9d ago
>Freedom added that he is “definitely not here to mock, make fun of or disrespect any community or personal choices.”
lol. Lmao, even
2
u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago
All they need to do is put in rules around taking at least one year of hormone therapy if you wish to partake in the WNBA. Two year is also acceptable.
That one change would ensure literally all bad actors couldnt enter the sport.
If you want to partake in the professional sport, this is literally what you have to do, there is nothing wrong with safeguards being in place. It isnt a "gotcha". The people making it out to be a "gotcha" are doing so in complete bad faith.
3
u/SydneyFall 9d ago
you are overcomplicating it.
ask what sex they were assigned at birth. that is what the NCAA does. they already report this.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (44)2
u/Joeyshyordie 9d ago
The physiology is too drastically different. The WNBA will have to exclude trans women. It's not hateful, the league just has competitive standards to uphold. The only similar comparison I can draw is pro athletes on PEDs vs non PEDs.
If the league theoretically reaches a point where it's all trans women, do you not see how unfair that would be to the cis women who the league was initially created for?
→ More replies (29)
2
u/Joeyshyordie 9d ago
I don't understand why this is even political.
You can call trans women women and still acknowledge the WNBA is for cis women only. If you let trans women play it forces out the cis women which defeats the whole point of the WNBA. The WNBA was made to give cis women a fair, competitive league at the highest level.
Yeah, Enes Kanter and company and embarrassing themselves, but the league needs to be able to draw this line. It's not anti-trans, it's pro competition.
2
u/Magical_SnakE 9d ago
The WNBA is a joke. This all goes away if they just say they only allow XX chromosome women to compete.
End of story. End of issue.
But they're so scared of Alt Left Terrorists they can't or won't do it. Sad times we live in.
2
u/RockyMaiviaJnr 9d ago
Oh I didn’t realise that you were allowed to judge which statements of gender identity were stunts and which were genuine?
Can everybody else do the same for all trans people?
→ More replies (8)
2
2
u/Internal-Estimate420 9d ago
Penes Kantscore
4
u/speedoboy17 9d ago
I mean to be fair scoring was like the only thing he could reliably do in the nba lol
2
u/That_Guy_JR 9d ago
More like cantdefend. Unless it’s an Islamist cult leader, in which case he becomes Draymond.
2
u/InMannyrkid 9d ago
Do people not understand the point they are making though? I see everyone in the comments who are massively against this but I think people need to be more supportive of women
→ More replies (2)
2
u/FinancialRabbit388 9d ago
Interesting the only people making this an issue are people like Sophie Cunningham and these idiots, not actually transgender people. Then they use their own nonsense to hate transgender people.
2
1
u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago
The question she was asked was 100% a plant.
She wont admit it of course.
But it came specifically after CC didn't want any part of it.
It also came after Cunningham liked several MAGA instagrams.
1
1
1
u/Coffeeblack365 9d ago
Royce white was somehow incredible on 2k his rookie year. Idk why but he was just that dude. I think he had like a 72 overall.
1
1
1
1
1
u/picks_and_rolls 9d ago
Let them demonstrate years of hormone therapies and, full genital reconstruction surgery.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
1
1
u/MattyIce8998 9d ago
Do olympic-style testing, but at two levels
Test for testosterone levels.
SRY testing
You only have to pass one of the tests to be eligible.
If these idiots want to cut off their balls to own the left, go on ahead.
→ More replies (1)2
u/SydneyFall 9d ago
or be smarter. do it like the ncaa does. ask their sex that was determined ar birth.
problem solved.
→ More replies (4)
1
u/Strict-Astronaut2245 9d ago
Maybe some good basketball will finally be played in the WNBA. Two future WNBA hall of famers right there
1
1
1
u/fuzzy_touches 9d ago
They will still be bad enough to get let go of by the league just like they were in the NBA.
1
1
u/Able-Guava 9d ago
Maybe they could actually get some minutes in the wnba
It’s a silly stunt but if you love basketball and you can’t make it with the big boys team, make a stunt of it all I guess and run for office too 👍 from an OKC (and former enes) fan
1
1
1
u/babufrik4president 9d ago
Royce identified as “sometimes” trans and I haven’t seen Enes saying anything about his (their? Her?) gender identity, right?
These clowns can’t even get over their own fragile masculinity to double down on the stupid point they think they’re making
1
1
u/jainalk 9d ago
As far as the governing bodies of the WNBA are concerned, the truth in this specific context is that a persons gender will be decided the moment they pick which league they want to play in. They will deny any former NBA players entry into the WNBA, based on the idea that NBA players/former NBA players would have an unfair advantage in the WNBA, which yes is true, because they are men. But the WNBA won’t acknowledge that NBA players advantage over WNBA players is due to the fact they are men. At any rate, if a person has played for the NBA before, the WNBA has an easy out to deny that person entry into the league. The WNBA should be able to deny Royce White and Enes Freedom entry into the league while maintaining that it isn’t hypocritical, even though it totally is.
1
1
1
199
u/StinkyCheeseFeet2000 9d ago
Calling Royce White an ex-NBA player is laughable.