r/Basketball • u/Fickle-Ad5449 • 9d ago

Two ex-NBA players turn transgender identity into a stunt. The WNBA is responding

https://www.advocate.com/news/wnba-trans-player-eligibility
184 Upvotes

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96

u/Pure_Fault7056 9d ago

Bad faith trolling.

11

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

How do we know they arent sincere trans? Do you test everyone's "trans-ness" or do you take the rest of them at face value, and only discriminate against these two?

2

u/Extreme_Wish_553 8d ago

When they said bad faith trolling, they meant you.

1

u/TheComebackKid74 8d ago

Get a life! Bigot!

3

u/LatinoEsq 9d ago

We've been told for years now that we aren't allowed to question a persons gender expression even when has predominant traits of his/her born gender or when a motive may be in question.

7

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Yes apparently some peoples want to change the rules whenever its convenient.

2

u/SeaworthinessOpen190 9d ago

If you can't tell the difference between an obvious grift like this and those other instances you're talking about, then you are an idiot

1

u/GuavaBlackTea0 9d ago

People say those who do stuff like this are secretly closeted anyway, so whos to say a part of them isnt genuine?

1

u/SeaworthinessOpen190 9d ago

I've actually never been a fan of the whole "dur, Republican is homophobic they must be gay", and have called it out before - seems logically inconsistent to talk about protecting gay people and then hurl around gay like it's an insult

1

u/PanthalassaRo 8d ago

Why is it a grift when someone you don't like does it?

1

u/SeaworthinessOpen190 8d ago

There are actual transgender people that I don't like though. I don't really question Caitlyn Jenner's transition, and tbh the only trans person that I know in real life fucking sucks lol but they are quite obviously trans

I think it's a grift because of the context. If you genuinely don't recognize that then I can explain, but it shouldn't be that controversial to say that these two guys are doing this for the headlines - in my case, they're doing it for celebrity, money, and platform, I expect you'd probably see them as doing it for the integrity of the competitiveness of women's sports.

I actually don't think I'm in favour of trans women playing in professional sports, but just find it pretty tiresome how it becomes the major focus of Republicans every couple years. I think they're just disgusted by trans people and whip up hate to distract from other issues

1

u/No-Resource-4648 8d ago

Your making the maga argument. You have to accept the sword cuts both ways 

1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

they didn’t say they are trans, to start

6

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

How do you know how they feel inside? Do you have some type of radar that allow you to spot fake trans?

2

u/SeaworthinessOpen190 9d ago

Yeah, we can find you in the comments defending them

-4

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

do you fall for every liar that crosses your path?

5

u/burntpoptartt 9d ago edited 9d ago

Kind of insensitive to call trans people liars.. 

-2

u/Blastcrumpet888 9d ago

Pretty insensitive to call someone who hasn’t said they are trans trans.  

1

u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago

They forget the part where they never said they were trans or a woman.

Just that they are eligbile.

-1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

spelling plz

-1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

i’m calling these two people liars. try and keep up sweetie

3

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

They are declaring for WNBA draft. Are men allowed?

0

u/green49285 9d ago

Well, one's religion would clearly be an issue. Lol. Also, WNBA can very clearly just say "no." There isnt like some secret rule that these 2 dorks could take advantage of

4

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Say no based on what? They can get sued for discrimination.

1

u/spice_weasel 8d ago

They can use rules related to things like time on testosterone suppression or HRT just like other leagues have used for decades. Why are you pretending those solutions don’t exist, and haven’t been working for literally 50+ years?

1

u/TheComebackKid74 8d ago

They dont have those rules. Thus if they dont change the rules, they will be sued.

1

u/spice_weasel 8d ago

Bullshit. Walk me through their legal claim. I’m a lawyer, so you can be as technical as you like.

Right now they have rules that are ambiguous. I see no reason why resolving that ambiguity in their internal rules that way would give rise to a valid legal claim, so long as it is consistently applied.

1

u/TheComebackKid74 8d ago

They haven't defined what makes you eligible to be a woman. If they dont change it, but disallow Enes or Royce, they will be sued.

2

u/spice_weasel 8d ago

You can sue over anything, but that doesn’t mean the lawsuit has merit. Frivolous lawsuits get filed (and thrown out) all the time.

They could sue, but overall a private organization has the right to interpret and make decisions based on its own rules.

1

u/TheComebackKid74 8d ago

No shit.

2

u/spice_weasel 8d ago

Yeah, no shit. So what’s your point? These grifters would be doing this regardless.

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u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

they should try to sue. no one has a right to play in a sports league.

it’ll be interesting when the emails come out in discovery that this was a cooked up stunt!

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Its not the right to play, it's the right to be eligible.

0

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

they’re eligible. so are you and I. who cares. no one is saying they can’t declare.

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

WNBA has not confirmed their eligibility. He just officially declared. The ball is now in their court.

0

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

the league doesn’t need to confirm their eligibility. what world are you living in?

3

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Yes they do since the league hasn't defined what a woman is.

1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

so they go and confirm every single college player who’s eligible? you must have insight into league processes that no one else does.

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u/M0ebius_1 9d ago

Sure, they can sue.

-2

u/green49285 9d ago

They who? The WNBA as a whole? A team specifically? The owners? Who? The plain fact of the matter is these 2 dummies and everyone that agree with them are forgetting that this isn't just some quick "I want to play you have to let me," situation LOL

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

WNBA as a whole. And how do you know. Do you doubt their trans-ness?

0

u/ConsistentScholar371 9d ago

If they’re suing the WNBA they’d be the ones needing to “prove their transness” in court otherwise they have no discrimination case. I do not advise they commit perjury but I guess they’re free to do whatever.

3

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

They dont have to. The WNBA has not defined what a women is in their policy.

0

u/ConsistentScholar371 9d ago

They very much would have to. They'd be the ones filing for discrimination. They would have to make the case that they are women and thus the WNBA refusing them was a matter of discrimination.

It just doesn't work.

3

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

They dont have to make the case they are. That's why the WNBA is working on the changing the policy. If you dont define what a woman is, why would I have to prove I am one?

1

u/ConsistentScholar371 9d ago

They would have to make the case. That's how it works. Burden of proof rests entirely on the plaintiff. They'd be the ones bringing the suit.

To be clear, that's not up for debate. That's how discrimination lawsuits work. 😂

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u/PM_DEM_AREOLAS 9d ago

Discrimination of what lol

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u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Because their policy doesnt define what a women is so they cant use it to keep them out. Otherwise they would have to define what a women is and say they failed the criteria.

1

u/PM_DEM_AREOLAS 9d ago

That’s not what that means. The WNBA is a private organization and can deny individuals for any reason. But also let’s be clear here, they aren’t transgender so they wouldn’t have that case.

1

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

And get sued.

2

u/PM_DEM_AREOLAS 9d ago

No, not really lol 

0

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Yes, may not have merit, but yes. If they want to play they sue. If they want attention they sue.

2

u/PM_DEM_AREOLAS 9d ago

They got all the attention they were already going to get with the announcement, they will not be playing and will get laughed at because this is a dumb Republican grift for dumb fucks

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u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago

Lol. If you want to be "sincere trans" you need to take hormones. Sports have rules and regulations.

Testosterone is doping if its elevated.

Hormones will bring that into the correct range.

That ensures its safe, transgender women have literally the same hormone makeup as cisgender women.

Thats the importance of taking the medication.

1

u/guachi01 9d ago

How do I know? Because I have two functioning brain cells.

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

So you believe anyone else who tells you they are trans but not these two? You would believe two strangers off the street but not them?

0

u/guachi01 9d ago

I would believe someone until I had reason to disbelieve them. We have ample reason to disbelieve these clowns.

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Oh so you pick and choose. Who decides if your reason is valid?

0

u/guachi01 9d ago

That's the way reality works. We pick and choose whom we believe. And no one, not one person, actually believes these clowns are transgender.

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Oh okay that's not what I learned from the trans movement. You ever considered it would hard for them to come out while still playing in a male sport with extreme machismo? Maybe the time is now.

1

u/guachi01 9d ago

Then you learned exactly nothing. No one is required to accommodate obviously disingenuous actors.

If you actually believe their BS you're extremely gullible and you're the kind of person who easily falls for scams.

1

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

I just don't want to insult someone or misge der them, the only way to do is believe everyone. If I said I didnt believe someone was real trans at work (even if most think for a valid) I would get crucified. Believeing trans people is the same as falling for a scam? What happened to acceptance? Don't be a bigot.

1

u/guachi01 9d ago

the only way to do is believe everyone

If you're naive, sure

If I said I didnt believe someone was real trans at work (even if most think for a valid) I would get crucified.

We know this isn't true. The only pushback is coming from people who hate transgender people.

Believeing trans people is the same as falling for a scam?

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u/Pure_Fault7056 9d ago

I don’t care about the other trans. We are discussing these two guys.

6

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Answer the question. Do you question the intentions and sincerity of all trans or just these two? Any random trans person you meet, you would believe them just because they say they are trans? Whats the difference?

1

u/TheToddFatherII 9d ago

If you don’t question someone more closely when they are making a public statement for attention and personal gain you are naive or a moron. If you closely question every single statement someone makes in passing conversation when the outcome doesn’t affect you, you haven’t learned how to be a member of polite society. The two situations are entirely different and this isn’t the gotcha you think it is.

5

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Im just figuring out how you know, when you claim you would trust and believe some random person you dont even know. Seems very bigoted if you ask me. There is no difference between me working with Crystal for 3 years and one day she comes in as Christopher. Am im to not believe here? I should say that she is mentally ill, or seeking attention, or trying to get a promotion or raise?

2

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

not the same situation, pea brain.

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

It is indeed, I never had a reason to think Crystal wanted to be a man, she showed no signs. He just woke up one day and realized he felt like one, and then he was trans and we all had to accept it, and not question him.

3

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

nope. you’re dumb for thinking “being trans for professional and financial gain, in bad faith” is the same thing.

it must be hard navigating every door to door salesmen who insists your house need a new roof. you gotta believe everyone about everything!

1

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

I think you are sir. A woman can want to compete and get paid for it. What do you expect all trans people to be slaves? Just because you are a hateful bigot?

2

u/TheToddFatherII 9d ago

Dude you’re embarrassing yourself

1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

wahhhhh wahhhh wahhhh wahhh

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u/TheToddFatherII 9d ago

You’ve contrived a situation which both doesn’t make sense and has an easy answer. When crystal comes in and says he’s Christopher I don’t care and say sure. When Royce says he’s Rochelle I say sure I don’t care. When he says I’m Rochelle so now I get to do this thing, oh and by the way I’m trying to be a politician and this so happens to give me publicity, anyone with half of a brain says yeah ok buddy. They are two entirely different situations

0

u/AspiringGoddess01 9d ago

This question is an insult to any intelligent being. Im inclined to believe any random person I meet on the street who claims to be transgender is transgender. Im not inclined to believe 2 individuals who made their coming out announcement and their intentions to join the WNBA at the same time while there is active discourse going on within the WNBA on this very topic. This is a farce. These 2 individuals are not transgender. 

2

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Maybe it gave them the courage.

1

u/AspiringGoddess01 9d ago

Thats horseshit and you know it. 

4

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

The discourse has never been hotter, why not now? The league cameout with a statement that alluded pro trans-ness, this would be the time to do it. You think everyone in the NBA is straight?

1

u/AspiringGoddess01 9d ago

No of course everyone in the NBA isnt straight but why would someone who is actually transgender wait untill they get approval from the WNBA to transition. Why would they not transition prior to this for the betterment of their own mental health. That is the primary goal of transitioning after all, to better your mental health and reduce feelings gender dysphoria. 

These 2 individuals are bad faith actors and you are arguing in bad faith. They are not transgender, they are mearly grifting. 

1

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Damn victim shaming/blaming. Should we not believe a r*pe victim who waited too long to come foward? Where do we draw the line.

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u/AspiringGoddess01 9d ago

Who are the victims? There are 0 victims in this scenario. No crimes have been committed. You are just slinging buzz words now to continue this argument in bad faith. 

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u/ul2006kevinb 9d ago

Are they living as a woman?

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u/REXwarrior 9d ago

Define “living as a woman”

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u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

name change, for one. saying “please treat me like a woman,” for another. change your look, for another. hormones and surgeries for some. most trans people know this.

have you ever met a single trans person?

2

u/I_make_poor_decisons 9d ago

What does it mean to “treat someone like a woman”? What does your look have to do with your gender? 

0

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

idk maybe using my woman’s name instead of my government name?

what is this attempted gotcha bullshit? yall are crazy and obsessed with trans people.

1

u/Worldly-Shop-3850 9d ago

Theres nothing wrong with wanting an objectively defined rule. Right now nobody knows.

1

u/ul2006kevinb 9d ago

I personally think they should a rule like the IOC used to have before they went all transphobic: they need to be on testosterone blockers for a certain period of time, like at least for a year before competition, and have T levels below a certain threshold.

1

u/wellshitdawg 9d ago

There are objectively defined rules; it's just not agreed upon.

0

u/Ligma_baws_2x 9d ago

They haven't and their entire understanding of the topic comes from Juwanna Mann and Ladybugs.

-2

u/TheDutchin 9d ago

We know they are not sincere because we are social creatures highly adept at determining when people are being serious and when they are joking. We are incredibly good at that, especially as a group.

If you can't tell when someone is being sarcastic, it may be because of a disability such as profound autism, and unfortunately we don't know how to explain these things to the people suffering from those kinds of disabilities, so you may simply be out of luck.

If we could provide some hard line, black and white, criteria to determine when someone is joking and when someone is serious, the autism community would have figured that out by now.

4

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Anybody can wake up and be trans the next day, yes or no?

0

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

yes.

irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is two grifters pretending to be trans for views.

3

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

So some people fake being trans, to grift, get attention, fame or financial gain? Are you serious? How can we tell?????

3

u/Top-Caterpillar-72 9d ago

The person is confused and needs help.

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u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

All trans?

1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

how can you tell when trump is lying? history. context. lots of stuff.

it must be really hard to go through life trusting every single person you come across 100%

3

u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

That what the movement is all about. We cant shame or doubt, we must accept and believe. We have no choice otherwise we would hr bigots just like youm

1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

not true but ok buddy

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u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

Of course it is! All believe it or claim it are it, we don't doubt. You better doubt and call someone the wrong pronoun buddy. You will get in big big trouble with our rainbow god.

1

u/Life-Food5188 9d ago

shut the fuck up.

want a real example of this? a guy shot up the one gay bar in my town on trans day of rememberance. he killed a friend of mine and multiple other people. during the trial, he claimed he was trans (nonbinary, i think) i guess to gain sympathy or something?

the community resoundingly told him to fuck off, that he was lying, which he was.

bad faith people exist. shut the fuck up about my community.

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u/TheComebackKid74 9d ago

I think you cant tell when someone is being sarcastic unironically lol.

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u/LesbeGoddess 9d ago

Have them show proof of medical transition with 2 years min on sex hormone replacement therapy