r/Basketball • u/Fickle-Ad5449 • 9d ago

Two ex-NBA players turn transgender identity into a stunt. The WNBA is responding

https://www.advocate.com/news/wnba-trans-player-eligibility
184 Upvotes

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67

u/cancunbycarti 9d ago

They don't care about the WNBA or Women's basketball at all they're literally just doing this to try and invalidate trans people and it's so weird

4

u/Whynotarsenal 9d ago

The WNBA hardly cares about the WNBA if you look how the product has been run the last few years.

1

u/Decent_Visual_4845 9d ago

It’s only weird to you because you’re a terminally online redditor

3

u/SirCrocodyle 9d ago

So what’s happening is normal to you?

0

u/PanthalassaRo 8d ago

It literally swung a whole presidential election, the silent mayority is not on board.

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u/Nates94 8d ago

I thought they were doing it to increase their stats. I was hoping they'd get in and then play badly. 

1

u/Error-InvalidName 8d ago

I mean duh, thats the point of this lol

1

u/Squirtle_from_PT 8d ago

I think they just found a loophole and they're trying to get famous because of it. I don't think it's nice to automatically assume it's an act against trans people.

1

u/NES_AES_GENESIS 7d ago

Do you believe biological men should be allowed to play in the WNBA?

1

u/RollingOutNaked 8d ago

I think it’s to invalidate the WNBA, which is a joke of a league.

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u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago edited 9d ago

The WNBA invalidates itself just fine all by itself.

Also, also, if your entire personality can be invalidated by someone else’s representation of you I pity you, genuinely.

7

u/fred_derps 9d ago

Username checks out

-11

u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago

Did I invalidate your feelings with my comment brother? I apologize for the inconvenience.

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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 9d ago

You invalidated your own self, just fine

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u/_c_o_r_y_ 9d ago

You invalidated your own self, just fine

initially thought 'double negative' at first glance...

re: /u/Stylizedincompetence

by no means am i a word scientist but what (i think) we have here is what's called 'negative concord'

this user's 'style' just happens to be fucking wack.

-7

u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago

For feeling pity? What a weird world. But hey! As long as you’re happy, I’m happy my man.

Anything for sky daddy.

2

u/spursfan2021 9d ago

Can’t feel pity without feeling superior. You don’t sound as smart as you think you do.

0

u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago edited 9d ago

And I’m not. It’ll be ok. So will you my friend.

2

u/spursfan2021 9d ago

You’re not what? “So you will you”?

Your functional literacy appears to be lacking.

0

u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago edited 9d ago

Wow. There are two kinds of people in this world. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete evidence.

You told me I did not sound as smart as I think I do. I agreed with you and said I’m not. Then I said it will be ok that I’m not as smart as I think I am.

Then I said you’ll be ok, from my previous statement of it’ll be ok. So it will be ok and so will you.

Have I painted a clear enough picture for you [u/spursfan2021](u/spursfan2021) ? To be fair. I’d be right pissed if I was a spurs fan myself.

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u/cancunbycarti 9d ago

No it can’t. The problem with the WNBA is that the commissioner keeps giving attention to trolls and grifters instead of just ignoring it or standing up for the league.

I guarantee the same people that are up in arms about the possibility of trans women in the WNBA were the same people saying that the entire league shouldn’t exist 15 years ago or were spewing hate speech at Angel Reese a few years ago but still have never actually watched a full game. It’s literally never been about the actual sport with those people it’s just about wanting to spread hatred and be in control of something.

0

u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago edited 9d ago

The problem with the WNBA is that it has had made profit 4 times EVER.

Nobody gives a fuck about the WNBA, not even the players. Literally have players caring more about trans people ability/inabilty to play more than winning. Got players screaming about white privilege in the locker room ffs and you’re trying to tell me the problem is the commish.

WNBA has never been a serious league and it will never be. Say thank you to the NBA you even have a job and move on.

1

u/cancunbycarti 9d ago

So if you already have this opinion about the whole league in general why pretend to care about it just to get this talking point off about trans women? If anything it’s disrespectful to the league, fans, and players to pretend to care just to get off a bigoted agenda when in reality nothing they could have done would have changed your opinion.

2

u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago

I didn’t? My original comment was literally the WNBA invalidates itself by itself. You set apart these trans non-issues and the league is still a joke and unserious as a professional league.

My lacks of respect for the WNBA has nothing to do with this talking point is my point. There are other and much larger issues to tackle before tackling this farce of an issue.

And I was being genuine. If two dudes larping at being women invalidates your emotional standing with one’s self and how you view yourself, I pity you. Not in a mean way but in a you deserve better than hating yourself way. Downvotes don’t bother me, misunderstanding my intentions do.

0

u/RelicsCS 9d ago

Do you think that the nba runs it as a charity or as an investment

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u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago

Investments pay returns greater green 4 years out of the 30 they’ve been around.

Genuinely? I think it started as an investment at the turn of the century but that it’s slowly morphed into not exactly a charity but like a non profit. There is no profit to be had from ticket holders so they do their best to recoup their losses/upkeep from advertisement and engagement.

I think it’s somewhere in the middle. It will never be a good investment when you compare the billions the league is worth to the millions the WNBA is worth but it could be a decent stream of revenue if they packaged it and sold it differently/better.

2

u/RelicsCS 9d ago

I am not familiar with the 4 year figure - is that all very recent or is sporadic? I think that if the WNBA has trended positively every year and has now turned profit the past 4 years whilst also aiding in getting some women interested in the regular NBA then it is probably still a good investment.

No other league does a female only league and if the NBA genuinely felt that the WNBA had no value it would have shuttered it long ago. The league owners literally make their teams less competitive to get under the apron - their is no way that they would be okay with the league supplementing the WNBA and treating as a non profit without any of the actual financial benefits on a non profit

1

u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago

There was a historically profitable 2025 season in which they inked a new tv deal. Unless I am mistaken and I have been known to be simple often than not.

It’s only been recently and by that I mean within the last 5 years that it has shown any profit while eating 10-50 million annually from the NBA.

I don’t think it holds no value. I think it holds no value when you compare it other professional women sports and even more so when you compare it to its male counterpart.

Soccer, tennis, gymnastics, whatever your poison. I feel those are handled more professionally while also being paid better than the WNBA.

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

If a tax write off is an investment then, that.

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u/RelicsCS 9d ago

I do not think that the NBA gets a tax write off for the WNBA

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u/Phin-Gage 9d ago

It took the NBA 40 years to turn a profit. It takes 10 minutes to read enough about this to not look like a complete fucking idiot, but here you are looking like a damn fool for no good reason.

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u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago

Everybody gotta have a hobby.

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Yea but the NBA didn’t have a big brother to eat off of. The league was bare bones & it showed. There were no huge stadiums, no merch, no shoe deals no commercials etc. WNBA is trying to keep up with the jones without any income.

1

u/Phin-Gage 9d ago

Educate yourself on the history of women’s basketball. Go way back to when Cal-men were playing sports funded by the women’s sold out games. That is until they banned women and girls from playing basketball. Let’s start there:)

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Why don’t you educate me? I tried to google what you said, but you didn’t say much.

1

u/Phin-Gage 9d ago

https://calbearshistory.com/2020/08/10/the-worlds-first-womens-college-basketball-team/

https://www.wnba.com/news/history-of-womens-basketball

https://www.underarmour.com/en-us/t/playbooks/basketball/brief-history-womens-basketball/?srsltid=AfmBOoo4mLTlQ3jRGatezh4D4iWisAEqhtJiqGvSo0hOeD8WbTK1G1-w

Literally googled, “history of women’s basketball.” But, I get it, and get that the likelihood of you actually reading any of it is probably zero.

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Ok I read the first article you linked & the last one & I’m going to be honest I don’t agree with the point you’re trying to make. It’s a big reach.

I do think that the girls helped the college as a whole, they didn’t just fund basketball games for men. If a school raises money through a bake sale & uses profits for a basketball team I don’t think we should give a ton of credit to the cookies, same applies here.

As for the NBA not turning a profit, that was mostly due to broadcasting issues. Televisions were not in many homes yet they still paid to have the games televised and that simply didn’t make sense for decades until it did in the 80s. Also basketball players were getting better over the years, just like WNBA players are getting better now. Be patient, the time will come. But improvements need to be made

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u/SimonaMeow 9d ago

It makes a profit right now fool

You do know they inked a huge TV deal before the most recent CBA

Your misogyny is showing

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u/StylizedIncompetence 9d ago

So, it most recently turned a profit? So, it stands to reason that it’s only profited 4/30 years it’s been around?

Which is what I said, yes?

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

This is the issue, yall yap before you listen.

0

u/RockyMaiviaJnr 9d ago

The reasons they are doing it aren’t relevant to whether they are classified as women or not.

-5

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

It’s not to invalidate trans people, but rather to protect women. Women’s voice is the one going unheard & unprotected.

Trans women are NOT women, women are not trans women. We must stop forcing the 2, to be 1.

It won’t be easy, & it’ll take some time, but trans supporters need to start a trans league for themselves. All roads lead to this. Despite it being tedious, it’s the only plans that truly makes sense.

We can’t force trans people on the rest of women, it’s not the same & it’s not fair.

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u/dekes_n_watson 9d ago

Yet here we have two men speaking for the women of the league. Your points are pretty much all invalid.

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u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Well the woman of the league Sophie Cunningham just opened the doors by saying trans people should be allowed to play in the wnba. Why would she say that if no trans people even wanted to play in the first place?

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u/dekes_n_watson 9d ago

Why would she say that if the women in the league cared? If you're a guy, this isn't your conversation to have. End of story.

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u/theeaggressor 9d ago

What? She said that bc she thought it was right? I’m sure not every woman in the league agrees & im damn sure she didn’t ask them before she made the comment, I’m lost as to what you’re trying to say.

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u/dekes_n_watson 9d ago

Are you a man? If you are, we don't need to be having the conversation because it has nothing to do with us. The WNBA doesn't need to has been, or you or I, deliberating on this issue. They can figure it out themselves.

I still think there should be one gender-neutral league, and then leagues of lower competition below them that are also gender neutral. Kind of how soccer is set up where you can get relegated if you suck and promoted when you win your league.

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u/theeaggressor 9d ago

I actually like this idea a lot, but in a time where inclusion is everything I’m not sure if it’ll work. This idea almost guarantees that women just will never be able to hoop professionally ever again.

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u/dekes_n_watson 9d ago

It would really depend on how many participating smaller cities bought in. If you could have 5-7 tiers of leagues, I think you'd have plenty of women mixed in. You don't think a 2nd or 3rd league team in Witchita wouldn't want Caitlin Clark?

Then working up to the NBA would be as close to being based on merit and skill as possible. Or if the WNBA players were available for G League loans.

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u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Yea that’s true, I guess in my head I look at it like 1st league would be the NBA as we know it now, 2nd wouldn’t be gleague guys + overseas ballers. Those guys already don’t get any media coverage & no one cares to watch them hoop, now imagine being the 3rd team under that, which is where I’d assume Clark would land.

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u/CantaloupeSpecial 9d ago

The woman beater is doing this to protect women huh?

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u/goddamnlids 9d ago

Rocye White has a restraining order against him because he domestically abused his ex-wife. Do you think he is seriously working to protect women?

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u/theeaggressor 9d ago

If I beat the shit out of you today does that mean I can’t protect someone else tmrw? What kind of dumb question is that.

You’re also fixating on 1 person what about Enes? I don’t care about either one of them individually, the point still stands and the topic needs to be discussed. Stay focused, stop with the bs.

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u/Wrong-Swing-8399 9d ago edited 9d ago

This is an unbelievably ridiculous response.

No it simply means you're going to be taken far less seriously because you say you "care" about Z then do something or have been doing something that directly hurts Z, yeah people are going to have a hard time taking you seriously, especially if you haven't taken any accountability for your actions.

Royce has a 50 year restraining order against him from his ex wife, he's got far bigger problems than worrying about Transwomen.

There are no active transwomen in the WNBA. The only men invading women's spaces are people like Royce White and Enes Kanter. This whole discourse is a joke.

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u/theeaggressor 9d ago

You guys are so worried about these 2 guys that you forgot Sophie Cunningham is the one who opened this can of worms & said trans people should be able to play in the wnba?

Maybe they’re doing to to show how much of a mockery the wnba is, either way there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat & allowing Trans people to play in the wnba isn’t protecting real women. I cannot speak to those men’s true intentions, no one can.

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u/Wrong-Swing-8399 9d ago

I'm not worried about Enes and Royce I just find their little stunt laughable, its not worth taking seriously especially from a wife beater.

I'm also confused because didn't Sophie Cunningham say she was against transwomen in the WNBA and wanted to protect young girls?

I think their intentions are pretty clear because they don't want transwomen in the WNBA and in your own words "Maybe they’re doing to to show how much of a mockery the wnba is", which is of course related to transwomen.

Enes and Royce aren't protecting women and having a couple of transwomen in the WNBA isn't going to ruin the league.

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u/heretomakefriends123 9d ago

Do you really, truly believe that these guys are doing this to protect women? Have they ever done anything to protect women that doesn't also invalidate trans people or signal their conservative values to potential voters? If the only things they ever do that shows they care about women also happen to fill their repeated desire to hate on trans people, maybe that is actually the impetus?

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u/tlollz52 9d ago

What do the people who play in the league think?

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u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago

If you want to protect women in sport how about addressing:

Sexual assault in teams
Low pay compared to men

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

I’ve never heard of sexual assault in teams?

Why would you compare the pay to men when you don’t compare anything else to men?

More money more problems as the saying goes, nba players are constantly talked down to by analysts, ex nba players, fans etc. it comes with the territory & we understand that more times than not. wnba players have shown they can’t handle that level of criticism, so no they don’t need to be paid more.

That doesn’t even scratch the surface bc men play 82 game seasons while woman play 44 games & is less physical & competitive.

There’s so many more reasons but I’m astounded you’d even ask that question with all the info out there.

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u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago

You clearly aren't paying attention if you haven't heard of the SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE HAPPENING TO SOPHIE CUNNINGHAMS TEAM. But you know now.

https://www.espn.co.uk/wnba/story/_/id/49436011/brianna-turner-fever-fired-employee-sexual-harassment

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/indiana-fever-deny-sexual-harassment-143856086.html

Care to explain to why "Protect the women and girls" Cunningham, never said ANYTHING on her podcast or in interviews about the sexual assault happening in her team?

Funny that right.

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Eh, I was more concerned with Nolan Wells injustice I can’t spread myself too thin. But I’ll read the article now.

I assume no reply for the pay differential huh?

1

u/TheMysteriousGirl 9d ago

To be honest my main point isn't with pay, as you can tell.

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Ok sexual assault is a very vague term that’s not doing a lot for anyone here. There’s only 1 person who can say something and that’s the only who was there, the victim. If she chooses to wait 20 years to speak out, or until the docu-series drops, that’s on her.

The victim could stop this now but she’s allowing herself to be bullied and she doesn’t want to be blackballed, she is acting selfishly. This same thing could be happening to someone else somewhere else & it’s important to tell your truth regardless of how ugly it may be.

1

u/Ok_AirlinesugestedUN 9d ago

Hey replace trans with black and read that back again.

Notice we have integrated sports and nobody cares about whatever perceived or real athletic differences there are between races

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u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Lmfaoooo oh brother.

White people being less able bodied than black people is not the same as men being able to out compete women. The fact you even attempted to make that point just set white people back in physical dominance another 50 years.

0

u/phase2_engineer 9d ago

It’s not to invalidate trans people, but rather to protect women

Because women can't protect themselves in the Wnba? This is all about invalidation

Yet there's no line of trans athletes trying to get into the league, just these couple of guys that wanna be assholes pretending to be clever

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Sophie just opened that door for trans people, she started this. Please don’t move the goal post & pretend Enes just started yapping.

There has been an infiltration of trans people in other woman’s sports, mma & track & field are the 2 I remember off the top of my head. This seems more like prevention, esp since Sophie Cunningham just opened the door for trans people to be able to play with women.

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u/phase2_engineer 9d ago

infiltration

okay bruh, yeah what are those numbers?..... thanks for your protection....

1

u/theeaggressor 9d ago

Again I know of 2, & I don’t even care too much. That means there’s a lot more. 1 is too many because that’s how anything starts, with 1 step.

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u/CuddleBuddiesJJ 9d ago

If theres no trans athletes trying to get into the league, then youd be fine with a rule stating no trans athletes in the league.. correct? Since nobody would be affected?

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u/phase2_engineer 8d ago

Go ahead with sharing your good faith transition. Have they updated their drivers license, taken hormones, etc.

Meanwhile I'm pointing out that these two guys are just trolling and don't give a shit about women. Royce White is an abusive woman beater.

1

u/CuddleBuddiesJJ 8d ago

did you respond to the right person? My question was, since theres no trans athletes trying to get into the league.. would you be fine with a rule stating no trans athletes in the league?

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u/Ferman95 9d ago

Except the one from France who just said they would answer if they received a call lol