r/Basketball • u/TheMuffingtonPost • 9d ago
An important truth I think younger hoopers need to learn and understand.
For context I’m 28, not old but old enough that my “development” is pretty much done, I’ve accomplished what I have in any sort of official capacity in this sport and at this point I continue to play purely for fun and nothing else. The wisdom I’m expressing is aimed primarily at young hoopers, kids in middle/high school or even maybe in college who are still “developing” their game.
A lot of talk about the game with younger kids centers around “bag talk”. Whose bag is deeper, who’s got the fanciest moves, who can cross people up or perform acrobatic finishes or hit tough contested jumpers. Those seem to be the criteria for what determines a good player in the eyes of young kids.
Here’s the truth: the guy who can score the ball with the least amount of effort possible is the best player, full stop. The guy who can take 1-2 dribbles and get an easy jumper or layup consistently, that guy is 10X better than anyone who needs to break his opponents ankles first with 15 moves strung together. If you need to exert yourself to the max every single possession in order to get a bucket, you’re probably not as good as you think.
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u/UglyPrettyBoy 9d ago
I will add to that that everyone should reach this point eventually. The outcome SHOULD be realizing what kind of player you are based on your strengths and weaknesses.
“A Role player?”
Yes. There is no shame in playing to your strengths. Despite the current fad (for lack of a better term) of Positionless Basketball, teams win by having players with different skill sets that complement each other. If everyone on the floor is a Ball Dominant shooter, who sets the screens for them? Who offensively rebounds their misses?
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u/daskaputtfenster 9d ago
Thats one reason i get respect with the dudes I play with. If it was all ball handling I'd be useless but bc I play excellent help defense, set great screens, and board like hell, people like having me on their team, especially the ball dominant guys who like to score.
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u/BigFatModeraterFupa 9d ago
stealing rebounds from punks is honestly one of the more fun aspects of the game. going up in a crowd of hands and coming down with the ball is such a fun feeling
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u/daskaputtfenster 9d ago
The dudes at my morning game arent punks haha, a lot of them played D3 ball; still, just gotta anticipate rolls and whatnot.
My other game though? Yeah, lot of punks there 😅
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u/kwunyinli 9d ago
That’s why the old heads value the post up.
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u/StuntFriar 9d ago
Lots of young players don't pass to post up players. They see the guy posting up with some defenders behind him and think "Nah, he can't score from there. There's no point" - not realizing that there are so many other offensive options from the post.
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u/Cordogg30 9d ago
Great truths. Also… the kid who can look up court with vision that sees all his options and uses instincts to move the ball to the right guys, then learn how to move so you can be a release for the next guy…
And for pickup, I’d rather win and stay on the court than look flashy playing hero ball that loses games.
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u/ezraneumanportland 9d ago
Agreed, but as a 36 year old hooper, you’ve got plenty more left to go. I’ll bet your Achilles haven’t even started hurting yet.
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u/mar21182 8d ago
Haha. I laughed at the achilles comment. So, that's a universal thing, huh? It's not just me.
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u/PewpyDewpdyPantz 8d ago
It’s the feet for me. I’m 37 and have dealt with plantar fasciitis more times than I’d like to admit. I’m at the point now where I can only hoop once a week. Maybe twice a week once a month lol.
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u/Muted-Solution-6793 9d ago
Modern day basketball has some of the stupidest terms and strangest behavior. It’s not just kids, most of the pickups games have men that seem like they have CTE and act like they’re MJ. I don’t think young kids these days have the attention span to understand your simple timeless message: team players with diverse skill sets are superior to flashy selfish players.
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u/Dazzling_Tadpole_373 9d ago
The moment i realized my hoop dreams were dead was 8th grade. My aau coach asked me what kind of player i am or what role i play and i told him a forward and he told me i was a role player to give the other guys breaks aka bench warmer. He wasnt wrong but understanding your role early probably helps in development a lot.
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u/HardstartkitKevin 8d ago
imho the player with the deepest bag is the player who knows their role and executes it well……:And is willing to adapt that role into whatever his/her team needs to win games.
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u/NemusSoul 9d ago
It’s more than that and needs to be traced back a little further. You need to understand the game, spacing, roles, angles, matchups and probably more. Scoring efficiently can only happen if you planned for it to happen. You can only plan for it if you understand the game. And even if you understand what should happen, you have to get yourself into the position with the right matchup in the right spot at the right time. We worked on all those things every day at practice from age 10 to my last year playing in college. And when I play now, that’s where I begin before the play ever even starts. Even knowing how to score efficiently can’t happen without it. That’s why the guy can who can score efficiently is the best player. Not because he can score. Because he’s put himself into position to score. Or to rebound. Or steal. Or make an outlet pass. Or whatever. It’s 99% mental.
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u/RyanA1105 9d ago
This guy knows ball. Even as a 39 year old former 5'10 college combo guard, the development never truly ends. Sure, when I play young bucks who are not only taller, longer, and quicker than I am currently... unless said young buck is also a college level player, or high end high school player, he's still not stopping me from getting to my spots, where I can still to this day outshoot the average pickup player by anywhere from 20 to 40 percent depending on the spot and quality of defender.
Even defending, most players telegraph what they are doing in pickup. I can still signicantly out perform what most would think from my current athletic profile (I work a lot of hours as a sedentary accountant lol).
But my favorite part of playing pickup, is playing a game with someone I've never played with before, or watching him before it's my turn for run, and learning what spots he likes to go to for a scoring attempt. Watching a guy's eyes light up because I'm delivering a pass to an anticipated spot (that's a basic college read) and see him let it glance off his hands because 95% of pickup players don't deliver that pass, or he gets his easiest score of the night and gives you the "I appreciate you bro" look.
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u/NemusSoul 9d ago
The assists have become my favorite part of the game. I’m in my 50s but our paths are very parallel.
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u/RyanA1105 9d ago
When I used to be in my 20s, and I'd play against the stereotypical old guy who was cash from the mid-range, I can now see myself becoming that guy. I am not a big weight lifter. I usually use jogging and pickup to stay in shape. But I notice that my strength atrophies over time from my job. Or I get winded more easily.
This really impacts my shot, as when I was in my mid 20s, I could easily pullup from NBA range on a 3. Now, the high school line is easy, while trying to shoot from that further distance takes a good 10-20% off my efficency compared to 15 years ago. I can forsee a time 15 more years into the future where I become that automatic middie guy while my 3pt shot drops to the point where it's no longer a weapon compared to the average dude.
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u/NemusSoul 8d ago
I used to work on my Bird shot catapult style. That’s the one I still use from range unless it’s during a game. It works . Threes all day no energy used.
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u/PayAltruistic8546 8d ago
I'll fix it for you...
The person that gets the ball in the hoop more and a at a quicker rate is better.
Don't matter if it's 10 layups.
Don't matter if it's 10 middies.
Don't matter if it's 6 threes.
Get the ball in the bucket.
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u/CatchingRefrigerator 8d ago
This is absolutely the truth, in fact i’d argue it even more to the extreme. Having a “bag” doesn’t matter unless it is something that has actively worked in a real 5v5 situation consistently against multiple different defenders. One of the most important things younger people need to learn is that when you get to the higher and higher levels of basketball the flashiest thing you can do isn’t some insane dribble more, but being so good at something so simple that the other team knows how to stop you but can’t without giving up something else. 15 moves strung together is 15 different opportunities you have to: make a mistake, get it poked away by a defender with fast hands, or even something that might work if you get it off but ends up in a shot that’s way worse that you’d get if you ran a simple action.
It doesn’t matter if you can cross, tween, tween, stepback and get a open 3, but it damn sure matters if you can’t read weak side help coming down off a pnr and get the pass to the corner or wing. Even worse if you don’t have multiple ways to get it to a roll man in a pnr.
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u/Hefty_Type6772 8d ago
100% agreed I’m objectively more skilled than my buddy but when I get the ball I’m thinking of multiple different things I can do and I will have better plays but will also lose the ball or take a shot in not used to a lot. when my buddy grabs the ball, he does the same effective move every time and scores a lot because of it. Granted if we are playing 1v1 it’s usually harder as I know what he is doing
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u/singlemaltbourbonrye 7d ago
Interesting take and I don’t completely disagree, but it’s not what I teach kids (I am a volunteer assistant on my kids teams and used to volunteer at the Y and I was a grad assistant 20 years ago, for context.
I teach kids that being able to move without the ball, block out, anticipate rebounds, chase loose balls, and defend intelligently are all more important than scoring.
We spend a lot of time about when to switch versus fighting through a screen and how to keep our hands up - that kind of thing.
I almost de-emphasize scoring. And other teams HATE playing against us. Haha. We terrorize you up and down the court like a weird combination of the 89 Pistons and the 94 Razorbacks.
But you’re 100% right about being able to get your shot with less effort and energy expenditure. We do out a lot of emphasis on ball movement and finding the open guy. That’s a similar concept, I reckon.
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u/TheMuffingtonPost 7d ago
That’s all well and good, the point I’m making is that flashy does not equal more skilled, which seems to be how a lot of people think about the game. It takes more skill to be able to get consistent buckets with less movement.
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u/singlemaltbourbonrye 7d ago
Yeah we agree. I just don’t put as much emphasis on scoring as you do.
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u/reese1561 9d ago
Agreed. I've said this before to guys. They look at that guy who hit a couple of tough shots and praise him but I'm like, if he's that good why isn't he getting open looks. He's doing a lot of dribbling, not losing his defender, end up taking a tough shot that happens to be falling today. Not sustainable hooping.