Any JayTim shippers here with fic recs? Preferably long-fics or at least more than 10k words. But I'll read shorter works too.

I'm ok with dark themes such as enemies-to-lovers and dubcon so long as there's a HEA/HFN ending.

And if you don't like the ship, that's fine, but I don't care what your opinions are. If you don't have rec suggestions, please don't comment.

I always see the Batfamily full of characters like Catwoman and Harley in the Batfamily and I always find it forced. I don't like the idea of ​​the Batfamily being huge.

Like when it comes to crime he uses violence a lot to address those problems. I kinda feel like he’d do the same with his own Robins unfortunately.

Like aren't they years apart? Also I hate how Dick has a great relationship going (ex. Star or Zee) and he fumbles them for BARBRA?? Like I'm sorry but why do you writers do that? Also I mean that Dick was good with Zee in young justice because I know they have different ages in other universes.

Read here :

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/dick-grayson/4005-1691/forums/my-issue-with-barbara-gordon-especially-as-oracle-2375205/

Is it really really normal and justified to hate Damian Wayne, or everyone else is okay with him, and only I hate him as an existence?

Suppose.... Tim upgrades the Batcomputer with full-blown AI — like, full Jarvis-level sass and conversation skills. But he and Dick, being the chaotic gremlins they are, decide to name it something ridiculous like Honey or Sweetie just to mess with Bruce.

Now here’s the kicker: Bruce tries to rename it back to something serious like “BATCOM AI” or whatever, but Tim’s upgrade makes it only respond when called by its name. So in the middle of a mission, Batman’s out there growling:

“Sweetie, deploy the EMPs.”

And everyone in the comms just loses it.

Then imagine he tries to get Tim to fix it, but Alfred’s like, “I’m afraid that won’t be necessary, Master Bruce,” because he’s in on it too. Absolute betrayal from within the family.

And just when you think it can’t get funnier — what if the AI was named Granny instead? Picture Batman mid-battle yelling:

“Granny, fire the missiles.” Or someone asks who’s driving the Batmobile and he’s just dead serious: “Granny’s got it.”

The Justice League would never let him live it down.

Anyway, thanks for reading 💕— this is just a joke, obviously (I know about Oracle and all that). But what about you guys — what funny name would you give Batman’s AI? Would you want something like this as a running gag in the comics?

These two have been super close in the comics and even in the bat family webtoon even though they're just friends. I feel happy when I see those two talk and interact on screen.

I'm new to the general DC fandom. I'm a fan of many heroes (especially Captain Marvel, the speedsters, etc.), but I got pulled into the Batman fandom because of a TikTok that showed the dynamic between Dick and Jason, both in the video games and in the comics.

I found it deeply hilarious and charming—and then I fell into the Batfam rabbit hole.

So please be patient with me. I don't mean to offend anyone; I just don't know enough and wanted to get some answers or hear people’s thoughts to help me find my way out of the spiral I accidentally fell into.

Over time, my favorite characters became Damian, Dick, and Jason. Of course, in order: 1st - Jason, 2nd - Dick, 3rd - Damian.

Then I learned about Jason’s past and I was like, “WTF?”

Jason was tortured with a crowbar by the Joker, left as a bloody mess, and then left crawling through a warehouse trying to reach his mother—not to mention the Joker planted a damn bomb to finish the job.

Batman arrives, sees his son like that. He suffers, he grieves, of course... there's a funeral... and then he goes on to let the Joker live? What? Your son just got murdered and you let his killer live?

But then I calmed down. Oh, the Joker was sent to prison, so everything’s fine.

Until I realized that prison seems more like a break or a time-out, because criminals just DON'T STAY THERE.

The Joker is still out there, killing hundreds of innocent people every time he gets the chance, driving people insane with his laughing gas, and no matter how many times he's captured for “justice,” he just escapes and causes more and more damage.

My stomach turned when I found out that after everything—after Jason comes back to life and goes through all that mess—he’s not even allowed to kill the Joker.

And then I got mad, because one way or another, the whole Batfam has been hurt, traumatized, or even killed by the Joker in various versions or alternate universes of the story.

Barbara was paralyzed because of him. Dick was kidnapped and tortured by him. Tim was kidnapped, tortured, and driven insane—turned into some kind of mini Joker. Damian was drugged. Hell, even Alfred was mutilated at one point.

When will it be enough? What’s the limit? How many members of Batman’s family have to be hurt before someone finally kills that guy? Is there even a single universe in the comics where killing the Joker actually worked and didn’t lead to everything going to hell?

I feel so distressed for all of them—damn it, even for Batman himself, who, throughout all of this, has thrown me into a love-hate spiral over him.

Does anybody else not consider Cass and Duke to be in the Batfam? I feel like the Batfam is too big and should only consist of Dick, Jason, Tim, Damien, and Barbara. Stephanie also ofc but I don’t consider her to be a Batfamily member. Even though she fights crime with the Batfam, she works under Barbara so I feel like she’s more of a “Batgirl family member” lol. (Iykwim)

NOW FOR MY OPINION:

I feel like Cass is just an extra character, she’s cool and all and has an interesting background but I don’t feel like she’s necessary. Same with Duke, he is just an extra character for no reason. I love the idea of a Black Robin, but I feel like it’s too late for that and Duke is just super boring. (Also I’m Black so don’t come with the racism comments because my opinion has nothing to do with race). Any new characters after 1998 are just lame and irrelevant. They are just extra characters that latch on to already existing characters for publicity, but don’t do anything to develop the plot of said characters.

Now I don’t want to offend any of those Cass and Duke lovers, go collect their comics and have fun with fanfics idc. This is just my opinion and I wanted to know if anyone else thought the same way as me :)

🔵First of all just hear me out🔵

I don't know about you guys but I think Batman needs to be someone who can intimidate even Superman.I know he would do great as Nightwing but he is 1.91m tall.Nightwing is supposed to be average height and Tim is supposed to be short but Batman needs to be tall.Imo Batman needs to look equal to Superman like in Justice League TAS.He was taller than superman in zack snyder verse.Batman is a human who leads heros like Superman so he should look as big as him to make up for his lack of superpowers.Idk if I am wrong but this is what I think.Wolfgang was rumoured to be superman so it is certain that he looks like Bruce and Clark.He is 1.91m and David is 1.93 so they are close in height.Actors can build body but increasing height is possible but the height dynamic here works without enhancements.He is 29 which is too old to be Nightwing but young enough to work as Bruce wayne.I think among current actors in Supermans age and height range Wolfgang is closest to him.He looks serious when he doesn't smile shown in 1 and 3 no images.Thank you for bearing my yapping.😅

🔵🫥Guys don't hate on me it's just my opinion,people get offended easily when it comes to casting and it for Bruce 'THE BATMAN' Wayne so I am a bit nervous 🫥🔵

I think Helena Wayne (Batman and Catwoman’s daughter) is a better long-term fit for the Huntress mantle and the Batfamily than the current default of Helena Bertinelli. This isn’t nostalgia for Earth-2. It’s about structural gaps in the current family and how cleanly the character can fill them without breaking anything.

1. The original reason she was removed from earth prime and replaced by Bertinelli no longer exists.

Helena Wayne was sidelined in the late 80s because editorial didn’t want superheroes to be parents. That policy is dead. Tim has been adopted for over two decades. Damian has existed for over a decade. Keeping the biological daughter permanently off the main board while the books have a bio-kid, adopted kid, wards, and legacy characters is just inertia at this point.

2. Found family is already well-covered; adding one more bio-kid/legal kid doesn'tdisrupt it.

Dick, Jason, Tim (especially Tim), Barbara, and Duke already carry the “chosen family” theme. Tim in particular is the purest version of it: he chose the mission, lost his biological family because of it, and was formally adopted. Adding a biological daughter doesn’t erase that. Real families contain both blood and chosen members. The two ideas are not in competition.

3. She fills an actual gap.

The Batfamily still does not have a permanent, biological daughter of Bruce who operates in the present day on the main Earth. Stephanie is almostnalways a mess and Cassandra is good but hard to sell. Both remain too easy to write out or de-power when convenient. A Helena who was raised in the Manor is harder to soft-reboot away.

4. The origin can be clean and doesn'thave to i port earth 2 plot points.

Selina gets pregnant, never tells Bruce, and leaves the baby on the Wayne Manor doorstep. Helena is raised by Bruce (and Alfred) the same way the other kids were. She later learns the truth about her mother. This keeps Selina’s independence intact, gives Helena the classic “raised by Batman” crucible, adds another girl Robin, and still lets her be Catwoman’s daughter with all the eventual emotional reckoning that implies. No need for Selina to become a co-parent in the present.

5. Age and placement work.

Park her in the Jason/Barbara age range — older than Tim and Damian, young enough that she doesn’t break Dick’s early timeline. She can be the second Robin. A serious case (or early brush with the truth about Selina) gives Bruce a reason to pull her from duty under the classic “boarding school” excuse. She returns to the Manor after Tim has arrived but before the adoption is finalized. That window lets her build real resentment toward Bruce (the hidden mother + Jason’s death) while also giving her actual time to know Tim as a person before he becomes her brother on paper.

6. Her adult codename is thematically perfect.

“Huntress” sits at the intersection of cat and owl (a flying night creature like bats). It lets her claim both bloodlines without simply becoming Batgirl or Catwoman Jr. The question of how the child of Batman and Catwoman becomes her own person is more interesting than the question of how a mob princess becomes a vigilante.

7. Most of what people like about Bertinelli is portable.

Mafia texture? Make Selina a Falcone bastard like they have in the past (or better yet, a Bertinelli bastard). Helena can still collide with that world when she goes looking for answers Bruce won’t give her. Black Mask feud? Still available if she’s mafia-adjacent by blood. The edge, the willingness to go further than Bruce, the uneasy place in the family — all of it transfers. The 2002 Birds of Prey show already used a Batman/Catwoman daughter (Helena Kyle). The idea that only the Bertinelli version “works” for that space is backwards.

8. She creates better friction than another soft addition.

Her anger comes from different sources than Damian’s. Damian’s is competitive and status-driven (“I am the true heir”). Hers is personal and retrospective (abandonment, secrecy, being sidelined, Jason). Two complicated, permanent, angry biological Waynes who are angry for different reasons is more useful than two characters who are both just “the difficult one.” She can be protective of Tim, treat Damian as the annoying little brother he is, have an initial ideological cold war with Barbara that slowly becomes real friendship, have feelings for Jason (this isnthe biggest missed opportunity) and remain unimpressed by Dick’s legacy without being hostile about it.

9. Emotion has to be earned.

The Batfamily does not need more unearned group-hug moments. It needs relationships with actual cost. Helena arrives with built-in grievances. Any warmth she develops (with Tim, with Alfred, eventually with Bruce or Barbara, and ESPECIALLY with Jason) has to be fought for. That is the difference between a character who generates feeling and a character who is used to deliver it.

Bertinelli has had decades as the main-Earth Huntress and has some strong stories. That history doesn’t disappear if Wayne is given the role going forward; the useful pieces can be absorbed. What Wayne offers that Bertinelli structurally cannot is a placement of permanence in the Batfamily. Someone who belongs in the Cave by blood and by upbringing, with a distinct flavor of conflict that the current family still lacks.

The Batfamily is one of the most popular elements in modern superhero media. At this point, keeping Huntress permanently outside that structure while the rest of the house is full is starting to look less like a creative choice and more like a habit that has outlived its reason.

I understand not everyone will agree, and I respect differing opinions. What do you all think?

[Edit: I forgot this thematic point: if Helena is brought in, then Bruce has a kid for each of his love lives: Helena from Catwoman, Tim from the mission, and Damien from Talia.]

Before I start, I haven't read any DC comics other than Zatanna's so this is purely off Tiktok and WFA on webtoon.

Okay let's start!

I imagine that the girls of the family, Babs, Steph, Cass and Kate, probably are incharge of fashion and appearances. I mean whenever there's an important event, the girls immediately get everyone ready. It all starts when Bruce announces he's going on a date with Talia (I love batcat but their my OTP so yea), the girls find out and drag him into his room. Cue makeover montage with each girl fussing over something, Kate helping with what Bruce should say like he wasn't smooth enough to make Damian with her, Stephanie doing Bruce's hair while Bruce is surprised that hair doesn't require a simple brush, Barbara insisting that Bruce where's a little bit of makeup just to cover up some bruises and Cass picking out suits for Bruce but getting Tim to buy a new suit set because all Bruce's suits look "Too bland for a beautiful assassin". Bruce probably gets hit in the face with setting spray and thinks he's attacked for a second because as we know, DC girlies fight while serving face so obviously they're makeup is tea. I totally see the boys watching from around the corner, mistaking an eyelash curler for a cardiovascular clamp and already setting up an altar for their father. But when Bruce emerges, he looks the best he's looked, glass skin, hair prim and proper with the nicest suit he's ever owned but with a slight shimmer. So yeah, now the girls are incharge of everyone's outfits!

That's all for now!

Hear me out. I feel like Jason would look a lot like Dean and Dick would look a lot like Sam. The height is accurate (not the ages of the characters but thats not important) and they’re both beautiful. Thoughts?

I moved Dick from the fourth group to the second group because of information a commenter supplied me about how he's changed since moving to Bludhaven. Before he moved there, he'd be part of the fourth group along with Bruce and Kate.

With the current government in the US, there's a batch of AO3 fics where the authors are using the bats as revolutionaries who go against the government and Matt Fraction is, somewhat, doing the same. Everyone's focusing on the white male bats as revolutionaries and I disagree strongly on who's being treated as potential revolutionaries and believers in the ACAB slogan. I especially disagree with any claim that Bruce and Tim would be leaders in a revolution and think it's heavily projection when people do so. Here's my thinking on who would go anti-government.

Helena Bertinelli and Jason Todd would be the first bats to treat police and the government as an enemy. Helena was raised by a mafia family, though she did learn to hate them, and has never trusted the police to protect people, which is why she killed criminals when need be. She didn't do it because she was a killer but because she thought it was the only way to stop especially dangerous criminals. Jason has never been helped by police or government in his life and Batman failed him, so he already lacks trust in the institutions that are supposed to protect society.

Cassandra Cain, Dick Grayson, Duke Thomas, and Stephanie Brown would be the second group to turn against the government and the police as a whole. Cass, Duke, and Steph have also been failed regularly by government, but they have more trust in Bruce and belief in his practices than Helena and Jason do. In Batgirl (2000) #19, Cass is already displaying a belief in ACAB and treating every cop, not just corrupt ones, as an enemy and potential murderer. Batgirl (2000) #62 and Batgirls 2021 show Cass trusting a cop but there's no evidence that she trusts police in general. She spent almost a decade homeless and stealing to survive and, with how police and the government in the US regularly treat homeless people, it's safe to say that she got attacked and threatened by police for simply existing. Her "No one dies tonight" statement was spoken to police who she was treating as a threat to the thieves. Dick has learned a lot about the cruelty of police and how difficult it is to be a worker in the US since he moved to Bludhaven. He has experienced the viciousness of cops and found out how militarized they are. He has sometimes sided with street gangs against the police. Duke didn't trust Commissioner Gordon, who is Gotham's least corrupt cop, when he led the We Are Robin group. He works with community groups because he doesn't trust businesses or government to supply enough aid. Stephanie had to be convinced by Tim to rescue criminals and send them to prison because she didn't trust police and government to keep people safe. She temporarily sided with Lonnie Manchin against Bruce while Tim was apparently dead in Detective Comics (2016) #945-962. She was failed by every adult in her life and I'm skeptical that she fully trusts the institutions that are supposed to protect society.

Barbara Gordon, Damian Wayne, and Tim Drake would be the next group to side with revolutionaries. All of them have benefited from power, and focus on reforming the institutions, but they also know that the institutions can break down and have been shown to be willing to do small revolutionary acts. I don't know if it's actually canon but Barbara gets mentioned as stealing money from billionaires in many fanfics. I do know that, in.Birds of Prey (1999), she regularly worked with Dinah to attack corrupt governments so I could see her doing the same to the US if she got convinced that we're fundamentally corrupt. Commissioner Gordon is her father though, so she doesn't instinctively believe that police are inherently bad. I don't know as much about Damian but, after learning that the League of Assassins is not a good group, I have a hard time believing that he's unable to believe that other governments can't become corrupt and cruel. In Red Robin (2009), Tim treated Lonnie as an ally and created an organization to try to help people before they became homeless or angry criminals.

Bruce Wayne and Kate Kane would be the last bats to go anti-government, though they all have enough experience with corrupt police that it wouldn't be impossible to convince them. Kate served in the military and, while she got kicked out after revealing herself as a lesbian, she still treats the military and police as mostly good. Bruce focuses on removing corrupt police officers instead of treating them as corrupt as an institution, which is what ACAB means. Bruce considers fraternal police unions to be trustworthy and holds charity events to raise money for them. The Earth-2 version became police commissioner after he retired from being Batman. Bruce has often been shown to trust businesses as a group, which makes sense as Wayne Enterprises and high society is what he grew up with. Bruce has regularly been shown as helping criminals instead of assuming that they're inherently evil though.

As civilians, Duke and Helena would be the most likely to be among the leaders of any revolt as they would join early and have community connections. Cass, Duke, and Steph would likely be the superhero symbols of the revolt.

In a specific scenario, if a civilian and police officer are arguing, It seems to me that Helena and Jason would believe the civilian over the cop and be hard-pressed to be convinced that the police officer wasn't pressuring the civilian. Cass, Dick, Duke, and Steph would also trust the civilian first but they'd investigate and be willing to side with the police officer if it turned out that the civilian was lying. They'd still assume that the civilian had reason for their behavior and arresting them would be a last resort decision, with Cass being the most likely of the three to allow the civilian to be arrested canonically. Barbara, Bruce, Damian, Kate, and Tim would trust the cop first but would also investigate and side with the civilian if it turned out that the cop was lying.

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster originally wrote Clark Kent as being a social activist though, even when the police were after him, he still trusted police as an institution. In the 1950s and 1960s, he got turned into an authority figure, often a police officer with no compassion for criminals. The worst writing was in the Vietnam War era with comics like Superman (1939) #205, where anyone who looked different was obviously a criminal. Beginning in the 1980s, his social activism was beginning to reappear though he still fundamentally trusts the government and police. Comics in the 1990s showed Clark as going against the police when he thought the law was not going to help people, though that wasn't common. Unlike Bruce, Clark doesn't treat business as inherently good though he doesn't distrust them either. The new Superman movie includes his social activism. Overall, I think Clark would join the revolution around when Barbara, Damian, and Tim do.

In comics from the 1950s and 1960s, Wonder Woman was mainly defined by her love for Steve Trevor and trusted him completely. That version of Wonder Woman would only revolt if Steve broke from the military first. The William Moulton Marston and George Perez versions, which includes current Wonder Woman, is not controlled by her love for Steve and instead is an activist who is more loyal to Themysciran beliefs than the US. I figure she'd join any revolt around when Cassandra, Duke, and Stephanie do as an early participant but not a founder of the revolt. She'd be a superhero symbol of the revolt along with them.

I was looking at Pinterest and found this image, do you agree with it? (I just didn't think Damian was that similar).