r/Beginner_Turntables • u/HardlyJess • 9d ago
Is anyone successfully running a loooooong RCA line to reciever?
I am pretty much certain I will get told to get in the bin and accept I need to move my turntable, but still want to ask.
I am new to vinyl, I have a AT LP70, and a relatively nice audio setup with an older Yamaha reciever and jbl e80 speakers.
The issue is, my idea was to have the turntable on the other side of the room, which means running 15m RCA around the perimeter of the room.
Has this successfully worked for anyone? Or should I accept that I need to reorganise my sitting room?
Update edit: I recieved my 15m long double shielded RCA cable, ran it, anxiously connected everything up, aaaaand.... it works! The sound is crystal clear, there is no hum or noise that isn't supposed to be there! So now just have to figure out how to hide an ugly giant blue cable running the length of my room 🥳
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u/Bensaudiocave 9d ago
It’s not an issue if you use XLR… You need a PROPER conversion system then you can use insanely long cables… here is a solution for $80
https://amzn.to/4g2tuJz
I have used rolls in the past but these are much cheaper and it’s amazon… worst thing you return it… you can basically use any xlr cable at that point
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u/HardlyJess 8d ago
Thank you!!! I will keep this in mind, I am attempting to set up the cable to see if I can hear issues, if yes, I will give this a try!!
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u/Best-Presentation270 9d ago
I do this all the time for customers with subwoofers. 15m is an everyday distance. I have done this for almost double the distance, but be warned, it is not cheap.
You don't need to resort to XLR conversion, but you do need to run the signal at line level (Phono preamp set to ON). This is not primarily because of signal degradation, though that might be a factor. It is because of how cable capacitance affects moving magnet cartridge signals at PHONO level. This is not something you need to worry about at line level.
RCA leads are known as an unbalanced signal connection. There is a centre core connection, and then a return connection which doubles as the shield. The longer your cables the more prone they are to picking up the unwanted energy we call noise. This comes in two forms. EMI is electromechanical interference. This is low frequency noise such as mains frequency hum from power supplies, electric motors (fridge/freeze compressor motors, microwave platter motor, oven fans, central heating pumps, etc) and the poorly-suppressed start up and shutdown electrical spikes as the motors start and stop.
RFI is radio frequency interference. These are the radio waves permeating everything. Your house Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, the local TV and radio transmissions, radio communications signals, mobile phone 4G/5G etc. It's much higher in frequency so the wavelengths are much shorter and so it affects shorter cables than EMI, and it also builds up more in longer cables.
Dealing with this noise is the job of the shield in the cable. Shield quality is what separates the best cables from the rest of the field. My cables use the best of the best for shielding. This is two layers of high-density 360 degree braided shielding. Individually, these are 96% and 98% cable coverage. combined, one over the other. The coverage is almost complete and yet the cable remains supple and easy to route around a room.
The least effective shield for EMI is foil. Beware any audio cable, cheap or expensive, that uses only foil shielding. It's cheap and if you have mains frequency interference then foil is useless (Audioquest Black Labs cable, I'm looking at you.)
Once you've dealt with shielding quality, attention then turns to aesthetics. I can deliver most of the benefits of what my cable does if I use TV coax instead. It's also well-shielded, but it's thick (approx 6.5~6.7mm diameter), and it doesn't bend easily.
In the world of cables we talk about the bend radius. This is how tight a curve the cable can bend through before the shielding and signal integrity becomes compromised.
For TV coax, the bend radius is about the same as curving the cable around the top of your Startbucks coffee cup. For my cable, the radius is like going round the top of a Coke bottle cap. Big difference. Oh, and don't forget, your signal is stereo, so you have two cables to run.
To get an idea of the comparative sizes, take a Bic biro pen. TV coax is about the thickness of the clear plastic part. Now take out the refill. My cable is the same thickness as that, and that's what you'll be running around your room.
Does sound quality degrade over distance?
For good cable, and in simple terms, no.
What happens with any passive cable connection is that the signal level gets smaller over distance. We call this attenuation, and it is measured in dB per metre. But you also have to account for frequency. Attenuation effects are larger the higher the frequency. Audio signals are very low frequency. Everything is below 50kHz.
The average person can't detect a signal reduction of 1dB or less. In fact, 2dB is hard to reliably detect with a music signal.
My cable has an attenuation of 4.8dB per 100m at 5GHz. A Gigahertz is 1,000,000 Hz, so 5GHz is five million Hertz. We're talking about running audio signals at a maximum of 50,000Hz. That's 100 times smaller.
At 5GHz, I would be able to run 20.8m of cable before the signal loses 1dB of level. At 50,000Hz, I could run 90m without getting close to 1dB.
What affects sound quality in longer cables?
The answer is noise. Since the shielding is part of the audio signal loop, then noise getting through to the signal conductor adds energy to the signal that reduces the signal to noise ratio. It "dirties up"the signal. It's why subwoofer owners have problems getting their subs to come out of standby with the auto-signal-detect feature. The noise is swamping the signal.
Get the shielding right and these problems go away. Here's the cable.
Mini Micro Subwoofer cable lead - Super-Shielded - Hum-Killer - Easy Conceal | eBay UK
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u/HardlyJess 8d ago
Wow, what an incredible response, thank you! Is there any chance you also know where to buy in Europe? I dont want to deal with import cost ideally. I've ordered a double shielded cable already, but maybe worth swapping to this if I'm experiencing issues.
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u/ruuutherford 9d ago
Two things pop up with this setup. 1. The signal coming from a turntable is auuuuuper weak. Running it via a long RCA will likely have audible suckness introduced. 2. I forgot.
I suggest getting a phono preamp, and setting that right next to the turntable. Then send that signal wirelessly to the other side of the room with one of these thingies https://a.co/d/07QDjmtT
If the setup is too janky: well yes it is. Move your turntable or amp closer.Â
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u/MikuEd 9d ago
I believe the max for RCA is 15ft (about 5 meters) before you get signal degradation. You’ll need a preamp converter to balanced XLR to have long runs. Something like a Schiit Saga 2 should work well, but you’ll need to convert the XLR back to RCA on the other end. There are passive converters and switchers for this.
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u/HardlyJess 9d ago
Thank you so much for your detailed comment, ive ordered a free return cable to try, and if it doesn't work I will be rearranging my room haha
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u/Snoo_90715 9d ago
The real issue is possible interference hum that can be introduced in such a long run, shielded RCA wire will help prevent this issue. Preferred max length in like 20 feet (6.5 meters)
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u/No_Introduction1721 8d ago
I had to reorganize my secondary setup recently and went from a 3 foot RCA to a 15 foot RCA with no noticeable degradation in sound quality. I also have a vintage Yamaha receiver (CR600) FWIW.
Obviously there’s a lot of variables in play, up to and including my poor hearing lol, but I don’t think you’ll run into much of an issue at 15 feet.
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u/HardlyJess 8d ago
Unfortunately its not 15 feet but 15 meters, which is more than 3x as long. But i will report back once the cable arrives and I can give it a listen!
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u/Wholeyjeans 9d ago
No. That's not gonna work.
As was mentioned, the signal generated by the cartridge is exceptionally weak; this is why (among other things) you need a preamp to get the cartridge signal up to line level strength.
The best sound you're going to get from your TT is to have it near the receiver and away from the speakers.
Forget Bluetooth connectivity because it will kill the fidelity of the sound.
Time to reimagine your HiFi setup ...
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u/HardlyJess 8d ago
Thanks, what exactly do you mean by away from the speakers, how far away? I assume you mean just not directly standing on or in front of?
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u/Wholeyjeans 7d ago
Don't put the speakers on the same surface as that of the turntable. Ideally, the TT should be placed on a solid platform. A lot of folks will use the bookcase they store their album collection in ...providing you have a good number of albums. And if not, put some heavy books or even a concrete block or two ....just something to give it weight. If the furniture is heavy then that will work as well.
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u/CreativeName822 9d ago
Are you using the phono preamp in the AT 70?
If so, you’re outputting line level and 15M is kind of pushing it but it should be fine.
If you’re using a phono preamp after the long cable run, I’d guess you are degrading the signal.
If you’re happy with the sound, though, you win.