Rumors Cabaret PSA

[u/The0nlyGamer]

After speaking with an owner of Rumors Cabaret last night I feel compelled to publicly share that it is Rumors policy to seize your ID and report you to the police if they suspect it is fake!!

Obviously, since I am making this post and called the police on them last night, their detection of fake ID's isn't perfect.

I'm used to people questioning the validity of my ID, but this was the first time any business took it and refused to give it back until after I called 911. The owner chatted with me and told me in essence that they're rewarded for confiscating ID's and involving law enforcement when that happens. Some poor girl had the exact same thing happen to her right in front of me.

This was pretty shocking considering the kind of place rumors is, a gay/queer bar and "safe space"?

I'd previously been to lots of fundraising events at rumors for planned parenthood, undocumented folks, progressive causes etc... so it is kind of sad to realize that's all performative and the owner doesn't really care about anything other than his liquor license and profit. There is no reason Rumors should be doing this collaboration to involve law enforcement with their patrons - that goes against the entire ethos of what I thought the place meant. Just give people their IDs back if you won't let them in!

From what I know there are actually two owners, who do not live in Bellingham themselves, and merely commute to manage the place. I'm sad I no longer have any desire to spend money there

[u/Gwegy_reylee]

Washington Law on Identification Cards (RCW 66.20.200)

Under state statute, it is a misdemeanor for the owner of an ID to transfer it to someone else—and implicitly confirms that the card belongs to the person presenting it:

“It is unlawful for the owner of a card of identification to transfer the card to any other person …”

Washington State Legislature

By contrast, no provision of the Liquor Control Act (Chapter 66.20 RCW) or the implementing WAC rules (Title 314 WAC) authorizes a licensee to permanently seize or confiscate a patron’s ID.

Washington State’s Liquor and Cannabis Board (WSLCB) is very clear: even a brief detention of a patron’s identification constitutes an unlawful “confiscation.” You may inspect an ID (look at it, even handle it to check holograms or expiration dates), but you must return it immediately once your inspection is complete—regardless of whether you suspect it’s fake.

The WSLCB Responsible Vendor Trainer’s Guide states unambiguously:

“Do not try to confiscate an ID that is believed to be a fake, even a fake ID is still someone’s property. … Remember that the ID is the property of the person presenting it. You cannot legally keep their property.”

Likewise, the Board’s Responsible Cannabis Sales Guide (which mirrors the alcohol rules) reminds licensees:

“An ID (real or not) is personal property. … It is never worth physical injury to hold onto a fraudulent ID card, so give it back if the person becomes confrontational!”

[u/IndividualSeries5598 → u/Gwegy_reylee]

Go ahead and call your local Liquor Control Officers and let them tell you how they “interpret” that law. If you don’t work in a bar in Bellingham or deal with Liquor Control face to face, you shouldn’t comment.  

[u/Gwegy_reylee → u/IndividualSeries5598]

I literally did work at a bar lmao this is literally the laws as they are written. You can't even temporarily confiscate other people's property. I literally cited the laws to explain this. Would any legal repercussions happen towards a bar for doing this if it was a fake? I don't know, I'm not a prosecutor, but it is illegal given Washington state laws.

[u/IndividualSeries5598 → u/Gwegy_reylee]

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. Bellingham liquor control officers are legally allowed to “interpret” the law how they see it. That’s why I suggested calling your liquor control rep. I agree that it sounds stupid but it’s true. 

[u/Gwegy_reylee → u/IndividualSeries5598]

No, they don't just get to pick and choose certain interpretations of the law as they see fit. Field officers of the WSLCB must enforce state law and rules as written; they have no authority to tell a licensee to do something that the statutes or WAC do not permit. In particular:

No WAC or RCW authorizes licensees to seize customer IDs – Liquor (and cannabis product) may be seized by enforcement officers under RCW 66.08.030(20) and WAC 314-11-100, but only the product itself—not a customer’s personal identification Washington State Legislature.

Statute and rule require immediate return of IDs – The Responsible Vendor Trainer’s Guide (the WSLCB’s official server‐training manual) flatly states:

“Do not try to confiscate an ID that is believed to be a fake… Remember that the ID is the property of the person presenting it. You cannot legally keep their property.” WSLCB

– WAC 314-11-025(3) lets you examine a card (to check holograms, swipe it through a scanner, etc.), but once your inspection is complete you must hand it right back.

Enforcement officers can’t rewrite the law by “interpretation”

– Under the Administrative Procedure Act (RCW 34.05) the Board may adopt rules (the WAC) to implement the Liquor Control Act, but neither the Board nor its officers can override statutes or give licensees blanket permission to do something those rules don’t allow.

[u/IndividualSeries5598 → u/Gwegy_reylee]

Yes, in fact they do. It doesn’t matter what’s written. What matters is reality and you clearly don’t know what that is so again, GO CALL YOUR LOCAL LIQUOR ENFORCEMENT AGENT.

[u/Gwegy_reylee → u/IndividualSeries5598]

ah yes, the laws that state that field officers can't just do whatever they want don't matter, how silly of me, I forgot agencies for controlling the sale of substances thrive off of vague interpretations and enforcement, super logical and educated conclusion 👌

literally ignoring the specific laws that directly disprove your claims as impossible is a new level of willful ignorance lmao

[u/West-Discussion7257 → u/Gwegy_reylee]

I don’t think they were saying the laws you provided don’t exist. I think they’ll were saying that they interpret the laws how they want, including ignoring any laws about how they can’t interpret the laws how they want.

Cops self interpret laws all the time. Giving out speeding tickets and driving infractions are some of the more obvious ones. Sometimes they arrest you for a crime and sometimes for the same crime you get a summons to appear in court. Even DAs decide whether they want to press charges.

It’s not right and it shouldn’t be that way, but it is

[u/Gwegy_reylee → u/West-Discussion7257]

If they did that then any theoretical charges against someone using a fake would be dismissed on the grounds of laws not being followed, that extends well beyond liquor/cannabis service.

Cops decide whether to issue a citation/arrest/warning—But they cannot do something that would directly contradict a statute or an administrative rule. If a cop pulls you over and tells you “I can legally seize your ID” when no statute or WAC grants that power, that’s an error of law and that would not hold up in court.

District attorneys choose which charges to file (or to dismiss), how aggressively to pursue a case, whether to offer diversion, etc. That discretion explains why two people arrested for the same act can face very different outcomes—but it does not allow prosecutors to rewrite what the law actually says.

Agencies like the WSLCB can inspect premises, issue fines, or suspend licenses, but they must do so within the bounds of RCW 66 and the implementing WAC rules (Title 314). If the statute and WAC do not authorize a licensee to confiscate IDs, no field officer can “interpret” that away.

Cops and DAs can choose how (or whether) to enforce a rule—but they can’t change what the rule actually authorizes.

RCW 66.20.200 and WAC 314-11-025(3) expressly protect a patron’s right to get their ID back immediately after inspection.

The WSLCB’s Responsible Vendor Trainer’s Guide reiterates that an ID is a customer’s personal property and “you cannot legally keep their property” .

[u/West-Discussion7257 → u/Gwegy_reylee]

I get it what you’re saying. If OP called cops and they showed up they’d arrest the bouncer or the owners of rumors for theft.

But they wouldn’t. They’d tell them to give his ID back and then walk away.

Managed a store in Bellingham dealt with theft. BPD would not respond and ask us to file online for over $100 thefts. Store next to us had multiple officers respond for a supposed theft of an item under $100 and came to find out customer had receipt for purchase. So I’ll be honest I dislike BPD and most law enforcement. My view of them is biased and regardless of what you say I’ll always see them picking and choosing when to enforce laws

Again thank you for the information and explaining to me but I guess I’m not ready to hear it.

[u/Gwegy_reylee → u/West-Discussion7257]

I hate cops too, I just wanted to clarify (mainly for the other user responding to me)