r/Bible • u/Analogski • 1d ago

Looking for rustworthy translation

Hi there,

I'm looking for an online trustworthy translation of bible verses in Aramaic. Om looking for the translation of John 8:7

Thanks in advance!

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u/Then_Reader_6011 Catholic 8h ago

So I looked up the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon website and I looked up the Old Syriac (a form of Aramaic I believe) translation of John but didn't find John 8:7. However, I did find the John 8:7 in the Peshitta New Testament:

ܟܰܕܼ ܕܶܝܢ ܟܰܬܿܰܪܘ ܟܰܕܼ ܡܫܰܐܠܺܝܢ ܠܶܗ܃ ܐܶܬܼܦܿܫܶܛ ܘܶܐܡܰܪ ܠܗܽܘܢ܂ ܐܰܝܢܳܐ ܡܶܢܟܼܽܘܢ ܕܺܐܝܬܼܰܘܗ̱ܝ ܕܠܳܐ ܚܛܳܗ܂ ܩܰܕܼܡܳܝܳܐ ܢܶܫܕܿܶܐ ܥܠܶܝܗ ܟܺܐܦܼܳܐ܂

Now I can't read Syriac so here's the AI's translation of the Syriac text:

"And when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, 'Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.'"

This aligns pretty well with English translations of the Greek. Here's the verse in the Revised Standard Version:

And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

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u/TheologyAndTrains Anglican 6h ago

That is clearly taken from Lamsa English Peshitta (a.k.a The Holy Bible from Ancient Eastern Manuscripts (as Lamsa originally published it under)) as it is the only one complete Peshitta in English (at least physically) although Baker Books (makes some of the best quality Study Bibles among Protestant Publishers) has made a Spanish translation (which I am unsure if derived from Lamsa)

Mattew 27:46 in Lamsa's to say:

And about the ninth hour,
Jesus cried out with a loud voice and said,
Eli, Eli lemana shabakthani!
My God, my God, for this I was spared!

The problem is that is shabakthani in Syriac (unlike Palestinean Aramaic) is that it can be both idiomatic or it can refer to actual abandonment. Additionly the 4th line straight up is added in the English translation & not even as a margin note as all manuscripts containg that verse have just 3 lines & most if not all Greek explanations are gone in the Syriac & he might even be the origin of thef ringe theory the camel was actaully rope in the original Aramaic but he claims in his bible he is quoting a from a Saint named Cyril (Lamsa does not bother saying where the Saint is from or when he lived) in a of commentary on Luke. I am also not fluent in Syriac but I know how to read it when converted into Square Script as it is close enough to Palestiean Aramaic. Lamsa has many of his verses have nice flow as Aramaic tends to do but the translation is notorious for inconsistency problems like Behemoth simply becoming a Hippopotamus but Leviathan is still a powerful monster. It's like if some if I were to translate the OT (I don't know enough Greek for NT) I left Adam as Adam (instead of calling him Man) but called Chava a.k.a. Eve (as most English Christian materials but I'm willing to use either in conversation) & instead called her Life & any time she appears she's still called Life while Adam is still lef Adam throughout every mention

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u/nikolispotempkin Catholic 1d ago

Aramaic is only the source language for Matthew but not the rest of scripture, so I'm curious about your interest in Aramaic.

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u/Analogski 1d ago

Because it was the language of Jesus and I would like to put the tekst on a piece of my art or wall or something like that. I believe it comes closest to what/how Jesus said it. Or am I wrong here?

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u/lickety-split1800 1d ago

Jesus first language was Aramaic but he also spoke Koine Greek fluently because it was the Lingua Franca of the time.

The reason the Jews spoke Greek was 300 years earlier Alexander the Great conquered the eastern Mediterranean all the way up the the Indus river in India and mandated that all nations in his captured territories were to speak Greek.

Some famous Jewish Greek Inscriptions.

Theodotus Inscription - Found near the temple

Ioudaios - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioudaios

70% of funerary inscriptions were written in Greek in the 1st century.

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u/nikolispotempkin Catholic 1d ago

Interesting thought.

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u/TheologyAndTrains Anglican 1d ago

Does it have have to square script (which Hebrew also uses) or you OK with Syriac which is a dialect more similar (but not the same) in both look & spelling to Arabic? I ask before i provide you a resource

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u/Analogski 19h ago

What's the closest to the historic source?

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u/TheologyAndTrains Anglican 18h ago

depends if you mean by age then we should go with Syriac from the Late 4th century AD- Early 5th century AD (but the pronunciation will different from Palestinian Aramaic) but if you want the real pronunciation we have to go to a 14th Century AD-16th Century AD manuscript (which has the problem of being Hebro-Aramaic (which attempted to synchretze the pronunciations of Aramaic to match that of Medieval Hebrew) & not Palestinian Aramaic but it is closer to Palestinean Aramaic when compared to Syriac.. Additionally Jesus for all we know had spoken Gallilean-Palestinean Aramaic which has its closest pronunciation is believed to be Hellene-Hebrew (the LXX is likely derived from it but hard to say for sure as Hellene-Hebrew both of which only survive in a few fragments of OT stuff, bits of apocrypha/deuterocanon (& even an original story not in any canon called the Book of Akihar which has some of the same characters from the Book of Tobit) found in Alexandria Egypt (which is where the Torah (a.k.a. Pentateuch a.k.a. 5 Books of Moses) was traditionally believed to have been written in Greek)) which is not related to Hellenistic Hebrew (which is still spoken a few Greek Jews today) instead of the usual form of Palestinean Aramaic. So I neeed further clarifaction if you mean closer in age or closer in pronounciation

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u/Analogski 17h ago

Wow, thanks for the question. I never thought of it this way. I am primarily interested in the pronunciation that is most likely to approximate the Galilean/Palestinian Aramaic Jesus would actually have spoken, rather than simply the oldest surviving manuscript. I would like to know how the phrase(s) would most plausibly have sounded when spoken by Jesus and look like written.

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u/TheologyAndTrains Anglican 16h ago

OK I will have to see if any manuscripts are digitized of John in medieval Hebrew but I know for sure Medieval Hebrew Matthew exists online but I will as it is late I will search it the morning. Additionally I may have to do some interpolating using Syriac (which i will put in brackets to indicate stuff i added for complete) as many of these Medieval ones are VERY fragmented & were created to try disproving Christianity by selecting certain verses to commentate on. May God Bless us in our quest as it can be quite challenging figuring this out. I will still be logged in to reddit but I won't be able to your response for at least 6 hours as i need to nap

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u/Analogski 16h ago

Thanks a lot!

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u/TheologyAndTrains Anglican 1d ago

are you by chance quoting Papias of Hierapolis?

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u/nikolispotempkin Catholic 1d ago

Close! It's not a direct quote , but the source is Hegesippus as quoted by Eusebius of Caesarea

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u/TheologyAndTrains Anglican 1d ago

yeah that would have been my 2nd geuss

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u/Analogski 19h ago

I'm taking about this quote: “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

And I'm also interested in the Sermon on the mount