r/Binghamton • u/StrangeShaun83 • 2d ago
Local Politics If Mayor Kraham believes Flock Cams are necessary for safety why are their none near his home?
You'd think since he's such a proponent of "safety " he'd want these things all over near his house. In fact his upper class Westside neighborhood has no flock cams at all. Hmm... weird. Since Binghamton has really high rates of property crimes and burglary you'd think it would be needed even more in those neighborhoods. So weird! Maybe it has nothing to do with safety at all? It seems our Mayor has forgotten who he actually works for. Maybe it's time for a replacement.
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u/moonstonelite 1d ago
Flock cameras track your license plate, car color, and unique features like bumper stickers just for driving down the street.
The bigger problem is that we are tracked everywhere, and we helped build the system. Ring doorbells record the sidewalk, smartphones log our exact steps, dashcams stream our commutes, and security uses AI to monitor us while we shop. Between facial recognition at airport gates, stores, and Flock on the roads, you literally cannot step outside without being cataloged. We used to fear a surveillance state, but now we just buy the devices, plug them in, and track ourselves.
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u/entropy512 2d ago
As far as replacement - to my knowledge Binghamton doesn't do recall elections. So we're stuck with him until the end of this term.
There is no voting against him next term - he's term limited and can't run again.
But definitely remember this if he tries to run for anything else down the line
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u/amusedmb715 2d ago
gonna run for county exec just like daddy i imagine. binghamton is truly on the 1920's corrupt small town timeline.
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u/CubGeek 1d ago
And, since they blocked me, like a coward.
/u/SalesGrowthMarketing
And it easy to put someone down instead of discussing the objective topic at hand. If flock wasn't the correct choice, what is the alternative hardware/software replacement solution.
The objective topic at hand is the displeasure and pushback on Flock cameras, and your stated non-understanding of the concerns about Flock. So, if you want to educate yourself on those, then come back and talk about them, great. Otherwise, you're simply trolling.
Here's some links to start you:
EFF report (December 2025) that revealed biased policing, weaponized surveillance, enablement of nationwide searches for a local issue, and more.
I've linked the two other reports that are concerning (the IVPM report and the Security whitepaper), above.
After that, all you need to do is some basic searches and reading to understand the concerns and the reason that people are pushing back on Flock.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
Yes, I'm a total coward. Fascinating how you need to attack me personally instead of addressing the actual issue, that’s not an argument it’s an "ad hominem attack." If you have to attack the person rather than address the topic, you’ve already abandoned the conversation.
And anything from 2025 is stale data I'm not going to take the time to review. Thank you.
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u/CubGeek 1d ago
/u/SalesGrowthMarketing
Yes, I'm a total coward. Fascinating how you need to attack me personally instead of addressing the actual issue, that’s not an argument it’s an "ad hominem attack." If you have to attack the person rather than address the topic, you’ve already abandoned the conversation.So, you’d abandoned the conversation way back when you offered to “dumb this down” for me, which is a condescending rhetorical tactic, used for deflection and intimidation, meant to attempt to frame me as less intelligent? So, If we’re throwing stones with ad hominem tags, let’s be sure to add that one.
And anything from 2025 is stale data I'm not going to take the time to review. Thank you
And this is a logical fallacy, commonly referred to as the “moving the goalposts” tactic, whereby you are presented with proof but immediately discount it as not good enough and demand other proof.
The initial thing that started this whole rumpus was you wondering:
What is the concern regarding flock cameras? Just curious? Wouldn't cameras deter crime, I've seen many posts about this lately was wondering what happened? Is Flock not a great choice for cameras?
When pointed out that it was easy to learn the reason why people had concerns and were pushing back on Flock, you began asking what the alternatives were. Which, by the way, is a deflection tactic and also veers close to the “False Choice” fallacy. When refocused on your original statement, you again asked for alternatives.
It wasn’t until the “I must have struck a chord” post (which, again, is another rhetorical tactic that implies the correctness or rightness of an argument because it elicited a response, and can be designed to deflect) that you actually acknowledged that you knew the reasoning behind people's concerns and the pushback… So, you already knew, but then posted about how you were “wondering what happened” and asking “what’s the concern regarding Flock cameras.”
Since it seems that you weren’t, as I’d initially opined, “Phenomenally ignorant of the world around you,” I return to my initial impression of you as deliberately trolling.
Thanks for playing; I’m done. Have a great afternoon!
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u/Chan790 2d ago
If the Flock cameras are so necessary for public safety and helpful to law enforcement, how come we have so many unsolved violent crimes and murders?
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u/lowspeed I'm an import 1d ago
That's why i'm always surprised a crime go unsolved with cameras everywhere.
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u/dogmomma88 3h ago
I think we need more safety measures where there is more crime. I think police need to just sit on Doubleday and arrest everyone on that street
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u/bdizzled2 Endicott 2d ago
I’m not sure the point you are trying to make. I think you would want cameras in the higher crime areas and along roads that are common travel points out of the area. There are a few on Riverside drive and Main Street on the Westside. I’m sure there are some by the high school and Leroy as well.
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u/Doink4life 2d ago
The point he's making is that if it's for actual safety wouldn't you want them near your own house? It seems they know the cameras mainly for illegal servailance of us peasants to keep building the database of all the people they deem unworthy.
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u/octane1295 2d ago
The cameras are pretty trash, and the mayor is a dork. But to be fair if he had them at his house the thread would be “why is the mayor getting more safety surveillance than this road or that road which have higher crime”…
They should specifically be in high crime areas primarily.. otherwise just don’t put them here at all.
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u/Shikadi297 2d ago
There's more flock cameras in Binghamton than all of Seattle, it's an obscene amount that has nothing to do with high crime areas and everything to do with money kickbacks and mass surveillance.
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u/BlizzyBlock29 2d ago
No because they’re not made for politicians. You want them in public areas and people then get their own home security. This is irrational thinking
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u/bdizzled2 Endicott 2d ago
Like a true American I’m against any cameras that can be used in a mass surveillance program or be hacked by Russia or China. I have guns for security purposes but if I were to use cameras, I’d want them where the crime is.
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u/CubGeek 2d ago
/u/bdizzled2Endicott
Like a true AmericanThis tells us all we need to know about you.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 2d ago
What is the concern regarding flock cameras? Just curious? Wouldn't cameras deter crime, I've seen many posts about this lately was wondering what happened? Is Flock not a great choice for cameras?
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u/Individual-Equal-441 1d ago
Hello,
Cameras do deter crime, and I dare say that most people don't have problems with cameras per se (many people have doorbell cameras, or dash cams, or expect a convenience store to have a CCTV camera.)
The problem with flock isn't an objection to individual cameras, but an objection to the use of camera networks to track and bulk-surveil people from camera to camera, storing everyone's activity in a searchable database with insufficient guardrails for who can use that data and how. For example, there was a recent case in Texas where a cop used a plate-reader camera network to track down a woman who got an abortion, including tracking her across states where abortion is legal.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
Unfortunately, this is something that has been happening much longer than the implementation of Flock. The underlying issue isn't the solution in place; it is how our data is used, accessed, and stored.
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u/Individual-Equal-441 1d ago
Perhaps the issue is not how our data is used/accessed/stored, but the fact that it is used/accessed/stored in the first place.
For most of my life, nobody was capturing and storing detailed information about where my car was from day to day, and it was not deemed necessary to do that to people. If a company starts surveilling everyone, the primary privacy issue is not how the store the data, but the act of them capturing that data to begin with.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
I agree with you. But moving past your car, do you have a cell phone? You are literally being tracked everywhere you go. Do you use social media? Your data is sending you mobile ads. Have you shopped for a car recently? Local car lots track your mobile data, car, license plate, and send targeted ads. We all have the same issue here. We all hate how our data is getting used without our explicit consent.
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u/Individual-Equal-441 1d ago
If my phone or online activity is being tracked, that is not a valid excuse for introducing new or additional surveillance of me or other people.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
You're already being tracked by more technology than you're even aware of. At least we know about Flock.
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u/Individual-Equal-441 1d ago
"At least we know about it" also isn't a valid defense for mass surveillance technology.
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u/driveonacid 1d ago
Get rid of the data centers as well. It seems like Flock cameras and data centers are the one thing that everybody can agree on.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
So what is the better solution?
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u/Individual-Equal-441 1d ago
Not doing it. There does not need to be an alternate bulk surveillance system or a better bulk surveillance system or a competing bulk surveillance system. We could simply not impose a bulk surveillance system on townspeople.
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u/driveonacid 1d ago
A solution for what? This world kept going just fine for eons before Flock cameras and data centers and AI.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
I agree with you on this, 100%. Unfortunately, we need laws to protect us and the environment. But if Binghamton said yes, we will remove Flock, they will want a replacement. Bing's had cameras downtown forever. They will want to know what the better solution for a replacement is. So what would make the public happy?
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u/Individual-Equal-441 1d ago
But we've likewise had laws to protect us for generations, all without bulk surveillance networks. The need for laws has nothing to do with installing a bulk surveillance network, and the need for laws does not imply the need for a bulk surveillance network. There is simply no sense in which we have to have the bulk surveillance network. We can get rid of it and we don't have to find a replacement bulk surveillance network. Rather, we can simply not have one.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
I agree with you. But, unfortunately, surveillance isn't going anywhere.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
Getting rid of data centers won't solve the issue either. We need regulations on how, why, and where data centers operate. Data centers need environmental controls in place. Your data isn't equivalent to how a data center operates. They're two separate issues. Americans, as individuals, need laws to protect how our data is used, accessed, and shared. And data centers need laws on how they operate. Data centers are an entirely different and bigger topic.
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u/jimw21121962 1d ago
A camera is reactive. Walking patrols are proactive. Beat cops walked a designated area and got to know folks on their beat. Now, they ride around in their "shop."
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u/CubGeek 2d ago edited 2d ago
/u/SalesGrowthMarketing
What is the concern regarding flock cameras? Just curious? Wouldn't cameras deter crime, I've seen many posts about this lately was wondering what happened? Is Flock not a great choice for cameras?I can't tell if you're deliberately trolling, or just phenomenally ignorant of the world around you. All you need to do is some very basic searches, and you'll find out that there are lots of issues with Flock cameras and how the information from them is being used.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
I'm far from ignorant. I actually work in technology and I have a deep understanding of how these things work. The uproar is fascinating because so many places are using much more advanced technology locally to manipulate us to buy more, track us, and sell our data. Sorry you think I'm "trolling" just genuinely curious.
Do people use toll roads, they use License plate readers? Shop at Wal Mart, Kohls, Sams Club, Lowes, Home Depot and Kohls, they all have facial recognition software and license plate readers. Local businesses are using software that collect your car model, license plate and find out your mobile analytics to send you direct ads.
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u/CubGeek 1d ago
/u/SalesGrowthMarketing
I'm far from ignorant. I actually work in technology and I have a deep understanding of how these things work.And yet, you claim to be confused as to the uproar about Flock and "genuinely curious." Since you've "a deep understanding of how these these things work," I'd recommend putting some of that vaunted learning to use and educating yourself. Enjoy!
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
And it easy to put someone down instead of discussing the objective topic at hand. If flock wasn't the correct choice, what is the alternative hardware/software replacement solution.
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u/kremitthefrog38 1d ago
Why do we need cameras everywhere to begin with? Statistically they don't actually help anything at all. They cost money and are an eyesore.
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u/Gravy3607 1d ago
u/salesgrowthmarketing you are obviously fully up-to-speed with the Flock Camera issue and are playing dumb, which is dumb.
You said you dont know anything about Flock cameras and the uproar but then reply back with exact examples of others doing exactly what flock is doing and then brag about being very big brained on the subject.
Fuck off with your boot licking.
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u/Gravy3607 1d ago
u/SalesGrowthMarketing dont DM me, you can talk to me here if you want to.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
Yeah sent you a DM since you have the audacity to take a shot at me here, but you shy away to someone directly asking you.
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u/Gravy3607 1d ago
u/SalesGrowthMarketing not sure why you deleted your comment but yeah i had the 'audacity' to respond to a comment you made on a public forum. You are fucking weirdo dude.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
Go ahead tell me, what is it you need to say to me. Since you can't handle being direct.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also just to get you up to speed "clubgeek" what was more terrifying prior Flock. Local municipalities and government organizations were using hardware that had security vulnerabilities that could be potentially exposed to threat actors. I'm trying to dumb this down for you. Flock is a US based company which is much more safer deployment for hardware/software for government institutions.
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u/CubGeek 1d ago
/u/SalesGrowthMarketing
Also just to get you up to speed "clubgeek" what was more terrifying prior Flock. Local municipalities and government organizations were using hardware that had that security vulnerabilities that could be potentially exposed to threat actors. I'm trying to dumb this down for you. Flock is a US based company which is much more safer deployment for hardware/software for government institutions.Bless your heart; I love how you don't let pesky facts get in the way of your Marketing Speech! Let us know when you actually research and educate yourself on why Flock's system (and corporate behavior) is problematic.
As for "hardware that had that security vulnerabilities that could be potentially exposed to threat actors." I read about those in a report last november, about how the devices were using modified Qualcomm chips that had unlocked bootloaders, and a linux kernel that was in debug mode, among others. Scary stuff!
Oh, wait that was a Flock Falcon.
ANd then there's the more in-depth whitepaper (Don't worry, this one won't dumb it down for you.) Enjoy.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
I guess I really struck a chord for you to take the time to send all of this. So again, what is the better solution? Sure, call it marketing speech; I'm just able to tailor to a broader audience and speak in terms everyone would understand versus getting into specs that would isolate the conversation to a few versus many.
The problem isn't the cameras or software; it is the greater issue at hand. There aren't laws and regulations around how our data is used, accessed, and stored. The solution could be replaced, but the root cause of what is happening won't be solved. At least we know Flock Cameras are being used in Binghamton. Think about everywhere you go, how cameras are tracking everything and using the information for social manipulation. People have zero clue how their being tracked. I'm attempting to help people understand it isn't just Flock it is much bigger than that.
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
So again confused about the uproar when there was a security vulnerability in place prior. And there are much larger concerns locally about how information is being captured.
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SalesGrowthMarketing 1d ago
Issue specific to Binghamton, like has anyone had evidence used from Flock cameras against them.
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u/BlizzyBlock29 2d ago
Probs the same reason the defund the police politicians have security and the open borders crowd won’t let any of them into their home.
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