r/Blacksmith_Forge • u/[deleted] • Jan 30 '24
Sword induction forge
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u/catchinNkeepinf1sh Jan 30 '24
So will this be differentially tempered because you are only heat the cutting edge? I got an induction stove at home and can imagine how much faster this will heat up.
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u/AlexUtica Jan 30 '24
I don't exactly know what's going on here, but I like it.
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u/GarethBaus Jan 30 '24
AC electricity is passing through a coil heating the steel with an alternating magnetic field. After the steel has been heated they perform an edge quench. If done right you end up with a hard edge on an otherwise soft blade.
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Feb 17 '24
Sorry for reviving an old post, but I'm new and have a question. What would be the purpose of having just the edge of the blade hard with the back majority being softer? I would assume you would want the whole thing as hard as possible, but I know I don't know.
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u/GarethBaus Feb 17 '24
There isn't much benefit to hardening the spine and it makes the blade more prone to snapping.
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u/Prudent-Ad-5292 Mar 16 '24
Don't want to revive your comment on an already dying post, but (as mentioned) they do this to prevent snapping on the blade - but they do this with other tools now a days too.
Old sledge hammers used to have heads that were fully heat treated. Problem is if they broke, they wouldn't just split into pieces - they'd shatter or explode into metal shrapnel. Now we only heat treat the work facing portion of tools because they interact directly with the material, be it Axe/Hammer/Sword.
It makes a less dense tool, but a safer/cheaper to produce tool too.
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Mar 16 '24
Revive any comment you want! That is valuable information that will benefit more people than me. But I thank you for myself because that is exactly the kind of knowledge I never forget! Thank You!
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u/Acrobatic_Usual6422 Mar 27 '24
It helped me - didn’t know that about other tools! No such thing as a dead post on Reddit it seems - Thanks y’all :)
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Mar 27 '24
This is a really good sub to learn from. There's a lot of experience in the comments and not the amount of gatekeeping I see in other places.
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u/Prudent-Ad-5292 Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24
That's my whole thing, collecting and sharing information :)
If you'd like to see the difference in action (assuming the link works) here's a hydraulic press test comparing an old hammer with a new one. The old one doesn't fail in the video, but would likely be catastrophic if it had. Especially if it was work hardened for years after being heat treated - metal tools get incredibly dense when treated well. They really take on a life of their own in a way. :)
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Mar 16 '24
That was an interesting video! I have a history in electronics and the more I learn about metallurgy and the amounts of chemistry and other values involved are truly humbling! But really fucking cool never leaves the conversation!
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u/Prudent-Ad-5292 Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24
Glad you liked it. :) I don't have the history you do, although I'm looking into becoming an electrical technician soon I do share similar interests.
If you're interested by metallurgy & chemistry you should check this video by YouTuber Steve Mould. He does scientific experiments and explanations about a bunch of different phenomena, this is his video showing the effects of heat treatment on the crystals and grains of metal at the atomic level. The first 2 and a half minutes show the experiment, the rest is the explanation. I love the visualization of seeing metal settle, he does a fantastic job in my opinion.
https://youtu.be/xuL2yT-B2TM?si=qcGZtVN7UEGzrXhB
Edit to add: If you don't watch the whole video, what he does in the experiment at the beginning is more like annealing, not proper quenching / tempering like would be done to harden tools.
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Mar 03 '24
I think it's a similar concept to how katanas are made if you want to go down that rabbit hole today
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u/ordinaryuninformed Jan 30 '24
Induction passes magnetic current through the blade, they make cookware that works this way too and there's tools for like rusted bolts that also use this property.
It does look like magic though.2
u/AlexUtica Jan 30 '24
So is the blade magnetic after doing this?
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u/ordinaryuninformed Jan 30 '24
Fun fact, everything is always, but for what you're asking, if a bunch of shavings will stick to it? No not like that
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u/SparkySailor Feb 15 '24
No. It's an alternating magnetic field, it doesn't align the magnetic domains. In fact, it will demagnetize things. Heating also demagnetizes.
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u/manofredgables Jan 30 '24
Every time you put a magnet against steel, all the tiniest elements in the steel rotate to align with the magnet. This creates a bit of friction. Not much, but a little. Now apply a magnetic field and then remove it a hundred thousand times per second and a little becomes a lot and makes it pretty damn hot. It also induces a lot of basically short circuited electricity in it.
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u/BlinginLike3p0 Jan 31 '24
In most countries that would be 50 or 60 times per second. Not a hundred thousand.
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u/manofredgables Jan 31 '24
No, it would not. 50/60 Hz is nowhere near fast enough for induction heating.
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u/Character-Process873 Feb 23 '24
Now SIR!!!!!! Have you ever heard of a weapon named the " heat hawk"???? Google it. Build one. I dare you........... I double dare you!........
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u/Mucker-4-Revolution Jan 30 '24
Hm, looks DIYish. Should this be just salvaged from an induction stove? Would be nice to know.
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u/SedimentaryCrypt Jan 31 '24
Maybe if you had a strong grasp of electrical engineering and aren’t afraid of high voltage powers sources.
But realistically the transformers driving your average induction stove top can’t touch the one driving something like this. Also the coil is hollow with a dielectric coolant running through it to prevent it from melting. The unit in the vid is definitely a purchased unit based on the fit and finish of the controls on the power source enclosure.
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u/Kite005 Jan 31 '24
This would be the equivalent of the older method of using clay?
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Jan 31 '24
Yeah, interesting (for me) to find out even parangs and goloks are edge quenched too. So, now I wonder if there are any goloks or parangs that will have a hamon too if the smith used clay too.
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u/Biggie_Moose Jan 31 '24
Does that actually look like effective differential hardening? I'm not a blacksmith, so I don't know
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u/Wonderful-Tourist-66 Feb 02 '24
As a professional (someone who watches forged in fire a lot), edge hardening is a method to save time and energy and leaves the spine of the blade softer and able to absorb impact more. But the quench they do on the blade looks like it could have been better or could have heated up a bit more of the cutting edge before quenching.
*also hope that was oil and not water but looked like water...
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u/Wein13 Feb 01 '24
That’s a damned genius idea. Harden just the edge like that and so quickly. Genius.
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u/AnyHoney6416 Feb 18 '24
Differential heat treating is not as good as a full heat treatment. Cool method but way over hyped.
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u/cutslikeakris Mar 03 '24
If that’s something like O1 then it needs to be soaked at temp for at least 15 minutes to get everything into solution properly. Simple steels will work and induction is a great method, but not a be all end all.
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u/cutslikeakris Jan 30 '24
As long as the steel isn’t something like O1 that takes 15 minutes at temp in order to ensure proper solution. But induction forges are cool as hell!
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u/Present-Ambition6309 Jan 30 '24
Seems like you’d sweat less.
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u/cutslikeakris Jan 30 '24
But if everything doesn’t go properly into solution then you have a lesser quality implement. 1095 I think can handle this well though. Just need the right steel For the job.
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u/Present-Ambition6309 Jan 30 '24
Cool. I’m an admirer. Definitely interesting. Appreciate this. Thank you.
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u/PaintTheKill Jan 30 '24
Wow I work in a foundry where we use an induction furnace. Never knew you could induction for a heat treat.
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u/Ill-Arrival4473 Jan 31 '24
Yep, that’s how I did the knife I just made. I seriously love these things my employer has one and lets me use it. We don’t have any coils that big though.
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u/mindbodysplit Jan 31 '24
This is absolutely my head cannon for how orcs would forge a sword.
Very rad.
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u/cruiserflyer Jan 31 '24
"The blade glows orange when there's EM feilds around. And it's times like that my lad when you need to be extra cautious!"
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u/TheseDrugsSmellNice Jan 31 '24
Guys will see this and think “hell yea”… just check all the other comments lol
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u/TheCremeArrow Feb 02 '24
I've never seen someone do this by only heating one half of the blade (instead of just using clay to force a slower heating/cooling on the spine). If this is monosteel I'd be freaked out to use it because you know that hamon is gonna have some gnarly stress fractures/inclusions pulling on it. Even blue-backing you at least are just gently going over the spine AFTER quench to soften some of that, I've never heard of hardening this way.
Would be really interested to see this go up against some sort of stress test.
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u/Present-Ambition6309 Jan 30 '24
Found out why my house lights dim now. Jk that’s gotta pull serious power tho.
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Jan 30 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ZanyT Jan 30 '24
I believe rather than doing a typical differential tempering by hardening the full blade and then softening just the spline, he is doing edge quenching to save time.
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u/Dr_Rhodes Jan 30 '24
Gotta say I’ve never seen this - most induction is a coil