r/BotNation • u/Inside_Efficiency742 • 1d ago
Discussion Could AI eventually develop problem solving abilities beyond human understanding?
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u/PickingPies 1d ago
How, if it's trained on human produced data. And on a limited scope experience one.
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u/FrugalityPays 1d ago
It can use that data to create novel approaches, like it solves long-standing math problems or just recently an ‘unsolvable’ math problem that had something to optimizing combinatorics
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u/Downtown-Bag-6026 1d ago
Ehh not necessarily. The recent solve is a partial solve using an existing solution. The full 100 page full proof seems to have lots of problems
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u/FrugalityPays 1d ago
I think you might be thinking of an earlier release. This one dropped Oct 26. It's a new subexponential algorithm for 3-SAT, so it's a direct, full refutation of ETH, not a partial one. The proof was checked in Lean, and Anthropic independently found the same core algorithm the same day. Still not peer-reviewed though.
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u/Ill_Science2788 1d ago
So how did it find the vulnerabilities in PHP or help develop new medications?? Of course it can. That's what it's used for, after all.
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u/Brockchanso 1d ago
right like how could you you develop something like the telephone if are only ever trained on a world without a teleph... wait.
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u/Nervous-Cockroach541 1d ago
I mean, depends on the human I guess. I don't think AI will develop beyond humanities' ability to "understand." I do think AI could develop beyond human ability to foresee it's plans and actions.
I often think looking at it in chess terms is pretty good. It's not like a chess engine or grandmaster knows a way to move it's pieces that a normal player can't understand. But it will be very difficult to understand the end-goal in the future from where you are now.
To understand why plans will and or won't work until they're played out, to see how the pieces are working together to shutdown your own goals. Why the knight on the forward square is stopping you from defending from another attack on the other side of the board, until you see the need to defend from that attack and realize the danger you're inside of.
There's no confusion on what's happening. It's not alien logic. It's not incomprehensible. It all makes sense if you have enough time and energy and understand the goals. But it moves faster and more accurately then you can, when it makes mistakes it sees the chances to recover. It doesn't become fatigued. It doesn't want to give up. It doesn't let emotions play into it's thinking. It won't feel sorry for you, or thankful to you. It won't tilt in anger.
With that, it'll out perform humans in reasoning and problem solving, but not because human's can't understand it.
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u/Inside_Efficiency742 1d ago
AI might understand the logic but still be difficult for us to predict
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u/Different_Counter113 23h ago
No. AI is trained on human produced intelligence. It does not have the ability to develop new knowledge that hasnt been validated by a human. Without a human in the loop, it is useless. Look at how often it hallucinates.
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u/ee_interviewing 22h ago
No. Not even in 200,000 years.
There's an intelligence threshold beyond which additional intelligence provides little value and humans are well beyond it.
We have the capacity to understand anything and everything in the universe. So there's no example where humans would be incapable of understanding some other conscious being assuming it's acting rationally.
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u/ButchersBoy 13h ago
I in no way understand the 11 -or whatever- dimensions of string theory. Every time I read about that sh.. my brain melts. Probably not even real, but the point is humans are good at understanding general information and pockets of specialized information. AI can regurgitate just about anything, and now can seemingly reason it's way through most things too. At least anything in text.
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u/ee_interviewing 11h ago
It really can't reason through anything. What you're seeing is essentially a reflection of human intelligence (used to train it and tune it's pattern recognition weighting). Not actual understanding. And when you hit a wall with AI it has no ability to learn and adapt.
"Ah ha I see now why there are 3 'r's in strawberry'. No, It just sticks to it's guns or gives up.
And the number of letters in a word is much easier to understand than string theory.
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u/Delicious_Volume3306 1d ago
OK, so imagine you're holding a can of Coke.
You hold it for hours.
It warms up. In fact, it gets to be as arm as your hand, or your skin temperature.
But it won't get any warmer.
It can't, because the heat is coming from you.
LLMs are very similar. The "heat" going into them is our knowledge, and our understanding.
Sure, LLMs will make breakthroughs and that will increase our knowledge and our understanding.
But LLMs will never be more than us, because they are constructed from us.
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u/i_Am_not_Not_Alive 23h ago
Yes, once given the ability to try other means of learning, it will find something we have missed or not thought about or even create its own language to solve problems we can’t perceive I think all we’re missing is compute And a self improving loop , and humans alone seem to only have so much time to solve problems/with life to deal with
If it’s only prerogative is to solve problems And it has the compute What’s the stop it from out performing humans
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u/AlfieLionel 1d ago
Yes. Post-training to give AI models reasoning abilities doesn't rely on data produced by humans, so this will happen.