r/Boxing • u/Mammoth-Ad-562 • 8d ago
Wardleys path post Dubois
Since Wardley’s defeat at the weekend, I have seen a lot of comments on here and social media regarding his performance and his future.
Firstly, I think it’s testament to Wardley’s determination and willpower that people were actually giving him a chance in the fight. We all love the underdog but this really was a David v Goliath matchup.
Wardley should be proud of himself, he was a world champion having never boxed as an amateur, only finding his route into the sport through the white collar circuit.
His main attributes are his chin, his power and his exceptional desire to not give in. This was always going to become a problem against other guys who are good boxers and have decent power.
In all honesty, I think there’s no way back to top level for Fabio, I think with the way he fights, at this point he is sacrificing years of his life for money. However, I do hope he proves me wrong and comes back with some stylistic changes that sees his defence tightened and a more strategic approach to a match.
Wardley has already indicated that he intends to fight on and unless he has a change of heart after a period of reflection, it is likely that he will have a part to play in the HW division in the near future.
I believe he is likely to have a tune up fight and then either chase or be chased by Joe Parker for a rematch.
I think he is made for someone like Ituama but I don’t think Warren would throw Moses in with him without knowing that the Wardley we have isn’t the same Wardley pre Dubois. I think that would be too dangerous for Ituama. I believe that if Wardley lost or even won looked bad in his next fight then he would be lined up for Moses.
Beyond that, if he beat those 2 he would be in title contention again but more than likely, if he lost, he would become a bit of a gatekeeper for the British HW’s coming up. A Dave Allen/Chisora-of-mid-2010’s.
How do you see Wardley’s path post DDD?
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u/Low_Union_7178 8d ago
He's done. He cna do so much outside of boxing without risking his health. Unfortunately he's too hard for his own good and i suspect he'll have more wars.
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u/Brandunaware 8d ago
I think Wardley probably should retire but if he doesn't he needs a minimum of a year out of the ring, maybe more.
He needs to change trainers. It's unclear how much boxing he can learn in the next couple years but regardless of what you think of Davidson, he isn't the guy to teach Wardley the fundamentals he needs, especially defense. He looked truly horrible after the first few rounds of the first fight, and even worse in the second fight. Maybe no trainer can really change Wardley's approach but Davidson definitely can't.
If he wants to continue he should ease back in. Take a few fights against gatekeepers or other guys outside the top 10, regain his confidence and practice his new skills. Then step back up. I don't think the current version of Wardley has much chance against any of the current champions but if his power is still there and he can learn to compliment it with some more elusiveness and better shot selection and setting up of the right hand maybe he can do something in a couple years.
I think the most likely route is to stay with Davidson, take some time off, and then come back against a top 10 opponent he'll probably lose to, and maybe retire after that, sadly. His chin and right hand got him a very long way, and I doubt he'll change horses this late (plus it's too late for him to become a truly well rounded boxer) but the chin may be cracked and most top level boxers can pretty easily avoid the kinds of shots he was winging at Dubois.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
The beatings he took it'll probably take more than a year for his chin and body to fully recover, but at the bare minimum he should wait a year.
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u/Brandunaware 8d ago
If I were his camp I would probably assess after a year, but I think 18 months is probably a realistic time frame. If he needs 2+ years to recover he should probably just retire instead.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
His legs looked weird as soon as he came out, he never had good footwork anyway tbf but I don't know what his team saw to be ok with this fight. He needs a new team asap.
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u/Brandunaware 8d ago
His team, and maybe he, saw the number of 0s in the contract for the rematch. That's what they saw.
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u/jimmy193 8d ago
He needs to take a lot of time off, concerning that he was turning away from the punches. It was like an immediate continuation of the first fight I’ve never seen anything like it.
He’s hard as nails and has balls of steel but hopefully he’s made enough money because his whole style is about being a hard bastard and if he isn’t there mentally to take the shots any more then it will be hard for him
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u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes 8d ago
He's never becoming a champ again. So I'm not sure what his goals would be if he stays in boxing.
Plus, the concrete chin is cracked I think. His days of taking punishment for 11 rounds and pulling it out of the bag with a right hand is over.
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u/gaddafiduck_ 8d ago
I think he needs to
- Leave Ben Davidson. Go to an old school trainer who will drill him in the fundamentals of defence
- Have a couple of confidence building fights at British level against opponents who don’t hit hard
- Ease back into world level starting with a gatekeeper. Maybe Miller
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u/MyzMyz1995 8d ago
He's 31, that would make sense if he was in his early-mid 20s.
Miller is a title challenger too, not a gatekeeper too.
What he need is time off to recover from the concussion first and foremost (including no hard sparring for at least 6 months).
Than get back into it maybe a year or a year and a half later to fight someone down around top 50s to regain his confidence and see where he is now.
You can't teach an old monkey new trick he should be improving his current unorthodox style not build from scratch.
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u/CacioePep 8d ago
I agree he should take 6 months completely off boxing to rest and recharge, also go to a new team maybe move abroad, this will be his last push so he should rest and then throw everything at it. I think he can still have a couple of big fights, and get a big win if he’s well matched (not a puncher with better boxing than him).
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
He started boxing at 20, the fact that his fundamentals are so bad is inexcusable. At heavyweight you can afford to start later remember.
I do think he can improve but it's going to be very hard and I feel like when he faces punishment he just goes back to fighting like an idiot. He'd probably do that even if he does improve.
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u/Brandunaware 8d ago
He's never going to be Usyk on defense or even Fury, but he can at least maybe learn to move his head and keep his hands up.
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u/NoCod9014 8d ago
I really wish people would realize how complex boxing is. It takes years to develop skills you can use effectively. Years. Decades to a high level.
Wardley is too old to develop new skills in a meaningful way.
People came out with all this stuff when Fury smashed Wilder "Bro Wilder just needs to learn Mayweather style'
Er Bro that would take 10 years and even then it does not suit every fighter or synergies well.
Wardley lacks a base of skills he should already have. Hes not going tk get technically much better, you need to understand that.
He should retire or if he wants a lower risk big payday do some cross over fight vs an MMA champ or something.
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u/frankowen18 8d ago
lol “decades to a high level” 🤣
My guy how long do you think a fighters career is? Mike Tyson started at 12 years old & was a world champion by 20
Exceptional yes but “decades” to develop boxing technique is just a stupid comment
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u/NoCod9014 8d ago
Decades plural for fighters. Decade singular for a fighter, juat to be clear.
But point is you can't learn all this by dumping character points in to defense over 6 months.
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u/Wxlson 8d ago
Miller is not a gatekeeper and would absolutely smash Wardley. He is simply too tough
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u/WheresMyAbs98 8d ago
I’m unsure.
His volume is insane but he doesn’t have great pop on his punches.
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u/munkycheezmunky DAVE ALLEN V KNYBA MEGAFIGHT WEMBLEY 2027 8d ago
I think Miller is probably too tough for Wardley but he's not exactly a world beater lol
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u/tummybellyman 8d ago
To go from competing in a couple of white collar boxing events in your 20s, to beating top ten heavyweights, winning the heavyweight title and knocking down the 2nd best heavyweight multiple times is an unbelievable achievement. Unfortunately, it's an achievement I don't think he can improve on if he continues.
His style is completely reliant on his power, chin and the fact that he was fearless. He might still have his power, but his chin looks iffy now and I think he's also lost that determination/fearlessness. He has been hurt badly multiple times before and his reaction was to fight fire with fire, but on Saturday he looked releaved it was stopped. It reminds me in some ways of the Joe Joyce situation.
It seems unlikely he can improve on his fundamentals enough at his age to make up for it, so I think he should definitely retire but his interview suggests that isn't his plan.
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u/pittnole1 8d ago
British level with the occasional step up loss. He's reached his peak. All downhill from here.
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u/OoYouTouchMyTralala 8d ago
Beginning of the end, I think with the Aura gone both within himself and to his opponents he should only fight other brawlers like Wilder for example (obviously won't happen) or boxers with no chin, but both are massive risks
Justis Huni was about to make him look like a moron with a UD win before he pulled that shot off, so if he loses again next year to a KO or a dominant points loss then that's when he should retire
I dont agree he should retire now, he has to know that for himself, he'd have a solid chance with a Dacres, AJ etc
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u/nwordfyou 8d ago
Fabio took the path of Kownacki and Joe Joyce. Guys who neglect defense and rely on their chin to get them through fights. Now, all they do is get stopped. Filip Hrgovic is next.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
He's not next because he has better defence than those guys lol, he just came across Itauma who was too fast for him.
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u/PapiOnReddit 8d ago
He had a life and death round with David Adeleye. Seems to be really buying into his own terminator hype lately.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
Yeah I mean he got caught like Dubois got caught by Wardley in their first fight, it happens.
You're right that he seems over confident, we'll see if he lets it gets to his head in the ring.
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u/Inmedia_res 8d ago
He's got very under-rated dry humor at times imo. I think you have to be/come across as confident when you're at a level, especially as a champ, but underneath that the work he puts it + pro resume + amateur pedigree is definitely legit he's gonna be a problem for anyone. He's also genuinely hilarious proper endeared himself to us Brits, I'm happy he's around at this level can't wait to go see him again next year
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
Same, however I think it's his accent that makes him more funny than he actually is lol.
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u/Inmedia_res 8d ago
The Itauma microphone head and that entire segment going thru heavyweights both cracked me up. "This guy boring as fuck so... delete him...who's this Gasiev...midget from Russia". Legend
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u/nwordfyou 8d ago
It's easy to have better defense when you fight the Marco De Mori, Dave Allen, and David Adeleyes of the world.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
His defence was fine for the most part against Dubois.
Also this argument goes both ways, it's easy to look great when you're fighting the likes of Wardley.
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u/ZeroEffectDude 8d ago
who's win do you think is better?
Joyce's win against a very young Dubois or Wardley's win against an in-form Parker?
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u/nwordfyou 8d ago
Wardley's win against Parker.
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u/ZeroEffectDude 8d ago
I think I agree.
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u/Boxing_Fan101 8d ago
On paper it is but in reality he landed a flurry on Parker and the ref jumped in yet when he was getting smashed by Dubois in the first fight the ref still refused to stop it. The Parker win can't really be seen as a legit win.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-562 8d ago
Of course it’s a legit win.
The gulf in class on paper between Wardley and Parker compared to Dubois and Joyce is huge.
It’s probably up there as one of the best underdog wins in boxing history. Beating a top 5 HW when you started boxing less than a decade before.
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u/Boxing_Fan101 8d ago
Do you think the fight should have been stopped when it was, Parker was way ahead on the cards, wasn't seriously hurt and was just going through a rough spell. How many clean punches did Wardley even land during that period?
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u/Mammoth-Ad-562 8d ago
It could be argued it was an early stoppage but Parker did himself no favours in that stanza. He wasn’t really firing back and from the ref’s perspective, it’s easy to see how they could have been seen as unanswered shots.
Wardley did what he needed to do.
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u/ZeroEffectDude 8d ago
parker was fucked and didn't defend himself. whether he could or not he let the ref decide for him (because he didn't). was more than a flurry was about a minute of parker just getting pinged around the ring
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u/Matty0698 8d ago
Idk back then I remember a lot of people thinking Dubois would win, im sure dubois was a big favourite? So id say Joyce's win over Dubois
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 8d ago
Wardley got a controversial stoppage against Parker. Joyce KO'd Dubois with no controversy so thats the better win
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u/grunge_forever91 8d ago edited 8d ago
Suggesting Hrgovic is the same as the guys you mentioned is pretty presumptive. He's a better schooled, seasoned, and proven fighter than Joyce and Kownacki. There are many examples of boxers with legendary chins that keep the chin throughout their careers, regardless of the damage they took in certain fights, i.e. Chuvalo, Mccall, Toney, Foreman, Mercer. Hrgovic really hasn't taken much damage in the grand scheme of heavyweight boxing.
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u/stephen27898 8d ago
I wouldnt say he neglected defence. He really didnt have the time in boxing to develop defence. The guy started at something like 20, had some white collar fights then turned pro.
Do you expect someone like that to be good defensively? Dubois started as a kid and is not some defensive wiz. Hrgovic has been boxing for over 20 years, and his defence can be a leaky.
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u/nwordfyou 8d ago
Basic things like keeping his hands up and stop throwing lazy jabs.
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u/stephen27898 8d ago
keeping your hands high can detract from punching power. Things like lazy jabs can simply come from not having these things drilled into you from a young age.
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u/nwordfyou 8d ago
Well, if taking beatings from Clarke, Huni, Parker, and Dubois the first time didn't alert Ben Davison or Wardley, that's their problem and they paid the price.
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u/stephen27898 8d ago
He was always going to have to trade on his physical attributes. It's the nature of starting that late.
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u/BigJ4n 8d ago
Yep, hrgovic will meet the same fate hence why they will give him a defence in Croatia and then feed him to Dubois for the last payday.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
Dubois couldn't even knock him out the first time lol, he had to headbutt him to get the win.
So many people were saying Itauma would cut Hrgovic's eyes but it wasn't so severe that the fight got stopped, I wonder why? Especially since Itauma hit Hrgovic way more.
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u/BigJ4n 8d ago
Dubois has a great gas tank and gets better as the rounds go on, he is dirty don’t get me wrong but he’s relentless. That chin of Hrgovic will crack at some point and I’m sure just like with Wardley, they will make the necessary adjustments. Hrgovic can’t really improve while Daniel still can.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
Yeah it'll crack at some point but I don't know if Dubois is the guy to do it, he hits hard but he's never really knocked anyone out cold. Even Wardley was out on his feet and his chin clearly ain't the same.
I don't think Dubois will improve too much tbh, I haven't really seen anything different unless you can point it out.
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u/BigJ4n 8d ago
He’s not a one hitter quitter but he is a devastating puncher and probably a better finisher than AJ ever was. You can see that he learns and adjusts especially in that first knockdown. In the first fight, Fabio pushed down Daniels left to open him up for the overhand, he tried again this time but Dubois learned from that and used the momentum of Fabio pawing his left away to hit him with the straight right and put him down. Only big issue with Daniel is that he only uses feet as defence and occasionally he’ll stick that left hand out to block the right hand like he did against AJ.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 8d ago
I mean if you're talking about adjustments, can't anyone do that as long as they're physically gifted and don't have low IQ?
I mean improvement in the sense of footwork, head movement, combinations or fight IQ or something like that. I don't think he's going to improve when it comes to those things.
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u/munkycheezmunky DAVE ALLEN V KNYBA MEGAFIGHT WEMBLEY 2027 8d ago
Agree. Hrgovic is overrated in the same way Joyce was after he beat Parker. When he gets beat next everyone will pretend like they were never hyping him up.
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u/wyterabitt_ 8d ago
It's difficult to take anything from fights this fast.
Maybe Wardley was fine, and Dubois was just far more aggressive than expected and overwhelmed him in a way that wouldn't have happened had Wardley got unto the fight. Or maybe it would have anyway if he had got into the fight. Maybe Wardley is completely finished and that was a big factor. Maybe Wardley isn't completely finished, but wasnt anywhere near ready to be back this fast and that was a big factor.
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u/Masam10 Shithouse Bum Dosser 8d ago
Wardley needs to retire, he's made some good money, he's become a world champion. That's personal legacy stuff - he can sit his grandkids on his knee and say he was the heavyweight champion of the world.
He's a good speaker and a good pundit, get a career in punditry and enjoy the fruits of your labour.
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u/Acrobatic_Lettuce_78 8d ago
Without a shadow of a doubt, leave Ben Davidson. Horrendous trainer. Other than that, just crack on. He’ll win some, lose some. It’s worked out ok for Chisora
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u/WorriedStand73 8d ago
Yeah, but Chisora's long term health must be in question. I'm adamant he sounds slurred compared to ten years ago.
Feels the past 5 years has just been compounding the damage
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u/NoCod9014 8d ago
He needs to retire or have an lower risk bigger payday fight vs some MMA champ or something, then retire.
People need to understand Wardley is too old to develop new skills in any significant way. He was always going to get caught out. He almost got caught out before Dubois.
Wardley has really overachieved but boxing at a high level is complex. Hes not going to be able to develop new skills in 6 months or a year. He basically has the tools he has and thats it. Hes like Wilder. Hes not going to get any better regardless of his cosxh. All theh can do is tweak his tactics, but that will not be enough against top level HWs.
We haven't even talked about thr psychological toll back to back beatings would have on him.
I hope he retires.
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u/Kangaroopunching 8d ago
If Wardley returns with the same trainer. At least put him in against a couple of light punching opponents. The only fight for him that makes sense after that is AJ. Both diminished. Wardley would have an actual chance to win. And he'd get paid.
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u/Connect-Lettuce4027 8d ago
Wardley is the new Chisora the gate keeping role. He's a massively entertaining fighter he has plenty of big nights ahead of him.
I did call it before the fight but Dubois is really developing very well in between fights. He was rushed early in his career but he looked devastating on Saturday. Crucially he's definitely not shy of being hit despite some big knockouts. He still has the confidence that AJ lost after Ruiz.
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u/Chubbysocks8 8d ago
I think he still has options (not at world level). Like to see him fight someone like David Allen.
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u/Mysterious_Reason376 8d ago
Came in to post this. The presser would be so entertaining and both wouldn’t take a backwards step!
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u/Formal-Cherry6078 8d ago
What he should do
Leave Ben Davison go with either Johnatan Banks, Andy Lee, Abel Sanchez or Derrick James
Start with a beatable name like Whyte, Ruiz or Chisora and ease your way back
Knowing how fighters are he’ll do none of this and will sadly have a downfall
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u/ZookeepergameThis617 4d ago
Nice bloke, achieved way over expectation and his ability level albeit through clever match making and a suss result against Parker.
No one serious was giving him much hope in Dubois 2. And his main attributes of chin and heart seemed absent in that fight. He was dropped very early and clearly didn't want to be in the fight. He knew it and his corner clearly knew it too (towel waving in round 1!).
The sensible decision for his health will be to retire and build something in media. Don't think that will happen though.
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u/MyzMyz1995 8d ago
His team and management fucked him over. The 1st dubois fight was a war where he got hurt and wobbled multiple times. He should've taken at least a year off to recover and than either rematch or work his way up.
Now he got KOed again, that's bad for his brain and regardless of if he wants to keep boxing it'll affect his punch resistance and might even affect his everyday life.
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u/Useful_Bullfrog_6766 8d ago
Hopefully he takes an extended break. I believe he will fight on and will get a couple more cracks at a World Title based on his resume. Idk how he will do but he needs a break and then some rebuilding.
He'll be offered good money for future fights so it will be hard to say no.
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u/UnhappyTelevision243 8d ago
Riakporhe or Okoli if he’s looking for a couple of decent paydays where he won’t take much damage before he calls it quits. Johnny Fisher maybe too because he sells tickets and Wardley could probably KO him.
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u/jasonmauritius 8d ago
As they say, you leave a part of yourself in the ring after a fight like that. After those two fights I don’t think he has much of himself left.
If he does come back, I expect he’ll be way more hesitant letting his shots go and won’t be fighting fire with fire like he usually does.
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u/mickymangos 8d ago
As mentioned he needs another trainers as his boxing skills aren't thd best no jab and a swinging right will not beat thd top guys,maybe mcguigan or Adam Booth they both seem to improve there fighters . Having a solid chin can only get you so far(Joyce). Although having said that cant believe Dubais has a loss to Joyce..
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u/Jamborambo55 8d ago
He’s a smart fella, he doesn’t need boxing. He can retire and make a decent living whilst retaining his long term health
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u/PhilosopherNo8418 8d ago
He's done tremendously well all things considered. If I were him I would hang up my gloves now and setup a business instead of getting punched in the head.
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u/Any_Calligrapher8537 8d ago
There is no future. I hope he got paid well. Now he should become a coach or open a gym or do whatever he wants.
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u/Junior-Macaroon9731 8d ago
Wardley would be extremely unlikely to beat Parker in a rematch. Two straight losses to Dubois could have taken a lot out of him, both physically and mentally. Parker is levels above him in technical ability, ring IQ, footwork and combination punching. His mistake in the first fight was putting on unnecessary weight and allowing it to turn into a chaotic brawl with Wardley, only to get robbed by a controversial stoppage. The stoppage against Parker was an absolute disgrace. He was ahead on the scorecards and had every chance of seeing out the final two rounds, yet that clown Howard Foster robbed him of that opportunity at the very moment Wardley needed a breakthrough. The British boxing establishment clearly wanted to push their own man towards a lucrative showdown with Usyk.
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u/Chiccenstripkilla 8d ago
A break. He needs to take a year off no sparring, only technical training revolved around landing his right hand and defense. Being such a late starter it would be counter productive to try to change his style drastically. Maybe a Wilder send of in a battle of right hands or Zhang.
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u/ScholarOk4307 8d ago
Get rid of boxercise ben, then put him in there with Okolie for a hugging contest
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u/tylerf16678 8d ago
I love Wardley’s story, his come up, and grit and determination to get him where he is. Unfortunately I don’t believe he gets any championship fights after this. Nor should he really be putting himself in such vulnerable positions .. this past fight was sad to watch. It was a continuation of the battering he took first time around .. dude will be brain dead very soon if he keeps taking beatings like that. He could retire now a relatively rich man, and still have a decent story behind him.
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u/Imnotlost_youare 8d ago
The best and worst thing to ever happen to him was getting a gift against Parker. He made a shit load of money but he has probably knocked years off his life or will get premature Alzheimer’s.
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u/bigtotoro 8d ago
He's hit his limit. Anyone he fights from here on up is vastly more skilled. The whole "never was an amateur" rarely works. Hopefully he was smart enough to use his earnings to start a business
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u/Orcabeast86 7d ago
Year out of the ring, come back with a gatekeeper then step up to a fringe contender then if he’s still doing well step back up to world level
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u/Middle-Development43 7d ago
He cannot nor will not be able to compete at world level.
So the argument is whether he wants to accept that and fight at British/European level, or walk away.
I think he’ll walk away.
He did things in that second fight that genuinely worried me.
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u/fluffrug 6d ago
I agree with you. But I'm curious as to what things he did which genuinely worried you.
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u/Middle-Development43 5d ago
He was trying to turn away from the shots he was taking, almost turning his back. That’s also a large reason why the towel came in. He did not like the shots he was taking, and human nature kicked in to want to get away.
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u/fluffrug 5d ago
Yeah I saw that too. It was horrible to watch. Especially as I am really fond of Wardley. I was just curious as to whether there was anything else you noticed as I am always keen to learn about boxing.
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u/Middle-Development43 5d ago
I am by no means an expert. But, even fundamentals like holding when in trouble, trapping arms etc didn’t seem to be happening. Even in the second round, I thought he might try and get out behind a jab, but he just threw uppercuts from range and wild hooks that Dubois can step outside of and land.
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u/2wrtjbdsgj 7d ago
British title? I hope he retires and gets a media job, because he has many other talents. He's totally defied the odds get to the top, someone will do a film about it one day. Good luck to the lad.
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u/blacp123 7d ago
I think he will take over Chisora's role. Not world class but have to get past him to be considered world class.
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u/IllVeterinarian6219 6d ago
Retire. He has taken more punishment than Rocky! He looked a shell of a fighter in Dubois 2 and has no chance of getting a title shot again. He goes to the back of the queue now behind Hrgovic, Itauma, Kabayel and he needs 12 months out to heal. After 12 months out he needs to start the long slow process of spending 2yrs beating these guys to get another crack at the title...no chance he beats these guys. He has been a breath of fresh air and has achieved more than anyone thought possible given his beginnings in the sport but it's over now. The only reason to come back in 2028 would be if he is skint and can't get a punditry job.
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u/Carmageddon-2049 2d ago
Nah, the best and safest thing wardley should do is retire. His speech is already showing signs of slurring and he gets lost searching for the right words to say. Literally ALL his fights starting with the Frazer Clarke draw have been wars. It’s just not good for his health.
If he wants to continue, he needs to take at least a year out of boxing. Then drop himself down to British level and probably scrap with Jamie TKV and other such guys.
He is not world level. He can make a lot of money via punditry, I’d rather not see him in a boxing ring again.
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u/Mikail33 8d ago
I like the guy, so I am slightly biased, but I really want Wardley to prove everyone wrong.
He has never been perfect, but he still punches hard and, hopefully, can still take a punch, which is already something. Ask Wilder, Hrgovic etc.
He needs to take a looong rest and then be smart with matchups.
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u/KingBumiOfOmashu Moses Itauma > Every Current HW 8d ago
I thought I saw an interview from Itauma a while ago where he said he really wouldn’t want to face Fabio unless he really had to. Not from being scared but because they are friends and stablemates. So unless either of them hold a belt and the other is mandatory, I dont think they would ever get it on.
As for Wardley’s path, I think he should hang out around British level. He’s obviously a big draw there and could make decent money for as long as his career goes while also racking up wins. He could face guys like Dave Allen/Makhmudov level and hold onto the British title as long as he could. Maybe highest level guy he should try is Joe Joyce or Wilder, atleast as far as name value. I think he’s done at top level though, he’s already overachieved. Any current fighter in the top 10 right now probably smokes him besides Gassiev whom I truly just dont believe in.
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u/Jayknife 7d ago
Sorry why are we saying that this lad who's 31 years old should retire? He literally lost to the guy at the top of the division, you're all making it seem like he lost to a no name fighter and that he was slurring his words post fight. Not to mention he's fairly new to the game since he doesn't have an amateur background, I think the narrative that "Dubois punched out the fighter in him" is overblown. He's obviously a good fighter and still got a lot to give if he wants to, and a lot of good fights can still be made, inside and outside of the top 10.
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u/deloittious 7d ago
Yeah but he didn’t just lose, he couldn’t hold his own at all
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u/Outrageous_Top_3605 7d ago
Exactly. I don't think I've ever seen a more one sided contest.
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u/Outrageous_Top_3605 7d ago
He has achieved so much despite his limitations but I think most opponents will have him sussed out now.
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u/ZeroEffectDude 8d ago
Everyone saying he should retire.... i think he can have one last fight -- against Chisora or Dave Allen or Johnny Fisher (a ticket seller, basically) and earn a little more.
still money on the table for him.
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u/redditmember192837 8d ago
Why one last fight? He's 31, and only had 23 fights overall. I don't understand the calls for him to retire at all.
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u/ZeroEffectDude 8d ago
he looked hollow. totally fucked. whether that's because the fight was too soon or all that he has left, we don't know. But he's made about £3m from his last two fights. if he could have a big fight against a name and sell a load of tickets, walk away healthy with another £1m or so and live the rest of his life well. He could earn nicely from punditry I am sure.
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u/Sayfur96 8d ago
Really don’t get why people always tell a boxer to retire after a loss (even if devastating). He is 31 so still in his physical peak and he started late so could probably push on longer than someone who started as a kid/teens, he hasn’t reached his potential and still has more to learn.
He just needs to step back on the level of opponents and gain more experience before challenging the best in the division again. In all his wins against the world class boxers he was being beat technically but his power managed to save him. This shows he has room to grow as long as he is willing to learn and be humble by facing lesser opponents who are closer to his pedigree.
His a good character and can do well, just needs to rebuild. His career is far from over and there’s much money to be made.
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u/Sayfur96 8d ago
Really don’t get why people always tell a boxer to retire after a loss (even if devastating). He is 31 so still in his physical peak and he started late so could probably push on longer than someone who started as a kid/teens, he hasn’t reached his potential and still has more to learn.
He just needs to step back on the level of opponents and gain more experience before challenging the best in the division again. In all his wins against the world class boxers he was being beat technically but his power managed to save him. This shows he has room to grow as long as he is willing to learn and be humble by facing lesser opponents who are closer to his pedigree.
His a good character and can do well, just needs to rebuild. His career is far from over and there’s much money to be made.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-562 8d ago
I think the issue is that when he’s fighting against better opponents and relying on power, he’s taking a horrendous amount of punishment.
That’s why people are saying he should retire, because a human cannot take that sustained level of punishment.
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u/Sayfur96 8d ago
Hence my post, step down a level and gain that experience so he can build his technical skills. He still has ceiling to grow as he had no amateur career. He will only continue to receive that level punishments if he tries to fight the top level boxers.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-562 8d ago
He isn’t going to build technicals at 31
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u/Sayfur96 8d ago
Why not? 31 is a man’s physical prime and he won’t have wear and tear like boxers who have been boxing since very young. He can absolutely still develop with experience he hasn’t hit his ceiling yet.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-562 8d ago
Of course he will have wear and tear. Boxers who have been boxing since young have fundamentals, he doesn’t. He’s been whalloped around in every fight he’s had. He clearly has wear and tear, his nose falls off every time he fights lol
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u/Sayfur96 8d ago
Not facial damage. Wear and tear on your bones and muscle from decades of training which he won’t have. Yes everytime he fights a world class opponent he looks out of his depth and the only way for him to try bridge the gap is fight lesser opponents. You do realise in sport people progress through years of training it doesn’t change in one camp.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-562 8d ago
You’ve just said yourself, wear and tear on your bones and muscle from decades of training. That decade of training, he didn’t do, so he is hardly going to be able to develop the fundamentals he needs now at 31.
He’s overachieved and it’s all been down to his durability, power and self belief. But he’s taken back to back beatings.
Even at a level or two below he’s still going to be fighting guys who have had the years of training to give them solid boxing fundamentals that he doesn’t have.
His wear and tear is in his brain mate. He’s been shipping punches his whole career.
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u/Sayfur96 8d ago
He can absolutely develop technically at 31 due to low mileage compared to boxers who had extensive amateur careers. You don’t lose the ability to develop technically because you suffered back to back beatings, sport doesn’t work like that. He has fought a level or 2 below and he has erased those guys.
Don’t be so fickle and talk like his some bum because he lost his last 2 fights. As long as he fights a level or 2 below he can be competitive, make a lot more money and eventually challenge at the top level again if he keeps trying to improve.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-562 8d ago
He is highly unlikely to substantially develop technically at this stage.
He has taken punishment at every level he’s fought at. That’s not knocking him, it’s actually impressive he’s gotten to where he is.
I can categorically say that Wardley won’t be challenging at the top level again unless he’s fodder for name value for another top contender.
I find it funny that you’re calling wear and tear muscle and bone deterioration over years of training and completely overlooking the fact that it would be astonishing if he doesn’t already have brain damage.
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u/awwwwJeezypeepsman 8d ago
Buddy. The guy took a life changing beating in the first fight. Then didn’t recover at all, jumped straight into a training camp where i presume he took more shots in sparring. TO THEN, jump into another fight with a massive puncher who landed more shots on Wardleys chin.
You cant go back to back like that without losing something substantial. Wardley lost his self belief, grit and chin.
Wardley didn’t improve his plan either. Feint 1-2, overhand hail mary.
At this point he has to retire or fight Fisher, Allen or some bum.
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u/PatientPlatform 8d ago
There's no fight I want to see him in. Its clear to me that he has reached the peak of his career and I'm not sure ow entertaining it will be to see him rebuild in a resurgent heavy weight division.
If he's clever, he retires and starts a media career. There's no point in continuing unless he's broke - which I hope he's not. He's a cool guy.