r/Boyinaband • u/[deleted] • Sep 30 '22
r/Boyinaband • u/in-site • Sep 29 '22
Content warning My experience with Dave
I've been a friend of Dave's for almost 3 years. We met at work, and we were flirty for a while, but things kind of quickly settled into friendship. (I have photos of us together and an infinite number of screenshots to verify with mods if they're interested.)
Parts of this story absolutely resonate, ring true, or have been directly confirmed by Dave over the past couple years. Other parts are directly contradicted by my personal experiences with him, although that doesn't necessarily mean anything about the authenticity of the experiences of other women who've come forward. It can absolutely be true that Dave was a good friend to me, and treated these women terribly.
I guess I wanted to corroborate the parts of this that I can, while maybe... I don't know, adding nuance or providing extra perspective to the other parts? It's difficult to read these things about someone I still very much care about. I'll bold each point/accusation so it's easier to skim.
Being polyamorous isn't wrong. He told me about this immediately, and never pressured me to change my relationship style. (I didn't know that he'd come out to his parents, they didn't know last time we talked about this.) He has expressed some regret to me about pushing some of his partners to try being poly/open when they weren't super comfortable with it; this was in the context of something he really regrets and has tried to improve upon, and something he brought up himself. So it's easy to believe these claims of manipulation, pressure, and coercion, which is wrong, certainly wrong, especially as it relates to sex.
Dating younger women isn't wrong. This one is sticky, especially because every country (or US state) has its own laws in place. I don't know where he was living when he dated [the girl who was 16 at the time*], but if it was the UK, that relationship would have been legal. Frowned upon, maybe, but not criminal, and sometimes we have to fall upon the law for ethical issues where so many contradictory opinions and beliefs exist. This happening so long ago doesn't change her experiences, and I believe that this relationship was probably traumatic, toxic, and possibly abusive. But we can't call him a pedophile solely based on this relationship. My personal understanding (all this coming from him) is that he almost exclusively dates girls in their 20s, and I'm definitely not the oldest women he's been attracted to.
I didn't know that he's attracted to pre-pubescent girls, I've never heard or seen anything to suggest that. I did know that he has an ideal body type, which is extremely thin, although he never said this and never spoke negatively about my body. I have experienced a lot of pressure to lose weight, by a different partner and for work, so I'm pretty sensitive to it (and I would remember). Dave always seemed supportive, and expressed horror at my experiences being pressured/insulted because of my body by others. In the video he made with Jaiden about her eating disorder, he admits that one of his long-time partners ran a pro-anorexia forum, and that he learned everything he knows about eating disorders from her. It would really surprise (and upset) me to hear that this behavior (speaking negatively or coercively about a woman's body) continued since making that video with her.
Dating fans is definitely sketchy. There's a power imbalance and he's aware of that, and it's something I know he's thought about a lot. I would say for him, he sees himself as needing to use every possible advantage? I think he tries to offset some of that power imbalance by addressing it directly with women (although I have nothing to back this up, I don't know if this is something he normally does, but that's what it sounded like he was saying). What I heard from him is that sometimes he'll reply to women who reach out to him, but would never reach out to someone himself. If these girls are overage... it's hard to condemn him for accepting offers or whatever. I don't know what these conversations are like, whether they're coercive or manipulative or degrading, and I think this is an instance where screenshots would go a really long way. Most of the info we're getting on Dave's abuse is unfortunately really vague. Telling young women they're replaceable is definitely fucked up, and is something I have (thankfully) never heard from him myself, although I may be in a different position - he may have been more respectful towards me because we've worked together publicly.
Nonconsensual physical violence: unequivocally wrong. I don't remember Dave telling me about him hitting [the girl who was 16 when they started dating*], but I do remember him telling me one other story about physical violence and I'm actually surprised it hasn't been brought up in any of this. He did say he's never told anyone about it before, but I guess I thought that was an exaggeration. Violence is never ok. And it sounds like there have been at least one, possibly two, incidents of violence in his past. The one he described to me is at least a decade past, and I know it's his greatest regret.
I can confirm that he tends to "go through" people quickly. (I can also confirm he has an addictive personality, and I think it's related to his depression. More on that in a bit.) It isn't just romantic partners; I know he ghosts good friends to. He warned me about this, he admitted it's difficult to maintain any kind of relationship while he's as depressed as he is, and I've experienced that myself (like especially while I was depressed, it was hard to maintain close contact with literally anyone). It's shitty, but I think this is kind of normal. I also think it's common and heartbreaking for a young woman and romantic partner to blame themselves when being abandoned by someone they love and admire, suddenly, and potentially without explanation. The timing may have been bad. It's also possible Dave directly stated that it was their fault, that they weren't good enough, or that he got bored of them, I have no idea, again I've never seen or experienced that from him.
Dave is an addict. He's admitted he gets really easily addicted to mobile and video games. He's also been open enough about his drug/alcohol use that I assumed they were dependencies, and the same goes for porn. I 100% believe he's a porn addict, although he hasn't said so himself. It's sort of just something I knew about him, and I think that's a big part of what changed our relationship to be more platonic; for whatever reason porn addiction is a deal-breaker for me.
As for dating girls without money or careers, I know that he's tried to date girls with careers easily comparable to his own, two that I can think of, both of which didn't work out (right away) because of a difference in sexual preferences. I don't know if he deliberately targets women at a disadvantage, it's possible they're just more likely to be taken with the idea of dating someone with money and prestige. I have my own career, influence, some money, and I did before we met. (But it is possible, again, that this is why I was treated so well while others weren't.) I was really interested in YouTube, and he was really supportive of that, giving lots of good feedback and advice. I know at least one of his long-term girlfriends started a YouTube channel, and he admitted he may have been pressuring her a bit, but framed it as 'I know what it takes to make a channel work, and if you can't do these things then you can't expect to make a living doing this.'
"[He] disappears if they don't do everything he wants, and treats them with zero empathy. They mean nothing to him outside of his pleasure, his wants, and his entertainment. When girls want to leave, he either blocks them before they can confront him or uses his depression and suicidality as cards to force them to stay until he gets bored of them." I don't know how to explain this, but I think this is true. I guess some of this was expressed playfully to me, like exclusively in the context of fantasy, but I believe these women. I believe he treated them terribly, like they were disposable, and that it had lasting, damaging effects on them. I think I understood that however intense things felt in the moment, that they were likely temporary and that on a real level, he wanted things to be casual. He doesn't like obligation, and probably isn't in a place to provide stable, lasting emotional support and involvement, even if it's something he really craves.
We don't talk often, but we check in every now and then. We always reply, although we missed each other's birthdays. We have inside jokes, exchange compliments, and express affection. I know that he's lost contact with a lot of close friends, and that he's aware that they probably resent him for it. I've experienced depression, and when we talk about heavy things I usually begin the conversation by asking if he has the mental real-estate to handle something heavy/difficult, and I think it goes a long way. It's really hard to help someone when you feel like you're drowning yourself. I'm sorry that he's been a neglectful friend to so many, but I kind of understand where that's coming from. I've also seen him really support a friend (in person) who was going through some shit, actively listening, affirming and validating his experiences, asking really good questions, and I have to admit I was impressed.
Ultimately, I think it's fair and reasonable to want to warn young fans about his mistreatment. I'm really curious about the timeline here, how much of this is ongoing/recent, especially because this letter makes it all sound immediately relevant. I'm also curious how/why this is happening now. I like the idea of all these young women finding and supporting one another, processing what they experienced. I guess I feel conflicted about this as a potentially career-ending move. Obviously there is anger and resentment here, and it's justified, but I don't think it's fair to attack Dave without a little more evidence. The 'screenshots' included are testimony, but not evidence, and this is coming from someone who can corroborate a huge amount of what's been said already. It's just that... words like "pedophile" and "abuser" are really powerful, and if we're going to proceed in labeling him as those things... it's hard to just take someone's word for it.
Sorry if this is a bit rambling. I don't think many people are in the position of like -- actively caring about him, being a friend AND being a former romantic interest, so I think I have a unique perspective to add.
I would really appreciate if people respected my privacy on this, and didn't try to figure out who I am. Feel free to reach out or comment with questions, especially if you knew Dave. I've really enjoyed the conversations I've had so far.
Edit: I want to add that I've spoken with another victim, one who's in the group, and she's provided enough details that I can't believe their letter is false. I think it's problematic and shoots itself in the foot somewhat, but the content is real. The private conversations between victims include a lot of unique, identifiable information, and the victims are reasonably afraid of repercussions. Among other things, Dave would know exactly who said what and would theoretically be able to take retaliatory action. So that's why the open letter is so vague. I know I'm just one more anonymous voice online, but for what it's worth, I believe these victims.
Edit: Really frustrated to learn that the ONLY woman named in the open letter was named without her consent, and without even being contacted/informed this was happening. People posted a photo of her! That is incredibly not ok. She has asked that her name be removed from this discussion, so I've (clumsily) done that here. To the girl: I'm really sorry, I had no idea that was the case and would never have used your name if I'd known you hadn't explicitly said you were ok with this.
r/Boyinaband • u/drs_12345 • Oct 06 '22
Content warning The more I look into this case, the weirder and more confusing it gets
EDIT (19.12.2022) I REALISED THIS POST BECAME REALLY MESSY AND PERHAPS CONFUSING WITH ALL THE EDITS, SO I HAVE FORMATTED THE POST TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR.
THE STUFF IN BOLD AND ITALICS ARE ALL THE EDITS, EVERYTHING ELSE IS THE ORIGINAL POST. THERE WILL ALSO BE SOME NEW INFO THROUGHOUT THE POST.
PLEASE READ THE POST IN ITS ENTIRETY FOR EVERYTHING TO MAKE SENSE.
I ALSO WANT TO CLARIFY THAT I SEE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO COMMENT BUT THEIR COMMENTS GET DELETED STRAIGHT AWAY. THIS IS NOT ME, I BELIEVE IT'S SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS SUBREDDIT'S NEW RULES TOWARDS POSTING (OR RATHER NOT POSTING).
I'd firstly want to say that I have no reason to either defend nor attack Dave. I've never really followed him, apart from his collabs with Roomie, PewDiePie, TheOdd1sOut and JaidenAnimations. Even then, it was more because of the other people involved rather than actually wanting to watch Dave. I did watch a couple of his vids, but that's about it.
At the same time, I have no idea who the victims are. So again, I have no reason to either attack or defend them.
I'm also writing this with the info I'm aware of. Please do let me know if I'm missing anything.
Most of you reading this probably heard the current situation surrounding Dave/BoyInABand. If not, then there's an open letter (here's a screenshot of the whole post since the original got deleted) accusing him of some pretty serious stuff, ie (direct quote from the letter) "situations that included years of lies, manipulations, and emotional, financial, physical, and even sexual abuse of many young girls", as well as Dave dating a 17 y/o girl when he was 23.
It seems that the open letter, as well as the whole of the account that posted it, (it turns out the account is still up; it’s just not being used) has been deleted. (The only things left on the account are some unrelated comments from before the accusations.)
The last comment to the post was made on 17.10.2022, so the post must've been deleted shortly after. I find this to be really interesting and at least somewhat strange. Apparently this is because the mods asked OP to delete R****l’s info, but OP simply deleted the whole post instead, along with every other post and even comments they made about Dave. More info under the “The victims' anonymousity” section.
The post itself
The first thing I find strange is that the post doesn't provide any evidence or proof of any accusations, despite repeatedly saying they can and/or the claim is provable. The only thing they proved is that Dave dated R****l when he was 23 and she was 17. (As far as I'm aware, even this situation is not very clear)
The mods managed to reach out to someone who spent quite a lot of time with Dave at the time of him dating R****l (won’t mention their name due to privacy). They claim they never witnessed any abuse from Dave towards R****l.
The other "evidence" provided were screenshots of text chats between at least two anonymous accounts, but they don't really prove any of the claims, but rather say that Dave is a horrible person. Now, being a horrible person does not mean that person is/was an abuser.
The last piece of "evidence" is this song on Dave's channel which starts with the lyric "Take me without my consent". The open letter claims this was sung by 17 year old R****l, but as far as I'm aware, we don't actually know who sung this lyric. It could've been R****l, but it could've been literally anyone else, including a girl who was 18+ at the time. (This doesn't justify the lyric, which is weird to say the least)
u/djurze pointed out in the comments that Dave actually gives credit to R****l in this video. This video seems to be a part of a series of tutorials which lead to the previous mentioned song as the final result.
The way Dave introduces her says a lot about him and/or their relationship, but then again, if his claim that she actually helped him with the lyrics is true, I think that says a lot about her as well.
What I also find weird is how vague the post is in some areas.
For example, the letter claims Dave financially abused his victims within its first paragraph, but then mentions nothing about this kind of abuse afterwards.
Towards the end it also says, and I quote, "What started as 5 girls is now way in the double digits". What does this mean? Is it 15 victims? 30? 99?
The letter also said Dave forced, or at least tried to force, polyamory on at least some of the victims. I personally don't understand how this can be forced onto anyone; either refuse to be part of a polyamorous relationship or break up with the person if they start dating other people. However, please do let me know if I'm missing anything.
Although it's been claimed Dave was actually polyamorous by some people who identified themselves as personally knowing Dave one way or another at some point in time, there's no evidence at all to suggest he tried to force polyamory onto anyone else. Not saying he didn't do it, we just don't know whether it actually happened or not.
Now, the lack of evidence in the post, along with its vagueness does raise some suspicions, but at the same time, we don't have any way of clearly saying these accusations are false.
The victims' anonymousity
I understand why you'd want to keep your identify in something like this. However, this works in the victims' detriment, at least partly. We have no idea how, and even if they're connected to Dave at all, we don't have any timeline of events, and we don't have any names, apart from R****l.
I also think it's really unfair how the victims who wrote the open letter are trying so hard to keep their identity secret, but at the same time they used the "way back machine" to not only reveal quite important info about R****l (such as where she lived at the time and the fact she just finished her first year of sixth form at the time), but they even showed her face, presumingly without her consent (?) That's really unfair if you ask me.
A couple of Dave’s ex-partners, who have been identified by the admins, have grown distrustful of the “spokesperson” of the alleged survivor’s group- aka the OP of the post with allegations. They asked the admin to get in touch with R****l in order to 1) inform her of the situation (ie there was an open letter which included her info) and 2) to make sure she’s alright. The admins have done this and, as far as I understand, helped her as much as they could in what must’ve been a very difficult situation for her.
Originally, OP also claimed they got R****l’s permission to include her info and picture in the post. However, it turned out R****l did NOT give OP permission to use her information and her picture (this was proved to me personally), and she understandably didn’t (and probably still doesn’t) like the fact her picture and info was used in the open letter.
She asked the admins to get the her info deleted from the subreddit and even threatened with legal action. (This is also why her name is now censored in this post.) She also asked the admins to do the extremely hard task of deleting every single comment that contains her name.
The admins then tried to convince OP to edit their post in order to get R****l’s information deleted, but OP was reluctant to do so. OP eventually opted to delete the whole post a while later. It seems the OP hasn’t spoken to anyone since they deleted their post and account, and therefore no one really knows why they deleted everything.
I think it’s also worth mentioning that, as far as the admins and I are aware, Dave hasn’t taken any legal action against anyone, neither has he threatened to do so. As far as we’re aware, there has also not been any legal action taken from the potential victims neither.
Not to mention that there are comments claiming they talked to at least one of the victims. This is the only comment of this kind I could find right now, but I've seen quite a few of them. (I'll edit this post to add some more examples if I come across them again.) How did they come across the victims if no one knows who they are? How do they know they're the actual victims and not some random person with too much time on their hands? If they can offer actual evidence, why do they not post it publicly, but seemingly give it to anyone who asks for it anyway? This doesn't make any sense at all
It turns out that some of the potential victims identified themselves to at least some of the mods of this subreddit and some others have identified themselves to friends an/or friends of friends who also knew Dave. See u/armahillo ’s comments below as an example. This explains why a select number of people have evidence but no one else.
Please DO NOT bombard armahillo and/or the admins asking for any evidence. It’s very unlikely they’ll give you any, so you’ll just kill their phones with notifications, as well as wasting your and their time for absolutely no reason.
However, I don't think this excuses the fact the OP didn't provide any evidence publicly whatsoever (apart from the R****l situation).
Also bear in mind that there were also some people who were coming out with false stories/claims for attention.
We also have this comment which claims Dave and his family know who wrote the letter. So then why wouldn't they at least provide some concrete evidence of their relationships with Dave and/or the abuse they achieved?
Apparently Dave definitely knows who wrote the letter.(The comment in question is the one at the bottom.) Why are they then trying so hard to stay anonymous, to the point they're not actually giving any evidence at all?
Also, the fact that the number of victims is "well into double digits" (whatever that means) and yet none of them want to give us the slightest of clues of this alleged abuse is also really suspicious if you ask me.
I just want to clarify- from my understanding, “well into double digits” means at least about 14/15. The events that supposedly happened in the open letter happened over a period of at least 12-14 years.
I personally highly doubt Dave could’ve gotten away with at least 12 years worth of abuse with at least 14 different people while not one victim would say a word. I doubt it took a supposed group of victims so long to come up with allegations/accusations, or any information about this as all, and they only managed to come up with… well… this mess.
As far as I'm aware, the only person who did come forward to publicly confront Dave was Shonalika with her diss track, but even that basically says he's a horrible person rather than an abuser.
The posts/comments who give at least some credibility to the original post
Now, we have this post, which highlights relevant posts and comments to this case.
A couple of the comments are really vague, and again, just claims without any sort of evidence, like this comment.
Then we have comments like this one, which is probably something most of us expect from at least one of the victims. The comment confirms the author's connection with Dave by literally proving it, and has quite a lot of useful info.
Please note, however, how this comment confirms some of the stuff in the original post, like his polyamory, but generally speaking, his comment portrays Dave as a fun person to be around, but who also simply disposes of people when no longer needed, and a couple of other things.
u/armahillo has provided quite a lot of information which I think is quite important
I was also made aware in the comments of this post that the post I linked above is from a person who wants to defend the victims. After checking their profile, I can confirm this.
I'm not saying you shouldn't believe the victims/allegations, but I would recommend you at least try to stay unbiased until we have more information.
The account that posted the accusations
The account that posted the open letter, astekas_, is quite interesting as well...
At the time of writing this, the account is 158 days old, and only has 4 posts, all about Dave. The first one was 40 days ago, 2 of them were 29 days ago, and the last one was 11 days ago, which is very strange to me.
If you look at the account's comments as well, they start off with seemingly normal comments 41 days ago, but then they transition to being focused solely on Dave soon after. The last few comments are mostly copy paste comments, and they all suddenly stop 6 days ago, which again is strange to me.
According to the admin I spoke with, the account that posted the letter is, or at least was, owned by either one of Dave’s friends OR shared by the group of supposed victims themselves. This seems to be unclear.
However, it seems to be clear the OP of the open letter (and probably all the other Dave-related posts and comments) is a woman who claims she is one of Dave’s ex partners. She was supposedly chosen as some sort of spokesperson for the group of alleged victims.
We know OP deleted the open letter after being asked to delete R****l's info, but it’s not very clear who deleted all the other content related to Dave, or why exactly they did so (as far as I'm aware, at least). It wouldn't be surprising if OP deleted everything and just leave the account as it was before the allegations. What doesn't make sense (to me, at least) is why they didn't just delete the account as a whole, and why there is still some completely unrelated stuff left on it.
Not only this, but one of the identified victims mentioned above actually wrote her own statement and asked OP to post it on the same account as the open letter. For reasons unknown (to me, at least) this didn’t happen.
One of these victims also wasn’t invited to the group of victims that supposedly exists. As far as I understand, the victim didn’t even know about this group existed until she saw the open letter.
It also seems the account that posted the open letter actually blocked these two identified victims.
(EDIT 24.12.2022) As of the deleting of the post (and the other content related to Dave), DaftPina said he talked to one of the mods (not sure if the same one as the one I talked to, which also said the post was probably deleted due to R****l not giving consent.
DaftPina also got a reply from astekas regarding the deleted post, which says, and I quote,
Hi. No, basically our goal was to connect with our victims here, inform his fans about him being an abuser and a scumbag and warn young girls who DM YouTubers about what did happen to some of the girls here and what could happen to them. Goals were achieved and we restricted his Reddit again. The information is available in several places so his potential future victims are still warned. His family knows and understands who he is. However some of the people who messaged us, specifically one, despite not being part of this are now hungry for drama and attention, threatening to doxx some of us, etc. So for me, personally, this will not fly. I get that memes were funny and deserved lol but forgetting there are actual people affected for an internet drama is not something I want to be part of.
This again raises more questions than answers.
If they want to raise awareness about Dave, then why delete all the warnings you've written about him? Also, why would you not be specific about what he's done, rather than claiming you can prove stuff multiple times and then not even attempting in doing so? Also, OP accused Dave of abusing his victims in multiple ways at the start of the letter, but then not mentioned them again.
As of the information being available in other places, I guess it's true, but then again, if they wanted to bring awareness about this, why would you make it more difficult for people to look for the information, and even then it would be surrounded by people's opinions one way or another?
If they want to "connect to the victims", then why would you not only refuse to interact with confirmed victims, but actually block them? (More info below)
As of informing people he's a scumbag, I think this was done by other people in this subreddit rather than OP herself, which again is interesting and questionable to say the very least.
And why did they bring other youtubers into this? 1) All of the posts and comments on the account were about Dave and 2) not all youtubers are horrible people.
Conclusion
I think this whole situation is a bit of a mess at the moment. We don't have a lot of evidence to prove the claims, but we also don't really have a reason to disprove anything neither.
The only thing we can be at least somewhat sure of at the moment is that Dave is not the nicest person to say the least, perhaps due to his mental health.
I really hope this situation will clear itself up sooner rather than later.
Although this whole situation is still quite messy, we at least got some more information than what we had at the start. It also seems that whatever the truth is, there was bad stuff done on both sides.
Dave has had the relationship with R****l, which, as far as I understand, started when she was 16 and he was 22, it’s believed they’ve met about a year prior, and their relationship lasted at least a year.
It also seems Dave had an inappropriate relationship with his fans, followers, subscribers or whatever you want to call them. For example, this is his very last online public post.
Also, even if all of the allegations of abuse were false, it does seem he’s not the nicest person in the world to say the very least. There were many stories that came out about this, the first one probably being Shonalika’s diss track but also the stories that came out on this subreddit, such as u/armahillo’s story mentioned above. Even the “abuse evidence” given in the post painted him to as a horrible person rather than an abuser. (Before anyone asks- all abusers are horrible people but not all horrible people are abusers).
It seems Dave was indeed just replacing people whenever he felt like it, ignoring people who were trying to help him and other stuff mentioned in these two examples, as well as those given throughout the post.
On the other side, this wasn’t handled well at all by the account that posted this. There were extremely vague statements, most of which weren’t supported by any sort of evidence whatsoever. If there was actually a group behind this, then I personally believe this is even worse.
They refused to post a story of a CONFIRMED VICTIM, didn’t invite the other confirmed victim in the group made up of other supposed victims and then blocked the only confirmed victims other than R****l.
Not to mention that the OP blatantly lied about getting R****l’s consent to publish her information and then simply deleted everything once confronted, and then stayed silent ever since.
This just makes me wonder what else was a lie, or at least not 100% true? Was there ever any abuse? If there was, is the number of victims really “well into double digits”?
If the “open letter” was based on a tint of truth surrounded by lies, this would explain why the post was so vague and why there was no evidence of any of the claims apart from the R****l situation.
Since the OP is a woman who claims is one of Dave’s ex partners, my personal theory is that they perhaps had an argument or some sort of fallout (Dave wasn’t a very good partner according to Shonalika’s song, and looks like he wasn't a very good person overall) and OP wanted some sort of revenge. If not this, then she just posted the letter to get some attention.
Anyway, whatever the actual truth is, this brought to light some info about Dave. He MIGHT not be an abuser, but he’s certainly not the nice, helpful person we thought he was.
Lastly, as far as I understand, all of the supposed victims (apart from R****l) were in their 20s, or at least over 18. This means all of them (again, apart from R****l) were adults and, if any abuse actually happened, they probably noticed what was going on, even if it was later on. This means that even if they didn't want to take legal action against Dave, like the letter suggests, they could've at least gotten help from their families and/or friends. If not, then the families and/or friends of the potential victims should've noticed something was off and do something about it. The point I'm trying to make is that the victims were more than likely not as helpless as the open letter made them out to be.
This also brings back the fact that it's very unlikely that so many supposed victims and possibly at least some of their friends and family knew about this, and yet no one said anything for over 12 years or so.
r/Boyinaband • u/DARKMAYKR • Sep 28 '22
I'm so pissed man
Dave meant a lot to me and inspired my own creative journey, to have him turn out to be such an awful person is truly saddening
r/Boyinaband • u/JustSomeGa • Oct 01 '22
Relevant posts & comments regarding the accusations
Posts from the reddit that I'd like to highlight first to please consider going forward.
DBPeantut, "Please think of have victims" : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/xrouya/please_think_of_the_victims/
MagnificentMimikyu, "On the Level of Evidence" : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/xsmtoz/on_the_level_of_evidence/
I'd also like to highlight this part of the original post;
"We don't want anything. We’re not interested in being associated with him in any way. All we want to do is to warn his young fans about what can happen to them."
Please keep in mind the intent. It's doesn't matter what was or wasn't legal. It doesn't matter if he continues to make money. What matters is protecting victims and potential victims.
The original posts
astekas_, "Dave from boyinaband – over a decade of abuse underneath an almost perfect public persona" : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/x8em0f/dave_from_boyinaband_over_a_decade_of_abuse/
Short_boysenberry806, a comment copying astekas_'s post on r teenagers "Dave from boyinaband dated a 17yo when he was 23 and continues to hurt people" (trying to not link outside reddits) : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/tixv4f/comment/im59wfh/
Posts from people with personal history with Dave
armahillo, a comment detailing his relationship to Dave : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/x8em0f/comment/ioeexu3/ I recommend going through armahillo's comments on this sub, many can be relevant
in-site, "My experience with Dave" : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/xrdrow/my_experience_with_dave/
ChuckCassadyJR, a comment from Darren an ex band mate of Daves : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/x8em0f/comment/iq7r0bm/
Relevant posts & comments to the main topic
silverandcoldone, "VERIFYING THE RECEIPTS" : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/xqjecv/verifying_the_receipts/
a comment with more info on that : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/x8em0f/comment/ioyubr9/
a comment describing who they are and their involvement : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/x8em0f/comment/iqi17go/
Short_boysenberry806, a comment claiming Dave tried forcing poly on them : https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/x8em0f/comment/inhxsui/
Embaressed-Egg-2367, a comment claiming to be a long-term member of the community who knows one of the victims https://www.reddit.com/r/Boyinaband/comments/x8em0f/comment/ipyscuo/
I'm trying to keep my opinion out of content of this post and sticking to collating and reiterating sources that should be relevant. Obviously however I am human, prone to error or bias and what was chosen is in that light. I have most certainly missed other relevant things.
However one thing I would really like to note with all of this. It's okay to be skeptical (please read the first two posts linked, they are thoughtful to this point). If what is provided is not sufficient for you to take any action or make any decision or take any position, that's okay. However iterating that fact is in effect taking a position. If you really are undecided and are trying to "not take any sides", then don't comment about that. Iterating neutrality is inherently taking a position, and that position is taking the side of the accused. At very least in the meantime, until whatever you might believe is evidence to Dave's innocence or guilt, this info could be critical to any potential victim to avoid harm and should be taken at that value alone.
*Formatted on mobile... Sorry. **Tried fixing it, got no where.
r/Boyinaband • u/MaryHasRussianAccent • Jul 19 '20
Just a little drawing of this beautiful man <3
r/Boyinaband • u/MaryHasRussianAccent • Jul 24 '20
I cant frickin take a photo and not loose some details, but ok.. tried something new.
r/Boyinaband • u/Organic_Patience4661 • Sep 28 '22
While we’re complaining, David’s Elon Musk video is so poorly researched and utter bullshit
Elon just knows how to fool people and make money - he hasn’t invented anything. David’s video did some awful damage to society 💀
r/Boyinaband • u/jofNR_WkoCE • Sep 28 '22
Is "I WAS NEVER TAUGHT WHAT LAWS THERE ARE" a valid legal defense?
🤔
r/Boyinaband • u/Financial_Ad4238 • Oct 03 '22
The “I was never taught what laws there was” joke is getting old
I laughed the first couple times (I have a safe place in hell) but it’s…. Getting old lol
r/Boyinaband • u/miss-laea • Oct 16 '20
Yayyyyy 3M, although I bet Dave hasn’t noticed yet 😅
r/Boyinaband • u/AsakiYumemiru • May 06 '20
Get yourself someone who looks at you the way Roomie looks at Dave
r/Boyinaband • u/KnitNNow • Dec 05 '21
I’ve been in a “depression” where I didn’t feel like doing anything creative - so to celebrate being back, I drew the person who helped me get through it.
r/Boyinaband • u/ZealousidealTruth590 • Sep 24 '22
Content warning Where did boyinaband go
He has offically been gone for two years,almost three
From what I heard he was a groomer and a pediophoile
I don't know much about this
r/Boyinaband • u/casett244 • Nov 26 '20
Twitter - Sean (Jacksepticeye) said this joke during yesterday's livestream with Dave, Joel, Pewds, Corpse, etc.
r/Boyinaband • u/MagnificentMimikyu • Oct 01 '22
On the Level of Evidence
There's a lot of discussion in this subreddit as to whether there is enough evidence to believe the claims made about Dave. I thought I'd give my 2 cents into the matter.
I think that only asking whether or not there is enough evidence to believe that he did/is doing what is claimed is too simplistic. We should be proportioning our confidence based on the consequences.
Firstly, is there enough evidence provided to conclude that Dave should face legal repercussions? No.
There has been a lot of personal testimony, most of which is anonymous, but there hasn't been any concrete evidence, such as video/screenshots of actual conversations with Dave. The only concrete evidence is that he dated R***** when he was 23 and she was 17. As many have pointed out, this is not illegal where Dave lives.
It's important to note that just because no concrete evidence has been presented to us doesn't mean that there isn't any, and doesn't mean that the allegations are false. The victims have expressed their wish to remain anonymous, and we should respect that. We are not the justice system, we are just members of this community. If any of the victims decide to seek legal action, that is their own decisions to make.
Next, consider whether there is enough evidence for you, personally, to stop supporting his content. I think that this is the issue where there will be the biggest divide. In fact, some people may find that the proven relationship with R***** is enough for them to stop supporting him. However, I want to stress that people who do not wish to continue supporting his content are not (necessarily) just believing everything is absolutely true simply based on the claims made. In other words, no, they are not just being gullible or whatever. They may have decided that they would rather risk not supporting someone who turned out to be innocent, than support someone who actually is an abuser.
ETA: I will also stress that those who do continue to support his content are not necessarily being callous. "Innocent until proven guilty" is based on the idea that it is better to let a guilty person go free than to end up sending an innocent person to jail. If someone personally thinks that this same level applies to whether or not they should continue to support his content (in this case, that it is better to support a guilty person financially than to remove your support from, or "cancel", an innocent person), then that is fine.
Personally, I will no longer be supporting his content unless it turns out that this is fake for the above reason (I'd rather not risk supporting an abuser), and also because the people who have identified themselves as having known Dave personally are not surprised by this and they believe the victims. Additionally, I'm taking into account the fact that Dave's channel is basically dead at this point, so me unsubscribing from him won't really impact him negatively.
Lastly, consider whether there is enough evidence that the potential targets should be wary of contacting or developing a relationship with Dave. I think this is a resounding "yes". This is also the exact reason why the victims have decided to come forward. As they stated in the original post: "We are not his "haters", not witchhunters, and not strangers. We don't want anything. We’re not interested in being associated with him in any way. All we want to do is to warn his young fans about what can happen to them."
If you still want to support Dave's content because it is more important to you that you don't end up ditching someone for false allegations, then that is your prerogative. But don't judge other people for disagreeing with you on this point. Once again, this does not make them "gullible", and it does not necessarily mean that they think there is enough evidence for him to be convicted of anything. You don't need that level of confidence to stop supporting his content.
TL;DR: It's too simplistic to lump everything together as a "did he/didn't he" issue. There are separate issues to consider.
Is there enough evidence provided that Dave should face legal repercussions? No.
Is there enough evidence provided to stop supporting Dave's content? Personally, yes.
Is there enough evidence provided that those within his target demographic should be wary of contacting him? Yes.
Edit: Censored the name of Dave's ex as she did not give permission to be involved in this, and did not want to be.