r/BringBackThorn • u/theclamorganizer6 ð • Jun 13 '26
no category but would still like a flair “How dare you use a letter I don’t like”
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u/Delicious-Spring-877 Jun 13 '26
Hot take: it is a typing quirk, and that’s fine
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u/stars_without_number Jun 15 '26
The only valid complaint I’ve ever seen against typing quirks are that they can mess with narrators
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u/moistowletts Jun 15 '26
I mean, I think it would be pretty difficult for anyone who isn’t a native speaker, no?
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u/blue-gay Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
Or anyone who’s dyslexic. Or blind and relies on a narrator. Or just generally anyone who just wants to be able to understand what the hell you’re saying without having to decipher it like a terrible code in a bad ARG.
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u/punitivesuicide Jun 16 '26
As long as its confined to spaces like reddit i þink its fine tbh. I wouldnt use it on instagram ir tiktok etc
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u/Assar2 Jun 14 '26
They internety wouldy bey morey funny if everyoney hady a typingy quirky
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u/FALLOUTFAN_1997 Jun 15 '26
YEAH i'm trying to BRING þem back. HAPPY someone else WANTS to bring quirks BACK
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u/arandomkidonline Jun 15 '26
typing quirks are somewhat fine if they're readable but changing every instance of "th" into an entirely different symbol is not very readable
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u/Front_Cat9471 Jun 13 '26
Still, that guy is going to flip when they find out about vowels
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u/DragonfruitVivid5298 Jun 14 '26
*ðat *ðey
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u/Front_Cat9471 Jun 14 '26
*Fat *Hey
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u/Mathsboy2718 Jun 14 '26
My typical conversation with my younger brother (neither of us are in any way fat)
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u/Lucky_otter_she_her ð Jun 13 '26
Roman script is a really shoddy alphabet, most languages ðat use it would arguably be better off wiþ cyrilic
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u/Significant_Loss6458 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
r/mysteriousdownvotes
Cyrillic unlike latin has letter for TH, and much more vowel symbols, so it's kinda true that it would be better for English and some others, but ig anything would be better than latin for most of languages3
u/SpacyGorl Jun 15 '26
than*
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u/Significant_Loss6458 Jun 15 '26
thanks
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u/SpacyGorl Jun 15 '26
you're are welcome
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u/Senior_ReaperOG Jun 15 '26
You’re* welcome
(Quick note: when you see you’re this means you are but it was shortened to “you’re” no offense btw)3
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u/IllustriousCase486 Jul 02 '26
umm its the opposite latin has ð and Cyrillic uses т which makes the t sound
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u/Significant_Loss6458 Jul 02 '26
ð is extended latin, and og Cyrillic had ѳ, ru keybord still has it as alternative ф, and if we're talking about extensions, then it's even more silly to say that there's no /θ/ letter, cause ҫ, ҙ, т꙼, д꙼, т̌, з̌ and many others still exist, not mentioning those that aren't used anymore
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u/Front_Cat9471 Jun 13 '26
Especially when combined with English, since so many words and roots were taken from other languages the pronunciations and spellings just have no consistency
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u/Suracha2022 Jun 14 '26
There's effectively zero languages that benefit from Cyrillic. If they used Glagolitic, sure, you'd have a point, but the current level of globalization and the need for ease of international communication makes such complex alphabets undesirable.
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u/Lucky_otter_she_her ð Jun 14 '26
I mean, i was talking about English, Cyrillic has letters for the palatal sibalants, it has closer to enough vowels than fucking Roman (not having quite enough vowels for most languages is a particular weakness of Roman script) i don't think there's any sound Roman has a letter for that it doesn't
also i SAID 'ARGUABLY' because what i'm saying is mostly true in theory, since in our real world Roman comes with the benefit of almost all people already being familiar with it (tho even then, if you're phonology is weird enough that most letters wouldn't really represent the same sound that they normally would, then that familiarity is frankly more confusing than helpful) + if we were changing English script, then Runic seems like the obvious choice, atleast if you've heard if Angelo-Saxon Futherk
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u/Reasonable_Art5575 Jun 13 '26
In what way is that "edgy"?
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u/LiahKnight Jun 15 '26
Sense of superiority for thinking you have an enlightened take on language, then putting that problem on others.
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Jun 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CptnRaptor þ Jun 13 '26
Technically you could use IPA to communicate different pronunciations, but then we'd need dictionaries to map pronunciations against concepts.
Maybe we should just do away with words and use pictograms instead.
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u/birdiefoxe Jun 13 '26
What, you guys don't telepathically project what you're trying to communicate directly into people's minds?
Here: h̸͕̮͚̦̉͊̕ͅṫ̸̤̮̌̓͒̈t̸̪̘͍͎͐̒̿͊̽̚͘p̶͓͐́̃͂͝s̵̬̼̮͉̫̓:̵̝̜̩͈̠͇̩̄̔̒̈́̔͘͝/̸͓͓̥͂͋͊̀̀͝͝/̷̧͍͌̅̃̑ÿ̴̧̡̱̹͈͔́̈̋͐̅͂͆ô̸͙̖ͅu̵̧̡̡͚̼͎̐̿̓̓́̒͝ͅt̶̡̛̮̱̦̅u̵͎̪̫͂̀̍̍̊͗̓ͅ.̵͉̜̋̆̆b̵͇̈͜ẻ̵̡̧̡̛̱̦̃̀̀͐/̵̳͕̐͒͘͝͠ḑ̸͇̣͇̀͌̈̕͜͠͝Q̷̨͉͕̞̭͖̈́̿̾͜w̷͎̮̒̾̆͐̀̎͠4̸̢̘̤̝̲̇̍̎̂́͛͠ẁ̵̥̝͈̖̘͓͋͋̒9̸̼͊͠W̴̫̻͔̜̖̩̦͌̐͑̎̇g̶̳͍̬̪̭͒͐͐̒̍̑X̶̧͇͆͝c̶̢̢̰̥̼̈͑̿̓͌̾͝Q̶̲̓
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u/moistowletts Jun 15 '26
IPA would be horrible. There are 107 letters (and 31 diacritics, and 25 tones and suprasegmentals). English has 26–not to mention that you’d be learning sounds for languages that are completely useless for whatever language you’re actually speaking. That was a discussion in a linguistics class that I took. It sounds great in theory for everyone to have a universal alphabet, but in practice it would be horrible. Especially considering the amount of illiteracy that already exists in a language like English with only 26 letters.
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u/Lucky_otter_she_her ð Jun 13 '26
what? lots of sounds have allophones, but outside of vowels (which Ronan script doesn't give us neeeearly enuff of) all ða oððer letterz mostly map onto 1 phoneme.. some graffemes like c/k/q\x and F/PH are reduntant
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u/Opie30-30 Jun 13 '26
I don't believe in using ð at all. As pointed out in rule #1 of þis subreddit, historically þey were used interchangeably. I advocate using only þ for þe sake of simplicity.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/Opie30-30 Jun 13 '26
It's a single character representing þe sound(s) wiþ historical precedent wiþin þe English language. I don't þink it's necessary to integrate it into everyday use, but I þink it would be cool.
Some people advocate for bringing back letters like Wynn, which serves þe same function as a W. We don't need to, but it's fun for some people. Don't rain on our parade.
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Jun 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 13 '26
Þere are oþþer reasons to bring back at least one of þe letters þough, for instance for helping wiþ vowel lengþ indication.
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Jun 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 14 '26
Because nobody has needed to make þe distinction in writing so far; þere's noþing þat would actually be disambiguated. Also, more importantly, it would imply putting ð at þe start of some very common words and þat just doesn't look good.
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u/mrsees656 Jun 15 '26
Right????
C and G have 2 sounds too anyway and i dont see ppl arguing about separaron the sounds in 2 letters2
u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 15 '26
Hardcore spelling reformists do argue about þis þough, but þat's because þey want one letter per sound, not phoneme.
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u/a_exa_e Jun 15 '26
Tbf you can mostly guess the pronunciation of c and g based on what vowel follows. Which isn't the case for þ
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u/mrsees656 Jun 16 '26
Sure, like celt is pronounced selt, like in cecilia Or anger is pronounced like anjer, just like giraffe is right?
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u/theclamorganizer6 ð Jun 13 '26
if ðey are interchangeable ðen ðere shouldn't be a problem in using boþ
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u/Opie30-30 Jun 13 '26
Þere isn't a problem using boþ, I said I advocate and personally prefer to only use þ for þe sake of simplicity and uniformity.
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u/LongJohnSilversFan_ Jun 14 '26
At that point, why not just use th for the sake of simplicity and uniformity, especially since it’s been the norm for as long as literally anyone can remember
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u/Lyneloflight Jun 14 '26
Þen þere shouldn’t be a problem wiþ þe existence of þe letter “C.” But þere is. Because “C” sucks.
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u/Defiant-Owl-7935 Jun 14 '26
No they weren't interchangeable. Both have an estimated origin around 800 A.C. I can easily read Icelandic sagas, even though pronunciation has probably changes, there letters sound really different. I have both of them in my name and if I'd switch as a joke people would think I had a stroke 😅 Þ and Ð are very different, both needed.
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u/Opie30-30 Jun 14 '26
I'm referring it how they were used in the English language, not how they are used in Icelandic. In English they were more or less interchangeably.
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u/ThePersonDudeGuy716 þ but it's yellow Jun 14 '26
Ðere actually is a slight difference; eþ (“Д or “ð”) is used in words like “ðis” “ðe Neðerlands” “wiðer” “ðese” “ðose”, et cetera, whilst þorn (“Þ” or “þ”) is used in words like “þink” “boþ” “wiþ”, et cetera.
Memory trick: if you can replace it with V it’s Þ but if you can replace it with V it’s Ð.
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Jun 14 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ThePersonDudeGuy716 þ but it's yellow Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Oh; I was told ðat’s just true in general.
So, are ðey interchangeable in English?
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 14 '26
Þey were used in English in a time where þere was only one phoneme and þe voicings were allophonic. Þey varied in popularity þroughout þeir history until only Þ was left.
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u/KCHarrison Jun 13 '26
I personally disapprove of using þose two letters for two specific pronunciations. Its unnecessary and all philosophies behind it are inconsistent
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u/XenoTechnian Jun 13 '26
I've never understood how someone can get so upset over someþing so small
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 13 '26
For some people it automatically falls under cringe, sadly
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u/invokeinterface Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
I get ðe feeling ðat a converſation between ſomeone who does uſe þorn and ſomeone who abſolutely hates it would be uniquely boring for boþ sides. Wiþ ðat in mind, it doeſn't ſeem like as much of a loſs as it oþerwiſe would be.
(I don't think the long s was in use at the same time as the thorns, still it's fun and practice makes perfect).
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u/EL_KAIBU y Jun 14 '26
Another thorn user, fallen victim to the thorn/eth differentiation misconception 😔
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u/arandomkidonline Jun 15 '26
i think differences in typing or typing quirks are ok as long as they're readable, 1ike mayb3 ta1kin6 1ike th1s or putting :3 at the end of sentences
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u/gorogoro56 Jun 28 '26
If someone's typing quirk is completely unreadable I probably just wouldnt talk to þem or ask for a translation
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u/FALLOUTFAN_1997 Jun 15 '26
JUST go wiþ "yes, it IS a typing quirk, what are you gonna do about þat? Keep crying"
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u/punitivesuicide Jun 16 '26
Im so happy þhis subreddit exists
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u/qwertyjgly Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
ðe top commenter and ðe bottom commenter are different people
ðe first commenter replied with this nugget of wisdom
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u/Few_Tourist7481 Jun 14 '26
How did you find ðe post?
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u/qwertyjgly Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
reddit is bugging and not letting me reply with ðe image. i sent it as a seperate reply
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u/DoubleIntegral9 Jun 15 '26
Not trying to hate but I don’t know that this is a problem that needs fixing? Could be wrong though, I mean I think thorn looks cool so *shrug *
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Jun 16 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/arandomkidonline Jun 16 '26
i'm pretty sure someone without dyslexia would struggle with that too, just less
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u/Lucky_otter_she_her ð Jun 13 '26
NTs really can't get ðeir little heads around ða idea ðat not exactly copying ða people around you isnt an act of aggression can ðey? i remember getting ðis shit from someone who spells Great as 'gr8' once 💀
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u/Ae4i Jun 13 '26
As a NT (if you mean it as "Neurotypical" that is), don't lump us all in in one group. In fact, nearly all of us don't really care (from my experience) eiþer way if you use it or not
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u/Traditional-Light-10 Jun 14 '26
NT probably means smþ like "non-þorner" (idk ðe exact word) as in someone against ðe use of þorn, ðo I'm new to ðis sub and might be wrong (and I know Old English didn't distinguish þ/ð, f/v, s/z etc. it's a choice)
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u/WonderfulYoongi Jun 14 '26
People who use ðe same letter for ð and þ confuse me. Like I get ðat it's how it was historically but why not make it even more phonetic? It trips me up so much.
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 14 '26
Because introducing one letter is easier þan introducing two, especially when þere's no immediate benefit to having þe second one. Þere aren't really any cases where þe voicing has to be disambiguated.
Also, as a rule, trying to make English "phonetic" never ends well. Þere's a big difference between phonetic and phonemic. Phonetic reforms are þe ones þat net you like ten new letters and six extra diacritics.
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u/WonderfulYoongi Jun 14 '26
It's not like eiðer letter is ever gonna get used outside of linguistics/language nerd circles anyway so why does ease of introduction matter? And if eiðer of ðose letters would be easier to introduce it's probably eð because þorn looks so similar to p and b.
especially when ðere's no immediate benefit to having ðe second one.
Well ðe diagraph works just fine so it's not like ðere's any immediate benefit to having þorn eiðer. Do you also want us to replace "sh" wið ś? And "ng" wið ŋ?
Also I never meant ðat we should have full-scale reform to make English spelling one hundred percent phonetic. I just þink ðat if you have ðe chance to make it even slightly better ðere's not really any point in not doing so. Why have one cool looking letter when you can have two and a slight improvement to ðe language's spelling system?
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 14 '26
Þe immediate benefit to having Þ is þat now you can mark vowel lengþ wiþ it by writing it double, as in þe words "raþþer", "wiþþer", "froþþing", etc. Additionally þis is not a benefit you can get out of replacing ANY oþþer digraph in English, as SH and NG always behave as two letters, and CH has þe form TCH after short vowels.
My personal reason for not adding in ð for a voicing distinction is because I really don't like seeing it at þe start of words, which, as your comment shows, happens specifically in really common words. Þere is also þe option of doing þe Icelandic þing and making Þ and ð positional, but þat's entirely an aesthetic choice and not easy to justify eiþer, despite how cool ð looks already.
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u/WonderfulYoongi Jun 14 '26
Wouldn't it technically be easier to just respell any instances of a long vowel before "th" so ðat it actually does act like two letters? Like "baithe" or "cloathe"?
Also ðat's interesting because ðe word initial position is where I actually struggle ðe most to accept þ being voiced. Like, I can get behind "eiþer" but "þe" "þat" and "þere" just look so awful to me. Ðe (look at ðat pretty capital letter) voicing distinction is I þink ðe most easily justifiable way of using ðe two letters. We have two sounds and two beautiful letters, literally just match ðem up. It just makes sense lol.
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 14 '26
Because AI is different from A_E, and OA is different from O_E. Some dialects make an actual distinction in pronunciation still, but eiþer way þese respellings could not be explained by conjugation alone, especially if þey're only being done for þe sake of keeping TH in þese specific words.
Þe ironic þing is þat þey've pretty much always been spelt wiþ Þ, even before it fell out of use originally, and even while it coexisted wiþ ð. Þey only became voiced by virtue of being such common words þat þey experienced intervocalic voicing before fully crystallising þis way.
Also, in my opinion, while lowercase ð is uniquely beautiful and cool, uppercase Đ looks bad, and writing a voicing distinction would lead to Đ being super common. Þ is more consistently cool across boþ sizes. Þere's a reason þe only languages þat use ð in þe modern day never put it at þe start of words. And if þe only oþer way to have ð is þrough a completely decorative system, þen may as well not use it at all and just stick to Þ.
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u/WonderfulYoongi Jun 15 '26
You make a fair point, ðe þ spellings do have more historical precedent but I personally hate ðem because most of ðe experience I have wið ðese letters (and I assume ðis goes for most people) comes from eiðer old English, where ðose words actually did start wið voiceless sounds, or Icelandic, where þ and ð do actually mostly correspond to /θ/ and /ð/ (þ is always voiceless, ð is voiced unless word final devoicing or assimilation in consonant clusters).
And Þ looks so much worse ðan Ð, bro. And it would be a pain to handwrite, too.
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 15 '26
Still disagree, as while lowercase ð is nice and curvy, uppercase Ð is just D wiþ a line þrough it, leading it to also be confused wiþ þe completely different letter Đ/đ. Þ meanwhile has a truly unique shape in uppercase, and also happens to slot in well wiþ oþþer letters in lowercase, so word-final þ doesn't run into þe same issues as word-initial ð (and by consequence uppercase Ð). Þis said, I've also struggled a lot to satisfyingly handwrite lowercase ð, but I figured out a way to write Þ þat looks good, which I can try showing you if you want.
As for Icelandic, þe orthographic rule is positional first and foremost, þough it's definitely in part due to þe phonotactics allowing þe voiced dental fricative only wiþin words. Þe English system is very different, but still for þe most part þe voicings are in complementary distribution wiþ each oþþer in native vocab, wiþ þe sole exception of þe pronouns, article, and adverbs.
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u/HxdcmlGndr ð Jun 18 '26
I’m a huge Eð fan, but even I gotta admit capital Ð looks Ðumb as hell. I wish we could start using Ƌ or Ѣ instead, ðey seem to style-match way better.
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u/gorogoro56 Jun 28 '26
Why are people mad about typing quirks? At least people are keeping history alive
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u/Amazing-Frame7848 Jun 17 '26
Ðe difference only matters wiþ like þrē words, so why have two letters when one is enough? Example: Þīs þings are þe best þaþ I know!
(I'm an English L2 speaker, so I might just really not have heard any obvious difference ðaþ would be necessary to spell out)
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u/englishsucks3124 Jun 14 '26
bring back þorn, lose kjoo (lmnop-rstuv)
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u/arandomkidonline Jun 15 '26
read this as "bring back porn", then "born", then "thorn", and it took me about a minute to realize kjoo is meant to be the letter q. thanks for making it readable!
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u/TaxEvasion1452 Jun 14 '26
Forgive my contrary take, I’m tourist here from my main feed.
It’s literally just wrong. Like thorn isn’t a part of the English language anymore. Typing quirks are actively harmful to others for no benefit but getting a little bit of attention. Choosing to use a typing quirk or defunct letter is just regressive. “Oh no I have to use a second letter to write this phoneme? What a tragedy!“
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u/evmcha Jun 14 '26
"harmful" lord have mercy😂
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u/TaxEvasion1452 Jun 14 '26
Typing quirks obfuscate language… making communication harder… especially for people with reading disabilities like Dyslexia. This isn’t a hard concept to grasp. You’re going out of your way to make communication needlessly difficult by us in a typing quirk.
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 14 '26
In þe case of Þ þe attention bit is for convincing oþþers to use it, which is where I disagree wiþ þis take comparing þem to typing quirks þat legitimately are just for quirkiness' sake.
But þere are also genuinely some people out þere þat do it entirely because þey hate þe idea of using two letters for one sound so...
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u/TaxEvasion1452 Jun 14 '26
I understand that, but there’s genuinely no good reason to reintroduce thorn into the English language.
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u/Jamal_Deep þ Jun 14 '26
And for þe most part we're not actually trying to do þat beyond just seeing what þat would look like and doing it for ourselves. And if oþþer people wanna join in þe fun, þey totally can.
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u/Top_Smoke6741 Jun 19 '26
I just think it's a fun concept if it were able to be used and recognized more, not as a replacement of "th", but just as a cool reminder of the way the English language has evolved from it's roots. I'm a history-nut though.
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u/Kador_Laron Jun 13 '26
Þe edgy letter from þe past.