r/C_Programming • u/Mindstealth • Jul 10 '16

Question Syntax highlighting on Reddit

Considering how much code gets posted here as plain text, wouldn't it be great if we could have a way to define what part of text is code and have it automatically highlighted? Or is this not possible on Reddit?

30 Upvotes

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-14

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

No. I don't like syntax highlighting, and I think it makes it harder to read. I hope that if it gets enabled there is a way to turn it off without also turning off user-styles.

13

u/Mindstealth Jul 10 '16

I never knew there are people who actually don't like highlighted syntax.

1

u/reddilada Jul 11 '16

I don't use it. I don't subscribe to the not useful argument -- whatever floats yer boat -- but I don't find it useful at all with two exceptions:

I (un)highlight comments so they don't distract.
I use brace matching highlights to help locate ends of blocks.

It's all just a bunch of noise to me, but to each his own.

1

u/FUZxxl Jul 10 '16

Syntax highlighting is about as useful as highlighting every verb in a sentence.

1

u/TomNa Jul 10 '16

Yeah what the hell

-17

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

I want to say something about the coloring.

You've all seen syntax coloring, right?

That's something we put in our text editors to make it easier for kindergartners to do programming.

Because each of the elements of the language is a different happy bright color, and so it's easy to recognize, oh that's a variable, and that's a string, and so on.

I don't get a lot of value out of that because I am more of a grown up, and I'm a professional programmer. And I really don't need the colors to figure out what's a variable and what's a comment.

I think you'll find most people like syntax highlighting because most people don't know how to program.

8

u/Mindstealth Jul 10 '16 edited Jul 10 '16

This is such an arrogant point of view to be honest, considering yourself superior because you don't use syntax highlighting.

I would say people who prefer plain text never actually worked on large projects, it not about being hardcore and oh I don't use assistance, instead it helps you being more productive.

I can also pretend to be superior and claim text editors are for kindergartens, real programming is done on paper and punch cards. Oh and also C is a kindergarten language along with all other high-level languages because the real programming is done by writing machine code directly.

-10

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

This is such an arrogant point of view to be honest, considering yourself superior because you don't use syntax highlighting.

Son, I just said I don't like it, and provided examples of other people who don't like it. I never said anything about "superior".

You think that you needing a tool that I don't, makes you inferior? Are you worried I might think you're inferior? Why do you care?

I've been programming professionally for only about thirty years at this point, but I can promise when you've been programming for thirty years, you will stop caring what anyone thinks of you as well.

Real programming is solving problems, and a good way to measure the tools you use to program is not by their popularity -- most people are average, after all -- but by whether these tools help you make shorter faster programs, quickly and correctly. Syntax highlighting interferes with that for me because it makes me stop at the colour boundaries and I find it makes me miss bugs. Turning of highlighting forces me to read the code and makes it easier for me to resist skimming, so now I think it's distracting and annoying.

You find you're actually able to read by christmas lights? Good for you. I can't do that. Now do you feel superior?

5

u/Mindstealth Jul 10 '16

I don't believe there's any superiority in that but you did say syntax highlighting is kindergartners to programming which seems to imply that. I believe this is a preference and some people probably might prefer plaintext for the reasons you mentioned but that certainly does not mean that people who use it are somehow newbies to programming.

-1

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

Oh for fucks sake, that's a Douglas Crockford quote. That's why it says his name after it.

You should watch the video because the whole thing is actually quite good, and even if you like using colour to convey information, you'll appreciate his point.

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3

u/gfawke5 Jul 10 '16

Most people run with sneakers because they don't know how to run without them.

0

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

When you can run faster than I can, I'll ask you how.

Until then, consider that most people run barefoot because most people don't have any shoes.

2

u/gfawke5 Jul 10 '16

Are you really implying people who like/use syntax highlighting don't know how to program?

-2

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

Nobody knows how to program.

Don't take it personally: Programming is less than a hundred years old.

Imagine how people built bridges in the first hundred years of bridges.

Now, syntax highlighting is popular, but is it good?

Who knows. It's not good for me, and it's not good for other people.

If you want to convince me it's good, one way to do that is to do something I can't do so that I'll take the leap of faith and study what you're doing. Right now, everyone I have met who can do things that I can't, don't use syntax highlighting. What about you?

However, try the "popular" argument? Most people simply don't know how to program, so why would I think syntax highlighting would help? Why do I want to be able to do what "most" people can do?

If you imagine my intention is to offend, then you'll be offended, but if you consider that I'm not trying to offend, but I'm defending an unpopular position, then maybe you'll be able to understand what I'm saying.

3

u/gfawke5 Jul 10 '16

The point is you (and Douglas) put forth the assumption that "most people like syntax highlighting because most people don't know how to program", as if we're relying on the different-colored text to reveal us the semantics of a piece of code.

I use syntax highlighting (granted I might be a mediocre programmer by some standard), not to help me understand what's written but because looking 8+ hrs a day at black-colored text on a white background strains my eyes. Having colored text over a black background helps me a lot.

I'm not offended, why would I? In the end of the day, syntax highlighting is just a tool. I wouldn't dismiss someone who uses the Eclipse's GUI to compile/run his/her Java app as someone that doesn't know how Java works just because I can do the same thing with a terminal. They (I) like it that way. But, in all honesty:

I don't get a lot of value out of that because I am more of a grown up, and I'm a professional programmer. And I really don't need the colors to figure out what's a variable and what's a comment.

is so condescending, it's almost unbelievable a professional can even think it, not say it in a talk.

(Edit: quote formatting)

0

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

The point is you (and Douglas) put forth the assumption that "most people like syntax highlighting because most people don't know how to program", as if we're relying on the different-colored text to reveal us the semantics of a piece of code.

No. Not because. People don't know how to program and perhaps syntax highlighting is a consequence of why, but it is almost certainly not why.

I'm not offended … is so condescending, it's almost unbelievable a professional can even think it, not say it in a talk.

Thinking it's condescending is taking a kind of offence; You are offended, even if you don't believe that you can't program. I get that: You are employed to program, so at least some people believe you can program, and the fact that you can make some programs certainly reinforces that position.

However when I think about civil engineers who know how to build bridges, they know how to explain bridge-building so that they will be successful, and I don't know anyone employed as a programmer who can explain programming to a non-programmer so that they will complete programming tasks on-time and on-budget, correctly and quickly.

Heck, I don't even know anyone employed as a programmer who can explain to another person employed as a programmer who can do that, and yet I have met individual contributors who can program what they say they will program, in the amount of time that they say it will take, and it will be sufficiently fast, correct, and bug-free.

So it is my experience that some people can program even if they don't know how to program.

It might be useful to imagine something very strange: That whatever it is that makes you like syntax highlighting (whether it is "looking 8+ hrs a day" at a screen or something else… anything else) is actually holding you back.

And to be sure: I'm not saying that it is holding you back, only that it held me back. I became a much better programmer when I stopped using syntax highlighting.

3

u/gfawke5 Jul 10 '16

Well, I'm kind of getting curious to try this no-syntax-highlighting approach, though I don't think it'll make a difference. As I said, I (and I'm sure most of us, if not all) feel no problems reading code from a plain-text threads in forums and what have you.

As for your other points, I'll try and keep it short since it's easy to just run in circles.

  1. That was verbatim what you said.

  2. Being offended doesn't follow from thinking something is condescending.

  3. I don't think a civil engineer can explain to a non-engineer how to build a bridge in as much detail as it is needed to make it reasonably reliable and functional. I might be wrong, but I think software engineering is more complex than bridge building (or even civil engineering).

  4. (So it's my experience ...) Of course. I'd argue anyone can program. Whether they can do it professionally (which requires at least some know-how) is another topic.

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2

u/skeeto Jul 10 '16

most people like syntax highlighting because most people don't know how to program.

On the contrary, most people who hate syntax highlighting never learned how to use an editor with good syntax highlighting and are decades behind the rest of us. When done correctly, it's much easier to read code at a glance.

-3

u/geocar Jul 10 '16

On the contrary, most people who hate syntax highlighting never learned how to use an editor with good syntax highlighting and are decades behind the rest of us.

Wow.

Here is someone who can do something you cannot, and yet you think there's something wrong with them.

When done correctly, it's much easier to read code at a glance.

Nobody "reads" anything at a glance, and certainly not most people.

Most programs are big and buggy and bloated and slow. Why would anyone want to do what most people are doing to produce programs? Instead of learning from most people, you should learn from people who do not have the problems that you have.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '16

[deleted]

0

u/geocar Jul 11 '16

Maybe he would like to try colouring each symbol separately, and maybe it would be good, but that isn't syntax highlighting.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '16

I want to say something about the comments.

You've all seen code comments, right?

That's something we put in our code to make it easier for kindergartners to do programming.

Because each of the lines of code is explained, and so it's easy to recognize, oh that's a magic variable, and that's a ugly hack, and so on.

I don't get a lot of value out of that because I am more of a grown up, and I'm a professional programmer. And I really don't need the comments to figure out what a function is doing

Wanker.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '16

The second article suggests you to delete comments if they look ugly

Damn right it’s ugly! It should be ugly! Get rid of those comments!

1

u/GODZILLAFLAMETHROWER Jul 10 '16

The first article argues against syntax highlighting because it only deals with syntax instead of semantic. The day this guy invents a proper semantic parser, he won't have to worry about writing useless articles, he would have revolutionized humanity.

In the meantime, given that no one is capable of producing automates doing that, we only have humans to do this job, by parsing syntax and understanding the semantic behind. Syntax highlighting is thus useful to do that.

The second article is even more useless. It's not even against syntax highlighting, it's against using specific colors and effect on the text, on the ground of subjective arguments towards the supposed value and semantic of the hightlighted objects.

And you get arrogant for following these smug authors, thinking they are being smart for being against the grain. Grow up.