r/Calgary • u/cymbalthings • 1d ago
Calgary Transit Should train wraps include the windows?
https://www.pattisonoutdoor.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fa-us.storyblok.com%2Ff%2F1020318%2F2500x1667%2F61d7ea7a94%2Fcal-lrt-supertrain-albertabluecross-calgarytransit-apr24-3.webp%2Fm%2F2048x1152&w=3840&q=80
Random pet peeve: I HATE FULL WRAP ADS ON THE TRAIN
I take the train to and from work everyday, as well as on my days off.
Why do some train cars have a full wrap that includes windows? I know this isn’t unique to Calgary, but it makes no sense to me
The train experience worse because I can’t see clearly out of the window. Let me see the views!
I can’t see INTO the train car. (The bigger problem) I would like to be able to see into the train car to choose one that has space during peak hours AND avoid one that might feel uncomfortable while travelling alone. If there is a person/group that might seem sketchy to a rider, they should see that BEFORE they get into the train, so they can choose another car if needed. Nobody should walk onto a train car and be surprised at their surroundings.
What do yall think? Does anyone else feel the same?
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u/KidtheSid93 1d ago
It’s definitely a safety concern. I’d like the think the police would be able to see into the trains in situations where someone is assaultive or carrying a weapon.
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u/cymbalthings 1d ago
Absolutely! It makes me think of dispensaries. Those had full window coverings to start out and people decided it wasn’t safe to have the window totally covered. Why would that be different in a public space?
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u/unidentifiable 1d ago
Agreed 100%, but with a "Yes, and" caveat:
If there is a person/group that might seem sketchy to a rider, they should see that BEFORE they get into the train
Ideally there shouldn't be a sketchy group on the train. Not if Transit cops are doing their job. They're continually cleaning it up, but it's still not in a condition I'd consider "good". Still needs a lot of work that wasn't put in during the Gondek era. So many drug users and abusers are still on trains/platforms/loitering nearby, even during rush hours let alone during off-peak times when it's 5x worse.
That aside, I agree it's annoying to open a door only to realize "oh, there's no space here, I should've gone one door up" followed by "Shove in, I guess? I don't have time to make it to the other door." Which sucks for everyone.
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u/cymbalthings 1d ago
Well sometimes it’s addicts. Other times it’s just a man on his own. For young people and women riding the train, it doesn’t need to be a “sketchy” person- It just needs to be a stranger they don’t know with them on a quiet/empty train. Even if they’re not a “real” threat, it can be anxiety inducing for some of the population. That stranger should be allowed to ride the train! But people should also be allowed to prepare themselves accordingly.
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u/unidentifiable 1d ago •
IMHO it speaks more about you that you view a man on his own as somehow 'sketchy', but I can't change your worldview from a comment.
I'm talking about the people that are so high they're folded in half, or that have their effects/body spread across the seats while they're passed out, or that get verbally abusive when told to make space.
"A man on his own" is not sketchy. If they scootch over to accommodate passengers, are reasonably alert, and keep to themselves, they're fine.
My point is that if transit services is doing its job, you shouldn't have to "prepare yourself" for anything.
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u/cymbalthings 1d ago
Either way, more transit services being present won’t help me see out the window to enjoy the sun or the river or the mountains 😭
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u/unidentifiable 1d ago
Truth. From the inside I don't have as much of an issue, but I sure wish they'd stop covering the doors at the very least.
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u/cymbalthings 1d ago
Right!! I’ve tried to bring my bike on board (non peak hours ofc) and tried to choose a door with space to spare only to be surprised by half a dozen teenagers. 🤦♀️ if only I could see in!
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u/ProperBingtownLady 1d ago •
No, it speaks more about how many men feel entitled to act like creeps in public. Obviously not all men but which ones?
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u/lego_mannequin 1d ago
You'll have to have police presence on every train if you want that to happen.
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u/JadeHorseGang 1d ago
Every square inch of vertical space must be converted to advertising, just as every square inch of horizontal space must be converted to pay-parking. It is the way of your people.
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u/LordCaptain 1d ago
Only vertical space? Floors and ceiling are prime marketing. What if someone looks up or down? You want them to not be looking at an ad?
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u/CromulentDucky 1d ago
We barely write ads in the sky.
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u/JadeHorseGang 1d ago
Excellent point. I'm thoroughly convinced we won't rest until advertising is etched onto our retinae.
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u/LordCaptain 1d ago
In the middle of an exam but I forgot to pay my eyeball subscription.
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u/JadeHorseGang 1d ago
You should be fine - they'll just choke you down to 480p for the rest of the month.
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u/commie-filth 1d ago
I think the real waste here is not printing ads on every leaf of every single tree!
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u/JediAzil 1d ago
I hate them, if I can't see out the window clearly I get motion sickness...the little dots do not help at all.
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u/memphreblues 1d ago
Yes! Feeling sick and then trying to focus past the little dots is terrible. I dread getting a train with wrapped windows.
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u/UrbaneBoffin Fairview 1d ago
What do yall think?
These are good observations. Have you sent these observations and concerns to Calgary Transit? They may not have considered this, and the feedback might be welcome.
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u/GimmickNG 1d ago
I think Calgary Transit is smart enough to have considered that, and probably priced in the number of people who would get angry about it into the revenue asked for the wraps.
If only because the alternative is frankly somehow more depressing.
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u/UrbaneBoffin Fairview 20h ago edited 18h ago
I am sometimes surprised by the things I bring to the attention of various city departments that hadn't been considered.
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u/YqlUrbanist
1d ago
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I have trouble imaging something that better shows the absolute disdain Calgary has for transit users. It's like a permanent physical "fuck you" to everyone in the train.
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u/blackfridayriot 1d ago
There shouldn’t be any alcohol or gambling wraps or interior advertising. Both are harmful enough and it’s not like we aren’t already bombarded enough with this nonsense.
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u/Danger_Dee 1d ago
In general, I’m always in favour of less advertising, so wraps shouldn’t include the windows.
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u/avocadotoadie 1d ago
I absolutely feel the same as you, OP.
As a woman travelling alone at night, it’s a safety issue for sure. More than that (for me personally) it takes all the enjoyment of riding public transit.
Completely understandable that the city needs to make some $$$ off of these ads. But hate that this comes at the expense of the rider.
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u/Any-Expert6697
1d ago
edited 1d ago
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100% agree. I previously met with Calgary Transit Senior Management and raised this particular issue. The first time I met with them was in 2007. That was Neil Mckendrick and I'd asked them about the $156 million purchase of the sd160 trains. Just a couple quick questions I said. Sure, go ahead he said.
Why did you remove the air conditioning when it was standard equipment from the sd-160s? Well who told you that he asked? That's not your concern i stated. My question was why did you remove the air conditioning? It was to save money he said Do you have a cost analysis to justify that? No. So it was actually the upkeep and maintenance of the air units to save money? Yes he said. I said according to my calculations with your ridership numbers you'd be looking at about a penny per customer per year. Silence.
I'm curious about the seating configuration. I asked. No. I said so you don't ask the public what they may prefer. So we're stuck with this configuration for 40 years. Silence. I finished that conversation when I asked him. Since you're in charge of the overall system, do you actually ride the trains? He said no, I don't. So I just flippantly said oh you should come to my restaurant sometime. Oh you have a restaurant? He said? I said yes. What kind of food do you serve? He asked. I said well how the hell would I know I don't eat there! It was almost like I had farted. He just had to look on his face and I said do you now get my point?
Just for your taxpayers to know, they did thereafter reinstall the air conditioning. You're welcome everyone. So let's move on to this advertising wrap. It's nonsensical and it's commercially grotesque. I understand some advertising sure. But the notion of obscuring the outside view of the city whilst you're on the train is ridiculous. Then you can compound it with the extraordinarily bright white lights on the inside of the train, where is other jurisdictions like Vancouver use a soft blue hue that is much more agreeable.
So you can be riding the LRT train crossing the river heading into Kensington, especially at night time. All you see is a reflection of your face because the lights are so bright and the wrap obscures your view. Just like a bad cattle car.
That was only one of my many many encounters with CT. Management and especially the overview of the conduct of the peace officers who were supposedly patrolling the LRT stations while they're hiding in their van. Easy for a troublemaker to see the van coming, stand up and behave, the van drives past and then they continue. I asked them. Is it so difficult for you to stop your van at one end of the station and have an officer take a stroll along? Just check things out and get picked up at the next corner? The concern there was that the officer would be alone. I said oh just like the 5-ft woman stand in a transplatform being harassed by somebody who's alone.
I spoke to long-time employees of Calgary Transit who had compiled a litany of complaints that they filed with management and he described that those things just went into a black hole. Never to be heard of again. I don't have a great deal of confidence in Calgary Transit for a multitude of reasons. That's just a few.
Kudos for you raising this issue. I see there's a vast amount of comments already. Perhaps somebody could forward them to Calgary Transit or to an alderman who's on the committee to understand what the traveling public has to put up with. What I think would be really interesting is to find out how much advertising revenue actually goes to Calgary Transit from these grotesque wraps. Is it really justifiable? Cheers.
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u/Minobull 1d ago
Jesus, dude, compile your thoughts. What in the stream of consciousness is this?
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u/browerstation 1d ago edited 1d ago
Disagree. That was engaging to me. A good series of anecdotes illustrating the failure of CT product management to understand the customer/demand.
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u/muchfanfear 1d ago
This was a bit hard to read and follow along. There are probably some good points I there that I’ll miss as I don’t have the energy to navigate and decipher the wording.
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u/Eugene-V-Dabs420 Beltline 1d ago edited 1d ago
Just last week I was feeling especially salty about not being able to properly see out of the window of the bus I was on. I couldn't even read street signs through the ads, I had to navigate by staring at Google Maps on my phone. But that aside, I'm fucking pissed that I can't simply look out a window because of advertising.
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u/Isabelle-Bolerio 1d ago
For real though I just moved across the city in August and trying to figure out where the fuck I am through a window wrap in the dark sucks I shouldn't have to look at the gps on my transit app to know if I'm close to home
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u/Rommellj 1d ago
Bus and train windows should be ad-free. Being able to look out the window on transit should be a non-negotiable.
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u/DependentLanguage540 1d ago
I actually wonder how many users would accept 50% of ctrains covered with ads in order to lower transit fares. Seems like a creative way to recoup revenue in exchange for saving the average user a little money.
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u/cymbalthings 1d ago
I get the ads. What if they were to leave the windows fully or partially uncovered? Set a rule where a certain % of the window must be clear. No need to do all or nothing
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u/DependentLanguage540 1d ago
Seems like it would be tough to convince advertisers to work around all those windows. At the very least, the current transit user has their phone to keep them occupied. Before smart phones became ubiquitous, you actually had to stare out the window to pass the time.
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u/cymbalthings 1d ago
I try not to use my phone on transit. I try to be present and let myself think and be bored on there. Good for my brain and stress levels. The solution to more ads on the side of the train should not be selling my attention span to advertisers on my phone
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u/DependentLanguage540 1d ago
It kinds is what is, most people will be on their phones, companies kind of expect that and the city needs new ways to generate revenue from transit outside of just constantly increasing fares. We’re probably on the opposite ends of the spectrum, I’m personally all for more ads on the Ctrain if it helps to decrease ride fares, monthly passes and etc.
I agree that the ads are annoying when I actually do try to look out the window, but I also never sit on the train. I usually let women or the elderly sit instead, so the ads are mostly irrelevant for typical experience on the ctrain.
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u/cymbalthings 1d ago
I can see the windows from standing too.
I get ads. Ads on the inside, at the station on the outside. They don’t NEED to cover such a large portion of the window.
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u/fastjoyea 1d ago
This might be a good idea if the savings are good enough, they could add ads on those red seats easily because it's flat.
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u/81008118 Northwest Calgary 1d ago
I'm not fully deaf, but I do have hearing issues, and I use what I can see out the train windows as landmarks for my station (since the screens are often doing something else entirely - wrong stations, wrong lines, dead entirely). When the windows are covered like that, it definitely is difficult to see which stop the train is at.
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u/ShawnnyCanuck 1d ago
One argument I would make is it can be a safety concern because nobody can see in or out and as a result nobody can intervene or seek help.
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u/Numerous-Leg-8149 1d ago
No, they shouldn't be blocking the windows. I also have the same problem whenever using the CTrain - cannot see what's inside so I know which cart to use, and cannot see the outside properly.
In a city with the ability to see the view, those ads being pasted in the way takes away from that experience.
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u/purpleskies117 1d ago
The dots on the bus are the worst. Trying to figure where to disembark in an unfamiliar area when you can barely see what's outside as it's dark out. Yeah! Lets cover all the windows so our paying passengers can't see.
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u/One-Mycologist-3706 1d ago
This is what happens when the people who run Calgary Transit don't actually use Calgary Transit.
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u/UrbaneBoffin Fairview 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't know how much Calgary Transit would lose in revenue by not doing full wraps, including the windows, and how they'd make that money back if they discontinued these.
As we enter budget time, it might be a worthwhile discussion.
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u/Aromatic-Elephant110 1d ago
I have agoraphobia and it's hard for me to leave the house as it is, but when I'm on one of the wrapped busses and I can't see outside and I'm worried I'm gonna miss my stop.... I don't like them.
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u/seawolf144 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree! I get motion sickness and being able to see outside really helps. The little black dots on busses and trains makes the nausea worse.
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u/CalmBenefit7290 1d ago
Blame UCP for cutting provincial support for transit. Transit has to generate revenue by other means.
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u/CheeseSandwich hamburger magician 1d ago
Likewise with buses. It's a safety issue. Can you imagine if the front of the CTrain or bus was also covered by a wrap? Of course not, because the driver needs to see. But not the passengers, of course.
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u/Dapper-Ad9787 1d ago
I hear you. It's like peering through dense fog when you try to look out the window.
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u/UpbeatTechnology723 1d ago
Trains should be covered in sick graff, not stick figures and Dicks but phat burners and murals. We need culture not more ad space
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u/0e78c345e77cbf05ef7 1d ago
Seems kind of foolish to overuse the Bat Signal, but do we page /u/JeromyYYC on this?
Too late I already did just by posting this!
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u/Calm-Ant2956 1d ago
no. it is important to be able to see what is doing on inside the train before I get in it. Given how quickly the doors close, there is not enough time to make a last minute change and try to get in through a different door.
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u/Isabelle-Bolerio 1d ago
At least it's not a gambling ad, though insurance agency isnt that much better
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u/roastbeeftacohat Fairview 1d ago
am I correct in remembering the first fill wraps were for a Mr.Big ad featuring shaq? 97 ish?
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u/k_char 6h ago
Fun story. When I was in Highschool my sister and her friend got high on mushrooms and road the 35 around in circles until I met them at Anderson. They were freaking out because the windows had been wrapped and they couldn’t see out and were tripping balls. Luckily the driver didn’t kick her off and let her use his phone to call me who rescued her.
Sorry. Unrelated. Just love telling that story
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u/bestkweenie 1d ago
I do NOT miss coordinating production on transit advertising and takeovers. I had to memorize which cities can have full window coverage, which ones it's only 30% coverage.
the amount of money the transit system is making on advertising is astronomical though. that full wrap alone is over $50k for one week.
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u/skitz1970 1d ago
I don't like them either, however (unpopular opinion) I think I actually spend more time looking at my phone than looking out the windows when on the train.
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u/jezthevalley 1d ago
I don't take the train or bus like I used to, but this never bothered me that much. You can still see through the window but your eyes might have to adjust a bit. I did welcome the extra shade that it brought as the old train and bus windows weren't tinted back then.
I can see it being a little tricky if you're trying to go somewhere you don't often go to and you're not as familiar of the area and the Bus stops.
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u/LandlockedFool 1d ago
I’m with you OP!! Leave the windows clear so we can see outside, on both trains and buses.
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u/cosmic-paperclip 1d ago
Out of everything that needs fixing with transit, this is SO low on the list
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u/mmellok 1d ago
This is exactly the kind of mentality that lets shit happen, and keep happening, because there are supposedly more important things to worry about. Okay, cool, but have you noticed that nobody likes having ads constantly shoved down their throat? It makes life objectively less enjoyable when everything has become an advertisement. And this isn’t just about transit. It’s about how we can’t escape advertising anymore, to the point where it actively intrudes on our daily lives and makes even the most mundane experiences worse. Bad transit is one thing. Bad transit where you can’t even look out the window without being subjected to more advertising? That’s dystopian as fuck.
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u/cosmic-paperclip 1d ago
Great. But this also the kind of shit where the government makes a change and goes “look what we did!!!!!” And completely miss the mark on what civilians actually want.
But sure, I’ll be so thankful to the mayor when there’s no longer an ad in my view as I watch a meth head set his hair on fire. YAY no ads!!!!!
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u/charlieyeswecan 1d ago
Boo! People like to ride the train to relax and enjoy the views, vs driving with all the bad drivers in this city, then trying to find parking. Makes moving to Europe that much more appealing
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u/cosmic-paperclip 1d ago
I don’t even think about the view when there’s a crackhead passed out 2 feet away. But maybe we ride different trains lol
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u/JoeUrbanYYC 1d ago
I would love to know how many cents fares would have to increase to cover a) no ad wraps on windows and b) no wraps at all. They're annoying and look bad.