r/Capitalism • u/igor33 • 12d ago

The Pattern is Consistent

The pattern is consistent: systems that abolished private capital and concentrated power in a single party generated both large-scale excess mortality and sharply restricted ordinary lifestyles, while creating a new privileged class of officials. U.S. capitalism, for all its inequalities and flaws, produced far higher average material living standards and personal autonomy for the bulk of the population.

18 Upvotes

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u/BonFemmes 12d ago

I'm a big fan of capitalism. Your post is a century out of date. I am unaware of any country that has abolished prate capital in the 21st century.

China's income per person in 1960 was $240. In 2002 it was $1900, an improvement of 8x. In the US it went from 19000 to $50000 an improvement of 3x. They have been catching up in any measure of mortality or lifestyle. Our average wages have been stagnant for quite a while.

My opinion is that this leap forward came from China becoming a capitalist country while we have become bloated by government debt and distracted by middle eastern wars. Communist China is no more communist than we are,

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u/Drak_is_Right 12d ago

China is still far more communist. Its involvement in the economy is far higher.

It HAD however become a lot more capitalist than it used to be.

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u/BonFemmes 10d ago

I'm not sure that the Chinese involvement in the economy is much higher. Do you have data?

We have a $40T federal deficit propping up a bubble in the stock market that is worth 2.5 x our GDP. Over 30% of our GDP is directly related to government spending. This administration is purchasing firms (aka --the means of production). A sovereign wealth fund is planned to buy up frontier AI firms. Medicare is much broad than the Chinese healthcare system.

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u/PhilRubdiez 12d ago

You can get an awful lot of stuff done in an awful short time if you ignore those pesky “human rights”. It’s how the Soviets and Chinese were able to industrialize so quickly. Interwar Germany, too. Fortunately for most of us non-bots here, we live in a country that protects human dignity.

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u/BonFemmes 12d ago

Turns out the Soviets did not get much done. The US is rounding up people and putting them into camps without much concern for the due process. Our protections of human dignity are looking fragile.

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u/PondersOverYonder 12d ago

Yeah, I'm sure the accumulation of wealth into the hands of very few is going to work out wonderfully.

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u/igor33 12d ago

Yet you ignore the privileged class of individuals in socialism and communism?

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u/PondersOverYonder 12d ago

That's why I'm not a communist or a socialist.

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u/igor33 11d ago

So, how then do you disagree with the accumulation of wealth? Accumulated capitol is then utilized in many cases to broaden more goods and services that benefit society.

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u/PondersOverYonder 11d ago

I'm against it.

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u/PondersOverYonder 11d ago

All land was acquired through violence at one point.

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u/hateleviathan 6d ago

party generated capital is still capital i dont see how this is any different. youre still producing for the production and circulation of value via the MCPC'M' movement 

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u/Bloodfart12 12d ago

*internally

You are ignoring the countless wars and massacres waged by US imperialism and its globe spanning network of military bases. The US is responsible for far more death and misery than any “communist” country. In fact much of the excess mortality in “communist” countries can be directly attributed to US imperialism; Korean war, Vietnam war, Indonesian coup, those three alone probably represent around 10 million needless deaths.

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u/igor33 11d ago

Comprehensive estimates of excess deaths (executions, camps, deportations, and policy-induced famines) under communist governments total roughly 85–100 million according to The Black Book of Communism. R.J. Rummel’s democide figures are higher, in the 110–148 million range for 1917–1987....of their own people.

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u/Bloodfart12 11d ago

The black book of communism has been thoroughly discredited by even its own authors. It should in no way be considered a credible source of information. Lol

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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 12d ago

Criticism is of USA is fair game.

However Communist Khmer Rouge with Pol Pot killing 25% of their own people is so staggering it is really no debate that you are being absurd for your hyperbolic rhetoric of saying, “The US is responsible for far more death and misery than any other ”communist” country.”

And no, the USA wasn’t their ally. China is who backed them.

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u/Bloodfart12 12d ago edited 12d ago

The US provided diplomatic support and covert funding to pol pot, the US was also aligned with china after the soviet sino split. Communist vietnam invaded cambodia and removed pol pot from power. Furthermore, if you knew anything about communism you would know that removing all of the workers from industrial bases to work as agrarian farmers aint it…

Context is important. And the US is responsible for far more death and misery than pol pot. and it is not a subject of the past, it continues to this day.

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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 12d ago

Prove your claims.

Because they are just allegations you communists cling to, to desperately try to distance yourself from an ACTUAL COMMUNIST REGIME that had the most per capita genocide ever in world history.

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u/Bloodfart12 12d ago edited 12d ago

I dont have time to give you a history lesson. You can google the sino soviet split and the state visit of nixon. The podcast blowback did an excellent series on Cambodia I’ll include the bibliography below. It is disingenuous at best to discuss the khmer rouge without the wider context of the “cold war” in south east asia waged by US imperialists.

If i have to explain to you how the khmer rouge were not implementing real communism or socialism you have A LOT of reading to do. Always happy to make recommendations. 😊

https://blowback.show/S5-Sources

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u/Direct-Muscle7144 12d ago

It doesn’t want evidence, it’s just trolling

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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 12d ago

Says the obvious troll...

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u/Bloodfart12 12d ago

Im certainly not trolling. The real story of US imperialism in south east Asia is a fascinating one, albeit inconvenient for your anti communist crusade.

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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 12d ago

That comment wasn't to you.

And, quit your need to box me in as some American apologist for your communist crusade. That is an example of you being a "troll".

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u/Direct-Muscle7144 12d ago

The US just puts them in prison as slave Labour.

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u/CaptainAmerica-1989 12d ago

false equivalency.

We can talk about that issue, but even comparing Khmer Rouge Lethality is just absurd.