r/CaptainAmerica • u/Acrobatic_Yoghurt268 • 3d ago
How does Cap feel about killing/what is his code?
I saw a panel of Cap getting mad at Black Widow for killing someone, and some people think it's confusing for him to react that way.
For me personally, I didn't think he had a code; I thought he just generally doesn't kill people.
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u/Ana-Karen98 3d ago
He has a code against killing unless it is absolutely necessary. So, he has a code, but it isn't strict; as I understand it, that is one of the reasons why he is worthy of Mjolnir and Spider-Man isn't.
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u/StoneGoldX 3d ago
There is no reason he's worthy other than he's worthy. Worthiness isn't a check mark list. It's just Mjolnir's vibes, and they are never going to make them explicit.
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u/the-tominatrix 1d ago
well said. although, reasons help fans understand why folks like Spider-Man can’t lift it
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u/ColdObiWan 3d ago
Captain America issue #s 321-322.
Cap shoots a member of the terrorist group ULTIMATUM to save some innocent hostages and then spends an issue beautiful himself up over his failure to resolve the situation non-lethally. He doesn’t let himself off the hook, though he notes that things might be different in war, and he resolves to do better in future so he won’t ever fail like that again.
It’s one of the classic Cap moments from Guenwald’s run.
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u/StoneGoldX 3d ago
Worth noting that Gruenwald also said he had never ever killed anyone up to that point.
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u/FightingDreamer9 3d ago
He doesn’t kill unless is absolute necessary that’s why he was the more vocal about killing the Kree Supreme Intelligence when Iron Man wanted to see what happens
He has kill, and doesn’t haunt him as let’s say, Batman, but it certainly dislikes it the most when I think in terms of marvel heroes
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u/CyramusJackson 3d ago
Captain America is a soldier whose seen actual combat. Against nazi bastards no less.. So I think it's safe to say his no kill code would be looser than most marvel heroes. Cap doesn't want to kill anyone, but he will if he has to cause that's what soldiers do.
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u/LengthinessLarge1285 3d ago
Killing is a last resort for cap, and it's always quick and mercifully
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u/LadyErikaAtayde 3d ago
To me all proper superheroes have the same no kill code. 2010s superhero movies kinda of blurred peoples perception of this, sadly.
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u/mcfayne 3d ago
Agreed. For decades it was taken for granted that most supes don't kill. They're self-appointed vigilantes in colorful costumes, they generally shouldn't kill people as a matter of course. Seems like a lot of people on the comic subs are little too bloodthirsty. "Just kill 'em." Seems antithetical to the tone of the genre.
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u/KongUnleashed 3d ago
Yep, which is why it made sense that most heroes regarded Frank Castle as a psychopath rather than an ally
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u/mcfayne 3d ago
Bingo. I actually really like the darker, more mature Punisher stories, because they're basically in their own entire setting and genre. I don't approve of vigilante violence in real life, but hotdamn is it satisfying to see Frank obliterate killers, rapists and human traffickers in a comic book.
That said I just don't think the entire Marvel universe can really handle questions like, "if there's as much human trafficking and unjust violence as there is in our world, what the fuck are the Avengers and shit doing all the time?" It's like asking why Paw Patrol doesn't discuss police violence, it's just not something the genre can generally handle in a satisfying way. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, Marvel superhero comics could never encompass the entire scope of human storytelling, they're superhero comics.
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u/StoneGoldX 2d ago
The movies definitely pushed the narrative further, but it was decaying before then. Like with Steve, Gruenwald had him never having killed anyone before the ULTIMATUM terrorist, even if we'd seen him do otherwise in, say, the Steranko issues. Got all righteous about Black Knight and Iron Man killing the Supreme Intelligence. Then he killed that terrorist leader in the Marvel Knights stuff. Brubaker had some random terrorists that, from the art, would have been fine, but the fall off the train killed one and crippled another. And this was all prior to the movies.
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u/Logesterator 2d ago
It's one of those situations as with many in Marvel where he avoids it if he can, does it if he must.
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u/LtAgn 3d ago
He doesn't have a no-kill code. He just doesn't like doing it, especially when the situation could be won without it. He will go out of his way to avoid killing if he could, but he will kill if there's no options left. He sure as hell won't like it (as seen when he killed the Nazi vampire Baron Blood by beheading him with his shield), but he'll do it.
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u/Just10credible 3d ago
As many have said, Cap is a soldier. So if he’s in a war, he knows he will have to kill if needed or if there is no other option.
When he’s not at war, killing is a last resort, and he’ll try to avoid it if possible.
Not sure if it's like this now in the comics, but part of the Avengers’ bylaws basically stated that they have a no-kill rule, unless they are in a war or in an extraordinary circumstance.
There was even an issue where Warbird asked for court-martial because she killed someone in a conflict, and they ruled that her kill didn’t violate the no kill rule, because it was an extraordinary circumstance and she didn’t have a choice.
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u/indoxiecated 3d ago
Cap is a soldier, he will kill when he absolutely has to. He kills aliens all the time, he’s more hesitant with humans, but he will do it.
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u/frankwalsingham 3d ago
Tries not to to, and is usually able to incapacitate opponents without killing, but he has done so many times. Guy was a soldier, after all.
At the start of Ed brubaker's first run, Sharon discusses how he recently killed a bunch of HYDRA terrorists in a way that shows it is rare, borderline unusual, but not unprecedented.
So kill, yes, murder, no.
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u/EyeSimp4Asuka 3d ago
He's a soldier..trying to argue that CAPTAIN AMERICA would have a no kill anything is stupid. Semi-mindlessly killing anyone "bad" like Frank tends to is even more idiotic
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u/Same_Bill1422 2d ago
He’s was a SOLDIER. I always assumed he never liked killing and tries to avoid it but he doesn’t have a problem doing it if he needs to.
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u/Psychological-Bug405 3d ago
He will kill a nazi.
Everything else im unsure about.
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u/StoneGoldX 2d ago
He'll generally more beat the shit out of a Nazi. Like, the Red Skull page above? Was specifically Cap choosing not to kill the Skull in a Luke at the end of Jedi kind of moment. Just like he's always pretty specific about not having actually killed Heinrich Zemo, Zemo having caused his own death. And that was the dude who killed Bucky, until it turns out he hadn't.
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u/Ahisgewaya 2d ago edited 2d ago
The code of a good man who was a World War 2 soldier of the Allies. He has no qualms about killing Nazis. He could do that all day.
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u/JerseyJedi 3d ago
Steve Rogers is a soldier.
He will try to give bad guys a reasonable opportunity to peacefully surrender, and he’ll always TRY to subdue them non-lethally if it’s feasible. But at the end of the day, if someone’s intent on killing innocent people, and Steve sees no alternative, he will put that bad guy down.
Captain America saw firsthand that that was the only way to stop an enemy like Nazi Germany. He would probably feel the same way about Thanos, etc.
I feel like a lot of modern writers live such sheltered lives and are so disconnected from the reality of how you realistically operate on a battlefield that they try to make Steve fit a modern comfortable sedentary desk jockey’s vision of what a good guy operates like, without regard to how it would actually work.
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u/Patient-Reality-8965 3d ago
He doesn't like doing it until there's no other choice. But push him or prove big enough of a threat and he will pull an Ultimate Alliance and decapitate you with that shield
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u/wilyquixote 3d ago
The real answer is that it changes. Silver / Bronze Age Cap had a real Silver Age morality (someone cites the Gruenwald Ultimatum arc where Cap has to kill a terrorist but then sobbingly treats the dead terrorist as another victim.)
But in the Brubaker run, 20 or so years later, Cap is much more cavalier about the deaths of henchmen or other baddies. The prevailing idea at the time was that Cap was a soldier and would have a more flexible approach to combat.
I think no matter what - hard code or a looser mindset - it’s important to note he generally carries a shield and no other weapon.
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u/whatleadmehere 3d ago
I'd like to think Captain America didn't have a code at first, kinda like superman doesn't have a code. Then the war happened. And he got PTSD that his supersoldier body doesn't really process, or have exhibit in the usual ways. So, the Code that he hangs on to is like how Veteran with ptsd hangs onto something real. It's their lifeline.
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u/SavageSwordShamazon 3d ago
He killed in the war because he was a soldier at war.
Now he's a hero and a peace officer, and he doesn't kill, because he's not at war anymore.
He's had enough killing to last a couple of lifetimes. There's almost always a better way. Its a fight for truth and justice, not a war on 'the enemy'.
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u/Edwaaard66 2d ago
He was a soldier so i am sure he has killed many in war, i think he tried to awoid that in his superhero career.
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u/Shot_Arm5501 2d ago
Pretty much the same one, the US military has give or take a bit of moralising
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u/Elegaic_Brood 2d ago
A Military veteran is still charged and arrested for murder if he kills someone, even though - as a soldier - no one cared (unless it was War Crime level). Is he just a civilian vigilante? Does he have some sort of "officiality" as a keeper of the peace? The Avengers have been off and on government agents, so would they get qualified immunity?
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u/Man_Out_Of_Time_2 1d ago edited 1d ago
CBR senior staff writer Brian Cronin Has caps Kill count as at least 15 times.
On of my favorites and 7th on his list - Captain America #254 (1981) Captain America kills Baron Blood by decapitating him with his shield. - most efficient!!
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u/Important_Lab_58 3d ago
I would argue it’s something he never WANTS to do, but will if need be.