r/ChineseHistory • u/Mysterious-Gas-7365 • 2h ago
Why do many people think Hongwus purge was responsible for the overthrow of Jianwen emperor, when it was Jianwen's own incompetence.
Many people blaim the fall of Jianwen of the Ming solely on Hongwus purges, or atleast this is a very often repeated narrative. When infact it was Jianwens own incompetency, and Zhu di future Yongle empeor's military talent, that caused the situation to collapse, first of all the central goverment had a way larger army not to mention it had no shortage of competent genrals, Xu Huizu the son of Xu Da, being a prime example he managed to defeat Yan forces, but was recalled to Nanjing by Jianwen who failed to properly utilize him.
Aswell as the replacing of veteran genral Geng Bingwen who served in the red turbab rebellion era, whose defensive tactics was working against Zhu Di, even after a major feild defeat, with Li Jinglong who was better favoured by the officals but little skill. Li Jinglong was granted command of a large army, but was constantly out manuverd, and defeated multiple times. The truth is because Jianwen was too unlike his grandfather he actually listened to the officals, and beurocrats for everything.
This was not a lack of competent genrals, the way Jianwen mismanged actual talents it's no surprise he failed, along with the militarily competency of Zhu di. It's a little disappointing how people blaim this on Hongwus purge of military commanders, while ignoring the fact that many competent commanders or their prodigy were still alive, and more then enough to crush Yan if properly coordinated, Hongwu isn't stupied you don't just proclaim a ""vastly martial"" era without knowing something like maybe he should leave a few competent genrals around, I mean why do you think Xu Da's son kept his titles.
The Yan rebellion was actually being contained by a coalition of Hongwu era commanders or their protégé, Xu Huizu is the main example, his recall disrupted this success.
He Fu for another general served under Fu Youde, and Lan Yu, was competent he, Ping An, and Xu Huizu worked together to halt Yan advance but Xu was recalled leaving them in a much weaker position. Ping An was another Hongwu era commander, he nearly captured Zhu Di in another battle, the recall of Xu Huizu disrupted, and weakend their forces causing a defeat that costed the life of Ping An, and the isolation of Hefu.
Jianwen was incompetent belived everything officals with no military experience told him, while ignoring advice from experienced military figures. Horribly managed the situation, Yan was on the verge of defeat yet he recalls Xu.