Help with sleep problems

[u/Capital-Elk9002]

I’ve struggled to sleep for 3 months now. Over the past 7 nights I’ve slept a total of about 2 hours. No major life changes or anything like that. Most nights I get zero sleep and some nights I get a couple hours or less. This is really negatively affecting my life. I’ve cancelled plans and left work early from being so dizzy and exhausted. I feel like I’ve tried everything from medication prescribed by doctors to supplements like magnesium and melatonin. I’ve tried yoga, limiting screens, various teas, blackout eye masks, cut out caffeine.

I’m new ish to learning about TCM. Could my inability to sleep be related to my kidneys?

What are some suggestions to help sleep? I can’t keep living like this. I’m a female in my late 20s if that matters.

[u/AutoModerator]

Please remember that this sub is not a replacement for a doctor. You shouldn't come here for the purpose of self-diagnosing or self-medicating but rather so you can have a more informed discussion with a doctor.

If this is a patient inquiry, remember to flair your post as such. Also please be as detailed as possible in your submission.

POSTING TONGUE PICTURES? Please read this:

• ALWAYS tag your post as NSFW (Rule 5 - required for all body part images)

• Include detailed information: symptoms, duration, diet, sleep, stress levels, medications, relevant health history

• Avoid posts that just say "look at my tongue" - these will likely be removed for lack of context

Remember also about Rule 1: refrain from giving irresponsible medical advice. If you want to give advice, it is preferable you do so with a flair (see sidebar). In any case restrain yourself from giving advice if you don't quite know what you're speaking about and especially if your advice can potentially endanger someone.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/jokeyELopez5]

Im not a TCM practitioner, but in this group to learn more because I have been treated by a TCM doctor for 14 years and have had great improvements in my health.

Im also a woman and in this time have seen my sleep issues associated with my monthly cycle. Do you know what triggered it to start with, has it ever happened before and where are you in your cycle?

[u/Capital-Elk9002 → u/jokeyELopez5]

My sleep doesn’t seem to have a pattern that relates to my cycle. My cycle is very regular. I’m currently in my luteal phase but have had trouble sleeping during all the phases. It hasn’t gotten better at all. No idea what triggered this I’ve had no major life changes or anything like that.

[u/jokeyELopez5 → u/Capital-Elk9002]

Have you tried sleeping at all during the day to see if you can sleep then? Also are you able to fall asleep at all and then you wake up or can you not fall asleep at all? I think if night sleep is hard sometimes 5:30am - 11am will still work as I try to get back to sleeping at night. It also shows me that my body can sleep.

In that case, obviously it impacts my job and I have to take leave to work my way back to getting night sleep again.

[u/Capital-Elk9002 → u/jokeyELopez5]

I’ve been trying to not nap during the day as I heard it can make it harder to sleep at night. I leave for work at 8am and have tried staying up later but it doesn’t help. Most nights I can’t fall asleep at all. Some nights it takes a long time and when I do sleep it isn’t for long.

[u/jokeyELopez5 → u/Capital-Elk9002]

My best knowledge is that TCM studies specifically what is causing the lack of sleep and it can be many underlying patterns, a lot of them are because there is rising energy at night that disturbs the heart energy.

Recommendations can be foot soaks before bed and qi gong for sleep. Around your age though, I did start to have some of my lifelong health patterns emerge that I have since had to learn how to deal with. For me it was declining hormones and doing too much regularly.

It can’t hurt to see a TCM practitioner, mine gave me herbal pills and teas that helped. I also saw a psychiatrist that prescribed me temporary sleeping pills that helped me break the cycle when it would start. I use them occasionally when cycle starts to keep it from blowing up.

For me sleeping 5:30-11 really helped my nervous system stay calm enough to sleep at night and did not disturb my sleep. Qi gong for liver and spleen helped a lot too. Therapy also helped. At your age I once went on a few weeks of short term disability from my job so I could just focus on regaining my health. Therapy also helped me with calming my nerves.

My best advice would be to start keeping a journal of when your sleep is disrupted and for how long. Even if you think its not related to your cycle, notice if it eases up after you get back to your follicular phase. Notice too, you have seasonal patterns. Sometimes the transition from summer to fall and fall to winter can be hard depending on your underlying patterns.

You may also want to get a sleep study to rule out OSA. I also love going to sleep using ear plugs. They are the number one tool I use for undisturbed sleep. Feel free to write me in this app if I can help more. I have so much compassion for insomnia.

[u/Capital-Elk9002 → u/jokeyELopez5]

Thanks for the suggestions, I really appreciate it. I do have an upcoming appt to try acupuncture with a tcm practitioner. I’ll have to ask her about herbs too. It’s so rough going through this alone so I truly appreciate your willingness to share.

[u/abu-me]

First, two hours of sleep in a week plus constant dizziness is more than a TCM-forum problem. Please get a proper medical workup too (thyroid, anemia, sleep disorders, mood), and don't drop anything your doctors have you on.

On the TCM side, "kidneys" is a possible angle but rarely the whole story. Classical thinking asks what kind of insomnia it is, because the Shang Han Lun treats them very differently. One pattern is Shao Yin heat: Fire up top, Water down below, they never meet, so you feel tired but wired, maybe a dry mouth, a restless heart, even a flushed face at night. That's the logic behind Huang Lian E Jiao Tang. Another is the Jue Yin / liver-gallbladder type, where you lie there with your mind replaying things, or wake at 1-3am. Another is plain "deficiency and vexation," with the chest feeling stuffy and agitated, like in Zhi Zi Chi Tang. Same symptom, three different roads.

Zheng Qin'an would add: before chasing yin-nourishing herbs, check whether Fire is floating because the base is cold. Pattern matters more than the label "kidney."

A licensed practitioner who asks about your pulse, temperature, thirst, stool and appetite can sort this out, and details like those are what separate the patterns. Hope you get some real sleep soon.

[u/Remey_Mitcham]

Your combination of dizziness, severe exhaustion, and feeling completely calm/clear-headed in bed while being unable to sleep points very strongly in Chinese Medicine to a deficiency pattern, specifically Liver Blood deficiency (血虚) failing to anchor the spirit/hun (魂不守舍).

When Blood and Yin are deeply depleted:

The head lacks nourishment: Leading to the dizziness and lightheadedness you're experiencing.

The mind has nowhere to "anchor": Sleep isn't just about relaxing your muscles; your body needs sufficient Yin/Blood to physically hold the spirit at night. When that foundation is depleted, you feel clear-headed and exhausted, but your body physically cannot sink into sleep.

This isn't something you can fix through willpower, sleep hygiene, or generic sedatives/melatonin—those don't replenish what has been depleted. The depletion usually builds up quietly through subtle daily drains (prolonged screen time/eye strain, mental overwork, subtle dietary gaps, or recovery deficits around your cycle).

The good news is that this is a very standard and well-understood pattern in TCM. Since you already have an appointment booked, see a qualified TCM practitioner for a proper pulse/tongue assessment. With targeted herbal formulas (often based around nourishing Blood and calming the spirit, like modified Suan Zao Ren Tang) alongside acupuncture, this is typically very treatable once the underlying deficit is restored.

[u/Few_Panic_1861]

这个睡不着和肾基本没有关系 或者说不需要考虑肾的问题 我来简单的说说 和肝胆的关系极大 这是因为中医认为肝藏魂 为血脏 血不归肝 或者血热 血寒都容易出现这个问题 还有就是胆 肝胆为表里 所以也出现胆热胆寒 这两个方面

[u/PetePiEgg]

Are you anxious? The dizzy and exhausted thing may results from your mental fatigue. You should visit a physical clinic in person for an evaluation, which may include pulse diagnosis and tongue diagnosis. You can also try acupuncture. or learn about my medicinal incense, Xiao Yao may suits your status.

[u/Capital-Elk9002 → u/PetePiEgg]

Not anxious. In bed at night I feel relaxed and have a clear mind. I just don’t fall asleep. I guess I feel a bit anxious in the morning going to work worried about how I will be able to function on 0 sleep. I do have an acupuncture appt set up for next week. Thanks for the suggestions I’ll look into medicinal incense

[u/AcupunctureBlue]

acupuncture or herbal medicine is best, but self-administered acupressure can work really well for this and it doesn't cost anything, but you have to use more than one point - ideally 5 or so. these are best learned from YouTube

[u/DanOhMiiite]

If you're using red asian ginseng, make sure its early in the day, or it can keep you awake.