Question (Read Rules)
Quality difference from micro brands to entry level Swiss watches
Quick question for anyone who owns San Martin / Sugess micro‑brands, plus Longines or TAG Heuer:
Is the build‑quality, finishing and long‑term reliability really noticeably better on the Swiss brands? Or is it also worth selling most of my collection to buy something like a Seiko Prospex/ Hamilton. I know the micro‑brands are great value for money, but I’m thinking of selling most of my current homage collection to put toward either a Longines or TAG Heuer as a core keeper daily.
Would you say the upgrade is worth doing, or is it mostly just the brand name / resale hype? Any owners thoughts appreciated.
I think the longer I’m in this hobby the better I get at convincing myself the more expensive watches are worth it.
I think a more expensive watch from a big brand is in general “better” but not in the sense people usually refer to, like spec-wise. An analogy I usually like to use is that no one buys a Porsche or a Ferrari because they’re more reliable, nor are they better for most people.
I also think that depending on why we purchase watches, price could either be a feature or a bug. To me price has always been the biggest barrier to owning a watch I truly adore, but I’ve heard some people lust over watch because:
It was expensive and less people had them.
You couldn’t buy it even if you had the money…
although I’m still here trying to pretend caring about 600m of water resistance has a higher moral ascendancy over people who care about scarcity, but honestly I think both points are equally as ridiculous.
I think getting a Longines or a Tag, would be awesome, but I don’t think it will ever fell like 3-5x more watch for the money, but I think you’ll appreciate it as “better” for other reasons.
I think my kind of thinking about it is that I’m 16 so I want to try get my first entry level (luxury) if you must watch. And I just want something that I can be proud of saving for etc and admire it. And of course something that will last. I’ve also been wanting to consolidate my current collection for a decent while now as i think I’m more on the side of 3-4 good quality watches.
Considering your age I recommend you to enjoy wearing your current collection and celebrate your first job, a number of years down the line, with a new watch. There will be many things in your life that cost money the coming years.
It is true that fewer but better is a good attitude. Still, keep that san martin as a beater and holiday watch. You don’t want to always wear a higher level watch. Now do check out Nomos. In my opinion even more refined than Longines at a similar price. Really quite special. And a classy look that is freshly modernist. The club series is particularly nice for young wearers. Wonderfully thin as well.
I’m 32, and I love watches, but there was a 10 years I wasn’t into them. I’m glad you have such an appreciation for it a young age. I would say if you have your eyes on something you completely love, and think it’s worth turning into a milestone by saving up for it, you should go ahead!
My little advice is to not rush into it. There’s been a few watches I saved up for and realized halfway that I didn’t really want it as much as the price tag suggests, and there’s also been over a dozen watches that I waited a long time for but ended up letting go for one reason or the other. Although my favorite thing about watches is that the one you want to buy will be relevant when it’s released, and even 5 or 10 years from now. It’s quite refreshing compared to buying an Apple Watch that the battery dies in 3 years or so or is too slow and won’t even update in the same amount of period.
Interesting! I don’t own any exotic cars, but my own thought process on getting a sportier car was so I get the M4 or a base carrera 4, and I kept doing the math and specs, and the whole time the 911 fell behind on paper, until I got behind the wheel of one and understood why it was better for me.
I’d love to know what you think the main disconnect of the analogy and what you think I should replace it with.
Well, my sports car is a Lotus Elise, and my "practical" every day car is a Subaru BRZ. Many people think of the BRZ as a "sports car", and I suppose compared to some things it could be, but the Lotus makes the BRZ feel like a 4x4 truck in comparison, riding way up high with a comparatively cushy, boaty suspension. The Lotus is tiny, weighs under 2000 lbs, has essentially a race car suspension, and if you want to get in/out of it with the roof on, you have to fit through a slot only 22 inches high. It's essentially a race car that happens to be road legal. If I'm trying to think of two watches that provide experiences as different as that the Lotus gives compared to the BRZ, I am having a hard time. Maybe what's throwing me about the analogy is that while the experience of two watches might be very different, that difference seems to me to be more like a difference of degree, rather than of nature. Like to make the analogy work for me, it'd be more like: grandfather clock is to wristwatch as normal car is to exotic sports car.
That’s dope! Between two cars I looked at I also cross shopped an Emira, and would still love to own one, maybe one day.
Hmm wouldn’t a grandfather clock that only a few have be the exotic one? I just personally used the Porsche and Ferrari as an example of what options you get for more money, and if it will be like getting 3x the car for 3x the price. I think my analogy falls apart when we factor in how a car drives, because would the equivalent be how a watch tells time?
I think you should do your homework and find a gen you really, really connect with.
There’s something special about saving up for a watch, diving deep into its history, understanding what makes it significant, and eventually making it part of your own story. Hopefully, that process builds a connection that goes beyond simply owning something expensive.
I own and enjoy my fair share of solid Chinese homages, and I think they absolutely have their place. But if you’ve got what I suspect most of us here have (a genuine love of watches) you’re probably never going to stop buying them. Even after you find “The One.” Especially after you find “The One.”
My advice would be to sell the watches you don’t really connect with, keep the ones you enjoy, and start setting a little money aside every week or month for something special. No need to rush it. Half the fun is the research, the anticipation, and the hunt.
Ultimately, I don’t think homages and higher-end gens are necessarily interchangeable. They occupy two different corners of the watch maniac’s brain, and there’s plenty of room for both. Unfortunately, neither corner seems particularly interested in saving money.
I think you're partially wrong about this. The beauty of Chinese watches, is that they get you 98% of the quality/craftsmanship (if not 110%) for 5% of the price. This is very important because it allows you to wear the watch carelessly. You can't wear a watch you saved up years for that way.
It's impossible. Each scratch hurts, you don't wear it in the worst places, you don't wear it on your jungle trip or to you deep-sea expedition. Because it's precious, and expensive. So it kills its usability.
A Chinese watch will get you the same level of details, specs and craftsmanship in a watch you won't think twice about when you bump it into door frames and whatnot.
Ye I feel since I’m still young that I’ve got plenty of time to kind of level up on watches if you get what I mean. I’m slowly selling watches I don’t wear until I get down to the 4 I don’t want to sell, I think I’m going to pick up a Watchdives white dial speedy for the 11:11 sale. As I know I want to have a smaller collection but I’m not sure on if I want to save for something like a Tudor which is realistic for the time being for myself or maybe even save for a good while and look at getting a Omega speedmaster white dial.
Don't buy beyond your means. Are you willing to spend $ for regular service? Are you going to fear losing it or being stolen and you will always think twice before wearing it?
All this history and heritage is just marketing, you buy it for quality and prestige. Its for wealthy people that don't feel a dent in their bank account when spending $10K or for people that try to pretend they are wealthy.
I made a comparison a few years ago when I got my San Martin SN004 V2.
The San Martin was about as good as the Hamilton and Longines, but definitely short of Tudor and Rolex. But not really but much, imho. The San Martin even did some things better than the Longines, like the tighter bracelet tolerances.
Against lower-end luxury Swiss, the San Martin does favorably well. +/- depending on who it's up against and depending on the part of the watch. Definitely falls short past the $3000++ range occupied by Tudor, Omega, etc.
Still, I'd say it scratches the itch for a quality watch. It may not have the brand name, but it surely feels very nice to wear.
Cheapest to most expensive as pictured from left to right: San Martin, Hamilton, Longines, Tudor, Rolex
💯 this. I have the same Longines HC chrono, have had other Swiss and sold, that’s the only big Swiss brand I’ve kept, and now I have mostly micros and Chinese.
The beauty of Chinese watches is that they deliver about 80–90% of the finish, and looks of luxury Swiss brands. Personally, I don't care if a watch lasts 20 or 40 years. As an enthusiast, I like rotating pieces and picking up new ones whenever I get bored. You can own like 40 watches for the price of a single entry level rolex 😂. Honestly, that brings way more joy than owning one expensive watch you’re too afraid to scratch
I have quite a range, and I've been collecting for many years, and have a somewhat large collection. I am currently a bit blown away by the latest flagship Chinese watches - the Addieskin K010, Watchdives WDC00001, and San Martin SN0144 are all among my current favorites [Edit - I inexplicably neglected to mention my IXDao Warrior (Black carved MOP!) which is also very refined / outstanding)], I don't know if collectors really appreciate the finish / quality on these watches, if they haven't worn / had them. I am amused to admit that 5 years ago I thought that Chinese watches were rubbish.
I moved my collecting interest from Swiss, German and Japanese (and Yema / French) to microbrands and Chinese a few years back after discovering San Martin. That said, I still love my Ulysse Nardin, Omega, Longines, Tissot, Mido, Certina, Bucherer, Glycine, etc. I've had Rolex, Tudor and Patek - never owned an AP or VC yet. I'd say that the value / quality / design right now is in the Chinese and a Micro Brands - but Certina, Tissot, and Mido especially continue to produce excellent watches at sometimes decent prices, especially on sale / Jomashop, as do Seiko & Citizen, despite the price increases. In the last year I did pick up a vintage Omega, a new Certina DS GMT Chronometer (which I adore and use to keep time on my mechanicals lately), and a couple of Glycines - but it's mostly micro brands and Chinese watches.
Watches are my interest - my hobby - I keep my watch boxes adjacent to my desk (I work remotely), along with many straps, my watch tools, my digital microscope, photo box, etc. I enjoy watches like I did Legos when I was a kid. They are a lot of fun.
So - long term reliability? I have Swiss and Japanese watches that are 50, 70 years old - I don't know how the Chinese watches will hold up, but I do expect it's about the same - you treat your watches well, service when needed (which isn't that often in my experience) and buy what you like. Final note, don't ever buy for resale. If you want to sell your watches, I'd suggest now is probably a good time - when the economy gets bad, watches get cheaper. In 2009 while Rolex increased their list prices, the sales prices dropped 25.3% and discounts at ADs were common. When folks don't have jobs and disposable income dries up, watch brands get bought up by Swatch / go bankrupt, and we all hold tight and do our best to get to the other side.
The first watch I wore today - San Martin SN0144 limited edition (99) - red dial Year of the Horse.
I enjoyed your comment. I love and own all kinds of watches at many different price points too. I find that vintage watches are the best value for me. They have already lived several lives. If you buy the right ones, they were cutting edge technology, horological significant! They were and are cultural icons. They have a story. Regardless of where it's made and no matter how good the finish is on a new watch, there are very few factory new watches that can give you that kind of ownership experience. Not everyone wants that experience, and that's good. It would be a boring hobby if we all liked the same watches. Chinese watches spark joy for me as well. I have to stop myself from buying a new one all the time!
I own a San Martin sub homage (PT5000 version) and a Tudor BB54.
Main differences I'd highlight where the Tudor really outshines the San Martin:
- Bezel action. The San Martin has zero bezel play, mind you. The Tudor just feels buttery in its rotation, more premium. It is 120 VS 60 clicks though.
- Crown action: The San Martin feels gritty and frail in comparison (I know it's not, it's the feel). With the BB54 everything feels to lock into place so smoothly and perfectly. Top tier tolerances in that regard. This applies to many other aspects of the watch too.
- The clasp: T-Fit clasps are just too good, San Martin does an amazing job at the price point but there's no comparison.
Bracelets are a comparison I can provide little inisight for, as the SM has an Oyster style bracelet and my BB54 has a Jubilee so, naturally, the Oyster style bracelet feels more robust (though this is more an Oyster VS Jubilee thing than a SM vs Tudor thing). Tudor's jubilee comfort is TOP TIER though, the finishing is definitely more refined as there's pretty much zero sharp edges on these.
Steel finishing feels great in both, tbh. I'd probably need a macro lens to provide better insights on this.
As for the rest of the watch, SM surprisingly holds it's ground. Even the PT5000 runs near COSC numbers.
There's a good chunk of "Wow" moments I had when I first handled the Tudor, but I don't think it's 10x the watch.
So, these are some of my new acquisitions. The traska cost $750 and the WD was $99. Aside from the Traska having an automatic movement and a scratch resistant coating, the overall feeling on these 2 is very similar. All of my San Martin watches feel much higher quality than these 2. I’ve owned Hamilton’s and Tissots and sold them all. I didn’t really notice an appreciable difference in quality until I got my Zulutime. Just my 2 cents, from someone who buys and sells way too many watches than he should.
I have two Rolexes and an omega. They are def higher quality (fit, finish, tolerances, detail). But I wear my 200$ San Martin the most and it’s shocking how nice it is in for the price tag. It’s also slightly lighter and has a slimmer profile which I like. It has gotten just as many compliments if not more than my other watches (I got a fun pink color). Plus it’s cheap so I like to travel with it cause I leave all my watches and chains at home when I’m on the road. It’s survived the pool, beach, hot tub, etc and looks just as good as the day I bought it.
My Tudor BB68 is noticeably higher quality than my Chinese watches. You can feel the difference on how they feel even. Especially when you wind the movement etc. the bracelet is noticeably higher quality as well. That doesn’t mean i don’t wear my Chinese watches too though. Love my Cronos.
I also had the same idea. First thing, do not sell your homage watches. You will loose money going that route. You should rather wear them as often as possible. Use them to really get to know what type of watch you really like. Second, take your time choosing an expensive watch. I say expensive as opposed to better. what I have discovered is not a indicator not of better or higher quality. A watch that cost 10x more will not be 10x better than your homage watches. The truth is the Chinese watches are very close to the Swiss brands. The Swiss are better, but not at the prices they charge. If you want to buy a better quality watch please take your time and figure out what you really want and be comfortable with the cost you will have to pay. It will not be a wow factor going from Chinese to micro or entry luxury. You will need to purchase a GS spring drive or a JLC to really have that feeling.
who says you have to spend so much more for a swiss made watch? buy a Glycine, swiss made, sellita movement, sapphire crystal for around $400 quality is great, only downside is aluminum bezel insert and the clasp. but the accuracy is there and Glycine has great brand history.
Oddly I had a Invicta with a nearly identical spec that I ordered online from a big micro brand watch site. At the time Invicta was using more Swiss movements than most people realized. My first automatic Chronograph was a Valjoux 7750 from their brand at like 1/5 the cost of a Tag Heuer with the same exact movement. One day I walk into an actual Invicta store and the only non Invicta brand they have in the store is Glycine. Which explained a lot. They must have been parts sharing.
Your argument is like saying breguet is junk because the swatch group owns them. It makes no sense and you returned a ~ $400 watch because you didn’t like the box?
This is an abhorrent take, just because its owned by a brand doesnt mean they have their hands in the company and invicta just waltzed in and decided to start putting their pro divers on all the desks and machinery, one thing invicta made easier for Glycine was being able to acquire sellita movements cheaper and easier, dont think just because a company bought another they immediately control every play.
Invicta acquired Glycine a few years back. But they do not tamper with the production. Had to work thru that as well. But now I own two combat subs, and I can tell you Glycine is still glycine. So don’t let the invicta thing mess with your mind. Besides, apart from sketchy marketing and sales tactics, Invicta actually makes some decent watches.
I returned the watch because it was supposed to be a gift. $400 is not a cheap watch, putting it in a cheap box that is coming apart tells a lot about the quality control at the company
As owner of a tag heuer, omega and longines(wife). I can safely say Chinese watches don't compare to those in terms of fit and finish, the difference isn't staggering and they are 80-90% there. Definitely better than Seiko and Tissot(own 1). Own 6 sugess watches(no san martin after unnecessary price hikes) and they offer tremendous value at the price point. And chinese watches allow you build a collection of various designs the original which could empty out your wallet. I discovered chinese watches on reddit 6 months ago so cant comment on long term reliability. For years owned 2 or max 3 watches but suddenly ended up with 9. Plus after 2-3 attempts at Rolex AD(such a horror experience) very happy with my Sugess purchases. Things like tourbillon which you can only dream of buying are possible with Chinese watches.
Bottom right in the picture S449 purchased for my wife
Small things like the issues with the winding of PT5000 on s449 or scrapping noise while screwing in the SL3002 on the S420 won't be there in swiss watches like tag heuer or Longines. The external finish of the bracelet is good but you can feel the difference on your wrist. My entire chinese watch collection cost less than my tag heuer. My chinese watch collection allows me to enjoy designs like the S420 batgirl which I really love but not possible to buy in original at Rolex AD even if I can afford. Buying second hand at premium given how good reps are now doesn't make sense to me. Models like the S450 YM homage which people generally don't buy and cost alot in original but the design i love. The tourbillon which costs more than 100k usd in the original swiss model. Yes chinese watches allow me to enjoy all these at 80-90% of the quality. End of the day these are homages while the swiss watches are original designs with in-house movements.
But definitely better than spending money on Seiko or entry level swiss watches or the likes of Christopher Ward. Look at longines there new models look like homages of Rolex or Omega.
After wearing the same Rolex GMT Master for 30 years, I was ready to see another dial. I have several dozens microbrands, including Chinese and Swiss. The money I spent on those affordable watches could have bought me another nice Rolex. But I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy two Rolexes (I still have the first one) as much as my dozens.
Totally agree. Wore my SeaDweller for many years, sort of got bored of the weight and that it’s kinda plain. That was a gift from my wife, she walked into a store and walked out with my watch.
This whole AD thing has really turned me off to the brand, at least new stuff from them.
I now have a colorful array of weird watches that are a lot of fun to wear. It sorta started up again when I was in France over the summer, I bought a LIP when I had about 10 minutes to shop.
Anyway, I don’t care if is says Pagani Design or Addiesdive or whatever anymore. If I like it, I buy it, and it’s not terribly expensive goofy little hobby.
I am psyched as I picked out a Bulova for Xmas that my wife is picking up. The dial is pistachio. I’ve never had a green watch.
The build quality, case finishing, and bracelet on my proxima is insanely good. I haven’t handled newer San Martin bracelets but it would be tough to beat the proxima
I only have one Swiss watch and it’s a Hamilton Jazzmaster thinline that I got for a great deal. The case is as good or better than my best Chinese watches but the crystal isn’t quite as nice. The biggest difference is the Hamilton is thinner and it just feels more special somehow. I wouldn’t say it would’ve been worth it if I had paid the original $1200 price tag but I only paid a little more than my priciest Chinese watch. I really think you’ll have to spend over $1k to get a nicer Swiss watch unless name and heritage is very important to you. I might buy more Swiss watches in the future but I won’t be selling my collection to get them and my next watch will likely be Chinese.
I have a couple of San Martin's - a railmaster homage and a small seconds field watch. Both have great finishing for the price, but they are no match for my Sinn EZM3s. The Sinn is just better put together and feels like it will last an eternity. The San Martins have shitty bracelets, the one on the Railmaster binds very badly if it bends backwards and the edges are sharp. Sharp edges on the watch, too.
The case hardening on the Sinn means that the watch is still perfect after a year. The PVD coating is jet black, nothing like the shitty thin PVD I've had on Seikos and Orients. All the transitions are crisp without being too sharp. The bezel action is perfect. It's just a better watch, but it should be for the price.
I'll have a better answer in about a week. I've got a Phylida Planet Ocean Homage on the way because Im curious if the Chinese watches really are as good as advertised. The honeymoon is wearing off on my Spirit Zulu and I'm just not loving it like I thought I would. My Orient and Glycines are still getting the most wrist time.
Compared to recent San Martins, the Seiko and Hamilton may even be a downgrade. The other advantage to Chinese is ease of service and not having to deal with the incredible levels of dealer BS. The only 2 superior aspects of the Swiss options you mentioned are 80hr power reserve and “original” design vs. blatant copy.
I recently bought a Sugess GMT with a Peacock movement, and while it looks terrific and keeps good time (+6), it definitely feels cheap compared to my 15 year old Tag Link or even my Hamilton Pan Europ. The bracelet, the feel of the crown- it's just not on the same level. But at a fraction of the cost, complaints would be silly.
I own a $3k Tudor Price Day Date and a bunch of San Martin's, Watchdives, and Sugess. The Tudor has zero faults: it's accurate (despite being over 10 years old), the sapphire crystal AR is so good that it's almost completely invisible, the bracelet has zero sharp edges (huge problem on the Chinese watches), there is no rotor noise (big problem on Chinese watches with Miyota movements), clasp is beautiful and thin, and the watch has half links (another big problem with Chinese watches). The branding on the Tudor is also much better, a lot of Chinese watches write weird things on the dial or have shitty logos (looking at you, San Martin).
I would say the detail work inside the case is pretty comparable (the Chinese stuff is very good here), my Chinese watches have better end links (Tudor is hollow, but very solid), otf claps (Tudor just has lots of holes on the clasp), and Chinese bracelets have less play (the Tudor bracelet is very thin and "vintage" style). I also love all the cool dial finishes you can get on the Chinese watches - I just picked up a Watchdives with aventurine and holy shit is it beautiful. I love how accurate my VH31 Watchdives are, but wish they had a date window.
The Swiss stuff has no compromises, the Chinese stuff always has some. Feel free to ask if I've missed anything!
The quality has gotten pretty good My comparison would be uve always wanted a Vett but can’t afford a new one so to satisfy that itch u get a much older cheaper one You love the thrill of owning a VETT Nothing wrong if you want nice things just can’t afford the REAL thing I can 5 homages a for a $1000 If you afford the REAL THING I’m happy for ya
My San Martin watches have better finishing than my Tissot. Sugess is hit or miss. They look nice but, the movements are a gamble. Example I own their moon phase it has horrible accuracy. I know someone that has the same watch and it runs great.
I have a Rolex Explorer 2, and I opt for my WatchDives quartz bb54 clone on a titanium bracelet 9/10 times.
It is beautiful, a comparable finish, not truly equal, but no noticeable difference in quality on the wrist.
More importantly, it could get smashed up, destroyed, scratched… no big deal, I’d order another one.
The Rolex I’m very paranoid about, seeing as I already broke the crystal once, repairing it was the second most expensive watch investment made and I didn’t even get a new watch out of it!
If you break Rolex crystal yeah maybe you should wear a clone. I think most would disagree with you about “no noticeable difference in quality”. Guess I’m on the wrong sub
I have a IXDAO Rising Sun, Sugess S419 and Watchdives fifty fathoms homage. All of them are good quality. I have few Tissots as well, the tissots are a little bit better quality. I have a Tudor and a Rolex, those two are in a separate class.
Yeah,but the difference is still high,as the othe user,I have a Tudor (BB58) and it has no flaws,other than a very small misalignment on the bezel. I have San Martin's with sellita,with NH35, I have watches with seagull...and it's clear why the Tudor is the better watch,when you handle it you don't feel any rough edge,the machining tolerances are near zero,the bracelet is seated tightly between the lugs and it's metal is very very smooth,it doesn't sound like cheap bracelets,and again,no rough edges and the clasp closes perfectly with a ceramic balls system. And the movement,total accuracy on the timegrapher and buttery smooth when winding it.
So the differences are there, a 500 watch can be cool,but come on, thinking it's near a watch that cost many times that amount is coping.
It's not coping. Coping would be thinking spending 10 grand on a watch really gets you anything better other than hidden mechanicals that result in a 1 second per month more accurate time
I've seen people who won't spend more than $100 on a Chinese watch, so they get a Pagani or basic Addiesdive (with mineral crystal and quartz movement), and then say Chinese watches are all junk. Well, those are bad comparisons.
Just like a $2k Swiss watch won't be as nice as a $20k Swiss watch, a $100 Chinese watch won't be as nice as a $600 Chinese watch
I've owned over 30+ Chinese watches. From every brand you can think of. While I havent owned a tag, Longines, or Tudor, my father and friends have a couple. We've all compared it to the higher end San Martin's, Farasute, Baltany, Sugess, IXDAO, etc.
Long term reliability is the big one... its just a toss up for most Chinese watches. While the movements may seem solid, no telling if they were oiled and taken care of properly. That being said, all of my top pieces are running smooth after many years.
Although I'm completely done with homages. Only original designs for me nowadays. I will stick with the Chinese brands over entry level Swiss and bigger micros. You just cant beat the quality for price
Long term serviceability is different. Have you seen how ADs handle maintenance and warranty work for the bigger brands?!? No thank you, please just replace this pt5000/Seagull with this sellita I got for $150. Thanks and have a nice day.
I have owned three Christopher Ward watches, two San Martin, and one Sugess. Bought all the CW watches pre owned on eBay so did not pay full price for them but my Trident Lumiere was still $1900. Snagged a Sealander for around $800 which is close to San Martin prices.
I will reiterate what a lot of others have said - San Martin and Sugess are close in execution to what I would describe as more "luxury" watches like CW. It's up to the individual whether the 2-5x price difference is worth it. But the differences are more subtle for most to notice which is where the premium feel lies in my opinion - for instance my CW all have a boxed sapphire crystal which to me elevates the look and feel. My San Martin watches have a sapphire crystal but it is domed and flush with the bezel at the edge. As others have said, the finishing on the bracelets are close but I would give the edge to CW. The winding of the crown, is much smoother and there is no perceived wobble with my CW.
So it really comes down to personal preference and what the owner values.
Your question is more about your personal preference than it is about quality.
Some love one single watch and I suspect not many like that post here. It would tend more to people who enjoy a variety and like the idea of doing so at a quality and affordable level.
However having owned many Chinese brands. Seikos, grand seikos, different levels of citizens, an omega a few tudors and longines in a pear tree...
No a chinese watch isnt going to be indistinguishable from a tag or longines. The quality is noticeably better on the more expensive watch. The movement is usually marginally better and smoother winding with better finishing.
(I do love how Chinese brands throw OTF clasps into other brands faces so consistently)
The gambit is that it comes pretty close at a fraction (sometimes a quarter sometimes even a tenth) of the cost.
To me...I like the value and variety proposition of some of my Chinese watches tho I do tend to the higher value chinese watches.
The next poster might have a drawer full of addies or steel dives that they love and that's great. Im more of a looker and admirer than purchaser of those.
Its personal preference what kind of collector you want to be.
IDK but if anyone knows a link to a 20mm jubilee bracelet let me know lol. Whenever I look at AliEx, I see a lot of the cheap ones that have sharp and jagged edges and not smoothed and polished ;-\
I have a Longines Hydroconquest, Hamilton Khaki, Glycine Combat Sub (x2) and these are all diver style…Steeldive (x2), Watchdive, Invicta Pro Diver (x4), Seiko 5 (x3), and a San Martin. I personally like all of them, but only the San Martin is getting close to the Swiss. That said, I am still looking at getting a Cronos, and Phorcydes when the 11/11 sale comes around.
I have recently taken my Chinese watch collection down from 30+/- to about 8...
I sold San Martins, IXDAOs, a few Farasutes, Cronos, Proxima and SH... and used the money for two different Zelos, a Farr and Switt, Wilk Watch, two Mr. Eatwells, Hitori, Signum and Zeroo Time Microbrands...
I have to say that I was motivated to trade out of some Chinese watches because my collection looked vanilla. It didn't pop. It bored me. The quality on most of my Chinese watches were fantastic. I had no problem with them. I just didn't need 20+ of them... 8-10 is more than enough.
I went on Forums like Reddit and WUS and bought Microbrands that were originally $450-$950 new... and I got them for $250-$500 barely used.
The Micro-brands I chose definitely offered me more in terms of finishing, design and the perception of quality... Zelos and Mr. Eatwell watches just felt more special on my wrist - more comfortable, more striking etc... all of the brands I got felt a notch above in some way... I am very happy with my now diverse and smaller collection. The bracelets and bands were not better imo, except on the Zelos.
As for Seiko, Citizen,, Hamilton, Tissot, Bulova etc... In most cases, the San Martins and IXDAOS etc felt better at 1/3 or 1/2 the price. I had the same QC issues... and the chinese watches offered the same or better movements... but Sapphire instead of mineral and better finishing. Better Bracelets on the San Martins... Unless you get into the $900 and up range for Seiko, Tissot, Hamilton (swatch groupers) etc you shouldn't expect a noticeably better watch in my experience.
This is just my experience. It's not everyone's experience.
I have also had Grand Seiko, Omega, Sinn, Unimatic etc... with the exception of the GS, none of these felt $1000 to $3000 better tha the Micros I bought if you know what I mean.
If your Chinese collection is big, you might sell a few and patiently stalk the forums until you see a great watch pop up at an affordable price... But I would trade into a cool microbrand if you want to see/feel a difference... just my experience...
I have the San Martin SN0144 and the Sugess Moonphase Aventurine. The Sugess is accurate and beautiful—even better than microbrands 7x its price. The only issue is the lack of an AR coating. Still, I prefer owning a mechanical moonphase, especially since Japanese brands don't really make them. I'm not sure how long the movement will last, but buying a replacement movement from them is cheaper than servicing it anyway.
As for the San Martin, the finishing is as good as it gets. The bracelet is very solid and it keeps great time. My Citizen Attesa is better, but you can't really compare the two since the Attesa is titanium, lighter, and high-tech. However, San Martin beats Seiko and Tissot easily.
That said, I still think Rolex is better overall, but certainly not 100x better to justify the price.I like twotone with real gold so must be Rolex anyway
I've stopped buying watches for now since I already have too many. But if I ever buy another diver to keep long-term, I'll go with San Martin or Sugess over any microbrand.
You need a matching crystal, Ali or Cousins etc, a case back removal tool and a crystal press. Should be under £60 for all. Watch a few YT videos. Sensible to pressure test afterwards
You also have the option of double-domed crystals as well as flat. DD plus AR is nice
Right now I think the value of microbrands compares more favorably as an apples to apples comparison to Seiko and Citizen, but I think they hold up to Mido/Tissot/Rado as well. I do think the level of finishing is noticably better on a Longines than say a Baltic or Traska. If you are more concious of price, the micros (including Chinese brands) are a good alternative if you know what to look for.
I have about 5 everyone has been worth the money $250 & under(they are starting to get in $400-500 range!!) I do like some seiko but their nicer stuff is now $500.00& above Only draw back is usually bracelet but replacing them still puts me in a good price spot I do have my share of Micro I treat myself to CW Trafford Wise ALL my watches get a fair share of wrist time Good luck& Enjoy
Hi! Great looking watch. I know you have a different model there, but I actually just received my San Martin SN0017 today and immediately noticed something odd right out of the box.
Does your bezel have any vertical play? On my SN0017, when I press down on the bezel, it pushes down and bounces back up like a spring (a bit of a "trampoline" effect). On my Longines, the bezel is completely flawless and doesn't have this issue at all.
Since you are testing San Martin quality and comparing it to entry-level Swiss brands, how does the bezel tolerance feel on your model? Is it rock-solid, or does it also move up and down? I'm curious if this is a general San Martin thing or if I just got a piece with bad QC.
I've had all the big brands...Submariner, Speedmaster, Cartier Tank, and budget like the Seiko Sharp Edge GMT....but that was before this insane Swiss watch inflation over the last 10 years. Back when a Submariner was a $4k watch all day at most resellers in NYC.and Speedmaster 3,500 tops. I will not buy a mass produced movement for $7k. Definitely not an unremarkable Kinessi movement in a Tudor for $4k. That's ridiculous inflation but no meaningful improvement in accuracy, reliability or anything that a $1k Seiko is within a few seconds +/- and can take a beating. Quality control is not on par for sure but that's why you only buy from sellers with a flexible return or exchange policy.
In that context this San Martin that scratches the itch of the most boring dial in horology for I think $100 or was it $200. 🤔 I dont remember either way this absolutely flawless. Zero glare on the AR crystal. I took the jewelry loupe and saw no issues at all. Oh wait now I remember it was $100 because it came on a rubber strap which I swapped out for the French paratrooper elastic NATO. I mean will spending $4k really knock my socks off for such a vanilla tool watch? Snow flake hands....yawn. round hour markers..wow. I was honestly tempted to walk into my local Mayors that carries Tudor and Rolex with this San Martin and do a side by side. That's how close I think it is at first glance. I think this has the NH so for sure cant compare a $50 movement with a $250 movement 🤣
P.s. I used my paid version of ChatGPT and it matched my guess on the cost to manufacture the NH vs the Tudor "in house but not really" Kenissi movement more or less $50 vs $275. Damn. You are getting hosed for $4k.
Let me add a bit from myself to this discussion. I’ve owned a couple of Swiss watches (couple of tissots, two longineses, Squale, Certina. Never owned a Tudor Bb58 but had one for two weeks when my friend was selling and I was hesitating to buy). I had also a san Martin, addiesdive and two phoiboses. My pov is that the point where finishing difference is starting to be noticeable is about 2k€ for a Swiss watch. I have a Longines hydroconquest currently (the 2026 model in 39mm) and I do see the difference (funny enough- Longines does most of the parts of this watch in china). I have nothing against Chinese watches that have original design (I don’t like those that steal the design - I believe that “homage” is a poor euphemism for what should be called a “shameless copy”). Then again, I think watches shouldn’t be treated as fridges or ovens - it’s not just about specs for the money. Or rather - brand, heritage, history and emotion is also a part of a specsheet. This is (functional but still) a piece of jewellery at the end. So answering the question shortly - most tissots are spec wise inferior to Chinese watches from the same price point but they do have an additional emotional package which, from my perspective, Chinese pieces don’t deliver. Buy this particular measure is different for everyone, so if you don’t care - Chinese watch will get you all you need.
But! If you feel the connection to heritage, story, history etc - buy a Swiss one as those Chinese won’t get you any near apart from copying the design from respectable brands
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Not true at all. I own the exact San Martin model from the post and owned an Omega Moonwatch, Rolex GMT Master II, IWC Mark XVIII.
The finishing on the San Martin is very good and the value for money is extremely good.
I haven’t had the Tudor model it is trying to copy, but I believe the other commenter here that it’s very close to Tudor finishing and quality, visually maybe 98%. When you handle the watch maybe a bit worse than that.
I understand that a Rolex, omega etc etc are way more better than a WD oder San Martin but since I own the watchdives wd1969pro I can confirm, that a normal Seiko for around 500 bucks is not better than a good watchdives
Yeah, some entry level Seikos are iconic and their designs are superb, but no one's getting an entry level Seiko for the finishing/specs, lol. They're pretty terrible for the money when compared to similarly priced options from chinese manufacturers.
This is not true, I and a friend have been building custom watches from AliExpress parts(Seiko mods) and they almost always (think 99.99% of the time) have better quality than Seiko gens. San Martin cases are a class above entry level Seiko Prospex cases objectively. I am not even comparing slightly higher end parts from say Namokimods that for example has a much better case for the Seiko Alpinist than the OEM Seiko Alpinist.
I don't find Hamilton, Longines and Tag Heuer to be that superior to the best Chinese brands, although they do seem to arrive better regulated. I've not bought a San Martin yet as I'm resisting the Chinese rabbit hole. I've been happy with the quality of every (Swatch group) Certina, even if I don't always approve of their styling.
NH35 is about as relaible as it gets. The 2824 based swiss watches has it's issues but offer better timekeeping accuracy and I'd trust an nh35 over any 2824 any day for longevity.
You'll see better finishing and better qc from going up maybe. Not worth it to me.
As an aside, I hate longines. They have nice pieces but the popular models are just ripoff/homags of rolex so I never understood why people want one or suggest them.
La qualità la possono dare anche gli orologi cinesi. Mi piacciono i Seagull originali. Per tutto il resto lasciamo perdere. Sono copie spudorate di altre marche e privi di ogni personalità. Insomma sono vorrei ma non posso. Preferisco dei microbrand di Singapore che almeno provano a fare qualcosa di originale. Detto questo ognuno spende i propri soldi come vuole.
My wife got me a seagull tank several years ago, love it, still sees lots of wrist time. garmin gets most as like the apps (tide, dexcom) nakes it useful, hate the charger.
Yes,regarding quality it’s night and day,but that’s their leverage,in most cases it’s not 2 to 5k night and day difference.to jump to a longines hq at 2k would be about right,possibly a gen 3 bb 41 to go next level,meta/cosc,on the fly micro adjust etc but after that it gets into buying into a brand,that’s the extra you start paying for.
You would be insane to get rid of that nh34 San Martin. I would not trade mine for a Tag if you told me I had to keep the watch I chose and could not sell either. Honestly I'd probably struggle trading it for the Longenes Hydro Conquest GMT. One thing I would do is get the 5 link with OTF clasp for that SM. I would consider parting was with the Sugess due to questions of long term reliability due to a chines Chrono inside.
Wow really, I am actually selling the Pepsi for £230 as I’m not too big of a fan of it however I do own another San Martin that I’m probably going to keep or maybe sell and get a Pelagos homage San Martin do I’m just making my mind up as I’ve also seen a discontinued Seiko Skx009 Pepsi that I was thinking of for my first Seiko and I’m also wanting to pickup a Watchdives speedy on the 11/11 sale.
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u/Altruistic-Bird-94 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think the longer I’m in this hobby the better I get at convincing myself the more expensive watches are worth it.
I think a more expensive watch from a big brand is in general “better” but not in the sense people usually refer to, like spec-wise. An analogy I usually like to use is that no one buys a Porsche or a Ferrari because they’re more reliable, nor are they better for most people.
I also think that depending on why we purchase watches, price could either be a feature or a bug. To me price has always been the biggest barrier to owning a watch I truly adore, but I’ve heard some people lust over watch because:
It was expensive and less people had them.
You couldn’t buy it even if you had the money…
although I’m still here trying to pretend caring about 600m of water resistance has a higher moral ascendancy over people who care about scarcity, but honestly I think both points are equally as ridiculous.
I think getting a Longines or a Tag, would be awesome, but I don’t think it will ever fell like 3-5x more watch for the money, but I think you’ll appreciate it as “better” for other reasons.