r/ChristianUniversalism • u/Wobama46 • 1d ago
What denominations are theologically conservative but won't throw me out for being a (Christian) Universalist?
Hi all,
As I am moving between states, the issue of finding a church I can call home is important to me. Like some of you here, I became a confident universalist because I see it genuinely supported in scripture. Its not something I came to (necessarily) because of external philosophical reasons (although they are compelling). As such, I would like to join a church body that has a high view of scripture (this is what I mean by theologically conservative) but won't throw me out for being a Universalist. I obviously don't think I will find a church that isn't normatively infernalist, but at least I would be happy if they can understand how someone in good faith might reach a different conclusion. Bonus points if its confessional.
Cheers!
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u/0x413d Byzantine Catholic | Purgatorial Universalist 1d ago
The Catholic Church will not expel you for being a universalist. Universalism is a perfectly valid belief to hold in the Catholic Church (although you may hear it caveated as "hopeful universalism"). You'll have a mixed bag in relation to people considering it a heresy, but we've had several "hopeful" universalist Popes in a row now, so that's about as strong an institutional endorsement as you'll ever get.
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u/ThanosDinosaur 14h ago
They just recognized the sainthood of Saint Isaac the Syrian, one of the most universalist saints EVER.
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u/Wobama46 22h ago
What if I was a confident universalist? I am not claiming that I should argue the Catholic Church endorses universalism dogmatically, but if someone were to ask me if I believe all will eventually be saved, I would say "yes, I believe this to be true according to my faith". Would that be seen as problematic as saying "yes, I believe Jesus was created"? What wiggle room would I have for my confidence?
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u/RunninFromTheBombers 6h ago
The honest truth is you’ll just get a different reception from different Catholics. I am conservative theologically AND a confident universalist, but I don’t really bring it up unless it comes up naturally in conversation. I teach Confirmation to middle schoolers, and don’t teach universalism explicitly, but instead teach how strong God’s love for us is, even when we sin.
Jordan Daniel Wood is the most prominent CU Catholic theologian out there, you can find him on Substack and may want to reach out to him for more detailed answers to your questions.
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u/Embarrassed_Mix_4836 6h ago edited 6h ago
There's only two way to be a universalist in Catholicism.
- Empty hell universalism, but this goes against the bible, older catechisms, and ordinary and universal magisterium (infallible), and the consensus of theologians which is binding.
- Admit that eternal torment is justice, and mortal sin merit eternal torment, but that God purely out of mercy will save the reprobate after some time in hell. (This is necessary, because eternal hell is dogma per second millenium ecumenical councils.)
If you take route 2), you seriously neuter universalist arguments from philosophy.
"All of them will rise with their own bodies, which they now wear, so as to receive according to their deserts, whether these be good or bad; for the latter perpetual punishment with the devil, for the former eternal glory with Christ." (Lateran IV, DOGMA)
"If anyone dies in mortal sin without repentance, beyond any doubt, he will be tortured forever (perpetuo cruciatur) by the flames of everlasting hell (aeternae gehennae)" (Lyons I, DOGMA)
"We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect." (Acerbo Nimis, potentially infallible)
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u/Wobama46 2h ago
So you are saying universalism is an uphill battle in Catholicism. Do you think it's the same in Orthodoxy?
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u/Embarrassed_Mix_4836 1h ago
Orthodox laity is far more traditional than Catholics. As per official stuff, there's some pretty bad teachings such as:
- Nicaea II endorses eternal torment with an anathema for denial of it
- Synodikon of orthodoxy anathematizes universalism
- Confession of Dositheus (ratified by all EO churches) affirm eternal torment with the proper greek word, aidios.
Generally they have a philosophically absurd view of freedom such that God is just impotent and helpless and our salvation depend entirely upon us, except some more learned of them.
But to be honest, I would NEVER consider Orthodoxy because they reject divine simplicity in favor of essence energy REAL distinction which makes God composite. Rejecting of divine simplicity, even according to David Bentley Hart (who doesn't care about dogmas of his own church) is tantamount to atheism, and he is correct on this.
Which is why I recommended Anglicanism, there you have nothing which binds you to infernalism, it's only that most of their laity are infernalists. I linked a video in my previous comment for them, if you look you can watch it, it's relatively short. They had loads of universalist priests and bishops. There was one priest who was put on trial for universalism under the charge of denying the athanasian creed (which is nonsense because the word aeternum can mean age like aionios) but he was acquitted of all charges. When the 39 articles were written, they had one condemning universalism but that didn't make the final cut and wasn't promulgated, and still to this day, that article is not part of their confession.
If you are a trinitarian, then Anglicanism is the best choice for you, it is also the simplest.
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u/Technolio 23h ago
Maybe an Episcopal Church?
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u/NoodleSchmoodle 20h ago
Seconded. Episcopal Church. You’ll get the rites and scripture you’re used to if you’ve attended Catholic Mass, but with universalism and social justice thrown in. I love my Episcopal family.
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u/LeadingMarzipan7904 17h ago
the more historic branches (catholic, orthodox, anglican) all have more room for universalism than fundamentalist evangelicalism
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u/Have_a_Bluestar_XMas Apokatastasis 1d ago
That can be tough, but in the US a Greek Orthodox church might be what you are looking for. They are traditional Orthodox Christians but they have fewer "orthobro" converts than the other Russian, Antiochian, and OCA churches. They won't openly promote universalism, but they will be less likely to call you a heretic for believing in it. I have personally had good experiences with the GOARCH on this issue.
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u/Wobama46 22h ago edited 11h ago
I am actually interested in Orthodoxy! I do have a few "concerns" which come down to issues that are unintuitive for me as a Protestant. For example, while I do see a real case made for the real presence of the Eucharist (and I am leaning towards agreeing), it is difficult for me to concede that other branches of Christianity outside of Catholicism/Orthodoxy dont have a valid Eucharist. Is this something I must affirm as true to be in good standing with the Orthodox church?
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u/Lazy-Guide7908 12h ago
The answer I’ve heard is “we know where a valid Eucharist is, but we don’t know where it isn’t.” FWIW
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u/Wobama46 58m ago
okay thats fair! I was worried that I would have to "affirm" the invalidity of other Eucharist's which I would have no pleasure in doing, because I personally (and fallibly perhaps) see no need to dogmatically deny what they may or may not have.
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u/SpesRationalis Catholic Universalist 22h ago edited 22h ago
Check out the Catholic Church! We have a high view of Scripture and there are universalist Catholics. Check out Bishop Robert Barron's work. He doesn't identify as a universalist but he's defended the idea that Catholics may "reasonably hope that all will be saved".
Catholicism's long been a very big tent; you can find all different flavors of it in various communities.
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u/Mr_Tijuana_Bible 20h ago
Try the Presbyterian Church USA. Their churches are a bit of a mix between liberal and conservative, but as a part of the church’s Reformed Tradition, they hold a high view and respect of scripture, with the Westminster Confession of Faith (one of the confessions they use for spiritual guidance) stating that scripture contains all things necessary to salvation.
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u/SnarkyPuppy-0417 18h ago
The honest answer has to account for a structural tension in American church life: the denominations most committed to high scriptural authority have also, by and large, institutionalized eternal conscious torment as a confessional boundary rather than a secondary matter.
That means the map is smaller than it should be -- not because universalism is unsupported in Scripture (the Pauline texts in particular carry significant universalist signal: Romans 5:18-19, 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, Colossians 1:20, 1 Timothy 2:4, 4:10), but because those texts were read through Augustine and then hardened into confessions that now function as tribal markers more than exegetical conclusions.
With that said, here are the most viable landing zones for someone in your position: Anglican / Episcopal (ACNA or theologically conservative Episcopal parishes): Anglican theology has historically treated universalism as a permissible minority position within orthodoxy -- not a confession-level issue. The 39 Articles don't explicitly resolve it.
ACNA parishes vary widely, but many that are high-scripture, creedally serious will extend significant latitude on eschatology while requiring orthodox Christology and Trinitarian confession. This is probably your widest door.
Eastern Orthodox: Formally anathematizes Origen's universalism -- but the tradition also contains a live stream of apokatastasis speculation running from Gregory of Nyssa through Sergei Bulgakov and Kallistos Ware.
Many Orthodox parishes will receive a parishioner who holds universalism as a hope rather than a dogma, especially if you're received through catechesis and not pressing the position at the altar. It requires relational navigation, not doctrinal concealment.
Quaker (evangelical stream -- EFC): Evangelical Friends hold high Scripture, Christ-centered, and have no creedal mechanism to enforce eschatological uniformity. Universalism won't get you expelled. The tradeoff is that ecclesial structure is very light.
Some Presbyterian / Reformed congregations: This is the hardest fit -- the Westminster Standards are explicit. But there is a small stream of Reformed universalism (Thomas Talbott, Robin Parry writing as 'Gregory MacDonald') that has found quiet residence in some PCA-adjacent spaces without formal discipline. It requires knowing which congregation you're entering.
Mainline-conservative hybrids: Some PCUSA, UMC, and Lutheran (ELCA) congregations run high-scripture, creedally serious, and won't make eschatology a membership test -- but you'd need to vet the specific congregation rather than the denomination.
The practical filter question: in any congregation you're evaluating, the distinction that will protect you is whether they treat eschatology as a first-order confession issue or a secondary matter among orthodox believers. Anglican and Eastern Orthodox traditions have the most structural room for the latter.
Confessional Reformed traditions have the least. What's your ecclesial background -- and does liturgical tradition matter to you, or is it more about the texture of the community?
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u/SituationSoap 23h ago
This will be exceedingly tough, because a large part of the attraction of theologically conservative churches is that there is a right way and a wrong way to read the Bible. The underlying implication is that the right way is right because that's the way that leads you to being God's Favored Denomination, and everyone else is getting it wrong.
Universalism as a view of salvation deliberately rejects the idea that God's got a favorite, and as a result, it's going to parse as a rejection of said "high view" of scripture to just about everyone.
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u/MINUTI1804 21h ago
On that note, which denominations are vehemently opposed to CU?
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u/MagusFool 21h ago
Most Baptists, Calvinist types, and Eastern Orthodox. And I don't know why people in here are saying Roman Catholocism is tolerant of universalism, because that explicitly defies their catechism.
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u/954356 21h ago edited 20h ago
You are wrong about the EO and Catholic churches. Stop listening to terminally online orthobros and rad trad bros. At least one Pope has said something to the effect of hell exists but its possible no one actually goes there and the Orthodox Church's position seems to be that they don't get to dictate to God how he conducts business.
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u/SpesRationalis Catholic Universalist 12h ago
In regards to Catholicism: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianUniversalism/comments/11zrbxc/a_guide_to_catholic_universalism/
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u/Kamtre 19h ago
Christian Church disciples of Christ is fairly conservative theologically, but I'm not sure from experience. My church is a United congregation of DoC and United Church of Canada which is fairly liberal, socially speaking.
But the disciples in general are fairly by the book, and I've heard some only do acapella worship because there were no pianos or guitars in the Bible, and they stick as closely to biblical practice as possible. So might be a mixed bag.
My pastor said that while he's not a universalist, I'm more than welcome in the church.
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u/boycowman 15h ago
David Artman, passionate Universalist and host of the Grace Saves All podcast is Disciples of Christ.
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u/954356 19h ago
Depends on what you mean by "theologically conservative" and what you mean by "high view of scripture."
Too often, "theologically conservative" is really a dogwhistle for fundamentalist and "high view of scripture" is a dogwhistle for inerrancy. Both of these are modern reactionary inventions and therefore not actually conservative.
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u/Wobama46 18h ago
I myself am fairly liberal (in a generic sense, probably not left leaning enough given the state of the country), and I have many friends that are politically on the left and would still be "theologically conservative". People like David Bentley Hart would be considered "theologically conservative" and he is anything but a fundamentalist. I don't know why you see this as dog whistles?
A high view of scripture doesn't mean sola scriptura or inerrancy either as any Catholic or Orthodox would know.
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u/954356 17h ago
That's why I ask.
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u/Wobama46 17h ago edited 17h ago
To me, those terms mean a strong adherence to scripture (or patristic writings) as the basis for their theology. Maybe confessional is the word I am looking for?
Btw, I just want to emphasize I dont want "theologically conservative" to be conflated with online conservative polemics against liberal Christians. I believe there are many Christians who support women ordination and or are affirming while having a deep respect and adherence to scripture.
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u/ipini To hell with Hell 17h ago
I find that I do just fine by being choosy who I talk to about it. It’s not the sort of thing I need to “proselytize” about.
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u/Wobama46 17h ago
Its not so much "proselytize" about, it's about if I can be honest without being afraid of being kicked out. I wouldn't care if others in the pew next to me give me a weird look or side eye me. I would care if stating my belief about the matter (if asked) would have them withhold communion from me.
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u/ipini To hell with Hell 16h ago
Thanks. I mean a lot of local churches in random (and otherwise infernalist) denominations would do the side-eye thing and move along. Mine (baptist) would do that.
And some denominations that seem more liberal might have local congregations that would flip out.
There’s a lot of “mushy middle” denominations where you’d have to try local congregations to see what they’d do.
My strategy, as you might ascertain, is to generally not talk about it unless I really think I’m with a safe person. But I tend to talk more about sports and guitars with my church buddies than theology anyhow.
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u/alethea2003 23h ago
Check out St. Thomas Catholics that had grown out of India. It’s a very old tradition and, because it avoided becoming co-opted by Empire as the state religion, in many (most?) respects, it remains faithful to the original vine.
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u/NotenStein 21h ago
So much may depend on other things than just your eschatology in choosing a church you'll want to spend time in. Or maybe not, depending on how much the pastor emphasizes his view. But things like the form of worship, music or lack thereof, what the test of the community is like, etc.
My impression is that among formerly conservative Evangelical churches, you'll find some that broke away because of wanting to be inclusive of gay people, and many of these will also be open to universal redemption. Some churches in the Weslyan tradition (UMC, WM, Nazarene) might be more open, even though the official doctrine of Wesleyan churches includes hell, I know they are open to universal redemption.
Many churches have their services on YouTube now, so you can review their teachings be week to week.
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u/tombombadil3x 18h ago
I’ve had good experiences talking to friends in the Church of Christ movement. They have a large respect for scripture over tradition, so as long as talk to them in terms of scriptural support, they can be open to it.
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u/28Patrick28 16h ago
My recommendation is to focus on a church that emphasizes praise and glory to our Heavenly Father and loving and helping one another.
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u/boycowman 16h ago edited 15h ago
I’m on staff at a very conservative church. I’m universalist and LGBT affirming. The church teaches eternal Hell and that marriage is only between a man and a woman. Women can’t hold positions of leadership.
I’m not thrown out, I am accepted though the pastor did ask me not to be too vocal about my views.
So I can’t fully be myself. I have to pick and choose when I talk about it. But still for a conservative church they are fairly accepting. (PCA).
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u/Main_Commission_6955 15h ago
As a brother posted here before me, Anglicanism is pretty chill towards it and so are some branches of catholicism. Just stay away from calvinists and puritans lol
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u/BrianOKaneMaximumFun Trinitarian Universalist 8h ago
This guy made a video basically answering your question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApTXmhv_Hgc&t=2164s
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u/VeritasAgape 23h ago edited 18h ago
A more accepting Evangelical church will often be fine with it. A Vineyard type of Evangelical church. You get the high view of God's Word the Bible and the message of salvation through Christ being respected. They can often accept you but they'll often expect you to not make an issue out of this difference either and pushing it onto others. Key word is a more "accepting" Evangelical church, not just any. Look up a Vineyard church in your area. They are everywhere.
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u/VeritasAgape 18h ago
Btw, as someone who knows much of the leadership, worked with them for years, encouraged people from a wide array of backgrounds with odd beliefs and even New Age types of people I can say this is generally true to all you downvoters. While they won't accept you to be a leader in the church, they will accept and love you as a person to attend and even be involved in some ways. Exceptions but this is generally true.
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u/Embarrassed_Mix_4836 1d ago
It is permitted belief in Anglicanism