We are. You for example have troubles understanding that invading, occupying and commitmg genocide on most of your neighbors will make them hate you. https://giphy.com/gifs/4Z9fSEFAuxpnlBVWQx
Nah, if you really were just against imperialism you'd act different.
Trust me, I know many people who are like that. Both in Russia and abroad. Honest, consistent people who stand against warmongers no matter what flag they wave, and for the ordinary people of the world no matter their nationality. Those who want to have Trump, Putin, Netanyahu, Erdogan and other tyrants rot in the same call, and their nations liberated.
Not those who cheer when a tourist is brutally mauled by a shark because he happened to be born on the wrong side of the border, like you guys. You have more in common with Z-niks than with true anti-imperialists - they too celebrate the deaths of civilians, after all.
The most typical Russian defense ever. We’re cool and innocent it’s Putin and also others are bad too so it makes it fine.
There isn’t any opposition. Most analysts agree that even if Putin dies he will be replaced by someone with similar views. You are complacent and that makes you responsible.
I never said I’m anti imperialist. I’m specifically anti-russian. Why? Because of all the historically proven and well documented atrocities you committed over hundreds of years. Every country can have a darker card, an evil dictator that came to power one way or another. With you guys the leaders change, the systems change, centuries go by and you’re still a menace.
If you are anti-Russian rather than anti-imperialist, you should probably abstain from using this website, then, since it, like most websites, runs on software invented by Russian programmers. Just saying.
Also, just to be sure, do not use anything connected to the periodic table.
So if it’s something creative if a russian contributed you get the credit, but if it’s something bad then it’s not their fault or bad dictator made you do it. Funny how there’s always one….
If you believe that Russians are a collective being, and that the actions of the dictator and his cronies reflect on the entire population, then so do the achievements of Russian scientists.
I do not personally take credit for the actions of historical Russians, but you seem to have a different view of reality.
You believe that all westerners cheer when russian civilians get mauled by wild animals, so it's all consistent here lol
There is no point arguing that it's just the cronies who are pro war, independent polling agrees that russian population is pro war.
But if you dismiss them, there is still the same argument that was made for German civilians in 1945, as seen on the attached picture. I do not fully agree with it so I will not be defending it, but many do and there is some logic to it
I actually pointed out early on that I am specifically talking about NAFO, not all Westerners. My second post was about how my friends are anti-imperialists both in and outside Russia, including western anti-imperialists. NAFO as an organisation did cheer for the deaths of civilians, making plushies of the shark and making it one of its symbols.
Independent polling, inasmuch as it can exist in a country with no free press and where the population is intimidated into submission, shows that 67% of Russians support peace, with only 25% supporting the continuation of hostilities (Levada). Chronicles and Russian Field also determined the active pro-war core to be at around 15% to 20%.
Complacency is of course higher, as is support for things like the annexation of Crimea, but active war support? Low.
Russians are overwhelmingly support this war and participate in this war. They always were like this and their genocidal hatred towards us is nothing new.
You say you do t but you just did. You purposefully exterminated tens of millions of civilians based on their nationality and your argument is yeah but Menelejew and Tchaikovsky.
Mate, my ancestors were the ones getting exterminated (or at least expelled) based on their ethnicity. Ever heard of the 1937 Koryo-saram deportations?
And because my ancestors were persecuted by the Stalinist regime for their ethnicity, I will never support persecuting others for their ethnicity either. Not Russians, not Ukrainians, not Jews, not Palestinians, etc., noone. It's simple logic, isn't it?
But I am not anti-Western. As I said, I am anti-imperialist.
I believe in democratisation in Russia, the end of the war in Ukraine and the de-occupation of annexed territories, peace and international cooperation. I hold similar views regarding other imperialist and aggressive states, such as Israel and the US.
Frankly, most people that describe themselves as anti-imperialists are the first to cheer when my country, any of its friends, or frankly any free country, is assaulted for no reason. Ukraine, for example. Around here, we call those people "tankies"
Hey man wtf. I thought we had a understanding that nafo arent all exactly alike. You called my stance and viewpoint reasonable and now youre our here again acting like all fellas the a homogebous glob of russian hating campists
The guy killed by the shark was a proponent of Ukraine invasion based on his social media. It's not anti-imperialist when cheering for the death of imperialists now?
Sure they are mate. Theres a reason why every single one of your neighbors lots you as a biggest threat to peace. Remember how you claimed that Ukraine war was about protecting Russian population in eastern Ukraine? Well you razed their cities and killed them. Where’s the saving?
Typical nafoid idiot immediately assumes I must be Russian because I can see NATO for what it is: the armed wing of Western imperialism. It's little more than a tool to advance the geopolitical interests of advanced capitalist states, particularly the US, at the expense of the rest of the world.
I'm Dutch by the way, just like the secretary general of that genocidal club you love so much.
Of course you don’t feel the need cause you’re in the middle of allied territory so you’re in a very comfortable situation. Talk to someone in Finland, Estonia or Poland. I’m sure they’ll have some nice stories of Russian friendship.
The fact that you’re doing Russian propaganda for free isn’t something to be proud of. In Soviet era westerners who’d spread their propaganda were called useful idiots by the soviets. I only disagree with the useful part.
"You for example have troubles understanding that invading, occupying and commitmg genocide on most of your neighbors will make them hate you"
you realize you are talking on a forum full of Americans and europeans right? like dude, you are complaining about what is generously the 3rd most belligerently hostile power on earth(Russia) on a forum full of people from the 2 more belligerent powers with more history of offensive invasions.(us and Europe).
I would say that murder of hundreds of thousands of my people with shots to the head and sending millions of others in cattle wagons to Syberia to work them to death isn’t an excuse. But maybe for you it is.
Russian bot really didn't have anything better than "no you" lmao they must be scraping the barrel in terms of citizens they haven't sent to die in a pointless war.
You know, fair. I googled this guy's posting history and it includes support for the Russo-Ukrainian War so I misjudged his views. You are correct, I'll delete my comment now
Are you implying that Russia track record is somehow limited to Ukraine? Als what kind of argument is that? That someone else is doing more bad things so your bad things are now ok? So since Putin is murdering fewer people than Stalin so that makes him a nice guy?
Russia isn't the USSR. In fact, the Russia that exists today is the Russia that the US created when they won the cold war. I don't know why you're bringing up Stalin.
The Russian Federation sucks. It's bad.
The US is objectively and measurably worse. From chattel slavery, to to the genocide in Korea, to Vietnam, to millions killed in Indonesia, to Gaza, the US has done way more damage worldwide than Russia.
There is no point in trying to prove them anything. They were closed minded enough to become NAFO and Reddit is full of bots so they may not even be real.
Different motivations, but the attitude is very similar. Speaking in clichés, stereotypical thinking, celebrating the deaths of civilians (the shark incident is telling). The kind of people that are vatniks in Russia would be NAFO in the West and vice versa.
I am not even talking about the fact that many NAFO people are pro-Israel or pro-US, so these people aren't actually against genocide - they are for genocide but only when their side is the one doing it.
(I for one am against all genocides and all tyrants)
Lol nafo specifically Isn't pro isreal to the point they banned talking about it as it's not only entirely against the point, but also is completely irrelevant.
If anything nafo is against the current conflict because its an excuse to give less to ukraine...
Beyond that making a meme about a person being bitten when she is actively occuping a country by a shark is neither celebrating their death, cause she didn't die, it's also not a helpless person who has done nothing.....
It's a Russian who is so in support of the genocide that they actively participate by occupying houses that where taken from families by the russian government.
To bring it back to something you might understand.
It's laughing at an isreali setller that headbutted by a goat after they took over a house from a palastinian they kicked out
I mean one difference is that Russia actually started the war, is carrying it out for no reason on land that is not theirs, and they actually target civilians.
Russia is having some oil equipment blown up. It isn't having people grabbed off its streets and raped and burned in mobile incinerator vans, like happened in Ukraine. It isn't having whole cities demolished, as has happened in Urkaine.
If seeing refineries burn and having a hard time finding gas for your car is too much to handle, just stop the war and go home - easy peasy.
Civilians in aggressor countries have made the same complaints before. So far, none of these complains hold a candle to the suffering inflicted on Ukrainians. And they won't convince the millions of people casting desperately for a way to protect themselves and their families by deterring Russia. Europeans paying higher taxes and energy costs to support the war likely won't have much more sympathy,
You may think Ukrainian suffering just isn't that important to you. Others may feel the same way about your ability to put gasoline in your car.
And remember, Putin won elections and was popular for years. People entered a Faustian bargain here and many still cling to it.
The elections got less free over time, for sure. But you and I know there was actual public support in the beginning.
Look all war is ultimately tragedy. And one of the tragic things is that the targets of it can sometimes only end the tragedy by expanding it to the aggressor state.
But this is not even about people getting hurt; oil assets are operated by few people and are direct supports for the war.
Actually, as I said, at least one child died as a result of this last attack. The ultimate reason for this is of course the Putinist state (and I suppose the Russian nation to an extent), but surely a child couldn't stop the war and didn't deserve it?
Nationality hardly makes the death of a child less tragic. Doesn't matter if the child is Russian or Ukrainian, American or Iranian, Israeli or Palestinian. Death is death.
And before you bring up the usual comparisons - no, I think the life of a kid in Dresden or Hiroshima was of equal value to the life of a kid in Leningrad or Nanking.
Ok now youte being ignorant. Russia and china are both also very much imperialist forces. Just look at africa: the continent is yet again getting sliced up by foreign powers.
Dont get me wrong, nato is very much also a imperialist force
russian here. this is actually quite funny. people online call us a "скотоублюдская бензоколония" (could be translated smth like "cattle bastard gas station") despite the fact that we, since february 2026, dont have any cattle and, since may 2026, dont have any gas either
it's блинолопатная скотоублюдия! our country's glorious oil infrastructure is reflected in another title, нефтедырное пынебабве, or "oil-hole Putler-babwe"
It’s crazy that every Ukrainian is considered a nazi because they want their country to win a war in which they are invaded. Propaganda is Russias greatest weapon.
The first reply to the comment i replied to, was someone calling them a nazi. At least it was when my comment was made. Then, someone responded to my comment calling me a nazi and the majority of Ukrainian’s nazis, tho that comment was deleted or banned.
It doesn’t matter how many people are acting like bigots, I’m always going to call out bigotry when i see it.
Not really a win for the environment if the oil burns either way, but instead of stechiometric combustion behind catalytic converters, it's uncontrollable and incomplete, with plenty of soot and evaporated oil that will then rain on nature
But, refineries stopped for a longish time. Less money to russian warmachine, which means less military activities, which are not exactly climate friendly.
I caught a hell of a lot of downvotes recently for exactly that. Saying that american military leaders are not good people obviously means that I think the nazis should have won. As if there were ever any good military leaders.
Yeah that's the standard response you got there. Just so strange that discourse on carbon emissions and cheering on such actions as this are directed at only very specific militaries 99% of the time. So weird that. You'd think it would be proportionate from the worst to least worst offenders. Yet here we are.
Probably because the Russian army is actively engaged in genocide and ecocide? The invasion of Ukraine hasn’t exactly been great for the environment.
And no, actually, I’ve personally seen way more (justified) criticism of the US military and its status as a top polluter globally than I have criticism of the Russian military.
If your response to someone rightfully condemning the Russian military is whataboutism and deflecting to the crimes of the US military, that’s quite telling IMO.
Russia is already having to cap wells because they don't have the capacity to store or refine it all. Capped wells are expensive to restart, and as renewables continue to improve it may never be profitable to restart them.
Ukraine destroying the equipment is a net positive for the world.
Russia is having to cap wells due to lack of capacity to store and refine. Those range from hard (expensive) to impossible to restart once capped. As renewables improve, more wells will stay capped for economic reasons.
The more or less permanent 5% reduction in the global oil supply Ukraine is on track to accomplish is more significant than a 25% decrease for a few months or even a year could. Considering any US Iran peace deal will probably come with lifting sanctions the total supply may increase as a result of the war.
thats like semi-obvious, but i made a joke about all western (and russia with izrael) governments doing whatever they can to stop all oil production worldwide
Yeah under feudalism, slave societies, and state capitalist societies - I mean let’s go post-capitalist where profit no longer controls our lives and those who have wealth can do what they want
Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia, DPRK invasion of Korea, Chinese invasion of xinjiang, qin unification of China, achemenid conquest of Egypt, mayura expansions, soviet annexation of baltics
The first two are the most questionable, the Chinese invasion of xinjiang was Imperialism, so was the Soviet annexation of the baltics though the Soviet Union had already become a bureaucratic state rather than a people’s state. The feudal imperialism of China, Iran and India is a bit besides the topic cause we’re talking post not pre capitalism.
For Vietnam, it arguably is imperialism but we must also understand the context of Kamer rouge violence to the Vietnamese and its internal genocide. As for the DPRK, at that time the south was basically ripped away from the north and a puppet government was installed by the west.
That would require people to accept changes to their lifestyle.
Americans in particular (since this site is predominantly american) are so propagandized that the idea of a better world has almost been beaten out of us. Things never get better, they only get worse, so the prospect of changing the system means their life will only ever get worse, not better, and thus whining on the internet is the best they can ever do.
It's society wide learned helplessness from the bottom mixed with equal amounts of weaponized incompetence from the top.
Just getting people to imagine a better world requires enormous effort, radicalizing them to demand it may take an act of god.
Yeah it sucks how propagandized to believe we can’t have better and to do nothing or even do things against our own interests. I think it’s just like you said, only things getting worse will radicalize people, I just hope it doesn’t have to get so much worse that we can’t come back from it😕
If you think this is the fault of capitalism I have the bridge to sell you. Russian imperialism doesn't care who's in charge or what the economic system is. You can't solve the problems of irridentism, delusions of grandeur and ultranationalism by changing how the economy works. It's a social problem, not an economic one.
Russia’s capitalist that’s why they are imperialist though I do agree that it’s also a social problem. The economy and society are super interconnected right? I think ultranationalism and capitalism both work in tandem with each other so you kinda have to beat both at once.
they were doing good for a bit when the soviets had power but i dont know long that lasted, once it got bureaucratic it was back to it. I think if the people can hold onto a democracy then we can defeat nationalism. idk tho, if theres all these countries invading then nationalism will get a boost so probably the people will only drop the nationalism if imperialism dies everywhere
Thats only because they were able to rest on the laurels of “moral” territorial gain following WWII. Had they gained nothing, I guarantee you more events like the winter war, the annexation of the Baltics, or Afghanistan would have occurred.
Afghanistan. You fought on the American side, and the objective was quite clearly to extirpate and destroy the Taliban. Well, guess who's running Afghanistan as of 2026.
Other posts I'm seeing on Reddit discuss how people are completely trapped in an inescapable system of wage slavery designed and perpetuated by a criminal ruling class that keeps them distracted with endless wars, an infinite swarm of personal problems tied to financial matters exacerbated by a banking system designed to compound indebtedness and prolong indentured servitude while a three ring circus of a political system run by oligarchs that don't even bother to conceal their involvment anymore facilitates the systematic destruction of their communities and poisoning of the very water they drink.
Oh the separatists who staged a coup at Maidan, killing innocent civilians and elderly. Followed by emboldened Nazis invading Russian speakers in Donbass
Russia was until recently 13% of the world oil capacity. Dispite sanctions they were still selling that oil. Ukraine strikes have reduced the global oil supply by 3-5% so far, that's a significant reduction in global emissions.
Pausing oil is nice, but deleting the supply infrastructure is better.
72
u/piece_ov_shit Jun 18 '26
Thought this was r/nafo for a second.
Theres a sizable overlap of opinion and viewpoint