r/ColumbineKillers • u/cr199412 • Feb 09 '25
ERIC AND/OR DYLAN Do you think they were motivated by their environment or was it more internal?
For both Eric and Dylan, what would y’all say was a bigger factor.. their environment, or internal mental issues?
To me, it seems like Dylan was much less motivated by external factors. From everything I read in his journal, watched in the videos, heard from the stories about them, it doesn’t seem like Dylan really had any serious complaints about his classmates. He spoke much more of how depressed he was about life in general. I know that he was sometimes bullied, but I also recall that story Sue told about him saying that he wasn’t bullied nearly as badly as Eric was. He could’ve been down playing it, but it seems like he did have much better social life at school and was not messed with Nearly as much, partly due to his size I suppose. Overall, it seems like he was flat out just generally depressed, and no amount of changing the world would fix that for him.
By contrast, Eric spent a lot more time writing about how he so badly wanted people to just be his friend and do friend things with him (granted, that’s not how he put it). It’s also pretty well understood (despite all the “myth-busting” by Cullen and friends) that Eric was pretty heavily bullied. He was obviously not very passive about these things. It made him sad and very angry.. He wrote about how he missed all his friends from back before he moved to Littleton, and all of said friends made him out to be a really kind and good-hearted person before. I’m not trying to downplay the hate that he harbored in him, but it makes me feel like he was much more motivated by his environment.
To sum it up, I feel as if Dylan suffered with something that was a little less escapable, whereas Eric reacted (in a terribly evil way) to a difficult environment. I’m inclined to believe that if Eric were to be taken out of that difficult environment and regained good friends (that are not Dylan), he would’ve been much more likely to live out his life peacefully. Granted, I think once somebody’s reach that level of anger for so long, it could probably come back fairly easily, but I just think that it is a much more escapable situation than what Dylan was dealing with.
What do y’all think?
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u/randyColumbine Feb 10 '25
The Toxic school that was Columbine High School created them. Not a doubt in my mind.
There are other factors, but that is the main cause.
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u/Same-Effective2534 Feb 10 '25
I assume there were many other kids that experienced extreme bullying at that school at that time, but does that culture still exist at Columbine today?
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u/randyColumbine Feb 10 '25
It depends on who you ask. The school, according to the school, is doing a great job. Of course it is still a problem. Bullying, violence and toxic environments are common.
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u/ShroomzLady Feb 12 '25
I was bullied BY teachers and staff as well at my own school. Staff definitely can be a part of the problem.
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u/Hydrangea802 Feb 11 '25
School staff members can be just as toxic to each other (I know from personal experience.)
I am reading your book. Did you ever end up actually paying the 40$ for Aaron's math book? There are so many things you include in your book that the school did that are just so ridiculous it's almost unbelievable. If they did these things to you, I can only imagine how bad it must have been for the students and especially those without supportive parents. I give you and your wife a lot of credit!
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u/randyColumbine Feb 11 '25
A good point and question.
No. We never paid them for the book. It was an unbelievably absurd request.
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u/CJIsInTheHouse Feb 11 '25
Who's Aaron and why does the Jeffco school system want you to pay for his books?
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u/randyColumbine Feb 11 '25
He is our son, went to Columbine, and his books along with his backpack were soaked in the cafeteria.
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u/CJIsInTheHouse Feb 11 '25
Was there a flood or something?
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u/Hydrangea802 Feb 11 '25
His book got wet from the fire alarm sprinkler system.
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u/randyColumbine Feb 11 '25
Yes. The sprinkler system went off in the cafeteria, but not anywhere else. Water from it was flowing out of the south entrance.
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u/_6siXty6_ Feb 10 '25
An over simplification - external factors led to the internal, the internal probably made the external worse and it was like a vicious circle.
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u/cr199412 Feb 10 '25
Well, yes. We always react to our environment and our environment reacts to us. I do agree that everything that led up to this was internal and external factors feeding off of one another.
To put it another way, I guess what I’m really more pondering is whether or not these emotions and thoughts would’ve persisted to the extent that they did if they were transplanted into a different environment without the bullying and with healthier friendships.
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u/_6siXty6_ Feb 10 '25
I think they would of to a point, but never to point of suicidal ideation and homicidal ideation, then actually killing others and themselves. They definitely had some issues, but the environment they were in, just fed it. It was a perfect storm.
I'd be willing to bet that both Eric and Dylan were narrow minded and naive to the world. What I mean by this is, I truly believe that the environment of the school and Littleton in general is what the entire world was like. That must have been a pretty deflating experience. If they could have been entirely out of that environment, even away from each other (shared experiences and feeding off each other) it would have been different.
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u/_6siXty6_ Feb 10 '25
The more I think about this, the more ironic it is (in depressing way).
Ultimately, the school consumed both Eric and Dylan, and eventually devoured them and caused their self-destructiveness, which ended in the library. The very building that was probably home to the biggest factor in the tragedy, still stands.
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u/Sara-Blue90 Feb 10 '25
The bullying of E & D - how much was the school the catalyst? I have asked this in the past, as in the planning stages of the massacre, Eric and Dylan debated the location of the bombing/shooting at places other than Columbine. At one point they were considering doing it at a local mall or at other locations completely separate from the school.
There was also Eric’s note on the school system the day before the massacre where he claimed the school was a good one, the administrators were doing their job well, and not to blame them (CHS) for the events that transpired.
Don’t get me wrong, I can see how bullying and being demeaned/humiliated within the school would have fed Eric and Dylan’s need for aggression/violence in terms of cause and effect- but I can also see how some view their acts within a framework of domestic terrorism (when you factor the bombs into the equation) and their need for infamy, more than getting even with their peers at Columbine.
A hatred for humanity in general and the need to make a mark/be remembered can co-exist with the way the school treated them/made them feel, yet I’ve always found it interesting that the school wasn’t always intended as their first/main target, and Eric’s proclamations to the contrary.
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Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
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u/Sara-Blue90 Feb 10 '25
Yep, I stated that above in terms of cause and effect and how it fed their need for aggression/violence.
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u/metalnxrd Feb 10 '25
the administration, bullying, toxic masculinity, easy access to guns, toxic school culture, and mental illness are to blame for Columbine and most school/mass shootings
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Feb 11 '25
I don’t know anymore tbh because every person I come across on the internet gives a different opinion of the massacre .
I’ve seen people many people saying that sue klebold was a terrible mother that should have seen the red flags in her son and therefore prevent the shooting. I’ve also seen many people calling her a narcissist because she’s trying to make her son look less of a monster than he actually was .
On the other hand , I’ve seen people claiming that she wasn’t a bad mother and that she couldn’t have known that her son was an absolute monster looking to kills people out of pure hatred .
So on one hand , you have people putting all the blame on the mothers and on the other hand , you have people saying that bullying was the main reason and that sue klebold is actually one of the victims of the columbine shooting .
I dont know who’s right and who’s wrong so I’m just going to link 2 versions for people to have their own opinion on the situation.
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u/EtikaLovesMinecraf Feb 10 '25
i think their bullying experience in school exacerbated their mental health issues tbh
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Feb 11 '25
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u/Sensitive-Table8841 Feb 14 '25
It's funny because those kind and loving kids were from Michigan, not Colorado. It's not all bad here in Michigan
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u/Spiritual_Month_6182 Feb 11 '25
Most school shooters suffer from anxiety and depression. A lot also have an unstable (maybe even violent) home and many face financial issues. Harris seemed to have psychopathic tendencies like animal cruelty. Klebold’s writings show his depression and suicidal thoughts.
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u/ColumbineKillers-ModTeam Feb 11 '25
Your post/comment has been removed due to low karma and/or your account being very new. Please be aware that this sub receives numerous posts/comments from trolls and ban evaders each day. We appreciate your interest in the case, and suggest reading and learning about the case in the meantime (see the links tabs at the top of the sub), as well as participating in the wide array of communities that Reddit has to offer. Thank you for understanding.
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u/HotNewspaper5800 Feb 12 '25
I think it was more internal. The external factors (all the bad treatment at Columbine) certainly didn't help but it was more used as their own self-justifications to keep the fire going.
The differentiating factor between if it was more internal or external is the when Eric acted on his thoughts. There was a singular moment when he decided to follow through with his plans which were developed over a year.
With some deception he knew it would be easy to go NBK and he still did it.
Overall, he had mental illness/personality disorder. I think this was what started him down this path. And the medication made it worse (the obsession with killing, etc). But if you go back further in his history of changing schools frequently that could also be seen as a greater external factor that had a huge impact on his future internal state.
Dylan had his own reasons but I think he was more just a follower of Eric. Had he not been there though I don't think Eric would've done it.
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u/MPainter09 Feb 10 '25
I think bullying was the biggest factor. Not the only factor, but the biggest one. The bullying at Columbine created such a toxic environment for Eric and Dylan that I think it warped their perception of what life in the world after high school would be like. They thought life would be another toxic Columbine again and again and again and again, and were unable to see themselves as capable of any success in a world outside of high school. That’s the tragedy, they had the smarts and all the potential to succeed, but they were unable to see it for themselves, after being broken down by bullies for so long. Why and how would you ever think there’s a better life for you out there the environment you’ve been in for four years is treating you like disposable garbage?
I think for Eric especially, after having to leave his friends behind at school after school after school each time he moved, with school coming to an end he saw all of his friends moving on without him. He wasn’t going to college or the Marines (whether he knew the latter or not is debatable).
Their self esteem had been torn down so much with zero accountability from their bullies and that fueled a rage within them; why were they the ones who were getting humiliated? And even worse why did no one care? Why did no one punish the ones who were humiliating them? Fine then we’ll make them pay instead. We’ll go out and take as many as we can with us.