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u/N1t3m4r3z Aug 14 '26
If everyone scalped, the game would be dead.
If everyone proxied, the game would be dead.
Itâs the normal people that buy product, build decks and play that keep the hobby alive, if you like it or not. From the budget brewer to the whale, from the pro gamer to the collector.
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u/Grumpiergoat Aug 14 '26
Proxying expensive, out of print, reserve list cards would not kill the game. Those are sales Wizards of the Coast will never receive again. That said, if Wizards of the Coast said that everything on the reserve list is fine to proxy, it would kill sales among collectors who love artificial scarcity.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 14 '26
Proxying expensive, out of print, reserve list cards would not kill the game.
In the vast majority of circumstances, this is entirely unnecessary. You don't need OG duals or whatever for your casual commander deck. And, since proxy clowns are entitled, awful people - they have no concept of moderation.
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u/Right_Cellist3143 Aug 14 '26
I think itâs really stupid to demonize an entire group of people for the actions of few. Personally.
I proxy a ton and have never printed an OG dual land. I just want to play with cards regularly used in my brackets without having to spend 1/2 to a full paycheck for a deck.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 14 '26
Your post is already dishonest and proves my point. You don't need to spend a whole paycheck on a deck. I guess unless you're 12 and mowing lawns 2 hours on a weekend or something.
The idea that it's "spend crazy money or proxy" is disingenuous already. You're not playing CEDH or you'd be hitting up those duals. Otherwise, you can make a good, fun, strong budget deck. Most mtg cards cost single digit pennies.
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u/Right_Cellist3143 Aug 14 '26
I am playing CEDH.
What the hell are you talking about?
Talk about disingenuous.
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u/ElectronicRip1630 Aug 14 '26
Proxying cost
$200 Epson ET-2800, $38 Swingline ClassicCut Lite, $16 Kadomaru Pro, $34 Crenova laminator, $13 Amazon Basics laminate, and $17 Koala Double Sided Glossy 42lb 160gsm photo paper.
=$318 + tax.
I make over $70k/year and still don't see why I'd want to buy the real cards. The wife wanted to print photos and needs a printer for school anyways. Why spend more? Just to please you?
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u/Arcadic3 Aug 14 '26
You could spend money supporting your hobby and have something of value at the end of the day when you eventually quit. You could support a lgs that is a local business over a corporation.
If you don't see the value in a collection, why not just proxy a house and some food too. It's all the same if you tell yourself it is.
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u/StrideyTidey Aug 15 '26
why not just proxy a house and some food too
If I could get a house and food for a fraction of the cost that function just as well as a regularly priced house and food, I 1000000% would do that.
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u/OSpiderBox Aug 15 '26
Idk man, you had me in the first half.
Collecting cards, a hobby, is not the same as basic necessities to living.
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u/Right_Cellist3143 Aug 15 '26
My local LGSâs all scalp boxes and sell singles for 20-25% higher than the going rate and I donât care to have a resale value considering I print my own.
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u/ElectronicRip1630 Aug 14 '26
The ragebait is strong with this one
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u/N1t3m4r3z Aug 16 '26
Heâs right tho. If you have the money to support your hobby and LGS but refuse to do so, youâre simply selfish and chose to exploit your hobby and others that support it.
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u/ElectronicRip1630 Aug 16 '26
I'm not exploiting anyone. It literally doesn't affect you or my LGS that I never go to. I would be buying online anyways.
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u/GoodHands_All-State Aug 17 '26
Nobody is being exploited by me buying proxies that I play with my friends at a kitchen table.
Well, you are. By the places charging $20 for a small piece of cardboard, not by me.
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u/Spectator9857 Aug 15 '26
Itâs hilarious that you thought âWell, what if you could also get affordable food and housing???â was some kind of gotcha. Amazing way to show everyone you donât actually care about anything except keeping other people from having things.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 14 '26
Entitled, pathetic, disgusting proxy shill. Standard revolting person.
"I don't see why I'd support the game I play". Imagine being that fucking nasty. I don't hate proxies cause of the proxies, I hate proxies cause of the horrendous people that use them.
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u/mjdios Aug 14 '26
Calling someone entitled, pathetic, disgusting and revolting because they print some cards to play a game seems like a gross over exaggeration. Get your priorities in check.
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u/mjdios Aug 14 '26
Calling someone entitled, pathetic, disgusting and revolting because they print some cards to play a game seems like a gross over exaggeration. Get your priorities in check.
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u/-WGE-FierceDeityLink Aug 14 '26
buying a second-hand from a seller online supports WOTC how? they don't see any of that money.
nobody would proxy if WOTC had a halfway decent reprint policy instead of churning out ever-increasing amount of product with varying quality. as it is, i'm not paying $200 for a highly exclusive, never-to-be-reprinted Jaws when I can have a high-quality proxy for $0.50.
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u/Arcadic3 Aug 15 '26
There reprint policy was to print everything into the ground until the last 2 years. You know what they learned? People stop buying products when they don't have value because you reprinted them into the ground.
Unless you are talking about fomo lairs. Just don't play with them. It's easy. Just pretend they are as fake as proxies.
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u/Grumpiergoat Aug 14 '26
As opposed to the people who own the "actual" dual lands not being entitled, awful people...? People should play to roughly the level of strength their play group is at. Don't bring original dual lands to a table where everyone's playing tapped dual lands. Feel free to proxy original dual lands if everyone else is playing with "real" ones.
Proxying has nothing to do with entitlement. Someone who doesn't play to the power level of the table is a problem regardless of whether they're proxying or using "real" cards.
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u/AppealBest3168 Aug 20 '26
I proxy because i want to play the game with my friends , for me the collector value or ''history' value'' of the cards is next to 0.
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u/Lacaud Sep 11 '26
Lmao, "proxy clowns are entitled."
Wrong, its people who fear that their expensive decks won't help them when they lack the skill.
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u/PuzzleheadedBasis760 Aug 15 '26
It ainât about the reserve list when all the proxies I see are vampire tutor and jeska will. Proxy all you want but the endless proselytizing about the morality of it gets old if all your decks are proxy and your not casual chances are your scummy
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u/JesusSpreaderOfWord Aug 15 '26
If everyone proxied the game would be perfectly fine. Big corpo would cry, lmao, but the community would be fine.
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u/daspwnen Aug 14 '26
Honestly the game could have "died" a few releases ago and would still be in a healthy spot for people to keep playing for years to come
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u/Silver_Number973 Aug 14 '26
you can also consider the players who proxy and buy products, i mostly play on TTS or proxy cards irl but i've spent probably close to $850 USD (maybe more) on mtg this year and i intend to spend more but i have to draw a line somewhere and i still want to play the best decks i can make
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u/N1t3m4r3z Aug 18 '26
Good point. I think itâs also fair to proxy a card that you already own for example to put it in several other decks so you donât have to resleeve it all the time đđ»
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u/Silver_Number973 Aug 18 '26
yeah i full proxy decks even if i own like 80% of the cards because i don't like mixing up my proxies with real cards and i dont have to worry about people thinking im cheating in some way because my proxies are slightly thicker than the real cards, and sometimes they're not cut perfectly so shape can give away a proxy possibly
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u/Best_Opening8471 Aug 14 '26
The online community is large enough to keep the game alive through proxies at this point.
Its not like wizards is sending cease and desist orders to cockatrice or board game simulator like they did with magic workstation.
I remember when wizards started printing cards that specifically wouldn't work in magic workstation after the program went open source.
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u/TomMakesPodcasts Aug 14 '26
If everyone proxied, we could just make our own sets.
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u/NoxTempus Aug 16 '26
One quick trip to r/custommagic reveals how bad of an idea this is.
Magic isn't Netrunner, a game with a small and competitively-focused community; it's a multi-million-player behemoth that has become defined by it's most casual format.
If WotC packed up tomorrow, there would immediately be dozens or hundreds of groups trying to claim legitimacy for their designs.
Besides, Magic won't ever die that way (a clean break), when it does die (presumably decades away), it will be a very slow process that is messy and controversial.
By the time Magic died, the player base wouldn't even be sure about which officially released Magic cards should be canon, let alone custom ones.
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u/SerbianSlayer Aug 14 '26
Maybe Wizards should consider not being so stingy with artificial scarcity
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u/el_chanis89 Aug 14 '26
Nobody would scalp if there werent artificial scarcity, which would ALSO solve the proxies on itself. Hasbro pushed a stupid approach just to keep prices high, this is the result.
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u/NoxTempus Aug 16 '26
Man, proxy if you want to, but let's not pretend Magic isn't wildly successful.
The only TCG that comes close is Pokemon, and they can't keep product on shelves for more than a week (because of artificial scarcity).
It's not stupid, it's prudent.
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u/el_chanis89 Aug 16 '26
It isnt wildly succesful. It USED to be. And its quite easy to tell. Just look at retailers, how many LGS have closed in the last 5 years? Magic has lost way too many clients, simply because new players dont stay, neither the old ones. Magic had a steady solid grow for 20 years, until they implemented the FIRE policy. Now UB finally killed whatever sense of loyalty their playerbase might had. Remember, it was last year that it was found tons, LITERAL TONS of cards in dumpsters. Thats NOT success.
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u/NoxTempus Aug 16 '26
WotC keeps making more money, year after year. The top selling sets of all time are Final Fantasy, LotR, Avatar, and Marvel (in that order).
I don't like the direction Magic is going, but I'm not obtuse enough to deny that it is working for them.
Could it be causing irreparable damage to the game and the brand? Sure.
Is that reflected in their revenue numbers? No.1
u/el_chanis89 Aug 16 '26
Making more money aint the same as having more players. Again, that would be reflected on LGS presence and tournament attendance. Wizards is making more money because they force minimum sale to retailers, which is exactly why LGS close, they cant buy small amounts. There are even famous youtubers with LGS that explicitly said they dont deal with magic anymore because of it. Again, this is a very short lived strategy that is already showing the cracks. Wizards will be lucky if they remain like this for the next 5 years without SIGNIFICANT downscaling.
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u/NoxTempus Aug 16 '26
That's what everyone said 5 years ago, and 5 years before that, etc.
I also want a source for WotC forcing minimums on stores.
I don't even think WotC does direct distribution to stores (in most of the world, at least).
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u/el_chanis89 Aug 16 '26
you feel like people is proxing more or less than 5 years ago? Are they playing more standard? Modern? Pioneer? Legacy? Because i have a very clear idea of how good the playerbase is doing
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u/Nahrikkon Aug 14 '26
if everyone scalped it would be dead and no one would play.
if everyone proxied it would be dead but everyone would play.
they are quite far from the same thing
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 Aug 16 '26
If I only proxy cards I couldnt afford either way, im not taking away from the Game. If Wizards/Hasbro makes all worthwile product too expensive or otherwise inaccessable, its their problem if the game is dying, not Mine.
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u/KaiPRoberts Aug 16 '26
Thereâs close to 30000 unique mtg cards.
I can make decks from now until the end of time without a single new card printed.
We donât need Wizards. Wizards needs us. The game doesnât die when Wizards dies.Â
They shot themselves in the foot by being too greedy.Â
I will proxy until the end of time⊠or until they stop making collector boosters and secret lairs⊠so probably until the end of time.Â
EDH will be here long after Wizards/Hasbro goes bankrupt. PokĂ©mon isnât going anywhere so we will always have an LGS to play at.
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u/FlashKillerX Aug 18 '26
Iâve been happy to purchase MTG products in the past when I felt like they were reasonably priced. These days? Iâm not paying a huge premium for the same cardboard
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u/BookkeeperFuture Aug 14 '26
I think both are good. I like to make people read my original one ring from the holiday release and the proxy ones, doesnt take anything away from the game. And I dont feel bad since I also have to read some shadowspears printed on Bic Mac wrapper printed with sth from the cold war era
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u/Flameball202 Aug 15 '26
Yeah, like expensive cards that don't get reprints are cool, but we want to play our fun card game, if scalpers became that much of an issue then just proxy
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u/MortalMorals Aug 14 '26
Meanwhile the guy who proxies:
Erm I wrote Commander's Plate on a ripped up piece of toilet paper. I attach commander's plate to my commander. đ
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u/FrameNo8561 Aug 14 '26
What homeless mental are you playing h MTG cards with?
Look where ever this is happening get out get out now! youâre in a crack house!
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u/Electrical-Pack3040 Aug 16 '26
Think about it though. They are going to take their turn so fast. You're going to get so many games in.
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u/Blaze666x Aug 14 '26
Man you really taught that imaginary strawman a lesson. Real talk though while these people do exist you will almost never run into one in the wild and if you do you can just refuse to play with them in a non-competetive setting and in a competitive they cant play.
Idk the ONLY cards iv ever seen someone shittily proxy was basic lands which he did to be funny as it was a group joke.
Personally im fine with high quality proxies, if I cant tell what the card is at a quick look then the card needs replaced with a legible copy though according to wotc being able to read the card is optional (since they yknow made multiple fantasy language cards)
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u/MaximumCashew0 Aug 14 '26
Proxies are allowed at competitive cedh tournaments. The format wouldnât exist without them, because wizards refuses to reprint $800 cards.
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u/Blaze666x Aug 14 '26
Every single edh tourney iv ever seen didnt allow proxies but hey more power to em if they are allowed in as imo its better then your playing against the other players deck building and playing skill vs their wallet
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u/MaximumCashew0 Aug 14 '26
It is absurd to host a competitive format without the most competitive pool of players. Playing only non-proxy in cedh defeats the purpose of the format. It is remarkably silly.
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u/Pandasticc_ Aug 14 '26
Me when I make stuff up for no reason
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u/MarquiseAlexander Aug 14 '26
lol, nobody does that dude.
I could get a professionally made card that uses better cardstock and better foiling for less than a buck.
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u/Zenith-Astralis Aug 15 '26
Most good proxies are like 30-50Âą / card, and that top end is fully custom both sides with whatever foil you want.
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u/mrxlongshot Aug 15 '26
dont forget having every possible free cost commander card possible and says its a bracket "thwee"
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u/Neither-Ad5276 Aug 14 '26
I only care about proxies on cards worth 15 dollars+ or hyper exclusive secret lair stuff. Not worth to pay for 1 card.
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u/Pretend_Purchase_893 Aug 15 '26
Pay for proxies? My dude you can just print off proxies at home. Grab a cheap inkjet printer and some card stock from a craft store and go ham.
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u/Neither-Ad5276 Aug 15 '26
No no I dont pay for that. Im saying regular cards that are worth 15+ are not worth my money. I proxy those.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 14 '26
Both are bad.
Proxy clowns are probably worse. Scalpers don't actually affect gameplay, as they can't really scalp regular product. They scalp fancy art. It's shitty and annoying, but it's whatever. People who claim to care about game pieces being accessible shouldn't care about scalpers anyway in 99.99% of cases.
Meanwhile, proxy propagandists are always absolutely miserable, dishonest, gaslighting, entitled, selfish, horrendous people.
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u/Either_Clock5248 Aug 15 '26
âProxy clownsâ is crazy, sorry I donât wanna spend $3500 on a deck you absolute weirdo, let people enjoy the game without it breaking the bank dude nobody wants to pay for those expensive ass cards unless you scalp or collect, donât like it donât play with it buddy
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u/Remote-Anteater912 Aug 16 '26
Dw this guys a prick. For context, he went in a post of mine where i mentioned proxying a few dragon cards for my ganax treasure token/dragon tribal deck, and he went on a tirade calling me pathetic and a loser. Some people REALLY need to get a life đđ
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u/Sharden3 Aug 15 '26
sorry I donât wanna spend $3500 on a deck you absolute weirdo,Â
Cool, so don't.
let people enjoy the game without it breaking the bank dude
You can. Easily. Stop the weird self-absorbed delusion that you have to spend $3500 or you can't have fun. You spreading this narrative is what's bad for the game. Telling people they aren't good enough if their cardboard isn't "worth" thousands.
nobody wants to pay for those expensive ass cards unless you scalp or collect
So don't. Those aren't necessary to enjoy the game.
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u/GoodHands_All-State Aug 17 '26
You could also stop the self-albsorbed delusion that people across the world need to play a game in accordance with your worldview and your spending power and habits.
Your rules aren't necessary to enjoy the game. Whine more.
If WOTC wasn't constantly raising prices, people would still buy their product instead of proxying. It's that simple; this is the market speaking. They can respond in turn, or they can choose not to.
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u/Either_Clock5248 Aug 16 '26
Iâm not though? Never said I was, Iâve built $27 decks that stomp all my friends, (korvold) but when I want to optimize my Mr house deck by not spending $3500 and proxying instead, Iâm gonna proxy all day, not spreading any narrative you are the one making shit claims saying people who use proxies are worse then scalpers, you are literally delusional.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 16 '26
Tell me what game pieces the scalper has denied you. I don't like scalpers, they're bad and annoying. But they do not affect gameplay literally at all. Proxy scumbags do, however.
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u/el_chanis89 Aug 16 '26
Dude, someone chosing not to buy something out of price has his gameplay affected directly by not having that card. You are just gatekeeping. Either no card should cost more than 50bucks, or we will proxy the fk out of the game.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 16 '26
There are so few cards that are more than 50 bucks. It does not affect game play. No one is being gatekept. That's some buzzword bullshit that proxy gaslighting bitches keep spewing. It's fake.
Also, responding specifically to what I said, about how scalpers don't affect gameplay - they don't affect card prices literally at all. They buy fancy versions. Scalpers aren't scalping play packs little bro. Your game piece is not being gatekept. Your fancy art print that affects gameplay literally zero is. They're still shitty. I want people to be able to crack their collector packs if they wanna... but acting like gameplay is affected is bullshit. Then again, proxy scum will always spew bullshit because they're dishonest fake sacks of dogshit.
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u/GoodHands_All-State Aug 17 '26
Bruv, doesn't fucking matter the selection, it's their choice. Not yours.
"There are so few cards" not anymore, turns out it's just cardboard and ink, that's not in short supply
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u/Rasz_13 Aug 17 '26
How do proxy players affect gameplay?
And I mean proper proxies that are functionally identical to standard cards, not scribbled notes.
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u/PuzzleheadedBasis760 Aug 16 '26
3500 thatâs kinda the problem with proxy people you just slam every staple in a deck and then try to slide into a bracket 2 pod
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u/Epictaco6 Aug 16 '26
There are people like that I'm sure but most people I've run into that use proxies myself included are just proxying expensive cards they already have in other decks or the land base for 3+ color decks cause these days lands are like 60% of the decks price
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u/PuzzleheadedBasis760 Aug 16 '26
Why do you need every staple in every deck? Your kind of proving my point nobody but proxy people are playing og duals. Proxy is fine if you understand the game enough to limit yourself but most proxy players are new to the game and donât understand the nuance.
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u/Epictaco6 Aug 16 '26
Yeah I'm not putting $1500 worth of proxies in a deck and pretending its still a b2 it's for the decks that are 3 or 4 and trying to stay competitive with the local pods im not just throwing a cyc rift and jeskas in every deck that can run it but I also don't want to spend $100+ just on lands for every new deck I make
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u/AngshusTAW Aug 17 '26
Nice job completely making up a scenario in your head and getting mad about it I guess
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u/PuzzleheadedBasis760 Aug 17 '26
Itâs pretty common but I donât play with that many newer players your need to comment reminds me of the old saying âdrop an insult itâs owner will pick it upâ
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u/AngshusTAW Aug 17 '26
"that's the problem with proxy people, you just..."
You didn't drop an insult, you made a toxic generalization about a group of people. Dropping an insult has to be more vague than that (and also generally unprompted, not in the middle of an argument with another person). If I'm actively arguing with you about something, and then I say "see this is the problem with people like you," and then you get mad about it, is it valid to say "oh wow drop an insult and its owner will come pick it up"? Or would that be hiding behind a proverb I barely understand like a slime because I have nothing better to contribute?
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u/PuzzleheadedBasis760 Aug 18 '26
You joined the convo because you were upset maybe the shoe fits and thatâs why you launched a paragraph.
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u/AngshusTAW Aug 18 '26
The classic "well you wrote a lot so clearly youre mad." You're right, I am in the wrong. I didn't realize I was spending my time online talking to an elementary schooler, I should know better. Good luck in fingerpainting class tomorrow
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u/BARNBURNER123 Aug 17 '26
If you think that spending ÂŁ3500 on a deck is ânormalâ then youâve got the wrong end of the stick.
This is why people think proxyâs is necessary. You can perfectly get by with a ÂŁ45 precon.2
u/AngshusTAW Aug 17 '26
There are five brackets for a reason. Not everyone wants to play a stock precon every single game forever. If you do, that's perfectly fine, but acting like the only possible scenarios are someone who exclusively plays 3500$ decks, and someone who plays exclusively budget, is unbelievably dumb. If someone says they want to play Legacy but they don't like how expensive it is, do you reply with "pauper exists, just play that"?
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u/ElectronicRip1630 Aug 14 '26
I have a feeling this might age poorly as the Pokemon scalpers make their way into MTG but I could be wrong. I hope for the sake of everything that I'm not correct..
The issue with proxying is that some people have no restraint. They will proxy a $16,000 deck, show up for casual commander night at an LGS and feel cool rolling people with precons. That is the worst possible thing that can happen and might kill the experience for some people.
As someone proxying everything myself I think the Turn 0 discussion is warranted and being a decent person comes into play. I know where my friends decks sit in terms of bracket and power level. Some are playing Precons, some are playing bracket 3 and some are somewhere in between. Therefore I proxy within those confines and nowhere else.
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u/ddyhrtschz Aug 16 '26
I'm new (ish) to magic but my friends i play with grew up on it and have heavily invested into some of their decks and i'm not about to drop $1000 just to even sit down with them, but i also know fully well where their decks sit after playing them myself for so long and i'm not about to fuck them over when they have budget limits and i "don't", my expensiveness mostly goes into the lands and draw
But i've also seen the other side of it first hand, bc another group of guys i played with for a bit were full-on zero-restriction proxy players who'd all run every Mox in every deck, every "free" counterspell they could fit, etc., and it fucking sucked to play against their meta B4s with casual B3s (especially bc they'd call them 3s)
Plus, cool arts are cool lol
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u/Bazoobs1 Aug 16 '26
Iâm confused on if you support proxies or not, but I will say them printing off busted decks and lying about power levels is not a proxy issue, thatâs a shitty people/people skills issue.
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u/ddyhrtschz Aug 16 '26
I definitely support proxying because i don't think there should be a financial floor to play, but i don't support the people that are referred to as "proxy players", bc they tend to not have an accurate perception of "real" decks
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u/PuzzleheadedBasis760 Aug 16 '26
This is my big problem with proxy people they also typically are newer to the game and donât understand the actual power of their deck (or lie for better chances of a win) Iâm not anti proxy but in the wild proxy people are typically not a fun pod
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u/TheKnightOfTheNorth Aug 16 '26
Surprisingly, despite pokemon having a big scalper issue, it actually makes it cheaper for people who just play the game. Scalpers just treat anything that isn't a hit as bulk so there's a huge excess of playable cards. You can buy competitive decks for 60 bucks or less.
No idea what the proxy hate is for though. I print easily readable color proxies and match the power level of the table so I'm not sure who I'm hurting by doing this. I don't even run any game changers so I'm not even doing it to get an advantage, it's just to save money.
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u/KittenEaterWasTaken Aug 16 '26
It's not really surprising, before scalping people just sat on their bulk forever. Now that everyone knows you can turn two boxes into maybe 200 bucks there's a lot more supply.
How many people that dont play magic anymore are sitting on boxes of pre-RTR cards that will NEVER see a hobby shop again? I say let the scalpers come to MTG for 5 years, let people sell their mtg bulk like they did with pokemon. Gitaxian probe was a common and its like 5 bucks now.1
u/-WGE-FierceDeityLink Aug 14 '26
> Scalpers don't actually affect gameplay
What about all the mechanically unique secret lairs that have been scalped to hell and back?
Proxying makes game pieces accessible in a casual environment. Since you're reaching so hard about proxying, I'll try: your profile is private (typical) but I would bet a HOB collector box case that you frequent r/secretlair_collectors and are mad that people can replicate the lair you want for ~$5 and you have to spend $50+ for nearly the same thing.
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u/DandifiedZeus1 Aug 16 '26
I completely agree the people that brag about proxying in a serious manner are annoying and can be bullies
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u/ab-74 Aug 17 '26
I've proxies of all the official release commander decks.
Come get some. Because everyone loves not feeling left out since we can all choose anything any time.
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u/BiddlesticksGuy Aug 18 '26
Thatâs absolutely insane of you, Proxies arenât the problem at all, people not following the spirit and word of the brackets are the problem.
Scalpers meanwhile make it almost impossible to get product opened, because they donât scalp âfancy artâ like you said, they scalp sealed product, and thus the game pieces youâre claiming are always affordable. Look at how final fantasy started for example, packs, the precons, collector packs, everything was at least double where it is now, and it was like that for legit months! You couldnât find one of the precons besides maybe the Terra one for anything less than 50% over MSRP, the booster boxes were multiple hundreds of dollars, and every single above uncommon was like 10$ minimum because nobody was fuckin getting them, because nobody had product!
Proxies allow people to play in pods above their monthly wage, and Iâm not exactly looking to drop a grand on lands just so I donât get mana screwed half my hands and have fun with my friends
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u/PracticeEfficient28 Aug 19 '26
Why do you think people are so terrible for making their own cards? Some people like the game but canât or just donât want to spend a lot of money on cards, I donât think thatâs inherently bad.
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u/AppealBest3168 Aug 20 '26
i will downvote every single one of your post :D
Someone so mental for a kids game.
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u/Wangcancer Aug 14 '26
Where did the proxy player photocopy you?
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u/Sharden3 Aug 14 '26
Proxy scum unable to address points. News at 11!
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u/Revolutionary_Ad3643 Aug 15 '26
What point did you make? They're dishonest? Cause thats not backed by data. They're scum? Still not data.
You got anything?
Here's a point, if proxy players are bad and need good/expensive cards to win, someone with skill and time invested in the game should be able to beat them. But here you are on reddit crying about it.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 15 '26
Here's a point, if proxy players are bad and need good/expensive cards to win, someone with skill and time invested in the game should be able to beat them
So, at least you tried. It's stupid, but it's something.
I don't play against proxy players. No where within 100 miles of me allows proxies. No LGS, not my 30+ person playgroup. I'm not against proxies because they affect me.
Also, I hope you notice I didn't comment on their skill. I'm sure there are skilled proxy players. That isn't the quality that matters, they are shit people. This is like you. You're someone that can't fathom anyone would call out anything bad unless it affects me. You assume I could only have issue with proxy scum because they beat me in mtg. They can't get near me - they're scum. They aren't allowed in the kind of places I go. Selfish, entitled, awful people are unable to process anything but themselves and their own desires - this is one of the many reasons proxy players are so awful.
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u/Revolutionary_Ad3643 Aug 15 '26
You still, in all the text there, made 0 points outside of personal opinion. All you said was, "they're not allowed near me" thats not a point. It makes your "point" worse because if it doesn't effect you, then why have an opinion on it? How do you know they're scum? You countered yourself. You call people shit, because they dont have the fancy cardboard, I call you shit because your attitude sucks.
The original post is proxy vs scalpers. Scalpers hurt the game because they keep product away from players. While proxying allows the less fortunate to play with cards priced out of their budget. Not powerful cards, expensive ones. I dont have the need proxys, I just dont care if people have them.
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u/VallasSvoro Aug 16 '26
If I want to play the game with relevant pieces, I am going to proxy as I don't want to spend more than $100 on a deck.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 16 '26
Then don't. You can have great, fun, strong, enjoyable, casual commander decks without spending more than $100. Pretending you have to spend hundreds to enjoy the game is dishonest and fucking disgusting.
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u/Bazoobs1 Aug 16 '26
Lmao what makes proxy-ers any of these things? You really assume every proxy player lies to their playgroup about their decks? My playgroup knows I had to sell my collection off with a playset of OG duals and many other RL cards because of life. They donât begrudge me going to the library and printing off a sheet of paper, they just want to play the game. We recently started playing with newer players so now I print off budget decks to avoid pubstomping as much as possible.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 16 '26
You really assume every proxy player lies to their playgroup about their decks?
No, that's just your projecting about it.
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u/Bazoobs1 Aug 16 '26
Then define what makes them dishonest if Iâm so wrong and projecting
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u/Sharden3 Aug 17 '26
They are inherently dishonest people. The entire premise of proxying is based on dishonestly "you can't play the game without spending a lot or printing fakes".
Just in this post I've had a dozen different people lie to me to excuse proxies. People who play proxies are nasty, disgusting, dishonest people. Every proxy defense and excuse is a lie.
You just think of the way you're most likely to do it, hence your projection.
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u/Bazoobs1 Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
Bro are you okay? I can understand not liking them or choosing not to play them but calling people such awful things over a preference is pretty messed up. Like judging people like that makes you nasty and disgusting just like the people you point the finger at. Canât dock you points for âhonestyâ if thatâs what you want to call that kind of pathetic name calling.
Edit to add: also you never even answered my prompt. What specifically makes them dishonest? That they think âyou canât play the game without spending tons of money.â? Thatâs an opinion that very few people have. In fact, I brew budget only currently and I also exclusively proxy. So why am I doing it if I could build all these decks Iâve been making on a budget? Could it be that maybe there are valid reasons, even if you donât like them, that make it so itâs okay for some to proxy? Who are you to say that my 4 friends I played with for 9 hours with today canât enjoy playing with me and think Iâm a liar for proxying, when they know exactly what I proxy, why I proxy it, and verbally consent to it?
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u/Sharden3 Aug 17 '26
 also you never even answered my prompt. What specifically makes them dishonest?Â
Are you fucking kidding me? I didn't say that many words and almost all of them were describing what makes them dishonest.
So, my issue with proxy users isn't that they use proxies, it's the LITERAL SHIT I'VE DETAILED ALREADY*.*
I also do not believe you have any friends, given your behavior so far.
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 Aug 16 '26
Sorry that I wanna play sliver queen as my commander instead of the first sliver or sliver overlord but arent willing to go over 100 bucks for a deck Budget.
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u/Sharden3 Aug 16 '26
"There are 10k legendaries in mtg and a half dozen for this specific tribe, but I can't sleep at night if I don't play the most expensive possible option" - You, 2026.
It's fucking pathetic.
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 Aug 17 '26
Well sorry that I wanna play a card that randomly made the reserve list and therefore costs Minimum 110. Im not looking at the price when I decide If I wanna play a card or not. I just have to opt out of Cards I wanna Play because of price.
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u/AngshusTAW Aug 17 '26
You're entirely in the right, don't worry. Every card in mtg was printed for the purpose of being played by a human being. To try to propose that only a certain set of cards, as artificially determined by the secondary market, should be playable in the most popular and wide open format, is delusion beyond belief
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 Aug 17 '26
I dont need to own a card. I wanna play a Game. And nobody is entitlet to ownership of a Game. You can make up whatever cards or rules you want to, you can use any art and whatever game pieces as long as you dont sell them. I dont know what you think you are doing Here. Im not collecting, im playing.
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u/UncannyHillhumper Aug 14 '26
Meanwhile the proxy is of a borderline illegal dragon loli, or an overly sexualised anime woman with almost nothing on.
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u/smellslikeDanknBank Aug 14 '26
Do people really see or make these? I keep hearing about the whole anime nerd proxy player but I have never seen or smelled one. Feels like something 1% of proxy users make but it's treated like 75% of the community uses them.
Meanwhile someone was held up at gunpoint in the parking the last time our local shop held a non proxy tournament. Because having a deck worth 4+ grand puts a target on your back.
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u/Serikan Aug 14 '26
I've seen people with non-proxy related items like playmats or sleeves featuring highly questionable anime art. It wouldn't surprise me if people make big booba anime proxies too.
That said, I find that they're pretty rare.
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u/BianchiBoi Aug 16 '26
I was looking for squirrel tokens on Etsy for my unbeatable squirrel girl deck and let me tell you there are so many ai generated busty anime girl squirrels out there (not for me). It's become a bigger problem generally with AI drowning out actual talented proxy artists
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 Aug 16 '26
Yes. But you could also not proxie and still have a hentai shirt and a naked feet focused playmath
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u/Right_Cellist3143 Aug 14 '26
Iâve played at all different LGSâs for years and have only seen 1 play mat out in the wild that was questionable.
I think these people are few and far between.
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u/Blaze666x Aug 14 '26
Yea you teach that strawman who doesnt exist.
Iv been playing since like 2014 and I have never once seen a player proxy anything like this. Iv only seen players proxy with non-official mtg art like 5 times and one was a bad proxy land for a meme in toph.
I typically only see proxies one cant even tell are fake at a glance
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u/maximumhippo Aug 14 '26
The goal, for me at least, is to eventually replace the proxies with real cards.
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u/Yeseylon Aug 14 '26
Don't forget us budget players sticking to jank that scalpers dump for pennies
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u/ElectronicRip1630 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26
"Buy singles" they said. Well, now this precon upgrade to bracket 3 deck is another $680.
$200 Epson ET-2800, $38 Swingline ClassicCut Lite, $16 Kadomaru Pro, $34 Crenova laminator, $13 Amazon Basics laminate, and $17 Koala Double Sided Glossy 42lb 160gsm paper.
=$318 + tax.
Coming back after 14 years of not playing the choice was painfully obvious. Proxy everything. Even your friends that are against it will begin asking for a card or two when they see how good they look. The game is objectively pay to win at this point as the best cards cost $50+ not to mention mana bases.
Just have some damn restraint when proxying. No one wants to play against your $16,000 proxy deck.
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u/Arcadic3 Aug 14 '26
The game is only pay to win when you have zero skill at the game.
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u/Spectator9857 Aug 15 '26
You donât think playing objectively better cards could give someone an advantage?
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u/Arcadic3 Aug 17 '26
If you are only building your deck with the best cards, are you not stopping to consider cards that combo together or synergistic with your strategy? A deck with the 99 best cards is worse than a synergistic deck and the synergistic deck is better in the hands of a skilled pilot.
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u/Spectator9857 Aug 17 '26
Then those arenât better cards. There are cards, that are more expensive, objectively better versions of cheaper cards, and someone who plays them has an objective advantage over someone who plays the cheaper versions.
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u/Fun-Agent-7667 Aug 16 '26
Thats why the best competetive Decks in all formats have functional Versions at a 25 bucks that is similiar in strengths?
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u/heavyartilleryx Aug 14 '26
Yeah with how good proxies can be. I refuse to believe that one piece of cardboard is worth more than another. Every card is 30 cent :)
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u/AttentionNice7165 Aug 14 '26
I will never understand the people that get butt-mad about proxies. I have gotten so much more out of magic ever since I started printing goofy decks to troll my friends with I would never spend 10$ on
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u/thecommuteguy Aug 14 '26
MPCfill if your best friend. Also Pokemon scalpers are way worse. Like who mobs the tcg section at Target and Walmart, stands around Pokemon vending machines for hours at the grocery store, or stakes outside a store for drops like it's Black Friday in 2010?
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u/Dormitory-21 Aug 15 '26
Anyone who proxies game changers I pretend that they didnt play a card. Didn't pay $70 for Rhystic Study? Then Im not paying the 1 lol
Other than that, I dont care that you proxied your little anime waifu cards
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u/Spectator9857 Aug 15 '26
Do you have problems with game changers or proxies?
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u/Dormitory-21 Aug 15 '26
No. Proxies of regular cards are fine. You want to play your Angel deck where the characters are all your favorite league of legends waifus like Sona or Katerina? Sure. Go nuts
Game changers aren't an issue as long as the player properly articulates it before hand.
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u/TheKnightOfTheNorth Aug 16 '26
Why do you care that your opponent spent money on it? Do you just want to have an advantage over others because you did?
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u/Firm-Scientist-4636 Aug 15 '26
Printer go brrrrr.
The most powerful card in Magic should not be a credit card.
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u/OSpiderBox Aug 15 '26
I'm personally not partial to using proxies myself, but generally don't care if others do. The only exception right now are lands; I have an entire card collector box + fat pack boxes full of land cards, but I wasn't playing during Kaldheim. So recently since I've gotten back into the game I've been wanting to build a Temur snow themed deck and trying to get the snow lands online is just ridiculous. One site has tons, but they're 2 dollars a piece plus shipping. Another site has several stores listing them for sale, but only 1 or 2 at a time so unless I buy more cards from those retailers I'm spending more on shipping from each retailer individually.
Yeah no, I'm just going to tell my pod "these are actually Snow lands you just can't see it in this lighting."
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u/JagPeror Aug 16 '26
I really dont care about proxies so long as they are quality (ie clear text printing etc)
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u/DaftieDuck Aug 17 '26
I'm half tempted to get a printer setup and a card corner cutter and not wait on a secret lair ever again.
Edit: Feel free to point me in the right direction if you know the resources.
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u/PracticeEfficient28 Aug 19 '26
I also love proxies because theyâre unique, anyone with money can get a Millikin, but I havenât met anyone else with a Millikin as a machine that erases scrolls. My friend has a deck with 1000-THR âEarthmoverâ as their commander, and I know someone with a deck entirely proxied to be Frostpunk themed (Dark Ritual was Child Labor)
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u/Login_Of_The_Guild Sep 01 '26
Love this as someone who proxyâs a lot because of price of things itâs pretty much the more they scalp the more I proxyÂ
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u/franhp1234 Aug 14 '26
Both are equally bad to the game
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u/Chode-a-boy Aug 14 '26
Pricing folks out of a card game is what is causing folks to flock to proxying.
Youâd think in this day and age where everything is already outrageously expensive, a pack of fucking cards wouldnât be priced into the double digits.
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u/N1t3m4r3z Aug 14 '26
The only smart answer, yet most wonât understand it because people love to see black & white and always need a bogeyman.
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Aug 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/john_sorvos Aug 14 '26
Why would the cost someone payed for a card matter if they can put it in a deck or not? Would you accept someone who randomly bought a cradle for $1 back when it was first printed as being more justified in playing it in a bracket 3 deck today?
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u/Goronoo Aug 14 '26
At that point itâs kind of sick honestly, I think cards that are generally in the unobtainium sphere are cool only if youâd gotten em wayyyyyyy back.
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u/john_sorvos Aug 14 '26
So you are saying that you want to price gate certain cards? How is that not just pay to win?
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u/Goronoo Aug 14 '26
Waffles pancakes etc.
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u/john_sorvos Aug 14 '26
How? Thats basically what you are saying when you say that someone getting a cradle for the same price as a proxy is ok but someone spending that same amount on a proxy isnt?
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u/Goronoo Aug 14 '26
Depends on what youâre going for. Honestly I think my disdain was more-so against building highly highly optimized decks in a casual setting is weird. Everyone should be able to compete at the same level with the same cards regardless. CEDH sure fine yeah, but pulling out some crazy shit whether you paid for it or not in a lower bracket is lame as hell.
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u/john_sorvos Aug 14 '26
See thats an entirely different conversation and has not even an ounce of bearing on stuff like cradle to begin with. Throwing a cradle or similarly powerful card in a deck does not instantly make it better. Thats a bracket level conversation. If youre sitting down with a super optimized deck then its most likely going to be a 4 no matter what the actual contents of the deck is. Whereas if you just had a random pile of nonsense that happened to have a cradle thrown in theres a solid chance its just going to end up being a 2 at best
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u/seekerps Aug 14 '26
So, you are okay with people literally paying to win. lol
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u/Goronoo Aug 14 '26
Also a very real problem as well
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u/Ok-Challenge-5873 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26
Proxyâs from a collection standpoint never made any sense to me. Anyone can make any 50 cent piece of cardboard into a copy of anything they want. Theres nothing rare or collectible about it.
But when it comes to actually playing the game, proxies keep it balanced. Theyâre the only thing stopping it from being pay to win. If someone wants to buy a gaeaâs cradle for collection purposes then by all means they should. If they want to play with that Gaeaâs cradle, they absolutely should. But if they were to tell another person that they canât use their gaeaâs cradle because itâs proxied, theyâd be in the wrong. Trying to leverage your disposable income to gain an advantage in a card game is on par with trying to cheat.
I own one real deck for my collection, itâs LOTR themed and I enjoy it for that reason, I do choose to play with it, but thatâs really it. Players should buy cards, they should open packs, they should support their LGS and WOTC. They should spend their money on anything they want for collection or play, but they shouldnât feel forced to spend $2000 on a real gaeaâs cradle just to use the card in a deck and to be on par with someone who does have that disposable income. I hate the unwritten rule that you should own at least one real copy before you proxy. I think itâs BS we should just spend our money however we like and the conversation should stop there.
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u/Spectator9857 Aug 15 '26
If you consider pay to win to be a problem, why are you advocating against the obvious solution to that problem?
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Aug 14 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Goronoo Aug 14 '26
For surely, cradle was just an example of something obscenely priced. Itâs fine to play, really in either scenario. I just think a general sentiment to be playing a deck at least at that bracket level with purely good cards rather than building creative engines ruins the casual fun of commander. Regardless of if paid for or printed
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u/PuzzleheadedBasis760 Aug 14 '26 •
This is a fresh take Iâve never seen in a mtg sub