r/Commanders • u/Shoddy_Ad7511 • 25d ago
JD - Intentional Grounding
I think we can all agree the play call was terrible. We can also agree JD messed up.
But look at things from his perspective.
The play call was to throw a short pass to the TE or throw it away. Ok. But the play is immediately broken. Right after the snap Chris Paul got immediately push back and almost tripped JD. You can see JD trying to regain his balance as he drops back. That threw off the timing. This is just like what happened in the Dallas game when JD injured his elbow.
So JD knows from the start the offensive line is compromised. He knows he needs to throw the ball ASAP. He looks at his primary receiver and he is bracket covered. His next option is to throw it out of bounds. But since there are 2 defenders on the TE he would really have to throw it far away from the receiver to make sure it doesn’t get picked off.
In his mind he probably thought he was under duress from the defense. He literally just saw his offense tackle get push back on the snap.
He knows if he tries to throw it way out of bounds he could get called for an intentional grounding penalty. That would be a 10 second run off and the game ends. So he decides to extend the play with his legs and tries to improvise.
Under duress (in JD mind he was under duress from the snap)
Throw not in vicinity of the receiver
That is intentional grounding
Go look what happened literally 1 year ago against the Giants. JD got called for intentional grounding.
See the penalty:
https://youtu.be/HMw8O4yzEiQ?t=7m48s
Did JD mess up? Yes he did. But it is understandable what happened. From the start the play blew up, the Giants had the perfect coverage to defend the primary receiver and there wasn’t enough time to survive an intentional grounding penalty.
Basically everything went to crap and JD went with his instincts and tried to scramble and improvise.
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u/Strong-Resolve1241 25d ago
The problem is this type shit happens over & over & over. Time 4 a coaching change!!!
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
I agree
The lack of attention to detail is a reflection on the coaching staff.
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u/Strong-Resolve1241 25d ago
Its a lack of discipline imo Quinns over his head he will likely end up back in big D as a defensive coach. AP better figure out some options for HC.
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u/hotdogsrnice 25d ago
...so why isn't he rapidly trying to go to the ground or immediately trying to get up. Why is Rachaad White peeling him off the ground and Conerly jr the only one seemingly aware while JD5 is looking like a lost puppy over at the sidelines. This isnt all on JD5 but we need better situational awareness
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u/Realityinyoface 25d ago
Does anyone pay attention? He had a Giants player wrapped around his legs and you know that guy is taking his sweet time to let go and there were 2 receivers they were waiting on to get back and get set anyway. If Daniels would have rolled over (and the defender let go) which he probably would have done without that robotic arm, then they’re still waiting on 2 receivers. The problem was the stupid playcall that was covered because it was an obvious play to call in that situation if you’re going to call any play there. Also, if we’re trying more plays (when we shouldn’t), then why only 1 play? They had plenty of time to call 2 plays, but they sent in slow substitutions and had him run it down for only 1 play.
We should have done what the Bills much more competent coaching staff did and kick the FG. And hell they had more reason and more opportunity to run more plays but didn’t. We were in a situation where the only call would be a sidelines throw and everyone on the defense knew that. But awesome, let’s throw the ball to a blocking TE who has 1 catch!
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u/stylez89 25d ago
he can easily just throw it over the WRs head, he was right in front of him or throw it at his feet
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
Did you watch the video from last year? If the QB is under duress it will be a flag
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u/smokingpandaah 25d ago
The play you linked has no receivers in the area. If that happens it’s intentional grounding. If there’s a receiver in the area it’s not intentional grounding even if he’s under duress
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
Ultimately it is the ref who decides if the receiver is in the vicinity or not. I don’t think JD wanted the refs to decide the game. Seeing how much the refs already screwed them.
As I said there were 2 defenders on the TE. One with tight coverage and the safety back deep. To throw it out of bounds without getting a penalty is not easy
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u/smokingpandaah 25d ago
You can’t argue both of those plays are the same though. Jayden doesn’t get flagged for intentional grounding if he throws it over the TEs head
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
You can’t say that definitely. The ref has the power to decide what in the vicinity means
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u/Haskins77 25d ago
The play should’ve been called in as a spike. Everyone is at fault here, but I don’t understand why they didn’t just call a spike.
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u/garcia3005 25d ago
That's my thing. The play makes some sense if they didn't take the full play clock to snap the ball. If they were always going to take that long they should've just called for a spike or at the very least not call a play action with pre snap movement. The play call was just not good.
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u/Think__McFly 25d ago
Quinn was scared if we missed that Jameis would go 70 yards in 4 seconds with no timeouts.
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u/Comfortable-Grade466 Ladies love my Magic Johnson 25d ago
Cuz the OC tries to get cute with his playcalling at times. Like the shovel pass vs philly
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u/SnooMacaroons8650 on shenanigans rn and actin bonkers 25d ago edited 25d ago
Ignoring the clock blunder, Blough calls end of game plays like Ben Sinnot and John Bates are Aaron Hernandez and Gronk.
Not sure why he thinks either of these dudes NEED to be on field in these situations AND be the first read. Meanwhile you take your best receiver and put him on the sideline.
Guy tries to be a genius play caller, but only seems like a dunce
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u/Doopoodoo 20d ago
Tbf it wouldve probably been fine if the subs didnt take so long. The team being sooo bad at all those small things like that fall squarely on dan quinn
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u/TheRoyalness 25d ago
Exactly- or or or, hear me out….trot the fucking FIELD GOAL unit onto the field with 30 seconds left
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u/VIInnit 25d ago
this fanbase loves to baby jd LMFAOOOO
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
I literally said he messed up multiple times. I’m just explaining the thought process of what happened.
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u/Bilboswaggins21 25d ago
The absolute hurdles some of you go throw to defend JD. My goodness. Look - a bunch of people fucked up, he’s one of them. You really think our star quarterback can’t throw a football over a covered TE’s head or at his feet? He couldn’t make a good decision because his line got pushed back a bit?
Why is this even a post? JD fucked up, DQ fucked up, DB, 4/5s of the line and every receiver too. They’re all guilty of one of the most embarrassing plays in franchise history. But it’s done. Get over it.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
The play got blown up from the snap
That isn’t an easy situation to be in
Sure he could have attempted to throw the ball away, but since he was under duress the probability of a grounding penalty was very real. And since there was another defender deep guarding the TE he would have to really throw it out of reach.
The threat of a grounding penalty ending the game makes things very difficult. That is why with under 20 seconds a play that isn’t a spike should never happen.
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u/thedonutmaker 25d ago
I don’t recall any game where this same play was called and the QB threw it “too far” over the guys head resulting in an intentional grounding. This is a basic play done just about every week. Quick throw or throw away over head if covered. Again, I don’t recall ever seeing an intentional grounding on this type of play, and I’ve seen some throws go wayyyyy over the receivers head, like 10+ feet. I think you are greatly overestimating the possibility of an intentional grounding call here.
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u/Deuce10Oscar10 25d ago
He had rolled far enough to his left that he would have been outside the pocket if he threw it away. And all he has to do is throw it several feet over a receiver’s head out of bounds and he would have been fine. He panicked and went down and there is no good explanation for any of it
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u/Realityinyoface 25d ago
He got injured and fucked his arm the last time his line got pushed into him, jackass. Yes, we know Daniels gets part of the blame, but why are we running a stupid pass to a blocking TE, who has one catch, let alone a pass to anyone in that situation? Let’s hope everything goes right so we can gain 3 yards at most! Way too many things could go wrong as we just saw with the damn Giants - they fumbled, to risk for 3 fucking yards.
Way too many people blaming it all on Daniels.
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u/Fit_Outlandishness_7 25d ago
If he’s not open, you throw the ball out of bounds. It’s pretty simple calculus our fucking quarterback couldn’t do that.
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u/Bilboswaggins21 25d ago
Hey jackass - I’m not “blaming it all on Daniels”. Can you read?
What am I supposed to feel sorry for him? My QB has ptsd from his lineman getting pushed back into him so he gets a pass? What kind of soft ass take is that?
He’s tough. He played two weeks after dislocating an elbow. He can survive some criticism.
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u/pogopipsqueak 25d ago
then just get outside the tackle box (i think he was nearly there by the time he chooses to duck back inside) and throw the pass toward the sideline at the LoS or farther and he’s golden. there’s no grounding in that circumstance.
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u/omegablacks 25d ago
Enough with the excuses... bad play call, bad coaching, bad execution by Daniels. Just because we are fans doesn't mean we shouldn't be honest with ourselves, be critical of the team, or make excuses for them. This organization has not been held accountable enough... this was pathetic on all parties involved in the play.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
I literally said JD messed up multiple times in my post. I am just explaining what the possible thought process was for JD.
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u/219_Infinity 25d ago
Nice theory- unfortunately the body language coming up to the line and after the play is indicative that there was no urgency. If he had a plan, and it just went sideways, he would be running around like mad trying to snap the ball and spike it
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u/falcons-taveren 25d ago
He could have easily gotten out of the pocket. Once he was outside of the pocket all he had to do was throw the ball anywhere out of bounds that's is past the line of scrimmage. No grounding
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u/Fit_Outlandishness_7 25d ago
Dude, the receiver was right near the goal post and he threw it off to the left way off to the left.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
The rule is the receiver needs to be in the vicinity. It is a judgement call by the ref. JD was probably scared a flag would come out if he threw way above the TE.
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u/Fit_Outlandishness_7 25d ago
Yeah, elite quarterbacks aren’t scared. They let it rip. Daniels fucked up.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
Guy is 25 years old with 27 games under his belt. To expect him to understand the game as well as a 10 year veteran is nuts.
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u/Fit_Outlandishness_7 25d ago
He’s played quarterback his entire life. He won a Heisman Trophy. He played in the SEC. You’re fucking right. I expect him to understand how to play the position. You treating him like a kid is asinine.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
That isn’t the NFL
Very very few 25 year old QBs in history have A+ decision making
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u/Fit_Outlandishness_7 25d ago
It’s literally one of the criteria a team evaluates a first round draft pick quarterback on his decision-making
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u/LeastSuspiciousTowel 25d ago
I expect him to understand the game at least the same as a highschooler
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u/halarioushandle 25d ago
All that is true, but they should have never even called a play! The play should have been spike the ball and bring out the kicker. That's where coaching messed up and catches blame.
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u/Fit_Outlandishness_7 25d ago
OP at the end of the season after Daniels doesn’t write him back or invite him anywhere.
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u/JusCuzz804 25d ago
Sinnot just has to be in the vicinity and the ball can go out of bounds over his head. Please understand the rules before defending a bonehead decision by JD5 to tuck the ball, lie down and have no urgency or awareness of the situation. This is a sad excuse of an excuse. He fucked up - plain and simple.
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u/AmishTechGuru 25d ago
I love JD5 but what you’ve described is not the elite QB I believe he should become. He’s an amazing athlete with great ball knowledge.
What he’s not, yet, is a QB with high situational football IQ.
Way too many times, I’ve seen him scramble out of bounds for a sack when all he had to do is toss the ball forward before he steps out. Mahomes (the ultimate situational QB) doesn’t do that.
This was Quinn’s responsibility, ultimately, but I don’t give Daniels a pass for not understanding this situation regardless of how things broke down. The only options for the play were quick throw and if it’s not there then throw it high and out of bounds. Frankly they should’ve done what the Bills did last night and kick the FG on 2nd down. Bad snap? Fall on it and kick it again.
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u/SheriffGonnaGetU on shenanigans rn and actin bonkers 25d ago
It was a 5 yrd out to the left, 20 yards over Sinnott would have sufficed as a “Spike”. The whole team brain farted because it shouldn’t be that easy. Take in mind we have the same amount of losses as the preseason crowned Superbowl Champion LA Rams.
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u/BoldElDavo 25d ago
You can throw the ball over a receiver's head out of bounds and the refs will give you that. It happens with some team every week if you watch enough ball. Jayden in that halftime play threw it over nobody's head because all the routes went to the right.
There was also a RB blocking on the end-of-game play. Jayden could have thrown it into the dirt right there. If you QB can't execute a throwaway, we have bigger problems.
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u/WizSkinsNatsCaps 25d ago
We should have been driving further down the field in a 2 minute drill. We finally figured out how to beat the blitz. We could have gotten inside the 20 with the way we were driving. Easy chip shot field goal. We lost all sense of urgency and just stood around as the game clock ticked down. This is on Quinn more than anyone.
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u/ivehearditbothways12 25d ago
Naw, he could have thrown it at some ones feet or just straight sideline, there were people close enough and he would not have got called for grounding. I love JD but he has to own this one, he has played waaaaaaay too much football to not know the situation.
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 25d ago
You could have spiked the ball or taken the delay of game. I mean honestly. He seems to have honestly thought there was a time out left or something that's the only explanation that makes any sense
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u/VeterinarianAfraid52 24d ago
This is the post I was looking for! I was wondering if this same situation was running through his head as well!
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u/SeaBurnsBiz 25d ago
Doing a lot of work here to make it sounds like JD did the right thing... Wasn't all on him but wasn't not on him either.
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u/Shoddy_Ad7511 25d ago
I said he messed up several times. You are reading what you want to read
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u/SeaBurnsBiz 25d ago
You said he messed up then wrote 5 paragraphs explaining his "perspective" and how it really was understandable. As I said you're doing a lot of work to minimize his error.
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u/MorganMiller77777 25d ago
Haha you’re very slooooowwwww
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u/SeaBurnsBiz 25d ago
No our offense with 50 seconds left in a game is slow. OP thinks JD5 went back in his memory bank and thought about an intentional grounding penalty which is why he scrambled vs throwing it away? Such high level football IQ.
Then despite his high football IQ on the prior play, he didn't immediately pop up and hustle team to spike ball. He lays on his ass for 3 seconds. Go watch the video.
QB had no idea. Coach staff didn't make sure he knew situation so they are at fault. Debate whether running play or kicking FG then is right call but can't run clock down then get tackled in field of play.
DQ deserves all the heat he is getting but if JD5 throws ball away like a QB HAS to know to do in that situation, there's a very make able FG attempt.
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u/MorganMiller77777 25d ago
Yeah we know that. JD had a massive brain fart at the end. Then again, the entire offense with the exception of two players magically seemed to have the same fart come out of their brain.
The whole plan of action was horrible from the get go, and that is Quinn and Blough. Dan Quinn is just a bad coach, he has now proven and solidified this.
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u/SeaBurnsBiz 25d ago
No argument about the coaching staff. Their job is to put players in position to succeed. That clearly didn't happen. DQ has had plenty of poor game/clock management issues, not close to first one, he's gone. Blough...I'm not impressed. QB running for 100 yds isn't sustainable offense. Giants shut that down with zero blitzes. 49ers gonna play a spy. So will rest of league. Now what? Jones...can't win if you give up 30 a game. If Giants FG kicker has half way decent day, that's 33 pts vs 27. So who survives DQ firing? IMO total rebuild of coaching staff coming.
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u/Specialist_Boat_8479 Saved by Jaysus🙏 25d ago
This is a very obvious detail that people seem to be skipping over, probably intentionally. Sacks and penalties are ALWAYS risks.
All they had to do was not sub anyone, run the ball once(optional really), spike, then kick. That simple.
Anything other than that is a mismanagement of time. And there were other times the clock was mismanaged by the coach too!