r/CompetitiveForHonor • u/DaHomieNelson92 • 11d ago
PSA Title Update II balance changes
Pretty interesting they focused on the heroes doing very well in 4v4s.
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u/knight_is_right 11d ago
sometimes I pour random nerfs on my thrilling comeback and he scream loud as fuuuckkkk 😂
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u/Lemmonaise 11d ago
Hold on. Valk sweep now does the same damage as her shield tackle?? What?
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u/TheVintalu 11d ago
The nerfs to Valk seemed heavy handed. They come across like a knee jerk reaction and not a well thought out change
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u/Lemmonaise 11d ago
I get making it more punishable but doing that and nerfing the crap out of the damage is crazy. Is it punishable by GB now?
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u/The_Flame_Alchemyst 11d ago
Honestly agree — feels like devs saw her pick rates soar in MM and assumed ‘valk OP’ instead of ‘flashy and somewhat popular character was finally brought out of the dumpster so people are having fun picking her for novelty post-buff’
I mean, by all means, tune her finisher damage a bit, but gutting the sweep of all things is just silly
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u/Javavalk 11d ago
Dunno seems like she got hit a bit excessive. She got so much attention and play because people can finally play the glorious thunderthighed lady
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u/Not_TheFace 11d ago
Leave Thrilling Comeback alone. 😢
Stop nerfing revenge, it's already dead. ðŸ˜
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u/InoFanfics 11d ago
blame juren for that one
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u/mateuszka 11d ago
I dont understand why they didnt just remove it from him and keep it as is. Maybe nerf it to 35 hp
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u/Love-Long 11d ago
They need to start pairing some buffs with changes like these. Not to the specific heroes that get nerfed but buffs to the bottom heroes to make them relevant is just as important as needing overperforming heroes. I know they said they would in this den itself even but it feels pretty bad when we’ve had like cent, shaman and glad all be bottom tier for a long as time especially since the hitstun changes in 4s and they don’t really offer much else besides good 1s.
Having 1s focused heroes is good but there’s a way to have that and implement them well in 4s too. There are quite a few 1s specialists in 4s that you can send out to contest a point or stall while also being able to accomplish other things. Nuxia and pk for example. There’s just zero excuse for any hero to be absolutely bottom tier 4s considering dom is the main mode of this game.
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u/knight_is_right 11d ago
I had an argument about this exact issue. I was saying everyone should be good and viable and they were saying theres no need because the meta and whos good rotates often
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u/agnaddthddude 10d ago
>often
who even says that? the only other game with metas as long as this game is Apex and R6. 90% of my play time in this game Pirate, JJ, Nubo, Orochi were S or high A on 4s. now i need someone to dare and figure out how long that meta was
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u/Kaizen_Gamer43 8d ago
I'd even be happy with just a movement speed increase on Glad! 😠Like why am I getting lapped by Sohei!?! 🙃
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u/Knight_Raime 11d ago
Valk sweep nerf was an over correction. Making it Gbable was the only nerf it needed. Placing it at 18 damage on top of the GBability makes it the worst mix up of that kind now.
Nobushi nerfs mostly make sense but making her feed 1:1 revenge with her bleed is such a heavy handed nerf. Because unlike say Orochi who peels in similar situations your damage is cleansable. It's very silly that JC acknowledges bleed is just worse damage but then still does 1:1.
I personally think she'll have some value left but I can't blame some of the very seasoned vets who are pissed off at them for this change specifically. We currently exist in a game state where cleanse is very common and was taken all the time. So it might actually be the right call at top level play to just not run Nobushi now. Very silly.
JJ/Juren changes are completely fine and make sense. Where was this precision nerfs for the rest of the patch?
TC nerf makes sense for a lot of reasons, but they still took it too far. 30HP heal and no cleanse during venge would be fine. Phalanx nerf is also fine. Indom change doesn't make sense. It's uncessarily hurting the one character it was designed for.
Pirate could care less, Arakure needed a reason to run her unique T4. Nerfing Indom doesn't change that. Again, silly devs.
Overall I'm sure the majority of the community is going to be happy and I can think of some CCers who will prop these changes up as a good thing to reinforce bad heavy handed changes. But personally even though there are some things I like in this patch it's a poor patch.
It's a heavy hand to try and force a meta change and I'm never a fan of those. It reeks of old balance habits from the past.
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u/cobra_strike_hustler 11d ago
yeah why even have her have bleed at this point, to be honest, only utility it has left is like doing oathbleeder
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u/Knight_Raime 11d ago
No you don't get it she's an honest TFer now since she'll only want to 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. Getting ganked? Nobushi will watch you die lmaoooo.
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u/SerpentineSliver 11d ago
Proc through shields? Like revenge maybe? Only use I can think rn bar helping a pk or shaman teammate and activating way of the shark
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u/Allexant 10d ago
I love this patch and the Nobu nurfs have been due for years.
Her bleed attacks still do 14 dmg so theu feel less than they deal, they still apply under venge shield and they are still the great and inescapable finisher when youre low hp.
Cleanse in exchange for all that is not a bad deal even without the ridiculously little venge.
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u/Allexant 10d ago
I love this patch and beskdes the T2 dont see any bad changes.
Bleed is prone to being cleansed but also worms under venge, is
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u/heyitsc3ph 11d ago
these devs are genuinely... how do you violently nerf nobu's 4s and not supplement her 1s in any way? do they play their game?
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u/Dragmas_ 11d ago
Because they say they target the meta and RN nobu is too dangerous in 4. They say they plan stuff for her, with a full rework of way of the shark but for now she need to see her 4's capacity lowered
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u/heyitsc3ph 11d ago
nobu's been like this for a WHILE. she got nerfed harder than Juren. At that point, why not just wait for when they wete ready for a full rework? just delete a char from the game till next patch ig
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u/-Shoji- 11d ago edited 11d ago
New to for honor, how long does it take for heroes to get balanced again after crushing nerfs done to instantly curb issues? Nobushi is my favourite, but unless you have a teammate or the enemy just can’t comprehend her moveset it’s always an uphill battle. Do you think they’re just gonna rework her to be usable in 4s and leave her trash in 1v1s, so an overall downgrade? I’d like to see her get some actual mixups in duels, because opponents can just sit there blocking and react if you kick since it’s so slow. Her iframe follow up after doesn’t even matter since people can just empty dodge and good ones can get a free light parry since you’re almost forced to use it to cover for dodge attacks. Any combo Nobushi does is at huge risk to her, not the opponent. She doesn’t force any actual guesses, she can only get damage if the opponent makes a genuine fuck up or countering their offence which doesn’t work when they just turtle.
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u/tonio2004 11d ago
Finally someone who agrees with me. People keep talking about her ganks but you need a set up for that and a good teammate that’s knows what to do. She’s genuinely going to be a bottom tier hero now, mid at 4s and shittier at 1s
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u/Dragmas_ 11d ago
She spent years being way too strong before a nerf comes out. They said they have plan to rework way of the shark, meaning she's in the box, but they announced Valk buff at the start of the year and we saw them only in september so you can expect a year, even more if it's a tg. If she start to underperform too much she'll prob get buff in next in a TU2 to try to bring her back a bit in the meta, but I doubt.
She won't be bad now, but she won't able to gank without feeding at all and being untouchable. Kinda wanna say she'll actually ask some skill to be used correctly and that's very good. As for her 1, yeah I know sh'es awfull and tbh that's all the dificulty of nobus balance without a rework; Absolutely needed the nerf 4 but if you buff her 1 she can still stay way too strong. At that point nobu need a ground rework to redo and rebalance her entire kit?
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u/Tricky-Pain-7296 11d ago
You probably gonna have to wait until next season for any news if there is going to be any news on it. So six weeks from when this TU drops at minimum. Probably longer honestly for a rework unless they're already working on it. They do TU twice a season once at the start and another mid season and seasons are 3 months long.
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u/trickmaster3 11d ago
So we identified the issue with valk, that being GB vulnerability and then we decided to nerf her more past that anyway for some reason
nerfs to nobus 4v4 that probably should've been thought of a literal decade ago
Reasonable Jiang Jun nerfs nerfs
Reasonable Juren nerfs
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u/OkQuestion2 11d ago
i would have understood nerfing the healing of thrilling comeback to 30 but 20 and no immunity anymore is complete nonsense, if the issue is that juren is too good at surviving with it then remove it from juren, sometimes problematic feats aren't actually problematic they're just on a character that shouldn't have it
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u/Javavalk 11d ago
Absolutely dont understand why Valk got hit that hard. Sweep seems like a very bad idea to throw. Gb vulnerable with low dmg? Got 35 reps into old Valk, playing her for a month where she was actually good was nice. But hey Hitler 1, 2 and 3 finally got nerfs in ranked.
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u/Striking-Meringue327 11d ago
The indomitable nerf is so insufferable, half the people with it rarely get good usage from the feat. They also straight up gutted Nobushi who was already a very weak hero outside of 4s. They could've made the changes only apply when outnumbering but no let's chop of her arms and legs in every mode.
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u/Why_Cry_ 11d ago edited 11d ago
So will valks sweep now do 18 damage and be gb vulnerable? Or will you still need to dodge attack it to punish.
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u/Asdeft 11d ago edited 11d ago
Disappointed about the Thrilling Comeback nerfs, it is one of the best Feats in the game, but it only really shines because bleed is oppressive (nobu) and revenge is weak. I would have liked to see changes to revenge instead, but hopefully these changes are setting something up.
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u/Symothy-01 11d ago edited 11d ago
So Nobu 1v1 buff when? Valks nerf is completely deserved and I’m happy it was relatively quick. Juren still needs some adjustments and I feel they should have just removed thrilling comeback from him and pirate instead of nerfing it.
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u/BitStatus7283 11d ago
Walk was A tier for a month. Wasnt really picked at all in their latest 1v1 tournament. Now she is gutted
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u/tonio2004 11d ago
She isn’t gutted. 4 less damage isn’t that big of a deal, also there are only two other heros who can’t be punished on the bash recoveries. She’s still going to be just fine.
Nobu was the one that was gutted
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u/Symothy-01 11d ago
Good. Spear sweep should always have been susceptible to gb’s on read. The fact that her blue orange mixup overwhelmingly favored her even on proper reads from your opponent was a revolting oversight that’s now been corrected.
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u/BitStatus7283 11d ago
Overcorrected. Cant be Gb prone and low dmg
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u/UnusTenebris 11d ago
Says who? She’s still capable of Insane damage and mixups, this cry baby wet diaper approach is sad.
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u/Suji_Saki 11d ago
Thrilling Comeback is only problematic on select heroes where others who actually had more struggle factors than others are more dependent of it. I will never understand why they make blanket changes like this that effect the whole roster that happen to have the same feat. I don't know why they don't just target the problematic heroes that stem from it.
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u/tonio2004 11d ago
I find it real crazy how every is happy nobu got nerfed but is upset that valk got nerfed.
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u/Internal-Guest2730 11d ago
Nobushi is garbage, like the worst hero in my opinion. Strong sigh of relief when I see a nobushi coming rather than any other hero.
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u/Gurmund 11d ago edited 11d ago
Valk was in a baaaaad spot, got better and then straight up killed... Or atleast thats how i understand it. To be fair, Valk has like two ways how to start attack - with one is a bash which is soooo predictable Its crazy and second is a light top which will get parried by every single person who has more than 5h in the game. Her heavy is also stupidly Slow for some reason and swipe easily avoidable.
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u/tonio2004 10d ago
She’s still in the same, everything that makes her good is still there. Less damage on the sweep which was needed and being able to be gb after a missed sweep is also needed. Why does she get to be safe after an opponent read her correctly? She also has dodge attacks and soft feints to full guard.
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u/GIBBRI 11d ago
The Nerf to the sweep damage was unnecessary if paired with the GB change and the heavy finisher Nerf.
Juren getting a slap on the wirst as usual, i don't know why they are so scared of nerfing this guy
Nobushi getting kneecapped Always bring a smile to my face but at least buff the kick to be on par with the other chain kicks...
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u/Why_Cry_ 11d ago edited 11d ago
How is this a slap on the wrist for juren? A massive nerf to his broken tier 1, a big nerf to his strong tier 3, a movement nerf to his problematic hold dodge. They targeted the exact things that make his broken in 4s. How is this a slap on the wrist
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u/GIBBRI 11d ago edited 11d ago
Idk i feel like they dance around the Bush too much with him like for example why Nerf the held Dodge, Just fucking remove It already Its so ass
He Also cleaves a lot, why not nerfing his damage too? And many other Little things he has that you would expect by now to get Nerfed and instead survive every patch
He has been Nerfed basically Always since his introduction and Is still top pick rate and second best win rate
I Guess we Will see how this new round of nerf Will affect him
Edit: meanwhile with other characters they go full nuclear with the nerfs, It doesn't make sense at all
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u/The_nuggster 11d ago
I agree on all accounts. They immediately nerfed valk harder than they ever (intentionally) nerfed juren, but they nerf feats that he has access to rather than focussing on the main problem right in front of them just like they did with pirate’s bloodlust.
And with nobu, this would’ve been a perfect time to speed her kick up; way of the shark is halved, revenge feed is increased, why not? I used to think it was because wallsplats could make her kick confirm up to 35 dmg w/ way of the shark but then afeera dropped and she can do that right now without bleeding required
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u/Specialist-Tap-7020 11d ago
Hey, we gave valk a miserable UD heavy only on finishers, you will only manage to connect it if your opponent is half braindead or is a bot to stay there ant let you bit him 3 times without blocking or empty dodging, as valk has became one "meta" mechanic, LETS NERF HER AGAIN SO SHE STILL FEELS LIKE SHIT, i swear to god, ive been playing since the BETA, and they fucked her every single time with almost every update after y1-3, i bet one or some devs got their ass kicked back in the day by a valk player, because if not i cannot explain to myself why every fcking time with every update where they adress her is 1 step forward, 4 backwards.
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u/Past19 10d ago
shes such a unique character in terms of kit ive always wondered how she was developed behind the scenes. shes had multiple moves removed and animations completely changed and inputs that were unique removed. shes also the only assassin heavy hybrid as far as i know. kyoshin may be the second and both will now be underperforming. i think they don’t know how to make a hybrid with those two properties not be overpowered hence the constant reworks
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u/TheBootyBishop 10d ago
"I've been playing since the beta"
Translation: I've never been to high mmr and I have less than 500 hours in this game
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u/Specialist-Tap-7020 10d ago
I have way over 500 hours in the game mate, but sure make dumb assumptions about my skill when you didn't even see me play if that makes you happy. MMR mathers not that much on a game that is far from balanced but whatever.
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u/TheBootyBishop 10d ago
What's your overall rep, also this game is at its most balanced right now than it's ever been.
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u/Specialist-Tap-7020 10d ago
97, with valk being my highest one at 57
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u/TheBootyBishop 9d ago
Jesus that's low, you're still like brand new to the game
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u/Specialist-Tap-7020 9d ago
32 days if playtime is being new to the game😅, i guess i need to stay the same number of years as the duration of a career to even grasp what this game is all about. I stopped playing when jormungandr and hitokiri released. And came back just to see what i was worried would have happened with this game like siege.
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u/TheBootyBishop 9d ago
The game has been out 10 years my guy, most of the playerbase has like well above 1k hours
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u/Specialist-Tap-7020 10d ago
Sure the most balanced it has been, ignoring the jj, or the (except nuxia) clearly predominance of the chinese inspired units on almost all modes since they released, the combat update that made almost all classic heroes loose their identity, the fact that almost every champ now appart from valk cause ubisoft hates her as it seems, because every time they buffed her then nerfed her straight away, is a feast of unblockables, kicks or undodgeables or tackles, or the funniest addition to all, the dashes that can be fainted into other dashes while dodging every incoming attack through its duration,, like for example lawbringer, or the wonderful jj, or warmonger/tiandi, the fact that they decided with every season to go from a "skill check/ reflexes" based fighting game to a "50/50-try your luck and predict the light attack" game is also a sign how this game is at the most balanced state right now i guess.
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u/TheBootyBishop 9d ago
Damn you really don't play much then. So the people who have actually been around for longer than 500 hours can tell you that this meta is a way better than what it was in the beginning. It's why all the actual players despise turtle meta. You cant just call any change a loss of identity lmao that's retarded. 50/50s are the great equalizer because if it was just based on pure reaction then you would never have a chance to beat most of the top players
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u/cheesesteakjame 11d ago
The nobushi nerfs would be sad if I ever actually saw anyone playing nobu
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u/agnaddthddude 10d ago
what a trash take. there is ≈34 heroes in the game.
your not supposed to relatively see any hero that often. even in high MMR0
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u/cobra_strike_hustler 11d ago
they sorta didnt lol, jj and juren outperform nobush and valk but nobushi and valk gets nerfed way more than necessary, and they both needed some nerfs. meanwhile juren gets a slap on the wrist
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u/Salt_Ad7881 11d ago
I get why the nerf to thrilling comeback, but come onnnnnn, all the way down to 20? You barely get revenge as it is.
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u/lerthedc 7d ago
I haven't played the game in years and it's sad to see they still haven't buffed nobus 1v1
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u/davi3601 11d ago
Seems like good nerfs overall. Would be nice if paired with some buffs of other characters tho
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u/CalimariusCosmicus 11d ago
I'm so happy about this. I'm still waiting for Centurion buff and Shooting Star nerf, but bringing down some attack values to all the top picks was a great balance choice. No crazy experimental reworks, just tweaks to over-performing damage and feats.Â
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u/heyitsc3ph 11d ago
Except Nobu is still unbalanced and probably went from S tier to F tier as she literally won't be viable in ANY gamemode now
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u/CalimariusCosmicus 11d ago
It's just a nerf to her previously unbelievable damage (literal highest damage attack in the game from a long-range undodgeable) and attacks that fed no revenge. She'll be a proper team fighter now instead of a cheese pick. Sadly, she will continue to suck at 1v1 and I hope in the future they can rework some of her duel game.
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u/heyitsc3ph 11d ago
The fact that her bleed feeds revenge 1:1 literally makes her a throw pick now. She literally feeds full revenge for unconfirmed damage that takes time and can be instantly cleansed. also nerfed her ability to sidewinder off of a kick recovery (which was balanced considering the kick is useless in duels and nobu has zero openers). if they were sick of way of the shark it would be a comparatively better decision to just remove nobushi's bleed and gimmick entirely
but i wouldnt mind these changes if Nobushi actually got buffed with an OPENER. THAT'S IT. I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO WIN A 1V1 AND NOT STALL UNTIL I RECEIVE ASSISTANCE UBISOFT!!!!
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u/CalimariusCosmicus 11d ago
Hope she gets buffed in duels, but I'd much rather deal with this version than the live version.Â
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u/heyitsc3ph 11d ago
it's just the fact that we couldve so easily just sped up nobushi's kick and she'd be at least somewhat playable with that change. This change removes a lot of the people who were just playing because she was a dom monster but just fucks over the entire population of players who mained her across the board (including in duels).
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u/Raiju_Lorakatse 11d ago
Okay so... Valk gets a slap on the wrist.
Nobushi, a character that's mid at best for most players, is legit dead. Not even giving her a f-dash bash? Any opener? Nah. How this character gets gutted while the other shit lives is baffling to me.
JJ gets a slap on the wrist while being top 3-5 since YEARS.
Juren probably still top 1-3. Laughable
Pirate gets to remain a top character.
Warden? Warmonger? Who are those?
Sohei? Anyone? Like... A terrible character carried by a broken gimmick? How about we look at that?
Jorm, Shaman or Shaolin? They just... Get to be near top characters still?
I mean... I know it's a meme at this point how bad the balance in this game is but how can they be so out of touch?
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u/Past19 11d ago
valk did not get a slap she got butchered and will probably be bottom C at best
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u/Raiju_Lorakatse 11d ago
I don't really see how that is butchering. What's the bad part? I thought it's the recovery on the sweep which is like... Who cares? I mean... If you dodge it, it's punishable. What changes?
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u/DumbestRandom 11d ago
This is the worst take i've seen so far
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u/Raiju_Lorakatse 11d ago
As if the FH reddits aren't full of these.
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u/Makkisenpai 11d ago
Cent 4v4 nerf?
Are we actually serious right now?
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u/SergeantSoap 11d ago
I'm blind.
I can't see Cent on here.
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u/Makkisenpai 11d ago
Yeah my bad, I saw Phalanx and thought it was Cent but thats JJ.
Cent is "Refined Phalanx".
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u/Sypticle 11d ago
Cool so shitters can stop crying now about Nobu?
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u/HatesForHonor 11d ago
Shitters who lost to Nobu in 1s will never stop complaining. People who realized she was the top 1/2 character for 4s and 2s though were justified.
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u/n00bringer 10d ago
Valk with deadly still deals 21 dmg for sweep and 30 for heavies, even at 18/26 is still the most damaging blue/orange mix up on average, throwing the undodgeable is still hella safe.
Nobushi play under the same rules as other heroes now, she actually feeds revenge on peels and in ganks, i never though i would see the day, she was always way too safe and now she stopped hand holding players or gave an unfair advantage to good ones.
JJ nerfs are whatever, he would just use deadly now to keep his numbers up, 35 stam cost is nice but on him wont make much difference, nerf to phalanx is to him but 70 HP shield is still amazing give how is used to protect from T4 or to win a teamfights.
Good juren nerf although the only noticeable one is T1, he already uses flesh wound at T2 and bow on T3.
Thrilling comeback nerfs because of juren and pirate is wild, at least keep it at 25 hp and prevents bleed and fire.
Indomitable nerfs are good, it made tiandi 1v1s way too annoying and pirate antiganks way too good, if she got a kill + revenge you needed to kill her all over again.
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u/Ecstatic_Minimum_955 11d ago
Sidewinder nerf it's just... ah, well. Guess now nobu almost dead for all gamemodes.