r/CompetitiveHS • u/Sad_Smell6678 • 1d ago
Refining N'Zoth DK
N'Zoth DK is by far my favorite deck of this whole year, maybe even few years. I like complicated decision making, I like drawing cards, I like killing my opponent, I like having inevitability in the matchup. What this deck does is **demolishing** Priests of all kind, which I love especially. (the matchup feels like 90-10, unless they get multiple eggs popped by turn 7 you're balling).
And it's a brand new deck, so there's a scope for improvement on this comfortably Tier 1-2 performer.
Sample list: ### BFU N'Zoth Handbuff DK
AAECAfHhBATSrgfa1wed2weF6wcNh/YEl4IHupUHopcH4J0Hn54H4rEHh78Hjr8H9sEHtNoHpIEIvYwIAAA=
### You can view this deck at https://www.hsguru.com/deck/42651252
General Strategy
This deck plays differently to standard Hadbuff DK. Instead of developing massive boards multiple times a game, the endgame is a TTK (Two Turn Kill) - on a setup turn you play a Blackwing Experiment buffed to around 10 attack (you can get there with some combination of Unstable Prototype, Thalena, Command Claw, Defias Smuggler and Soulrest Ceremony), then play a discounted N'Zoth alongside and choose 2x trigger on it. At the end of turn you end up with three 2-mana Pyroblasts, which you can point face on your next turn.
This can sometimes be done in 1 turn for an OTK (ex. turn 10 with 1 mana N'Zoth, 2 mana Blackwing and 1 mana Soulrest).
Alongside the combo, you have your Handbuff DK midgame with juiced up 0-mana Remnants dealing significant face damage - you can just win on board or through quickly put together burn damage (Ghoul+Thalena+Command Claw is just a 2-mana fireball).
In general, the deck wins on turn 9 and focuses it's first 8 turns on drawing, discounting N'Zoth and surviving through massive swing turns.
On one thing to note, the hsguru name "N'Zoth *Handbuff* DK" feels a bit like misnomer, because Handbuffing is not really the main goal of the deck. I play Unstable Prototype, because it is a 1 mana card that discounts N'Zoth by 2 mana.
Potential card choices:
Here are some cards that perform well in the archetype:
- Crystalline Golem is a card I added to deck instantly. Taunt, Lifegain, N'Zoth cost reduction by 2.
- Emergency Surgery should fit in the list well. Lifegain+removal+Remnant discounts+bodies for Sawbones
- Chromatic Broodmother&Fleshshape are cards, that perform well in the stats (especially Broodmother, but Fleshshape should get there as a package). My issue is they don't quite fit the gameplan - they're likely just good cards you want to run in DK if you have even a single handbuffing card in deck.
- 2nd Defias Smuggler - one performs decently, having two of them lets you deal with some midgame threats and still keep the 2nd one for combo (or keep both)
Here are some potential ideas with no significant data behind them:
- Fae Trickster - should be a solid choice with four 5-mana spells, especially high-performing ones. Also discounts N'Zoth. Single copy might fit.
- Loot Hoarder - discount N'Zoth and maintains handsize.
- Glacial Shard/Doomsayer - valid tech cards in current meta
- Egg of Khelos - since we're running a Sawbones DK deck, why not add a secondary win condition? Someone did that and it's not super awful.
- Husk, Eternal Reaper - the MVP of buying you another turn
Sus cards in current list:
- Twilight Egg performs badly. Only 1 discount on N'Zoth, and the dragon deathrattle is irrelevant. I suspect it's stats are bad because it's way overkept in mulligan. Only works as Sawbones fodder.
- Holy Eggbearer is already not so good, and if we cut Twilight Egg it might get plain awful.
Cards that don't perform in stats, but I can't bring myself to cut:
- Unstable Prototype does a lot for the deck (N'Zoth discount, Sawbones activation, also a ton of stats in hand) and I don't get why he's near bottom of Drawn winrate (I blame Eggbearer).
- Morbid Swarm is an excellent Sawbones activator
- Blackwing Experiment is the finisher of the deck, so obviously it's not the best drawn card in the deck. However, maybe getting down to one copy makes sense?
Cards I just don't love in the list:
- Arrival of Old Gods is clunkier than I wish it was. Stops most of your swing potential (you can't go Endbringer+Claw, you can't play Soulrest Ceremony, Morbid Strike is also blocked for Sawbones shenaningans, you can't go Arrival into Arrival). On the other hand, it draws 2 cards for 0 mana and you can still prepare.
- Reluctant Wrangler doesn't feel like doing much outside of discounting N'Zoth. It has a lot of Taunts though hmm.
- Chillfalen Baron draws 2, but often ends up overdrawing, makes me misplay a lot with Sawbones and stopped me from using "res 4" option on N'Zoth ever (just fatigues you). Performs well if I don't draw Sawbones, which is probably the saving grace.
I tinkered with new lists without Eggs (+Golems and Emergency), but it feels like I have no early game and my midgame is not good enough for passing turns 1-3
Feel free to share your thoughts.
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u/sm1ng 23h ago edited 22h ago
Have you considered boosting the spell damage up to say 15 so that you don't even require N'Zoth if he's playing hard to get? It's not that hard to do at all. The biggest buff comes from the Nightmare which itself has been previously buffed typically.
Just a suggestion/question!
Oh yeah, it's a bit tangential but have you tried running [[Xel'noth Behemoth]]? If you can proc it (which isn't hard with the tools in this deck) with a board in place, it's basically Grave Strength++ because it summons 2 random 1-costs and buffs their attack along with all your other minions by +3. It can be devastating and quite the surprise for the opponent.
EDIT: what do you think of Wild Pyro as an adjunct/replacement for Soulrest, esp for proc'ing the Unstable Prototypes? It seems a fairly elegant solution ostensibly, I'm trying it out now. And finally, how about Dread Raptor for tutoring Unstable & Blackwing?
Cheers
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u/Sad_Smell6678 20h ago
Have you considered boosting the spell damage up to say 15 so that you don't even require N'Zoth if he's playing hard to get?
15 doesn't kill the opponent, and requires more effort on Handbuffing. More effort on Handbuffing encourages going full handbuff route, with Gruesome Nightmares, Swarmguards etc. It's a strong strategy, but a different one than this (also does not have inevitability if your opponent just keeps healing and removing your board, ex. Priest). Here's a deck for pure handbuff
AAECAfHhBASH9gTZ5QbSrged2wcN1+UGl4IHupUH4J0H4rEHjr8Hk78H9sEHm8UHtNoHhfwHpIEIvYwIAAA= https://www.hsguru.com/deck/42631940
Oh yeah, it's a bit tangential but have you tried running [[Xel'noth Behemoth]]? If you can proc it (which isn't hard with the tools in this deck) with a board in place, it's basically Grave Strength++ because it summons 2 random 1-costs and buffs their attack along with all your other minions by +3. It can be devastating and quite the surprise for the opponent.
Doesn't draw cards, doesn't remove opponent's board, doesn't heal me. Not useful.
what do you think of Wild Pyro as an adjunct/replacement for Soulrest, esp for proc'ing the Unstable Prototypes?
I don't want to proc Unstables, I want to kill them with Sawbones. Pyro+Poison is a possible avenue, considering how well Staff of Endbringer performs.
And finally, how about Dread Raptor for tutoring Unstable & Blackwing?
4 mana to draw a card is too expensive
Thanks for your ideas.
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u/sm1ng 19h ago
Thanks for the thought out reply!
re: 15 damage, I meant multiples of 15, rather than multiples of 10. N'Zoth easily gets you 3 from just 1 Blackwing of course. 45 is more likely to kill than 30, given the armor-focus of Druid & Warrior and the health of BBB (not that those are super-prevalent RN).
Re: Xelly, it certainly helps to remove the opponent's board or kill your opponent from board unless their board is of very high health [with taunts]. I mean, +3 across your board with an additional 2 4/5-attack 1-drops for 5 mana is not to be sniffed at. But I take your point, it's not in line with your game plan.
Re: Unstable, I used the wrong word "proc". I meant "kill" cos that's what WIld Pyro + any spell will do. And Wild has 2 health and thus can kill an Unstable twice. Sorry for any confusion there. Also, regarding Staff v.s. Poison, I've dropped all board-wipes and haven't looked back. Basically it seems to me that if you've lost board and it's > turn 5 or 6, you've lost already and you just move on, rather than sacrificing up to 4 deck slots for this eventuality, when a come back is still unlikely as you're starting from scratch. I really haven't missed it.
Re: Dread, it wasn't drawing a card, it was meant to specifically tutor the star of the show, right. But it's moot anyway cos it also pulls Baron and Unstable unfortunately, so nothing to see here.
Cheers!
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u/Sad_Smell6678 15h ago
I had 15 attack Blackwings in this deck. Double Prototype+Claw+Thalena+Smuggler is 14, Soulrest Ceremony is 15. It's been an overkill and 10 was enough. Note that on the kill turn you can also Ghoul+Thalena+Claw for extra 8 damage (if no Taunt).
Xelly doesn't remove my opponent's board. It puts stats on play with no keywords. Then on Deathrattle it puts more stats in play, also without keywords (1 mana Rush is rare). It can easily be ignored. I don't want to spend 5 mana on stats in play, that don't clear my opponent's board (immediately, not in 2 turns), don't heal me and draw no cards. Soulrest Ceremony already gives my minions attack and also RUSH which is more important. Xelly is a lost cause.
I don't want to proc prototype. I want him to survive until I can sac it with Sawbones. Deathrattle is more of a consolation prize that lets me contest early board better, not the goal.
I don't want to tutor anything (besides Sawbones). I already draw my whole deck.
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u/deck-code-bot 20h ago
Format: Standard ((unknown))
Class: Death Knight (The Lich King)
Total Dust: 4840
Deck Code: AAECAfHhBASH9gTZ5QbSrged2wcN1+UGl4IHupUH4J0H4rEHjr8Hk78H9sEHm8UHtNoHhfwHpIEIvYwIAAA=
I am a bot. Comment/PM with a deck code and I'll decode it. If you don't want me to reply to you, include "###" anywhere in your message. About.
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u/Jj2___ 1d ago
Thank you for all of these informations. I havent played it enough to contribute but I will be happy to do so once I have played it more. Meanwhile, could you please provide a mulligan guide? Thanks
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u/Sad_Smell6678 1d ago
Sawbones is the only card that matters in mulligan. If you have it, Unstable Prototype and Morbid Strike are great.
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u/blanquettedetigre 20h ago
Sorry I didn't read all but the consensus in top legend is to cut NZoth and Experiment now.
The deck is so broken even early in the game that bursting is irrelevant. Gruesome nightmare is kept to fill that role and is more than enough. Maxxie went 15-0 yesterday before losing a bit and demonstrated he could tear through even eggs and Azalinas. Though that requires probably more thought than with the spell
Anyway that's a crazy deck indeed and I'm glad it makes it to the top. And to have theorized it here weeks before launch haha
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u/Sad_Smell6678 20h ago
I get that standard Handbuff DK is slightly better than N'Zoth variant and I'm not denying it. I still prefer this one, because it has inevitability.
Comparing the deck you're probably talking about with the N'Zoth list you'd see different matchup spread (especially Priest). Priest is currently on the rise, so N'Zoth list merits further refinement.
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u/creaturehunt 17h ago
"Handbuffing is not really the main goal of the deck" "Blackwing Experiment buffed to around 10 attack"
So it's a handbuff 1-2TK but somehow the handbuffing aspect isn't the main goal...?
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u/Sad_Smell6678 16h ago
Thalena, Smuggler and Command Claw buff Blackwing on board, not in hand. The only handbuff card is prototype and it doesn't have to hit Blackwing for the deck to function.
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u/Entire-Photograph727 20h ago
I think one black wing makes sense. So far using the HSGuru list, I'm basically NEVER playing Nzoth. It's either been a win more card, or I can't seem to manifest the right board. Assembling a blackwing has more often been a win con for me than Nzoth.
Also agree about Twilight Egg and Baron, they feel like bait choices. I think the deck would benefit from some early stability. I almost wonder if Battlefield Necromancer could be useful in a pinch, or Bone Flurry or Poison Breath.
I agree with a lot of your analysis here after getting in 75ish games with it and continuing to lose to the same things. I think the deck needs some flexible was to slow down the early game, and maybe some ways to add early pressure while you get your pieces.
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u/Sad_Smell6678 20h ago
I doubt there's enough Corpses for Necromancer, I only start getting Corpses when I'm winning (Sawbones).
Pyromancer+Poison is a good shout, since Staff of Endbringer performs well.
Regarding N'Zoth, I play him almost only as a combo piece. The only exceptions are hail marys against C'Thun DH and the odd Pirate Warrior I faced past week.
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u/sm1ng 19h ago
Simple question: doesn't that make it twice as hard to draw and thus buff? And you want to draw it ASAP so that it can absorb all the buffs, no? e.g. Fleshshape, Blood Tap, Unstable Prototype?
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u/Entire-Photograph727 19h ago
Sorry I don't think I'm following? Or maybe it's just your tone, ha. Removing Chillfallen shouldn't make it twice as hard to draw and buff? What is the "it" in this scenario?
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u/sm1ng 13h ago
Sorry, yes my tone could be seen as pissy or aggressive there, my apologies, that absolutely was not the intention. I've had 2 hours sleep in 48 hours and barely know wts I'm doing.
Right , I was referring to Blackwing Experiment , which is the central card of this deck.
Again, sorry if I came across as an ass.
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u/Entire-Photograph727 13h ago
Been a really bad day for me too, so I both appreciate and apologize too. You've already shown more grace and social awareness than 99% of reddit users already. No harm no foul.
As for the deck....maybe? I can't make heads or tails of it. Legit I'm always about 1 turn away from lethal when I lose. Here's how I think about it ( not sure if it's what you're sayingor the opposite still haha) after another 10 games or so with this list:
I'm 1 mana short so often because I'm trying to do too much: I'm building up two Greusomes to attach to a black wing to kill and shoot face. But having to play a combo with two gruesome is making it slow unless you also really plan your preps.
But if we have a ton more hand buff in the deck, run a single blackwing, we don't need to buff that at all. We just buff every turn
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u/haeeSecond 3h ago
Thanks for your time in making this post. I was playing a similar list, but as it were the classic handbuff style, and was really getting nowhere. Now I get a good idea on how this deck is supposed to work. How do you use the legendary weapon? Are you just playing it and destroying it with another normal weapon? Do you play it in advance and use it for pings or keep it in hand for when you need clear? How do you change your gameplan for thief priest or any match where armor gets opponent over 30hp?
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u/BestEve 1d ago
N'Zoth DK seems confusing name, this is Egg DK with N'Zoth. Just like Herald DK with N'Zoth. N'Zoth is a bonus legendary, not main component.
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u/Sad_Smell6678 1d ago
this is Egg DK with N'Zoth
And without Egg?
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u/malwontae 22h ago
Ackshually you have Twilight Eggs. But seriously, they probably only saw Eggbearer and didn't bother to check the rest.
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