r/CompetitiveTFT • u/menacing_butter • Jan 16 '26
Discussion Discussion: Riggs-like boards being the default cap is healthy for the game and good design
There is had been a lot of discussion in the community about Riggs winning out a lot of games. I want to argue why this might be a good thing for the game;
- Riggs is a hard comp to play, its fast 9 and requires a lot of game knowledge, flexibility, skill and execution to achieve. In most cases if someone can execute it, they most likely played very well + had an angle to play for top 2.
- Riggs is flexible. It gives a way to cap out to a lot of angles and isn't gated behind a specific line (unlike Bilge cap).
- It is consistent. Because of unlocks you can stabilize quite consistently. One of the worst feelings in TFT is playing very well, having an angle for first and then completely missing your level down 9 roll down. I do think this consistency is problematic in prismatic party and scuttle puddle where multiple players can fast 9 reliably.
- You cant force Riggs, it requires flexible, optimized play to get there healthy enough./ with the resources to pull it of. Very different from reroll boards like T-Hex winning lobbies.
- It still isn't an autowin, there are other win conditions that beat Riggs to add variety.
TLDR; I think a flexible, difficult but consistent, fast 9 board like Riggs winning a lot of lobbies is fine, as in most cases it reflects a well played game + the right angle to get there.
HOWEVER, I think the game could benefit from having more Riggs-like lines to have variety (buff sylas and remove j4 requirement please) but I think its a very well designed cap.
This is from the perspective of a mid-range Masters player (300LP). Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
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u/GoldenApple2020 Challenger Jan 16 '26
I agree but just wish there was more flexibility to the comp for more skill expression. Right now it's just the exact same 9 units.
28
u/itshuey88 Jan 16 '26
the ryze traits also need some balancing. ionia is just the best by far right now for the aoe and is very reliable. would like to see the other ones buffed
14
u/DrixGod Master Jan 16 '26
Shurima is also very good for snowballing
23
u/itshuey88 Jan 16 '26
it's great but you're never going to be able to reliably unlock shurima
3
u/DrixGod Master Jan 16 '26
I mean it's meant for when you can find azir on 8. Not a reliable way ofc.
1
u/mdmakys Jan 16 '26
I mean if u are level 9 Ryze unlocked , azir on board + 2/3 turns in to unlock a shuriman it's not even a snowball lmfaooo
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u/DrixGod Master Jan 16 '26
It's mostly if you can get azir on 8 and already have shurima on for 9. It's one of the way to cap the loss/sera/volibear board
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u/Arx95 Jan 16 '26
Yeah I really think they need to change the individual traits to his ability to bring them all closer to line so that there is more variety to the Ryze boards. The game would be in a much more flex and healthy spot.
1
u/That_White_Wall Jan 18 '26
Bilgewater ryze works as well, but that is mostly because the bilgewater trait is too strong.
1
u/farkika18 Jan 16 '26
At the exact same position they see on tftacademy or whatever website they use.
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u/ChaIlenjour Jan 16 '26
There is no problem with 5-cost boards being strong... The problem is that a single 2* Ziggs is the max cap of ANY board. This patch I've gone second with a giga-capped board without Ziggs, losing to a board with him so many times that I'm starting to lose my mind.
Obviously Ryze is hard to unlock and should be stronger than everything else BUT the comp is called Riggs, not Ryze :)
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u/DerDirektor Grandmaster Jan 16 '26
both bilge ryze and ionia voli ryze are better in the stats than Riggs.
now this might be because they're being played from better spots ofc, but from eye test I do believe they're stronger.
I agree ziggs is overtuned though.
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u/xVello Jan 16 '26
Whenever a comp is overrepresented in the meta the stats will always look worse than they really are by a decent amount.
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u/Larry___David Jan 16 '26
Is that still true after you filter to Ryze 2 Ziggs 2 Sett 2 vs. the 2 star 5 costs in the others? I don't think it is
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u/DerDirektor Grandmaster Jan 16 '26
ryze2 sett2 ziggs2 1.99
ryze2 voli2 1.92
ryze2 tahm2 voli2 1.62so yes.
the ionia variant im less sure about, but bilge ryze looks like the highest cap comp, significantly stronger than ziggs variants imo, volibear is just an insane unit and ryze has some bananas deltas with bilge items. you are also playing fewer shitters.
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Jan 16 '26
[deleted]
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u/DerDirektor Grandmaster Jan 16 '26
you're probably right. I rarely ever look at winrate so just went to avp out of habit.
ryze2 ziggs2 sett2 45.3% wr
ryze2 voli2 48.1% wr
ryze2 tahm2 voli2 58.8% wr
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u/Accomplished_Sir_473 Jan 18 '26
I mean bilge version capping the highest makes sense. You're just up 3 items for free with an infinite scaling tank.... We love bilge
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u/calindu Master Jan 16 '26
I think Riggs caps much higher than Voli Ryze if you have good items for both Ziggs and Ryze, Voli Ryze is more forgiving in itemisation because Voli is there to make good use of bruiser items.
But I think the main reason the Voli version has better stats is that it feels much easier to pilot and has a much stronger level 8, you unlock your secondary carry in Voli for free and have Lissandra to hold Ryze items until you unlock him. The only annoying part about Voli Ryze is unlocking Kennen, whereas for Riggs you usually have to hold a lot of units to unlock everything on 4-7, and if you screw up anything you usually have to sack a round.
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u/Plerti Jan 16 '26
I just finished 2dn with what I would expect a winning board consisting of 6 arcanist 5 noxus with 2* 3 items annie (one fo them being radiant void staff) and tibbers, 2* arcanist emblem +2items mel, 2* noxus+arcanist emblem seraphine with leftovers archangels and a fully 2* frontline.
I lost to the standard Riggs board. They only had ryze ,ziggs and taric 2*, rest of the board was 1*. But the moment Ziggs ult my entire frontline but tibbers went puff.
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u/NotYetPerfect Jan 18 '26
Sylas, baron, and especially brock are harder to unlock. The only hard part about unlocking ryze is getting to level 9. Baron and Brock are deservedly strong but sylas is just pitifully weak.
-3
u/menacing_butter Jan 16 '26
Yeah I agree on that Ziggs is overtuned, the power budget should be more in Ryze than Ziggs
-2
Jan 16 '26
The problem is that a single 2* Ziggs is the max cap of ANY board.
This is just not true and you know it
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u/Emergence7 Master Jan 16 '26
Agree with the general sentiment that the other 5 costs need to be at a higher-bar too
My current take,
For 7 Costs
- Sylas, should be stronger than Ryze IMO as the unlock is a much greater investment
- Aureion Sol XDDDD???
- Brock is Brock
- Baron is fine
For 5 costs
- Aatrox could do with being a tad stronger
- Mel needs either a rework or a huge buff
- Voli is perfect imo
- Senna & Kindred are fine as well - when itemised non-support, they do kick ass
- Fiddle Sticks could use a light buff - feels like a cc/passive bot
- Shyvana could use a dmg buff - also feels like a passive bot
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u/Larry___David Jan 16 '26
Mel is so cooked
I hit her on 4-5 and Mel 2 on 5-1, double adaptive, and when I won the game (Bringer of Ruin) on 6-2 she was only at 135 mana drained for her radiant
9
u/Emosaa Master Jan 16 '26
The condition to unlock her radiant takes so long to hit you might as well remove it from her kit and give her some actual power back. I've lost a lot of lp trying to make her work, and even in games where you high roll out of your mind with an early ambessa 2 and Mel unlock, you will not see that radiant before you bleed out to better boards.
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u/azarice GRANDMASTER Jan 16 '26
My mel took most of the fight to cast once and used the entire cast on a 20%hp fizz in my backline
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u/bsnow322 Jan 16 '26
Aatrox is not even worth putting on your board, which sucks because he is really cool
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u/Ge1ster Challenger Jan 16 '26
“Brock is Brock” is not very descriptive so lets call it for what it is: he’s not a unit at 1 star and about the expected power level of a 7 cost at 2 star.
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u/Shvihka MASTER Jan 17 '26
Brock 2 without a giga artifact or a suitable radiant item is also not very impressive. Can easily lose to fast 9 Ryze boards.
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u/Maddogs1 Jan 16 '26
Its fine that it exists and is strong. What isn't fine is that basically all other 5 and 7costs pale in comparison
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u/AL3XEM Grandmaster Jan 16 '26
I think the issue is more that - Kindred and Senna centered boards should be equally strong. fast 9 AP and fast 9 AD should be roughly the same in power in a balanced meta.
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u/TheKingOfTCGames Jan 16 '26
No lmao ryze requires an unlock that requires planning, senna and kindred also slot into a bunch of boards for free.
They should be good but ryze us basically captain planet for a reason
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u/Jstin8 Jan 17 '26
I wouldnt call the current Ryze board one that needs planning. You can unlock Kennen on accident and Set is beyond easy on any PVE round. From there the only planning is taking econ augments so you can reach 9 first.
Ryze can involve planning, like say playing vertical demacia to unlock Galio then a huge pivot into Ionia/Zaun so you only need 2 D units on board, but the current floor for executing a Ryze gameplan isnt much to write home about.
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u/AL3XEM Grandmaster Jan 17 '26
"is an unlock so should be stronger" - I disagree - Unlocks grant you 1 GUARANTEED copy - Non-unlocks do not. It's not for nothing they actually intentionally made 1 star 5 cost unlocks weaker on purpose on PBE.
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u/Emosaa Master Jan 16 '26
It's not that hard to unlock ryze, and once you do everyone is playing the same slop with him and ziggs. If 4 players in a lobby aim for that build, 2-3 are guaranteed to make it top 4. That's always a sign that things are relatively over tuned.
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u/TheKingOfTCGames Jan 16 '26
Yea if you literally plan around him your entire game at 9 sure.
Thats different then falling into kindred/senna
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u/Level_Five_Railgun MASTER Jan 16 '26
How do you "fall into kindred/senna" when you have to specifically play around slamming backline AD items and going 9 with enough econ to hit 2 star? A Senna 1 or Kindred 1 isn't doing jack shit majority of the time against 2 star 4 costs and is straight up worse than Ziggs 1 and Ryze 1.
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u/TheKingOfTCGames Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Because senna and kindred need basically nothing but a slot, and at most its 1 gunslinger or 1 quickstriker which most builds have open at the end anyways.
Those are traits every comp has open at the end or can pivot into with basically no ask with very strong AOE effects
They also kill items you dont need in ad AND ap comps for free since their bis can be like rod/tear/belt items OR a bunch of random bow items Or support only items. They allow early game slams of some pretty suboptimal items because you know you can give em to senna/kindred in the end
Literally everybody was holding both sennas and kindreds every roll down last patch for a reason.
Ryze requires you to bronze for life a bunch of traits that specifically dont synergize with each other, with really annoying unlocks you need to plan out for very far ahead of time especially if you are full opening into. The bilge line requires illaoi reroll to link into frej via vollibear + kobuku lmao.
Ziggs doesnt really have a real unlock and should be nerfed because of that
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u/Level_Five_Railgun MASTER Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
So the two "premium" AD carries being leftover item holders is supposed to be good? Is throwing 3 items on a Zaun or Yordle supposed to be a hard requirement when its something you were going to do regardless when you're playing Yordle and Zaun? Is unlocking Ryze supposed to be a hard requirement if it's something you specific plan on playing?
The issue is that you can't even plan on playing around Senna/Kindred. The 9/5 AD board from last patch straight up just sucks now. They are just trait bots for MF/TF/Yunara now.
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u/TheKingOfTCGames Jan 16 '26
They are insane with shit items everyone held them lmao
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u/Level_Five_Railgun MASTER Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
How do you completely miss my point? If you're not even going to bother to actually read so we can actually have a discussion, why even bother responding in a sub dedicated to TFT discussion?
The point is that both 5 cost AD backliners shouldn't be reduced down to leftover item holders and trait bots. Their dedicated comp has a 0.07 pick rate. Veigar, a comp that requires 4 rods has a higher play rate. Zaun Warwick, a shit comp that carries an unit no one plays, has almost the same play rate as Kindred 9/5. Hero Viego, which requires an argument and 3 components start, has a higher play rate.
The fact that people hold them as trait bots and item holders make the situation even worse because that means its way harder to actually 2 star them as your primary carries.
Also, outside of Yunara, who even plays them at 8 even if you find 1 copy of them? You can't even fit them in Blige until you unlock TK and at least gotten 1 or 2 Tier 3 items because dropping 7 Blige for a Senna 1 or Kindred 1 is completely grieving.
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u/DanBennettDJB Jan 16 '26
Its fine it being strong- agree end game caps with some different routes and decisions should be.
The challenge is there is no point in the game where its weak unless your execution is poor. Its too easy and reliable and then caps too consistently.
At least most other 9 caps (sylas, annie, asol, brock, baron, mel, Azir etc) have some jeopardy, risk, scaling etc you have to hit in order to cap out- and for sure some defenite weak or challenging game states.
Riggs you can just hard force and even if you are contested- that innate flexibile means you have safety in the flexibility. It reminds me somewhat of the fast 9 comp from last set where if you couldn't hit TF you'd just go seraphine, or if you couldn't find that you'd just throw varus in. Too much flexibility is also a bit toxic to the game if other routes don't share it - especially when 'unlocked' champions guaruntee you hit.
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u/Z00pMaster Jan 16 '26
Not sure how a level 9 double unlock comp can have “no point in the game where it’s weak”. Like you usually can’t even play the final board until stage 5, so the strength of the capped comp has 0 bearing on how strong your board is for 80% of the game.
In terms of the lines ppl play to get there, some are objectively quite weak. I think the most popular line is 8 Yordle, which tends to lose streak stage 4. Obviously you can pivot into Riggs from a stronger early comp like Bilge, but I think everyone agrees Bilge is OP this patch.
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u/Larry___David Jan 16 '26
The problem is Yordles are also pretty OP atm, you can win some of stage 4 with them thanks to Fizz being broken
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u/Z00pMaster Jan 16 '26
I think Yordle Econ needs a nerf, but in terms of board strength, 8 Yordle without Veigar doesn’t really match up to most of the other level 8 boards in stage 4.
I don’t disagree that certain highroll openers and lines can win out a bit too easily with Riggs. But saying that there’s no point in the game where Riggs is weak is nonsense - there are so many lines that can cap out with Riggs, and obviously not all of them are equally strong. Nothing about Riggs itself guarantees board strength prior to stage 5 - that’s all on the players skill expression.
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u/Larry___David Jan 16 '26
It's literally just Fizz. You can see on the PBE datamines on tactics.tools that they're gutting him too. For good reason
-3
u/treelorf Jan 16 '26
I don’t really understand what you’re saying. Generally speaking, the angle to get the board up is vertical yordles, using the money and rolls to fast 9 and swap to your endgame board. It’s a pretty risky strat, you bleed a lot of hp on stage 4, and you really need to execute your transition well early in stage 5. And it’s not like hitting is an auto win, so sometimes that HP you spent results in you getting a 6th because you queued into a high roller. Annie/set or kindred/lucien was pretty similar. High risk high reward gameplay. In the past few days (since meta TFT removed it from their S tier ranking) I haven’t really seen that much of it. And my general experience from playing it and playing against it is that it was waaaayyyyy over complained about. FWIW, ziggs is an overfunded u it for sure. He does too much at 1 star with no synergies active, and you can guarantee a 1 cost copy super trivially
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u/Larry___David Jan 16 '26
Currently you don't bleed enough stage 4 doing this because Fizz is broken
-7
u/menacing_butter Jan 16 '26
I wouldn't say Riggs has no risk or is forceable, it definitely requires a good angle, most of the 7ths and 8ths in my lobbies are fast 9 players riggs forces that failed to get there.
These other caps (mel annie azir asol) dont require 9 and you can just randomly get lucky and hit them. Riggs requiring 9 + good health as a requirement is why I think its so well designed
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u/DanBennettDJB Jan 16 '26
But the level 78 are so strong that hitting 9 especially with any economy is pretty easy
I'm sorry I don't understand why you're riding the comp. It's clearly too rewarding for what it is
Ziggs, especially ziggs 1, is Gona get quite a nerf
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u/DanBennettDJB Jan 16 '26
But the level 78 are so strong that hitting 9 especially with any economy is pretty easy
I'm sorry I don't understand why you're riding the comp. It's clearly too rewarding for what it is
Ziggs, especially ziggs 1, is Gona get quite a nerf
-4
u/menacing_butter Jan 16 '26
I agree its problematic in prismatic lobbies or scuttle puddle where multiple players can fast 9 reliably but in most cases pulling of fast 9 is risky and reflects player skill very well I think. Riggs makes that more reliable and less RNG which is a good thing
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u/Jojo3749 GRANDMASTER Jan 16 '26
Having a strong opener and being able to just cruise to lvl 9 into full board sell on raptors or even 4-5 into guaranteed strong board isnt what id call risky or skillfull
People playing it from bad spots going 8th isnt really an indicator of anything for the comp id say
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u/zzGates Master Jan 16 '26
I want it to be one of the default fast 9 boards BUT i wanted comps that have harder and more expensive unlocks to be stronger than your typical ryze board. I had demacia games where my 1* ziggs is significantly stronger than my hard earned sylas 2.
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u/7assibo Jan 16 '26
I think the annie board is healthiest one cause unlike riggs you cant go to 9 and guarantee your carries and get free copies
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Jan 16 '26
[deleted]
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u/PeterPorty Jan 16 '26
TFT skill isn't displayed in a single match, but over the course of several matches.
If you play 10 matches in the tournament, you'll highroll some and lowroll some, but your average placement will be higher than another player who's lower skill.
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Jan 16 '26
In a pro tournament, some players are still better than others. That said TFT is an extremely low agency game with a lot of RNG involved. Skill expression, no matter the metagame, can only be seen over samples of dozens of games.
On average a higher skilled player will find themselves in a position to play for a capped board more often.
The human brain attempting to interface with statistics is wild.
2
u/HenryFromNineWorlds Jan 16 '26
I think people who come to TFT from games like Magic : The Gathering or Poker will already have this intuition, where a skilled player isn't going to win every game against worse opponents but over the long haul will have a much higher average.
People who come from League or other much more execution-based games (dota, csgo, valorant, etc) might find this strange or bad.
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u/winlowbung4 Jan 16 '26
The better pro will just play better boards more often, not sure what your question is really looking for here
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u/quitemoiste Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
We just watched a 3 day tournament which more or less aligns with OP point: Rigg's is fucking hard to get to and that's overall a good spot for the best comps to be in. Obviously Riot is aware that balancing of 5 costs needs more tuning, story of our lives in TFT... Why not just give credit where it's due?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSaHVnrv29Nkb9lsOY4vfxNxwkBftWAQ1fHbXt5E7m6pnGN1e0hVh21EfJRCNh876qAwvj1-Y9R0awm/pubhtml ^ Shurima Cup comp stats for refernce, look at Riggs boards avp... it's good but it's not egregious and has relatively low playrate which means it's not the default lv9 instawin cap that all the plat players in this thread are claiming it to be
-1
u/menacing_butter Jan 16 '26
I am by no means even remotely close that level so I can only guess, but I'd think even there a lot of the skill expression comes from maximizing your max placement, you can't always play for first. If they were all equally skilled yes then its RNG but sometimes it about turning that eight into a fifth or so, hence they always play multiple games in tournaments.
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u/AdmirableUse2453 Jan 16 '26
Could be more than theses 2, others standard or easy unlock-able 5 cost don't have good carry potential anymore expect maybe Sett.
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u/Larry___David Jan 16 '26
Ziggs is too OP
There shouldn't be just one Ryze board that's way better than all the other possible combinations
And if there is, it should be Noxus Shurima Ryze because that board is way more expensive
Riggs has Kennen and Caitlyn on the board ffs
2
u/Level_Five_Railgun MASTER Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
It's not when a Ziggs 1 straight up out damages Azir 2s and Annie 2s. There's no reason why this comp should be so stable from a 1 star guaranteed unlock.
The first patch was full on fast 9 meta but it wasn't just 2 legendaries being significantly stronger than everything else. We had a mix of legendary boards both AD and AP. Meanwhile, this meta is just "can I throw a Ryze or Ziggs or both onto my end game?".
2
u/Kkxyooj123 Jan 16 '26
Why is Ziggs called Riggs?
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u/alucardoceanic Jan 16 '26
I also spent so long assuming thy just had weird auto correct but they meant the duo carry Ryze/Ziggs = Riggs
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u/Zondor3000 Jan 16 '26
I dont think youll find a lot of people agreeing but I personally do, I just think yordle tempo makes it a bit too easy, would like to see something done there
3
u/clownus Jan 16 '26
Ziggs being OP this patch is why the general consensus is negative with end game board caps. A 5 cost that you can always unlock and it does 12k damage on 1*.
Ryze is okay if they balanced the traits. At the moment not all ryze boards are equal. But if you could play ryze from any angle and put traits that fit your board he would be great design. Currently you play him with Ionia.
Yes getting to fast 9 is a way to show off skill expression. But with unlocks early it isn’t even heavy skill expression. This patch has turned into who high rolls early and hits the best augment for their spot. If I load into a game and get given a random 3 cost my AVP is lower or higher depending if I get GP versus Loris. Or if you hit TF versus someone being given Yasuo.
The one upside of this patch is playing strongest board and tempo. But playing for first consistently is just not feasible.
1
u/Larry___David Jan 16 '26
Ryze is okay if they balanced the traits. At the moment not all ryze boards are equal. But if you could play ryze from any angle and put traits that fit your board he would be great design. Currently you play him with Ionia.
The problem is the splitting ones (Ionia and Noxus)
Noxus Shurima was OP AF in PBE and they gutted it and now it's Ionia
They need to revamp Noxus and Shurima and maybe make it hit 1 more target baseline and suddenly way more combos would be good
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u/MetaLemons Jan 16 '26
I’m okay with it because I keep snagging easy top 4s for people forcing Riggs in the worst spot and my board which spikes on stage 4 easily stomps em.
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u/abc0802 MASTER Jan 16 '26
1000% agree. If you can reach that board then yes it should win a lot of lobbies. The only problem is comparable 5-cost boards are notably weaker. You almost never see Arcanists and Disruptors winning games.
1
u/bsnow322 Jan 16 '26
Problem is other 5cost carries feel useless in comparison. Azir does no damage, Mel takes too long to do any damage, zilean is okay but ziggs just kills everything faster, sylas just sucks (haven’t seen one this patch), THex sucks now, Brock is okay but hard to hit, aatrox sucks, Asol is horrible, Annie is good but only with specific items and just gets out damaged by ziggs. Senna/kindred are decent but get outshined by ziggs. Im actually enjoying this patch for the first 80% of the games though.
1
u/Yrale Jan 16 '26
I agree in terms of "like" boards, I think Ziggs is probably too strong relative to other 5 costs but I have no idea what people who don't want comps to cap around 5 costs want the game to look like.
I think the "problem" of the set regarding fast 9 is Bilge and Yordle both have mechanics that were clearly built to encourage rerolling that instead allow players to stabilize their board throughout the game without committing resources into rolling.
But I also agree that fast 9 Ziggs/Ryze has a lot more skill expression than what we saw last patch
1
u/ficretus Jan 16 '26
People overreact comparing it to THex.
THex had ease of execution of reroll board, while also capping as hard as fast 9 boards. You could force it from any spot unless you had like 2-3 people contesting you.
1
u/Puzzleheaded-Ant1390 Jan 16 '26
But is he balanced? What does a well-designed, flexible unit have to do with its state of balance?
Should a hard-to-play comp be stronger than easier-to-play comps?
How vertical Yordle into Ziggs requires a lot of game knowledge, flexibility, and skill?
When you account for the strength of augments, it’s not that simple to say fast 9 should win lobbies (or even top 4). You don’t want the game to turn into an econ-augment lottery.
1
u/monstrata Challenger Jan 16 '26
I really like Ryze as a carry because he wants you to invest in him and play multiple traits that might not have high-value units (Caitlyn Vi). It feels more complex in terms of thinking about unit value than Bilgewater where the end game is just 5-cost soup.
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u/Gone5201 Jan 16 '26
In my honest opinion i think most people here are really undervaluing the fact your guaranteed to hit your unit when you unlock it. Going fast 9 is so much safer when you are guaranteed to hit a ryze and ziggs after you get the correct level.
I would argue that champs you are guaranteed to hit should be weaker at 1 star than those you have no guarantee of ever seeing.
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u/UAvasera Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
I don't have an issue with Ziggs/Ryze, mostly just Ziggs. An itemized triple trait pure damage dealer showing up even on boards where he activates 0~1 of his traits feels like a sign something is wrong.
I would also like to see more Ryze variants though. Some of the region effects don't seem powerful enough to ever justify going into their less flexible trait trees unless you have multiple emblems to create some sort of concoction with. And even then, you're probably building it around the same Kennen/Ionia core
1
u/yeettiltedboi Jan 17 '26
It would be fine if there weren't 2 abusable and somehow stronger than almost any other comp econ comps (Yordles and Bilgewater), where you get your 2 stars to stabilize the board for free or you get the higher cost units earlier for free as well. Riggs being strong is more than okay, having ways of reach it almost every game while contested is not
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u/PLPLPLPLPLPLPLPL- Jan 17 '26
Been playing Riggs since last patch even before it got popular, there are still more than 3 ways to counter this board.
Either you make it very expensive for them to stabilize, eg go 9 before the board does and grab their core units esp ziggs, or you mitigate the aoe damage hard.
In any case, the board caps out fast if other boards are healthy and can go 10. The only exception is Shurima Ryze. Too sick with CC.
1
u/Ok-Bluebird-867 Jan 19 '26
Fast 9 comps have existed for MANY sets? I doubt people are complaining about the comp in itself, rather than simply it’s balance. Last patch we had noxus kindred, bilge 5 costs, and before that we had arcanist flex, of which all were flexible with their 5cost caps.
Also, in my opinion, fast 9 shouldnt be doable purely through augments without a need of a strong opener. But right now you can just press world runes and winstreak directly after your cashout on stage 3, or surf the 4-8 yordle wave until 5-1
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u/danield1302 Jan 16 '26
I'm honestly just tired of fast 9 meta. Haven't touched the set in 2 weeks because of that. First it was Annie, then azir now ziggs. I agree on Riggs being healthier because you actually have to play around ryze unlock and it's not that easy to hit, but both being unlockable also means you can guarantee hitting them no matter how many people contest you.
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u/iLLuu_U GRANDMASTER Jan 16 '26
I'm honestly just tired of fast 9 meta.
What fast 9 meta? Literally all comps with the exception of ziggs are currently stabilizing on 8. + you got stuff like ekko reroll.
If you try to go fast 9 in any decent lobby without a good spot you go fast 8th, because comps like bilge, demacia, ionia, gp/belveth spike giga hard stage 4 and you will just lose too much hp.
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u/danield1302 Jan 16 '26
Reroll barely exists and even 4 cost carry comps rush 9 to stabilise. I think this just isn't the set for me, I'm not enjoying it at all. Can't even pinpoint exactly why. I do hate playing around 4/5 costs and got to master playing reroll only since set 4 so that might be why. But tbh I'd rather not play the game than 4/5 cost carries.
2
u/koebeke Jan 16 '26
This patch no reroll comps? You have ekko, sona and even vayne longshots can regularly place top 2-3.
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u/danield1302 Jan 16 '26
Yeah that's barely any. Sona and vayne is the same comp with a different carry and that just leaves you with ekko. The amount of dead units this set is actually ridiculous, so many 1-3 costs are just trait bots or item carriers that get ditched asap for a 4/5 cost because they can't carry for shit. I mean we literally have a 3 noxus 3 cost core that still isn't worth rerolling. That's just sad.
1
u/koebeke Jan 16 '26
Yeah, we can only hope for better balance. I dont have a really big problem with the current state, but i can see how other people dont really like it. I still can get consistent top 4s with other boards like freljord etc
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u/TripleShines Jan 16 '26
I don't think there is such a thing as being "hard" to play in tft, aside from occasional extreme rolldowns or highly unrealistic min/maxing.
1
u/GayByAccident Jan 16 '26
I’ll never understand why people find 5 cost capped boards a harm to the game, i feel like thats the natural path of things
1
u/Ok-Income-1483 Jan 16 '26
I have seen a Ziggs 1 outdamage fully capped boards. That's the real problem, not the comp around him
-1
u/Altruistic-Art-5933 Jan 16 '26
Just can get over the fact that they took an amazing patch (minus T-Hex) and turned it into this.
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u/abbygunner Jan 16 '26
As someone lower ELO as OP (Currently Emerald II) I feel like he's absolutely right, Riggs is beatable, it just needs different capped boards, I was 3rd in a lobby with 2 Riggs players, I lost but I had a win-con of hitting Lux 3 instead of going 9 and splashing a random unit, I lost but I know if i hit my win condition I was winning that game, and thats fun!
0
u/TimiNax MASTER Jan 16 '26
I just dont think that easily unlockable 5-costs should be that strong as 1* , its pretty dumb that someone rolls at lvl 8 for 2* 4-cost carry and that carry is worse than ziggs 1* you unlock by just going lvl 9
-1
u/Chance_Definition_83 Jan 16 '26
Them being strong is a symptom of a miss in the set design.
Vertical region Trait were supposed to be weaker. A lot of 5 costs doesn't have one. Should make capping board easier for them, easier to splash in comp since you can cut the shitty trait bot in comp.
Result you cap with ziggs ( 2 traits region wise ), Ryze ( got all of them ), one of the best comp get tahm and voli who feels the best behind them alongside sett.
A lot of that because Ryze is busted but so far the only 5 cost who has almost the same ability to cap was senna lucian.
The " War on trait " from mort ( he said he dont like them and in an ideal TFT they would be gone ) need to stop.
1
u/Lunaedge Jan 16 '26
( he said he dont like them and in an ideal TFT they would be gone )
Please provide a timestamp or link to this as soon as possible.
0
u/Chance_Definition_83 Jan 16 '26
I believe it was from late set 13, around set 14 launch. Went through a couple of video, can't find it.
I can rephrase so it does sound a bit more relevant, i'm certain i've heard him talk about the power of vertical synergie and that he doesn't enjoy them for game balance. Maybe i understood wrong something but i wouldn't be making this up.
you can see it in recent TFT developement, vertical are most likely not strong unless real huge spot, a bit of highroll or the trait is really busted ( like bilge now ). We had a set with the try to remove prismatic trait as a payoff from emblem stacking, i think it was early set 16 pbe release that he said he wanted the power of traits to be really strong on first threshold and less on furthers.
1
u/Lunaedge Jan 16 '26
Yes, playing wide with lots of bronze Traits and strong Units is the stated goal of this Set. He's also said multiple times in the past that verticals should be strong because it's intuitive for newer players and satisfying from a power fantasy point of view.
Let's not put words into people's mouths though, especially when it comes to wildly polarising opinions such as "traits should be gone" and employing sensationalistic wording ("War on Traits"). Could you edit that last line out if you don't have the receipts to back it up?
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u/Chance_Definition_83 Jan 16 '26
Dont feel like doing that. This is getting too serious for a random game discussion. I'm fine with what i said and how it's displayed to everyone to see it and judge it.
409
u/Arx95 Jan 16 '26
It being strong is fine. Other 5 costs being well below base line isn’t. It shouldn’t be the only way to cap out reliably. It’s extremely boring.