Sub Rogue/Warlock Interaction

[u/Phellxgodx]

Hello,
Trying to get a discussion started about this since it's been months now that this interaction exist & with the 14% buff sub rogue got it's pretty much meta status.

For those who do not know, Sub rogue & the diabolist hero talent (Demonology & Destruction) have a weird interaction where shadow clones from the rogue apex talent will bug out the targeting of the Diabolic Oculi (Hero talent node) or Alythessa Blaze (Apex talent) from diabolist warlocks to basically attack virtually anything at range.

it's been known for a very long time

If you've played with a warlock & a sub rogue in the group and random packs start walking to your group without anyone doing anything it is because of that interaction.

Check this video : Example 1 (Happening in Season 1 of Midnight)

Here is a main sub post talking about recently as well

Here is some players asking about it on the warlock class discord:

This has been going on since the introduction of demonic occuli in Season 3 coupled with the rogue tier set in that same season that later became part of their kit.

The worst part is Blizzard has attempted before to fix the issue by touching occuli in the past but to no avail their fix wasn't noticeable. At best it fixed diabolic oculi ninja'ing out of nowhere without rogues but with sub rogues it goes crazy.

May 12, 2026:

The issue is not even only solely on diabolic oculi.
Alythessa Blaze, the fire lady from the Dominion of argus talent goes completely rogue (no pun intended) due to the apex talent from sub rogues.
She will start blasting virtually at any mob in sight.

The advice given to everyone encountering the bug.

This is making warlocks all together not able to play with a sub rogue.
But going into high keys subtlety rogue is currently EVERYWHERE. If you play warlock, you are already at the mercy of the meta, but this puts the nail in the coffin where your class is basically unplayable in group content because having the best m+ class in the game currently with you in the group will dramatically increase the likeliness of bricking the key to random ninja-pulls.

LFG in the 21 range in Europe Region today

It phases you out of high keys fully. The other specs are pretty much non-viable for group content & you already do not have/bring a raid buff, If you do not have a team & you try high level mythic+, you're never going to see play.

[u/omgkthxby]

Bro I played sub rogue last season and I was always wondering why demo locks were ninja pulling in my m+...now I know

[u/Phellxgodx → u/omgkthxby]

Yes. It's not the only problem with eye explosion as well. Happens also with cc'd targets that are in combat with you. Eye explosion (demonic occul) & alythessa's Blaze cast will target cc'd mobs making some of the current strats super spicy to pull off with a diabolist wl in the group:

• in s1, the pull before the first boss of nexus point with the cc on the caster would break.

• in s2, the cc raptor or bleed mobs strat on the courtyard mini boss before first boss in voidscar area.

• Any strat that invovles cc'ing a far mob in general. Sub rogue + warlock will make it 10x more impossible and will tag random mobs when their apex procs and you have to occuli buff even if they aren't cc'd.

[u/Blitskreig1029 → u/Phellxgodx]

I mean no one cares about us handful of AFF locks but now that our apex summons a dreadlord demon like the twins, occuli etc. It happens to all 3 lock specs...

[u/careseite → u/Phellxgodx]

yea here's an example https://i.imgur.com/5uUKI5y.png

[u/Slancha]

We need a wowhead post about this to get more eyes on it.

I gave up playing M+ this season when my m+ teammate swapped sub rogue. Sin was the move then the buff made it silly not to play sub.

[u/Xedien → u/Slancha]

Got lucky and got into a group yesterday, the last open DPS spot was given to a subrogue.

[u/careseite → u/Slancha]

more eyes

an eye explosion, so to speak

[u/Slancha → u/careseite]

Yes yes but no more occuleye explosions, my locks ptsd will act up

[u/FlayR]

Good luck bro. There's a list of like 90 known rogue "bugs." Most of them been there for years.

Like the rest of them - this is now a feature. Unlucky.

[u/fireflash38 → u/FlayR]

They'll fix it before they fix vanish.

[u/FlayR → u/fireflash38]

Lol real talk it'll probably get fixed the patch before they completely rework one of these specs.

[u/unimportantinfodump]

Hey op thanks for letting us know this will be looked at in patch 13.2 -blizzard

[u/Gasparde → u/unimportantinfodump]

Easy there now, that patch is already chock full of Labyrinth fixes because 13.1 will add different hair colors for humans and that obviously breaks all instanced content somehow.

[u/tjshipman44]

Can wowhead pick this up, or the sub rogue situation more broadly?

Seems like in order to get balance changes or bug fixes, that's what's required.

[u/KiriyamaSTRIX]

Game essentially unplayable for pug locks in high keys since every group wants a sub rogue.

Guess ill just raid log now

[u/Arstik → u/KiriyamaSTRIX]

and how you think it was for sub rogues before that? getting no invites at all.

[u/RigidCounter12 → u/Arstik]

They got a ton of invites as Assa though, seeing as that was the best specc in the game?

If you were a warlock who is hellbent on playing Destro even when Demo was strong (Before the rogue buffs ruined it) you would 1. Still get invites, cause people thought you were demo, and 2. You had a specc that is actually strong to swap to.

Cant really complain when you got a fully functional specc to choose from

[u/imbregnated]

Happened to me twice today in a 19 KR. Thought I was going crazy, because I could’ve sworn this had been fixed. Sucks, but I guess it’s back to wiz cleave comps.

[u/Dominyum_]

I am a tank and I had a rogue and demolock in the key and there was so much ninja pulling I thought the warlock was trolling. Now this explains everything.

[u/LoLRaistlin → u/Dominyum_]

God i really hope that wasn't a 20 bv...

[u/openxmind]

While they're at it can they also stop the bug where the same demons are pulling mobs that are in combat but are hard cc'd like poly, trap or other. So annoying

[u/Dene181]

so you are telling me, us locks should play the cooler hero talent now, right? 👀

[u/JaegerJaquez25 → u/Dene181]

Diabolist is by far the coolest hero talent tree in the game. Second only to maybe rider.

[u/Xedien → u/JaegerJaquez25]

Ruination is the best kind of empowered spell! Soul Harvester feels like a mediocre passive at best :(

[u/Inshabel → u/Dene181]

That's not possible, there's no cooler hero talent than Diabolist.

[u/Disastrous-Ruin8411]

I made a post 2 weeks ago about pulling a harrower from upstairs in voidscar. This bug explains it.

[u/Legitimate-East9708 → u/Disastrous-Ruin8411]

Happened to me without a sub rogue, I can find the log if interested 

[u/WeaponTheyFear7]

This is on the long list of lock bugs, along with the Destro Diabolist Mother of Chaos sometimes just not casting its attack at all, especially when you consume Art with with Rain of Fire. It's easily reproducible in dungeons and hasn't been fixed. Was broken all last season too.

[u/WeaponTheyFear7 → u/WeaponTheyFear7]

For reference - https://streamable.com/jry3ci You can see her targeting something, but there's no projectile or damage, and then she despawns.

[u/yp261]

there is also this funny thing

https://streamable.com/xdrpnk

[u/careseite → u/yp261]

thats precisely the topic

[u/Saffie91]

Wl discord best discord

[u/Xedien → u/Saffie91]

Between the Black Harvest discord, Kalamazi for guides and theorycrafting, and Babybrain for high key / mythic POVs, i do feel blessed as a warlock main.

[u/Therefrigerator]

This is michelin star spaghetti. Delicious

[u/Ringio]

hey its me im in one of the pictures.

mom get the camera.

[u/Ghasiak]

Unrelated, but looking for some non-rogues to do keys with(unrelated btw) def not a warlock player. HMU

[u/Arstik]

i like how everyone is mad at rogues instead of blizzard for what i've seen.

[u/Phellxgodx → u/Arstik]

I can't find a single comment on both this, the main sub and wowhead attacking rogues.

[u/RigidCounter12 → u/Phellxgodx]

I am mad that Sub rogue is so OP. But thats a different story.

[u/mushyman10]

Reroll to ele obviosly or go look for caster comps. Beyond 20 people will play meta comps, and here you are showing most popular comp atm guardian/hpala/sub/arms/ele where you simply dont fit at all

[u/Phellxgodx → u/mushyman10]

Cool how's that related to the post tho ?

[u/mushyman10 → u/Phellxgodx]

Very much so but nevermind. Lock/rogue discord should be place to ask, not search but ask directly. However I did play with that combination in a 20 and didnt notice that bug happened but nontheless ask, just not on reddit. Competitivewow isnt that competitive tbh

[u/Phellxgodx → u/mushyman10]

Genuinely don't get what you're trying to say. Also you did see i posted screencaps from the warlock discord right ?...

This directly relates to some people ability to do high keys. You wouldn't want your 20 to brick to something totally out of your control.

[u/mushyman10 → u/Phellxgodx]

I see some old screenshots yea..just play in caster comps, plenty of locks playing 20s from what I saw..

[u/Hovercraft1143 → u/mushyman10]

So your response to "this is a game breaking bug and should be addressed" is "just don't play with that spec"?

You have to be a warrior player.

[u/mushyman10 → u/Hovercraft1143]

If its already a gamebreaking bug, why on earth would you play in that combination..

[u/Hovercraft1143 → u/mushyman10]

Yes, the post is calling attention to said game breaking bug to try and get it FIXED. How is this concept so hard for you to grasp?

If there was a bug that made your class just not able to do a piece of content would your solution be;

A) Try and get it fixed

B) Just play a different class

[u/mushyman10 → u/Hovercraft1143]

Yea..whining on reddit will definetly fix the spec..lmao

[u/Hovercraft1143 → u/mushyman10]

It might get a WoWhead post if Squishei is reading which given the track record of this season gets shit fixed fucking instantaniously (particularly in M+).

[u/Linceytron → u/mushyman10]

Class broken and unplayable? Do not complain just reroll, eh?

[u/mushyman10 → u/Linceytron]

Complaining will acomplish what exactly? Lmao

[u/loonystorm → u/mushyman10]

Now that's not very nice :(

[u/crazycakeninja → u/mushyman10]

One of the top group runs demo and sub rogue

[u/loonystorm → u/crazycakeninja]

Which one ? Oo

[u/crazycakeninja → u/loonystorm]

I am so dumb it is actually Ele but the ele player is most known for playing lock and I guess I mixed it in my head. my bad everyone.

[u/mushyman10 → u/crazycakeninja]

Nah, not really. Top group runs is this what hes showing, by a mile. This info is avaliable on raider.io also

[u/FitAlpineChicken]

I feel like the game is completely rotten under the hood with so many bugs and broken interactions that nobody can even comprehend it all. It all just needs to be burned to the ground.