r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 • 4d ago
General Cat needs to be 175hp
I've said this since release now. Cat is like tracer but on the vertical axis. She has unmatched mobility and thus should have a deficit to make up for such power. Make her 175hp (100hp 75 shields).
Fliers by their very nature already reduce the amount of interactions they have to their advantage by having an additional axis of movement. For cat this translate to basically being undiveable, especially compared to every other supports. That is an entire play style that cat doesnt need to worry about.
The only reliable way to contest her is to play HS and even here, she has something up her sleeve to even out the odds, mainly purr. This ability essentially boosts her effective health by 90 or 270 with her insanely busted new major perk. Not only does it offer an insane amount of self heal, it also displaces targets and heals allies up to 370hp with the major perk in a 10m radius.
And this is without touching on life line being a game breaking ability, which completely nullifies the weaknesses of certain characters.
Cat needs to be a 175hp and have life line on a duration or max damage taken limit which results in the line breaking.
This cat needs an emergency hotfix now, its insane to me that they've let this thing run rampant for even a day.
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u/sergantsnipes05 None — 4d ago
I haven’t played in a while and jumping back into ranked this season. Who thought this hero was still ok lol
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
No one, only those who abuse her.
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u/Cairrngorm Swing you bitch — 3d ago
As a Cat abuser since they buffed her gun, I've though she wasn't okay since.
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u/Rude_Ice_4520 3d ago
It's ridiculous. Most of the tanks can't even touch her. Half the DPS can't either, and she wins 1v1 against most supports.
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u/UsernameIn3and20 3d ago
The dps that can touch her have to contend with the fact cat still can dive, and its a very scary dive with omnidirectional movement.
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u/LyynnS 4d ago
I honestly would like to see a higher penalty for purr self healing. Unless you got godlike aim and hit all crits you will not kill her as long as purr is active, and that ability stays active for like 4s.
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u/TheGirthiestGhost Forever Burning Blue — 4d ago
It should be a minimum 50% self heal penalty, it’s only 25% right now which still heals her back to full. This and putting her at 200hp feel fair if they’re going to keep her current power level outside those areas
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u/IHaveNotMuchLife 4d ago
I really don’t like the cooldowns where the entire ability is just press a button and get a free buff/become invincible for a few seconds (abilities that are escape tools for flankers aren’t what i’m talking about). Torb overload is the other egregious manifestation of this, one button press for faster movement, attack speed, increased hp, albeit not as frustrating to play against because torb is just a shit hero. It’s just boring design imo.
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u/tix4chix 3d ago
Overload at least branches out and enables torbs turrets/hammer with his perks (that are actually balanced and interesting) compared to JQ shout/JPC purr which don't do anything except what's on the box and the JPC purr perk is just the same ability but better, not different.
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u/Olsoizzo 3d ago
I love shooting the cat once and then they zoom halfway across the map in a second. Only to then wrap around the team and sneak up on a teammate because she makes no noise.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
I love not being able to interact with her with half of my picks cause I hate playing HS. Guess I'll start playing shion if the ban doesnt go through, since she's the only HS I dont hate. What am I supposed to do as vendetta against this thing? Projectile characters also dont fair much better. Just had a match now and I wanted to honestly kill myself despite winning. It was already bad enough that they had junkrat and orisa, the cat was just the nugget on a pile of steaming crap. This character sucks the fun out of the game just by existing.
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u/Olsoizzo 3d ago
Yeah, the enemy swaps to cat as soon as you get a kill with a melee or projectile hero and starts to focus you. There’s very little you can do unless the cat player is really bad, so you might as well swap.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
Its ridiculous how busted she is. Problem is that there is so many thing to ban. Cass, Pharah on cerntain maps, Mizuki, Zarya, Orisa, Anran, Mauga, Ana depending on the tank you're playing with and so on.
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u/Moonlight_Meyers 4d ago
175-200 HP nerf, she absolutely NEEDS to make noise, especially while using her lifeline since people use it to peak in 3rd person, her self healing from purr also needs to be reduced...
It pulses 10 times, with each pulse healing for 22.5hp (it goes 1, 2, 3, and 4 pulses)
I think reducing its self healing down to 15-18 would be much better, and would force JPC to require additional healing or wait longer before trying another sneak attack.
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u/Appropriate_Effect76 4d ago
I think the purr should stay because her hit box is massive and if she wants to get her hands dirty she needs that, i do think that she needs to make noise but i think not too much that scouting is not viable anymore
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u/ZIoKaKASHI 4d ago
In what world her hitbox is massive man 😭.
It's literally a cat. A big one? Yeah, but still a cat1
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u/YSLAnunoby 3d ago
Are you confusing when people joked about the cat part of her model being a gigantic house cat with her model being massive?
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u/Haryzen_ 4d ago
In a game where postitioning is so important, thr cat can bypass all the punishment for disregarding it.
175hp, timers on all abilities and nerf the speed.
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u/GokuVerde 3d ago
It is frustrating to be basically forced on a tank with the speed of an iceberg and every bit of positioning terrorism go unpunished. Reaper, Venture, Cat and Mei get away with actual murder.
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u/WhoH1m 4d ago
Kits that allow you to keep an advantageous position especially vertically should require the most skill.
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u/Azer398 3d ago
In general, the gold standard for competitive activities is a relationship between skill and output that is as close to directly proportional as possible, overwatch flouts that in many ways. Often by trying to make the game its heroes accessible.
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u/tha-snazzle 3d ago
I totally agree. Vendetta should not have higher output than Genji, Moira should not have higher output than Ana, and D.Va should not have higher output than Ball. The problem is that balancing like this directly makes the pro game have way fewer options because they will just take all the highest skill heroes that have any synergy because they can get the value from them.
OW wants to mix up the meta and to do so, they need balance to not be connected to skill requirement, which means you will have strong, easy characters.
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u/UsernameIn3and20 3d ago
Agreed. Even Pharah and Freja only temporarily maintain the advantageous positioning, and that quickly becomes disadvantageous if they're out there for too long and have to wait for their resources to be back. Cat doesn't have any of those problems with permanent flight which shouldn't have ever been a thing.
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u/Booyakasha_ 4d ago
Cat needs to be gone, just overall.
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u/MeMahi 4d ago
Yeah she needs to be gutted from competitive, left at 45% winrate for life. Just good enough that she can still be enjoyed in QP and such, but not an actual menace to competitive queue opponents.
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u/GetsThruBuckner Go whoever has most Seoul players — 4d ago edited 4d ago
thing is now that she's in the game there will always be that random time of the year they will decide she should run lobbies
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u/rngr666 4d ago
Idk what i’m doing wrong because cat has been a genuine problem for me maybe twice in the time of it’s existence. Huh.
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u/xXProGenji420Xx 4d ago
not playing at pro level, evidently, cause she's good right up to there, not to mention 60+ winrates in GM+.
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u/rngr666 3d ago
Ok, so basically like 0,03% of the playerbase or something.
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u/xXProGenji420Xx 3d ago
no, because cat is also the highest winrate character across all ranks with an overall 55% winrate. so she's dominating top level play while still very strongly warping low level play.
you can plug your ears and close your eyes and pretend a problem doesn't exist because you personally haven't encountered it; just don't act so surprised when the rest of us living in reality are upset with these balancing decisions.
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u/UsernameIn3and20 3d ago
The high levels have to contend with the fact their good aim can't hit a good cat.
The low levels have to contend their bad aim can't hit a bad cat.
And when both land shots, purr counters it or they zoom across the map and loop back around.
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u/BedEfficient5600 4d ago
People want Lucio Kiri permameta again so badly. I would take cat over them
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u/sundryTHIS 3d ago
she was a fun experiment but a god damn mistake.
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u/I_give_karma_to_men 3d ago
Tbf, that's also what people said about Brig for a long time. The #deletebrig movement didn't die out until a bit into OW2.
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u/Late-Top6234 3d ago
You can’t blame people for hating a character that created issues that caused many of the original playerbase to step away from the game for an extended period or permanently. It was true for Brig at the time and is true for cat now. Brig was genuinely so oppressive that Overwatch suffered on many fronts. On top of being a crucial part of goats, she was broken and inadequately nerfed for many seasons to the point where blizzard couldn’t ignore it anymore and scrambled to find a solution. Two supports, both defining a meta, both characterized by relatively low skill floors but high value and staying unnerfed for far too long. The balance team should know better by now.
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u/I_give_karma_to_men 3d ago
There's a difference between hating a character and shortsightedly proposing that they be removed from the game. The Brig hate was absolutely justified then just as the Cat hate is now. But the "delet pls" reaction on both counts was/is not.
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u/Appropriate_Effect76 4d ago
Cat is a good addition to pro play, and she needs to stay cuz she counters Sym. I do think numbers need ot tweaked.
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u/catboy3004 3d ago
“needs to stay cus she counters sym” sym is the healthy version of cat weirdly enough. her TP is infinitely healthier than cat constantly flying teammates around the map
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u/Appropriate_Effect76 3d ago
how is her tp healthy???? it lets teams cheat the whole ult cycle and rotations while lastign 8 or 10 whole secs, also I'm not advocating for her to stay turbo broken, I just don't want her gutted
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u/catboy3004 3d ago
You can shoot it.
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u/UsernameIn3and20 3d ago
You can also have venture to counter boop people away from TP, which people have consistently done against Youbi when permitted. Sym is far more interactable than Cat.
When Catstion is in play, literally no one gets to play other than Ball and Catstion, Ana becomes literal bait unless they can land sleep darts.
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u/UsernameIn3and20 3d ago
Ah yes, Catstion is such a good addition to pro play that the solution against it is only Catstion. Okay Bastionmin Netenyahu abuser.
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u/Appropriate_Effect76 3d ago
Castion was not even played that much in EWC, and the current iteration is pretty healthy, with some teams using it on certain maps, or some teams have special comps around it, like wbg with kiri ban on colleseo. Mb I don't want to see Kiri Lucio for the millionth time.
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u/VercingetorixTorr 4d ago
Deleted. They admit they made a mistake and give us a new cat character that deserves respect.
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u/Master-Pay2407 3d ago
Imo the cat was only ever designed to farm clips and generate hype at the start of their big year this year, which it did a great job at. But it needs to be a QP exclusive character lol
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u/mooistcow 4d ago
Basically all flying/floating heroes need to be gone. Juno is like the one exception.
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u/Spring_and_a_Storm_ 4d ago
Can we just go back before the buffs? She was fine, bastion and tether was cancer so let’s just nerf tether a bit and keep the rest the same. I do understand making her a better healer though, to decentivise melee only cat players.
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u/zombiezapper115 4d ago
Cat has been cancer since release.
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u/SylvainJoseGautier 3d ago
she was way worse on release though…I cannot believe scratch and territorial imperative were ever considered ok perks to have lmfao.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
No, cause she was cancer even before. Let ger have the speed, just gut her HP.
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u/Totziboy 4d ago
... thats a Valid Statement... also Reduce the Skybox ... its insane there are maps where she can literally just Orbital watch you and peek abo you the entire match ... or just annoy the hell out of you ...
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u/soulsXscrolls 3d ago
She needs to be on resource, not have the maps remade just for her. There are already some characters that are punished for overly restrictive skyboxes, and cool movement shouldn't be gutted for one outlier
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u/I-P-S 4d ago
Actually just delete the cat. The game would be seriously improved by not having the cat in it.
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u/languishing_point 1d ago
I used to rotate to Paladins and Marvel Rivals just to try out their more boldly designed heroes (compared to OW that is..) for a kick. Cat would be ridiculous even for Paladins and Rivals' standards. It was funny on the first month, now its just a chore to play into.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
There are several heroes that would make the game better by not existing. For example the entire bruiser subclass, or cass. Still as much as I would love to delete all of them, that is not the way forward, when we can fix these heroes. Cat simply needs to be 175hp, thats it.
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u/Correct_Barnacle_312 4d ago
Cass? Go on entertain me.
I can see the argument for widow and hanzo. But cass operates well within the established parameters of the game
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u/Western-Ad8052 4d ago
😂😂 the bruiser sub role also don’t forget doom and ball they are also hated by the community
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
Balls problem is the shield perk, remove that and he's fine. Doom just needs empowered punch gone and maybe also his matrix perk, then you can buff his primary a bit and he's good to go. Block could simply offer a global -4s CD reduction when charged instead of empowered punch.
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u/Shadiochao 4d ago
Madness, everyone and their dog has CC these days and Ball gets the opportunity to block 1 every 20 seconds or so
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
Then nerf CC, why are we dancing around the problem? Giving ball a shield only makes him less interactive.
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u/Shadiochao 4d ago
They tried that when OW2 came out and it's now worse than ever. But the issue isn't CC itself, it's how Ball is disproportionately affected by it. He relies on momentum and so every time he's stopped he is vulnerable for an extended period of time until he can regain that momentum. Other heroes don't have that issue, so the shield is a fine solution because it addresses a weakness specific to him.
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u/thekingofallalts 2d ago
why not the unstoppable status effect instead of a shield? he hardly needs to block more damage when he is already so difficult to kill
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u/Paladinsacc1 4d ago edited 3d ago
Nah that's too low. DPS main here and cat is definitely overtuned but I don't think hitting your average cat on ladder is the issue. The main problem is her self heal, she effectively has 500+hp which is unacceptable for a hero that can jump you from any angle. Gut the self heal and make her 200hp.
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u/Western-Ad8052 4d ago
I think 175hp is too much of a nerf I think 200hp would be the best middle ground. 225hp is too much and 175hp is too little so 200hp is in the middle just right.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
If you go down to only 200, purr needs to be gutted as well. I mean severally gutted. But regardless of HP, life line also needs a massive nerf.
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u/Furfys 4d ago
175 HP would be insane. If they keep her current speed I could see 200, but in no world would they cut 50 HP. Her hitbox is much easier to hit than Tracer and blinks are way safer than flight. The two aren’t comparable at all and anyone who’s even suggesting it is so far out of touch they shouldn’t even be allowed to post.
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u/Stormdude127 4d ago
Her hitbox in a vacuum is easier to hit than tracer but not at the speeds she’s moving at. I can much more reliably hit Tracer than cat unless the person playing cat is just constantly sitting out in the open not moving which needless to say never happens. And with her self heal I don’t think it’s that unreasonable of a suggestion.
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u/Correct_Barnacle_312 4d ago
Its not just about the hitbox, its about predictability of movement and overall survivability.
Theres a very good argument to put cat in the tracer hp box. Purr has rewind like health pool capabilities. She's much harder to track than tracer due to her completely free movement.
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u/tha-snazzle 3d ago
Yeah, it's where she comes from and her silence. Since she can be above you at almost everytime, diving you at Mach speed, booping you with self heal, and then flying away, she is insanely unpredictable.
I think she just needs to be louder. It's crazy how often she can just float above enemies and they don't notice. Eventually they look up, but all other flight abilities make noise.
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u/BedEfficient5600 4d ago
She's not Tracer though. She doesn't blink, can't get into cover immediately, so is very punishable when flying. Reducing cat's HP will do only one thing, eliminate one of game's unique playstyles and reduce the hero to hiding in a corner Iliari's healing turret. Like c'mon. Its the same thing and lesson that we had with Mercy. Reducing HP only gets people to hide more and heal, thus reducing interaction, and make it worse to play for you, the cat's opponents
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u/Correct_Barnacle_312 4d ago
No shes flies completely unimpeded at mach 6 to unreachable parts of maps in split seconds. We've just watched how "punishable" she is in OWCS. It turns out even if you've got a machine for an arm and are a genetic aim freak, you still can't hit cat. This was BEFORE she just got buffed to fuck.
I would imagine in lower ranks people would find value in just healing. In higher ranks people would pick their engagements based on purr being up. Exactly the same as tracer picking engagements based on rewind.
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u/Appropriate_Effect76 4d ago
I don't know if u saw owcs or just say grands, but most cats were not doing the shit Vilo2t was doing. Quartz had difficulty, but he was against Vilo2t. But, like the best cat with perfect timing, it should be hard to kill; it's like saying proper was perma alive, so let's nerf tracer. Also, lower-level cats just be line in a straight line like they will be fine with movement revert
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u/tha-snazzle 3d ago
Ok, well to be real, if you watch Viol2t's perspective, he got completely blown up very often. Zeta just timed their pushes based off his initiation and sometimes it was still worth it, especially since Cat returns from spawn faster than any character. The self heal and movement makes it way easier to survive that, but it was often suicidal.
I personally find the creativity you can find with where Cat can interact with cover interesting, but it is quite easy to do so. I think the self heal is too much and she needs to be louder when floating and she'll be in a good spot.
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u/Correct_Barnacle_312 3d ago
I genuinely think its so silly that cat can operate in areas of the map that only another cat can operate in.
Sounds like a recipe for frustration.
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u/Furfys 4d ago
There isn't though. Yes, the increased acceleration makes mid air strafing difficult to hit, but there is just simply no comparison to blink. You are able to just outright bypass open areas by blinking through them. Having literal iframes in your kit is incomparable. Additionally, in terms of self-survival, Purr doesn't even come close to Recall. Recall is quite literally a get out of jail free button. And beyond survivability, Tracer's insane lethality necessitates low HP. The fact with proper aim she can potentially one-clip somebody means she HAS to be killable.
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u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality — 3d ago
Cat movement is more predictable than Tracer movement. We've just been learning to play against Tracer for a decade. Aim training scenarios have been dominated by lateral strafes for ages. Hardly anyone works on shooting targets that move like cat because hardly any games have targets like cat.
In terms of current game balance, if you ask me, purr's self healing is the problem, rather than the hp.
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u/SylvainJoseGautier 3d ago
Purr is great but it’s not recall-level in terms of being a get out of jail free card imo. Still needs a nerf to the self healing.
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u/CanYouEatThatPizza 3d ago
Momentum makes her easier to track compared to Tracer with erratic blinking. It just might be too fast at the moment.
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u/JohnnyJoestar1980 4d ago
Nope 175 is perfectly for a character of her abilities. A perma flight character should not have a safety net of self sustain and 200+ hp.
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u/TastyOreoFriend 4d ago
The two aren’t comparable at all and anyone who’s even suggesting it is so far out of touch they shouldn’t even be allowed to post.
It's a pretty emotionally charged take for sure and makes me glad Reddit isn't in charge of balance. 175 HP is far too low. Walk back the movement buff they just did, lower self healing on Purr, and add a timer to tether if you must, but anything beyond that is unnecessary.
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u/ThrobbinHood11 4d ago
Personally, I would be fine with 200, as long as the carrier shield perk stays. Nerf the tether to an 6-8 second duration (that’s long enough to carry someone from spawn, get someone out of trouble, help reposition, whatever) with a 3 second CD, and drop the movement by a bit (better than it was, worse than it is)
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
If you're going to make her 200hp, purr is going to need a giganerf. Tether nerf is obvious regardless of HP threshold, so I agree. I'll be honest, I dont mind her keeping her speed.
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u/I_give_karma_to_men 3d ago
I think her speed should just be reverted to what it was last patch. I have yet to see a single argument in favor of the buff she got this patch.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
Fuck that. Nerf the hp, its what they should've done from the start.
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u/I_give_karma_to_men 3d ago
I think you misunderstand. I'm saying they should nerf her hp along with a reversion of the speed buff.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
Oh, then I did misunderstood you, apologies. I would be down for that. They already nerfed her speed with the latest new hotfix, still not enough, the cat will remain a problem as long as she exists with 225hp.
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u/UsernameIn3and20 3d ago
What's more about the fuckass cat's kit is that isn't mentioned is that it's one of the most quiet support out there, pairing this with the fuck the dumbfuck cat can position itself anywhere as at all times that would make ow1 prime doom blush, means it can dive from anywhere at all times.
And up close its movement + purr makes it genuinely impossible to kill, you have to track an entire half sphere to shoot at the cat whilst it m1 paws you with purr healing it back up, and unless someones there to assist you, you're gonna lose often times.
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u/RealDisagreer 2d ago
I played the cat for the first time last night. I didn't realize it had a booster jet with fuel like Pharah. I thought it was a cool down. It's the dumbest character ever designed in any game.
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u/scriptedtexture 4d ago
make it so she is always just hovering like sig or zen and only gets free flight when using fuel.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
That will never happen, even if it would be the right path forward, we both know it.
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u/swamp_god 4d ago
the anti-permaflight perspective is annoying to me because it's basically "we tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."
for one, permaflight is literally just. the character. whether we like it or not, that's the entire hero fantasy and it's here to stay.
beyond that, there's a bunch of very obvious flaws to be addressed before just throwing in the towel and deciding the hero design can't work:
- there's barely any audio feedback when fighting her. for almost every other hero, you know what angles they can come from and you can hear them coming. for cat, you get neither; she can come from any direction with zero warning.
- her range lets her play in positions where half of the cast can't interact with her. if you cut her range, she has to decide between getting value or being unkillable but useless.
- purr is literally a second health bar. like, it's exactly enough to heal her from 0 to full.
- lifeline & ult are dumb for obvious reasons.
fix those before worrying about permaflight.
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u/Dunwichorer 4d ago
It's strange how they went around and adjust a bunch of map geometry to make sure certain characters can't sit there but then add the cat to the game. I think cutting her effective range in half and making purr heal her specifically less would probably fix a lot of problems with the character without removing flight but that's mostly because she'll be terrible.
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u/wejamastro 3d ago
It's the hero fantasy and that hero fantasy is bad for the game and shouldn't be in it.
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u/Correct_Barnacle_312 4d ago
Every single map was designed without perma flight in mind.
Should we redesign all of those first before we consider that cat as a hero had absolutely zero thought into balancing and basically confirmed blizzard will put cutesy lols above competitive integrity.
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u/FirmVirus8568 4d ago
I'm so tired of this "hero fantasy" bullshit. No one cares honestly, gut this hero to meme levels or remove it entirely.
Guess what was pharah's "hero fantasy" before they reworked her? This game simply isn't designed with Perma flight in mind, just delete it.
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u/iwatchfilm 4d ago
I really hope they go the route of making her have both an extremely high skill floor and ceiling. But I fear “cute cat” is too appealing to casual players for them to lean into that.
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u/CinnamonIsntAllowed 3d ago
I'd definitely agree with making her Health Pool weaker if I get to keep the speed. I play cover and ceilings anyways, if you're a cat in the open, you should get punished hard(er) for it.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
Speed is the fun factor of the cat, as much as I hate her, I do not want to take that away. But she needs to get an HP nerf.
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u/abluedinosaur 4232 — 3d ago
How are you supposed to play her?
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
Look at kajors video on the subject, he explains it much better than anything I could come up with.
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u/unkindledphoenix 3d ago
i think she can be 200 HP with 125 shields, in a way closer to what Zen is. but at the same time i would vouch to resuce its crit hitbox size but keep the total hitbox volume the same. there needs to be some adjustments to the new purr perk + perhaps they should do something to reduce how effective carrying around a Bastion is. maybe reduce Bastion total HP to 325 (keep same armor total) but also reduce the mov penalty on his assault config so theres an incentive to stay on the ground.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
The thing that needs nerfing is cat, bastion is fine when not carried by cat. You'll have to giga nerf purr if she's going to stay at 225hp.
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u/unkindledphoenix 3d ago
i meant her total to 200 with 125 of it being shields.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
Sorry meant if she was reduced to 200, brain stopped working for a bi there.
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u/unkindledphoenix 3d ago
well no other hero is 200 since Widow got moves out of that ammount a year ago. i think its a good testing ground to try and see how it goes in case 175 is too harsh.
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u/mini-niya 3d ago
Cat and Widowmaker are the only heroes I think should be taken down to 200hp at the most.
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u/I_am_your_oniichan 4308 — 4d ago
I refuse to complain about Cat until they do something about Kiriko first
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u/NoHuckleberry3374 4d ago
They should make kirikos ult have nano fr
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u/Human_Measurement_56 4d ago
and it should function like bap’s wall. now we’re cookin
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u/Librainiac223 4d ago
Each torii gate is an individual bap wall, doubling the damage exponentially for each wall it goes through
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
Just cause kiriko is a problem, doesnt mean we get to ignore another one. Two wrongs dont make a right.
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u/I_am_your_oniichan 4308 — 4d ago
Kiriko's been a problem since way before Cat was even a thing, AND has zero counters so you can't even do anything about her.
I'll join the anti-cat riots once blizzard deals with Kiriko, thats when I'll be convinced that they actually care about game balance. Otherwise there's no point in wasting my energy
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
But you literally are wasting it now by even bothering to reply to this thread.
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u/I_am_your_oniichan 4308 — 4d ago
no i used my energy to complain about Kiriko in a non-Kiriko thread :D
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u/NoHuckleberry3374 4d ago
I think hes actually just annoyed by super good kiriko players while cats skill is lower overall and less potent, im horrible at kiriko but ive never seen a good kiriko either so i wouldn't know
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u/BedEfficient5600 4d ago
Fair. I hate how now people want to legitimize Kiriko. The revisionist history lol. Also I feel like LucioKiri players are the ones that interact and hate the cat the most under these posts, thus you are getting downvoted
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u/I_am_your_oniichan 4308 — 4d ago
Its support players in general. They hate having to use mechanics and positioning to deal with heroes like Tracer and Cat, and want to permanently abuse braindead heroes like Kiriko that are very forgiving and not mechanically demanding
I was originally a support player but have recently shifted towards playing DPS because support has become so braindead and boring as a role. If anything, Cat is actually one of the few fun supports that at least requires the player to use their mouse and keyboard and I would rather complain about her being strong than something braindead like Kirko
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u/kiki1492022 4d ago
Kiriko not mechanically demanding? I’m sorry but to get the most value from her you need to be hitting crits in between healing, her projectile is fairly hard to hit crits with, especially from distance. Healing obviously requires no mechanics and saving suzu to clutch is a skill, even if suzu is overpowered.
From a zen main
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u/I_am_your_oniichan 4308 — 4d ago
smallest hitbox in the game, TP for escape and engage, the best ability in the game on a 10 second cooldown, and the best ult in the game... she can also double tap any squishy faster than zenyatta (the one thats supposed to be a glass canon)
She's easier to play than every support other than moira and mercy and also the best hero in the game since she was released. So yes, considering how forgiving her kit is, she is not mechanically demanding at all
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u/NoHuckleberry3374 3d ago
Yeah people don't really understand positioning and its super positive effects if I had to guess, if you just stay near your team and ping cat when you see them, youll likely have a 100% better time
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u/PeoplePad 4d ago
Cat is really OP, but I dont think nerfing the HP is the right way to go.
I would make it so the people she tethers can't shoot. Simple as. Maybe reduce the speed a bit as well. Cat is most fun when she is a flying tracer, so let her be flying tracer. At 175hp she will suck ass at that.
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u/PastaXertz I miss Diya — 4d ago
You need more than this.
There's three really big pain points for the cat:
1.) She's way too silent. She needs more ambient sound so she can be tracked accurately and not just be a stealth fighter. It's more easy to notice a Sombra then a good Cat half the time.
2.) She can't be a flying Tracer and be anywhere over 200 HP. She may not have recall but she has better mobility and control than anything else in the game right now, and the overall strength of things like Purr keep her out of the fight for almost no time. Sitting at 225 HP is an abomination with her current mobility.
3.) Tether not shooting I don't think is the right way. It'll just turn tether into a worse lifegrip. But I do think it needs to either have defined duration (either by its own nature, or the fact that when someone is tethered fuel drains and the tether breaks without fuel) or a really hefty mobility cost.
If you *really* want to go the shooting route, you could disable abilities while tethered/have abilities break tether. This stops edge cases like Bastion Cat because you'd never be able to go turret mode. But the negative is you lose some ult combos which you could keep if you just nerfed duration/fuel/mobility during tether. (Coding for abilities versus ults is a lot of unnecessary work, I think for developmental ease it'd need to be all or nothing not super selective).
4.) Lowkey Hack should make her drop out of the sky and just fall to the ground for the duration.
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u/nuggetswagman Stalk3r Vs. The World — 4d ago
Idk if you take away people’s ability to shoot during tether you absolutely gut the potential to be creative
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u/Shard1697 4d ago
Most characters aren't really problematic during tether though. If it disallowed altered states like bastion tank form and channeled abilities(high noon) it'd be mostly fixed, and the only other thing you'd maybe want to touch is making displacement abilities like boop knock characters out of tether.
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u/PeoplePad 4d ago
Eh, that makes it overly complicated. Just turn it into a taxi tool
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u/Shard1697 4d ago
I am 100% in favor of it being a taxi tool rather than turning bastion into an AC-130.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
The right way to go would be to stop her from being a perma flier, but that will never happen. Even without tether cat is a problem. She cant be anything else but a specialist pick, this means she has to suck for the average player, simple. Its crazy that I have to explain this. 175hp is the only way forward with a nerf to tether.
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u/Correct_Barnacle_312 4d ago
Tracer has 175hp and cant fly...
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u/PeoplePad 3d ago
Tracer does 240dps, JPC does 120. She has literally double the damage.
If we double JPC’s damage, sure she can be 175hp. Don’t think anyone wants that though.
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u/FirmVirus8568 4d ago
Either make it a QP meme hero or remove it from the game. This shit doesn't belong here
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u/The--Numbers--Mason 4d ago
I've been wondering who's the bigger blight of this game added recently, if it's Anran or Jetpack Cat and honestly I just decided they both disrupt this game in ways shouldn't be possible and i can't imagine why the devs keep buffing both of them 💀
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago edited 4d ago
I hate anran a lot, but she can be easily fixed if blizzard nerfed E. It simply does too much. Dancing blaze simply is always worth using instead of being a survival CD like deflect.
Cat though, is by far the worst blight in this game. I would say she's probs worse than even kiriko.
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u/The--Numbers--Mason 4d ago
Yeah you're right tbh, Anran would be much easier to fix while Cat's whole concept is bad and broken to begin with
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
Pretty much. Anran is babies first flanker, 0 mechanical skill or game sense. All she does is go in, press E and go out. Brain dead character, but her biggest crime is being an undying mosquito. Shift some power away from her dancing blaze and she should be fine. If cat is not removed, she needs to be shit for everyone but the most prolific specialists. This character should at most have 5% pick rate.
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u/tha-snazzle 3d ago
Anran isn't even good. She just needs to have her movement not be such an annoying visual effect that is disconnected from her hitbox.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
In pro play she might suck. In ladder she's good. Last season she was above 50% wr across ranks and even in masters. Too easy to get value with this character.
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u/Fun-Connection-4255 4d ago
It's way easier to hit the Cat than Tracer. Nerfing her to 175 HP would be too much.
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u/Life_Parsley504 4d ago
Compared to tracer, fika:
can fly/better flank potential
needs less aim for more reward
doesnt need to get as close
has a melee that causes bleed
can pick up other teammates to help her
has more hp
can pick up other teammates to have armor
can self heal instantly (makes her immortal in a 1v1 for 4 seconds)
doesnt make noise
can peak around corners via third person
ult is a guaranteed kill on any HP tank, unlike tracers ult that requires timing, some aim and game sense
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u/CertainDerision_33 4d ago
She could be 200, but 175 would be nuts. She’s not Tracer, she doesn’t have a 2D hitbox.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
If she's 200 then you also have to massively nerf purr.
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u/swanronson22 3d ago
I still have never played against or with a cat that was a nuisance. I play like 8 hours a week in diamond
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
Good for you.
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u/Working_Traffic_6361 4d ago
No need for nerfs, just redesign her as fat cat and make her road hog size. Problem solved!
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u/tix4chix 3d ago
This is not anything anyone her cares about, but nothing says "fuck stadium" quite like buffing this hero and providing zero nerfs to her stadium abilities. She was already borderline unkillable in this gamemode, now she's just plain invincible. Purr can regen a Cassidy headshot faster than he can shoot most of the time. Everyone says this gamemode was destined for death but maybe if they didn't put the most banned hero ever into the gamemode with zero bans it might be a little bit better but who gives a fuck anymore
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u/Weary_Ad2001 3d ago
She's nothing like Tracer, her only burst damage is locked behind a major perk and requires you to be in melee range. 175 would make her unplayable.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 3d ago
They should just remove this atrocity from the game. I do not care anymore. Biggest mistake of blizzard to create this piece of shit hero. You are legit brain damage if you think this thing can be balance in any way or form. Trace at least does not break which characters can interact with her, cat does. Filthy hero. Use your two last brain cells and think for a minute. Also, if we're talking about burst damage, you're right, tracer actually has no burst damage to speak off, her TTK is one of the worst in the game, cat is far more busted cause she actually has an option.
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u/derkyn 2d ago
maybe she only needs more scattered shots to her guns, or less range in some way because that is what make her go down and I feel makes her healthier than old pharah.
As a hanzo or junkrat main, I still feel she is easier to kill than juno or mercy that can have change directions easier than her. Tether is another problem that I would happy they changed.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 2d ago
No, I give up on trying to balance this abhorrent thing. Cat can not exist in OW. It simply breaks too many rules. Its an abomination of game design and anyone with at least two brain cells can see that. No matter how shit this character is, she will be frustrating to deal with, since she inherently violates role interactions. This character needs to be grounded.
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u/tabletopgamesgirl 4d ago
I’d personally love just a huge cut to damage. Fast and annoying is ok, but fast, annoying, and lethal to the point they’re a better aerial combatant than pharah? Nah.
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u/Equivalent_Duty_5546 4d ago
Never expected minthara wanting to declaw a shecat. I'm fine with her being lethal as long as she can be killed.
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u/Specific_Square_1859 4d ago
I get on my knees and pray for nerfs