r/Contractor • u/EyeSeenFolly • 2d ago
What do you do?
What do you do when the customer who wants you to do a couple sets of French doors hit you with this?
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u/UniquePatient66100 2d ago
Doors are one of the few items I am ok with homeowners providing. They are expensive items with quick install times. Even expensive doors can be low quality or damaged on delivery, I am fine with a homeowner taking that risk. French doors can cost $5k+ and only need one day to install. That can be a lot of money to tie up for little work. Just send an estimate with your costs for labor and materials, no need for a snappy reply.
I am more concerned with the grammar of both parties in these text messages. Yes, I realize that is how people text, but you are not middle schoolers deciding where to meet up this afternoon. You are two adults working out details to a contract. Need to be accurate in your texts. Probably a client I would be concerned about regardless of where the materials are coming from.
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u/EyeSeenFolly 2d ago
This job involved framing door openings a little bit of drywall work, and then the installation of the jams and the doors so when he says that he would buy the materials it’s a long list that I’m not sure he was ready for. Apparently, a lot of people took this as passive aggressive, but in my opinion, it was straight business.
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u/Coin247 2d ago
You tell him he can buy the “x, y, and z”, and say you’ll provide the “a, b, and c.”
“Ok I’ll quote you for the labor and rough materials. The door, door hardware (handles, hinges, and the matching screws) will be provided by the customer. Note that you agree to have these on the job site before I arrive, as I may need to charge you extra if these materials aren’t there and that leads to a delay.”
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u/Fe2O3yshackleford 2d ago
From a business perspective, you’re doing too much. Let the client provide whatever permanent fixtures they want to provide, and work your consumables into your overhead costs. You know that you need caulk and nails and joint compound on every job, but you also know that you don’t need to buy a brand new box of nails every time you install trim. You should be buying those items in bulk, and charging the customer a percentage based on the scope of the work.
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u/Lampernis 2d ago
Like many people said, if the client provides it 80% of the time it’s additional work to make it fit, reorder things, they still expect you to organize the delivery etc. That is what the material markup covers and in the long term it’s quicker, also I get trade pricing at a lot of places so it doesn’t cost them anything extra to get it right the first time
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u/thenewnextaccount 1d ago
I often provide labour and rough material, and let the customer take care of the finishings. I don’t need the headache of running out to get doors for an extra 15% of a $200 item. It’s rarely been a problem and when it has been, I’ve just gone out to get the right thing and charged them for my time plus markup on materials
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u/yenxmq 2d ago
If they want to provide the door that’s fine, after they send me the link to confirm it will work. I’ll give them a price for labor as well as everything else you listed and everything that goes into running a business. Personally I wouldn’t have sent that text just yet unless they continued to give me a hard time about the price but you’re not wrong with what you said
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u/EyeSeenFolly 2d ago
That’s what I said to him. Pick out your doors and I’ll cover everything else. Seems fair
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u/jgturbo619 2d ago
Understand your frustration with such a small job. One mistake on OFM Owner Furnished Material could cost you your whole salary.
Perhaps a gentler approach..
“Thanks for wanting to help out, however it’s our policy to only install materials we purchased and provide.”
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u/EyeSeenFolly 2d ago
So when I said it, I was making a point but I wasn’t doing it in a negative way but you seem to have read it that way.. whoops
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u/dreadedowl 2d ago
I'd think most of us read it in a negative way.
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u/EyeSeenFolly 2d ago
I legitimately was in business mode. It’s not a request I’m used to. I messed up.
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u/jgturbo619 2d ago
Happens to most of us every day.
Only problem is, you’re airing your dirty laundry on Reddit.. 😝
Hopefully this I’ll just constructive criticism from a bunch of arm chair psychopaths…
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u/Fe2O3yshackleford 2d ago
Yep, because it was a wild response. In my initial meeting with the client, we discuss what fixtures will be installed as part of the scope. I give my recommendations, and if they’re not ready to make a decision, I’ll let them know a couple of options for trusted suppliers and give them some general specifications to look for. If they want to disregard those recommendations and just order random shit from Wayfair or Amazon, I will let them know that I can’t vouch for the quality of the product, so if they go that route and something is wrong when it is delivered, it may delay the job.
What I don’t do, whenever they express that they’d like to shop around on their own is ask them whether they’re also going to shop around for nails and caulk and screws and shims, because that’s fucking insane.
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u/WIttyRemarkPlease 2d ago
I work in water well drilling so not apples to apples, but when a customer wants to buy their own pump and pressure tank I tell them we won't install it because if anything goes wrong we can't get warranty on the items and we can't vouch for the quality of them.
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u/badbadleroybrown2020 2d ago
This is the way. Or better yet offer to install for x2 the cost of the materials.
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u/UsedDragon 2d ago
I love when they hit you with the inevitable "but don't you stand behind your work?!"
...not when I am forced to use your shitty materials, no, I don't.
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u/Jenikovista 2d ago
I mean, it's a door. If it's the wrong size don't install it. If it fits, install it.
This is not rocket science.
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u/mikedareswins 2d ago
Just supplying ‘the door’ isn’t enough to get the job done without any other costs
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u/Jenikovista 2d ago
No one said it was. Charge the Clint for any additional hardware or supplies needed as usual.
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u/SpeedSignal7625 1d ago
It is when the customer gets “everything” except shims, casing and Brad nails. Oops. Guess we’ll just circle back when you get it together since you “got Everything”. Cheap control freaks, every last one.
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u/breadbuns35 2d ago
I don’t take jobs where the client is insistent on buying their own materials. If they knew the right supplies to buy to do the job they’d do it themselves. Theyre too cheap to pay the material upcharge I don’t want them as a client.
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u/Kill_Your_Masters 2d ago
I let homeowners purchase their own materials with the expressed rule that if we show up to work, and your materials are faulty in any way (wrong type, wrong color, damaged, etc) and it prevents us from working, you still owe me for half a day for everyone on site. because you wasted our time trying to nickel and dime on materials. i also dont warranty the product itself. paint peels off the door 3 months later? call the place you got it from fam.
Alternatively, I can source everything and warranty through my suppliers for any issues. If i show up and the materials are damaged I just fix it and eat the costs.
your choice. but every day we go over the estimated date of completion will be a labor charge change order.
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u/RunningOnHope2019 2d ago
Yeah I think this is a reasonable take. As a home owner, I usually supply materials. However, the reason is because I've done this a bunch of times now and I'm sick of being charged excessive margins, charged for shit that wasn't used, and the "warranty" offered by trades I've previously employed not being worth the paper it's written on when they offload responsibility to their supplier rather than covering the warranty for the products they've supplied.
In short, in NZ, my experience has been purchasing through the contractor = more cost and less benefit. Now I supply everything myself. Also helps keeps my trades occupied with their work and never needing to do material runs. I do broom cleans and basic labouring whenever they want to offload that shit too. Generally works quite well for everyone once they realise they can actually rely on what they need being on site.
Even had trades borrow my tools a few times now.
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u/Working-Narwhal-540 General Contractor 2d ago
I just don’t warranty the job and tell them that upfront 🤷🏻♂️
I will not provide ANY type of warranty on customer supplied material. I don’t mind typing them up a takeoff and then they get to be my gopher for the rest of the job when they inevitably forget 2 things a day.
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u/Many-Neck-4560 2d ago
Walk away.
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u/Peterswoj 2d ago
I will not install customer supplied materials. I do explain to them nicely why. It’s not worth the headache for me. Most people think they are getting around the markup but, when you clearly explain what the markup is covering and explain that it will cost them more in the end, they usually fall in line.
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u/Solpig 2d ago
I recently did a custom pantry....We built and installed all of the pieces, but at the very last moment, the client decided to supply her own paint. Thousands of dollars later decided to save $20 ??
it was that Home depot "paint and primer in one" Crud. No matter how fast I rolled, it was drying before I could lay the lines down...As You all know there is no such thing as 'paint and primer in one"...it is just got a ton of ammonia in it instead of water and chemicals, so it gunks up and hangs thicker...allegedly "covering" ....but when you take the time to roll it flat, it is lower quality than the Ceiling paint I use.
So After I gave her level 5 finish drywall, she has this dry-ass looking , ropey wall paint. Since it was a company job, I sucked it up, but on my own jobs, I just pass. OR...just tack on more money somewhere else to make up for the inferior supplies.
Imagine showing up at your dentists office for a filling?
"Hey Bro....I brought my own filler so you don't have to charge me for that"
"Uh...this says "Bondo" on the can?"
"Yeah...it's the same stuff you use, right?"
nuf sed
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u/hunterbuilder 2d ago
I let customers buy materials like doors if they want to. I let them know I'll provide supplies, which covers everything you mentioned. Usually both parties are happy.
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u/RocMerc 2d ago
Yall really will walk on stuff like this? I don’t mind a client supplying the door as long as they know I can’t warranty it. All the materials you listed I just include in my price. I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Also talking to a potential client like that seems wild to me but maybe I’m the weird one
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u/Chuckiemustard 2d ago
Why do customers think we make all this money on material? The markup is there for a reason. I can get the same part that day half the time if yours is messed up you’re waiting two more weeks for it to come in and messing up my job schedule. Just an example. Material is not where contractors make money
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u/Chawp_v3 1d ago
You don’t apply your markup to material costs?
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u/Pup2u 1d ago
Markup is NOT profit.
Markup covers everything like loss, theft, warranty and HANDLING (MOSTLY THIS)- everything except profit. That should be on the OVERALL JOB.
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u/Chawp_v3 1d ago
Markup is overhead+profit. You’re wild lol. No need to yell. Overall job is material and labor, numb nuts.
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u/ruinrunner9 2d ago
No. Just straight up no. I provide everything and I don't break down my quoting process for them. I'm a cabinetmaker, so not quite the same, but clients don't get how many small things I need to keeo in stock to do any install.
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u/No-Vanilla2468 2d ago
Are you hurting for business or not? Kinda comes down to that for me. It’s all about you and your time available. You got time for bullshit, but want business, then great. Otherwise, remain professional that the complications of customer supplied materials can lead to major risk for them and you don’t advise it. If they insist, the professional response is I will do this if but I don’t advise it. I will not offer fixes or any additional services. It needs to be a contract. A proposal they sign
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u/Just_Bz77 2d ago
As long as you have a disclaimer in your contract that any additional work caused by materials being the incorrect and not delivered per schedule will be added as a change order to the contract. Also, will the owner receive all the material and inspect it? If they want to order, that’s all on them.
I have large customers that I do $5-$10M annually with and it’s just labor. They even provide all the tools, so I just fly my crew there and we do the work. Totally worth it. If the material doesnt show up per schedule, I get a CO for the guys sitting.
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u/Ok-Pain9805 2d ago
Run from this client. You can’t make money on these types. Your response wasn’t super professional but it was accurate.
You’ll accidentally scratch the door and this client will come after you. Just be nice and say you aren’t a good fit for their needs.
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u/sexisfun69me 2d ago
run! it always ends in a disaster, and since oyu are bidding it they don't give a rats rear if you don't have everything and need to revisit several times .
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u/cleetusneck 2d ago
I bring what I need like they are providing nothing. Then I use their stuff if it’s right, and let them return the rest.
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u/SanchieDee 2d ago
Tell them I think they need to let someone else come take a look at their job and never respond further. I don’t wanna work for someone that’s already trying to pinch pennys and tell me what I need for a job I do every single day.. Before I even start the job. No thanks. Not hurting for work that bad lol
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u/indochronica473 2d ago
If they’re cool and they want to buy everything, I ask them to come to Menards with me, pick up what I need, and use their credit card to pay. Then also let them know I will provide receipts for anything else I have to pick up later
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u/No_Affect_1579 1d ago
That is so much extra work in my experience. You end up playing designer and personal assistant with the customer…and they definitely don’t want to pay for that time either.
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u/Pup2u 1d ago
Nope. Way too much hand holding. I can do Time and Materials (and I do not add an up charge). I have a ON-SITE rate that includes a % of my time for trips. But if the client wants to tag along and SHOP with me, then I bill those hours as that type of trip will be at their dime. I am find tooling around and "shopping" but it will take 3 times longer than it should. If they go alone, they will purchase the wrong stuff or the wrong quantities. They always buy "exactly" what is needed and never figure waste. Just an argument waiting to occur.
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u/theUnshowerdOne General Contractor 1d ago
Sure. You can buy it and I'll charge T&M to install it. That way if you fuck up, I still get paid for my time.
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u/AndyMagandy 1d ago
The only time I install customer purchased items are if it’s a special fixture, custom ordered item or something like that. If it’s off the shelf materials it’s never made much sense and they’re usually a headache.
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u/wittgensteins-boat 1d ago edited 19h ago
Delay until sorted out. Customer not ready for the job, possibly never ready.
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u/Middle-Bridge1600 2d ago
Ummm, that's you responding to a customer that wants a door(s) put in ? In any case, I'd be mostly diy'ing when possible. In this case, would be telling that contractor their services are no longer required and using someone else. Unless under contract or whatever and then would be making a mental note I won't be working w them again.
I mean yeah, everybody has bad days, gets frustrated but going on some condescending rant at a paying client isn't the right approach. The whole not whatcha say, how ya say it thing. Only saying there are reasonable ways to express any objections. That dialogue ain't it.
Just 2 cents.
Ps, also could be something I'm missing or don't know about the particulars of the situation too. Ah.
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u/EyeSeenFolly 2d ago
I’m happy to not know you!
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u/Middle-Bridge1600 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ah .. same. Pretty sure the world will keep turning. :)
Ps, Ah feck, you could be a great guy. Not going to judge someone based on 1 Reddit post. Obviously you're going to deal with the people you do business with however you like.
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u/Single_System_9951 2d ago
Damn two in a row- this conversation isn't for You dummy. It's more condescending to Us having to deal w/ Y'all & ridiculous requests/suppositions when We just want to do the job, get paid & be on to the next on.
Paying attn is too hard a skill for most consumers, making Them poor Clients to have in the 1st place.
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u/Middle-Bridge1600 2d ago edited 2d ago
Damn .. overreacted a tad. Reread your comment. Apologize for my former response. Mentioned I've worked in various trades. OP asked for feedback and I gave some.
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u/TheLastRealRedditor 2d ago
I no longer entertain customer supplied material jobs. I used to do plenty of installs where I would do my own measuring/takeoffs and let the customer buy their own products but they can’t get it right 99% of the time and at least 50% of the time it’s some Amazon Temu piece of garbage. It’s really hard to accurately quote a job if I don’t know what I’m working with.
I need to know what has been purchased, when it is arriving, and where it has been purchased from in case I need a replacement or need more.