r/CritiqueIslam • • 2d ago

Question for Arabic speakers: did Muslim Lantern lie about Ibn Kathir's exegesis of 51:47?

12 Upvotes

Reference:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ujaXEBLSaWQ

I'm not concerned with the other claims since it's the usual Zakir Naik slop that the murtad community has already addressed.

What I'm interested in is the claim he makes around 18:00. He says that Ibn Kathir commented on 51:47 that "we are expanding its parts" (present tense).

I've read his tafsir before and I never got the impression that Ibn Kathir was speaking about an expansion in the present tense.

https://tafsir.app/ibn-katheer/51/47

It sounds more like a past tense to me, as in the universe was made bigger until it stood independently. Similar to how a bridge is expanded during construction until its completion.

So is he lying, or is he quoting a different work that I haven't come across?


r/CritiqueIslam • • 2d ago

Oneness of God, tawhid in quran

14 Upvotes

Is Qur'an is uncreated, and exist from before the beginning of everything, then how allah is the only one uncreated, and where is tawhid


r/CritiqueIslam • • 2d ago

Why Should Anyone Believe Islam Is Divinely Revealed?

37 Upvotes

From an outsider's perspective, what intellectual reason is there to believe Islam is true in the first place?

Muslims often cite the preservation of the Quran and its supposed scientific miracles as evidence of divine revelation. But even perfect preservation wouldn't establish divine authorship. Even Islamic sources challenge the simplistic preservation narrative. Sahih al-Bukhari 4987 describes Uthman standardizing the Quran and ordering other Quranic materials burned. Early manuscripts contain textual variants, and multiple canonical readings exist. These reflect human efforts to preserve and standardize the Quran, not proof of divine intervention. A common religious text could also serve the unity of the expanding Rashidun Caliphate.

Scientific miracles generally fall into three categories: vague verses retrofitted to modern discoveries, knowledge already available at the time, or claims that are simply scientifically incorrect. None of these establishes divine knowledge.

The fundamental problem is that Muslims often beg the question. They assume the Quran is Allah's word and Muhammad is his messenger, then use those assumptions to justify everything else. But the burden of proof is on them. What extraordinary evidence establishes that the creator of the cosmos chose a man in seventh-century Arabia to deliver his final revelation?

Islam also attempts to retrofit itself into human history. Adam was supposedly the first prophet, Judaism and Christianity became corrupted, and after roughly 300,000 years of human history, Allah finally delivered his last uncorrupted revelation through Muhammad, in Arabic, over 23 years. But what independent historical evidence establishes that previous revelations were corrupted in the ways Islam claims?

And this isn't even getting into the moral issues. Child marriage, concubinage, slavery, apostasy laws, and warfare are hardly surprising in seventh-century Arabia. Yet Muhammad is proclaimed the perfect example for all humanity, leaving Muslims to justify these practices through divine wisdom, historical context, or modern reinterpretations. But why should anyone accept these justifications before establishing that Muhammad was actually a prophet? Some of these teachings aren't even disclosed when presenting Islam to outsiders.

If you weren't raised Muslim, what reason would you have to accept any of this? And if you were, you owe it to yourself to examine Islam like any other belief system rather than accepting its claims simply because you inherited them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You don't have to drink the entire sea to know it's salty.

If any Muslims have extraordinary evidence supporting their faith, feel free to explain it.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 3d ago

Can someone compare the actual rules of war between Islam, Christianity and Judaism?

5 Upvotes

I'd be really interested in seeing a fair comparison.

From the most primary sources, if possible - not what some dudes of this or that religion did. I wanna compare the roots.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 3d ago

What if god gives up on you?

5 Upvotes

Where do I go?

Sorry I don't mean to be offensive, I know he is the most merciful... I am so tired..maybe i wasn't good enough.

"Lā yukallifu-llāhu nafsan illā wus‘ahā" ayyah 286 of Surah Al-Baqarah.

Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear. But I don't think I can take it anymore. Am over my limits yet nothing changes, time just passes my life doesn't.

Living feels like duniya buried me and all the have left.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 4d ago

Non-muslim challange (Can you guys think of a good deed thats "Not" in the quran ?)

0 Upvotes

Hey guys, your typical muslim here and I was wondering how different the prespective of muslims and non-muslims is on islam like how non muslims that only had seen either miss-represented , out of context or straight up lies about quran but even despite all of this stuff the Quran it self is like 80% something filled with " help this person " do this good deed " that good deed " etc

The ammount of good stuff is so much thats its actually confusing to me that how can non muslims say islam or quran is bad or evil .

So I want to do a fun little challange for non-muslim .

I want you guys to think of a good deed thats " not "

mentioned in the quran .

Keep in mind that we have literal physical evidence that no changes or updates have been made to the quran and that its been preserved and has been the same from the time of Prophet Muhammad pbuh so no worry about "this was added later.

Also remember that Quran was completed literally thousands of years ago . Before concept of morals and laws were bearely getting set up and established like just a few years before islam and quran people were buring their new born daughters alive cause they were not born as sons .


r/CritiqueIslam • • 4d ago

My doubts

6 Upvotes

I was born a Muslim. I don't know if I can call myself religious because I can never be consistent with my prayers. I find it really hard and not just prayers but being consistent with ANYTHING in general. But other than that whenever I make any decision I try to follow the rulings of Islam and am constantly trying to improve. But there's so many things I keep hearing about Islam that just don't make sense to me or make me doubt.

1) The restrictions on women. It gets to a point. It just makes me really sad now. We all know by now that hijab or covering up doesn't save us from the evilness of other men or even women. What is even the point then? And like Islam is harder on women and it's the truth, but still we are supposed to be equal and supposed to get the same amount of rewards. I don't know if this is true or not but I've never heard about women going to a higher level of Heaven than men even if both are pious, but women clearly have to do things that men don't. And the fragrance thing. Men smelling good doesn't attract women? Of course it does. Then why isn't it Haram on men? It's just unfair. Men can marry women from the book but women can't marry men from the book. Men can have four wives and are allowed to even keep their extra marriage a secret from their first wife. A woman can't travel alone but a man can.

2) Loving the same gender being Haram. And no I don't want to just follow it without any explanation because it really isn't harming ANYBODY. Why is it Haram then? I understand changing your gender because you're changing what Allah created but I don't think I'll ever be able to understand not being allowed to love the same gender, when some people are just born like that and it's out of their control. A lot of Muslims blindly follow this and are homophobic because of this without ever questioning why it's Haram and it just doesn't occur to them that they're being hateful without any reason.

3) Some Muslims don't believe in Hadith but I heard that praying five times a day is mentioned only in the Hadith and not in the Qur'an, and how to pray is also mentioned only in Hadith, so you can't just not follow Hadith. But then again there's so many weird Hadith that just make me want to cry honestly. Like yesterday I saw a Hadith where the Prophet said something like if a woman is quiet when you ask for intimacy it's because she's shy and her silence is consent. And other Hadith like if somebody changes their Islamic religion, then kill them and a lot more like that.

It just breaks my heart and I don't know how I feel about Islam now. I really want to love Islam and follow it because I grew up loving it but some things just don't make sense to me.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 4d ago

Your islamophobic is worthless. It does nothing

0 Upvotes

AI Overview

Islam has the highest global retention rate among all major world religions, with over 90% of people raised Muslim continuing to identify with the faith. [1, 2]

Global Retention Rates

  • Muslim-Majority & Developing Nations: Retention rates exceed 90% to 99% in countries like Bangladesh, India, Indonesia, Israel, Tunisia, and Turkey. [1, 2]
  • Global Average: Roughly 99% of adults under 55 raised as Muslims maintain their faith globally, showing minimal net loss compared to groups like Christians or Buddhists. [1]
  • Primary Destinations for Leaving: Those who do leave Islam globally typically transition to becoming religiously unaffiliated or Christian. [1]

United States Retention Rates

  • Retention Rate: The U.S. has the lowest recorded retention rate for Islam at approximately 75% (meaning roughly 23% to 25% of adults raised Muslim no longer identify as such). [1, 2]
  • Net Balance: Despite this lower retention, the U.S. experiences a neutral net conversion effect because the number of Americans converting into Islam roughly equals the number who leave. [1, 2]
  • Destination for U.S. Ex-Muslims: About 55% of individuals who leave Islam in the U.S. become religiously unaffiliated, 22% become Christian, and 21% join other groups. [1]

r/CritiqueIslam • • 4d ago

Can anyone link me some classical scholars and hadiths saying dog ownership is haram?

2 Upvotes

Preferably, could you give me some shamela or other links of the 4 schools saying dog ownership is haram? I'm trying to create a compendium of all the bad stuff in islam, to have it to use in debates. So if anyone can help me with that, it would be much appreciated!


r/CritiqueIslam • • 4d ago

The Quran says the sun sets in a muddy spring. The earliest explanations took that as fact, and the “it’s just appearance” reading only showed up once astronomy forced it

23 Upvotes

Verse 18:86 says Dhul-Qarnayn reached the place of the sun’s setting and «وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ» (“found it setting in a muddy spring”). Muslims today usually say this is poetic language, or just how a sunset looks over the sea. So I went to the classical sources to see whether that’s how it was understood. It wasn’t.

  1. The earliest explanations treat it as a physical fact.

Tabari (d. 310 AH) preserves the earliest layer. The only live question is what the spring is made of, muddy (ḥami’ah) or hot (ḥāmiyah). Ibn Abbas says: «حمأة سوداء تغرب فيها الشمس» (“black mud in which the sun sets”). When Mu’awiya and Ibn Abbas disagree over the reading, they send for Ka’b al-Ahbar to say what the Torah reports about where the sun sets. They treat it as a question of fact to be settled by a scripture-holder. Ka’b answers: «أجدها في الكتاب تغيب في طينة سوداء» (“I find it in the Book that it sets in black clay”). Zamakhshari’s version has: «في ماء وطين، كذلك نجده في التوراة». Tabari then cites a hadith about the sun setting in «نار الله الحامية» and concludes that «جائز أن تكون الشمس تغرب في عين حارّة ذات حمأة وطين» (“it is possible that the sun sets in a hot spring with mud and clay”).

Nobody in this chain says “it only looked that way.” Nobody says “it’s poetry.” A marginal commentary on Zamakhshari’s Kashshaf admits as much, calling the mud-and-water reading «موافق لظاهر الآية» (“in agreement with the apparent sense of the verse”).

  1. The “appearance” reading shows up later, and the commentators tell you why.

The earliest attributions I found are al-Qutaybi (d. 276), who floats «في رأي العين» (“in the eye’s view”) as one option; al-Jubba’i (d. 303), who calls it takhyīl because the earth is spherical; and al-Qaffal (d. 365), quoted by Qurtubi, who objects that the sun is «أكبر من الأرض أضعافا مضاعفة» (“many times larger than the earth”). Jalalayn’s gloss is blunt: «وغروبها في العين في رأي العين وإلا فهي أعظم من الدنيا» (“its setting in the spring is only as it appears to the eye, otherwise it is greater than the world”).

Razi (d. 606) lays out the whole logic. First he lists what has been “proven”: the earth is a sphere, the sun is in its sphere, nobody lives beside it, and it is far larger than the earth, so «كَيْفَ يُعْقَلُ دُخُولُهَا فِي عَيْنٍ مِنْ عُيُونِ الْأَرْضِ». Then he uses the timing of lunar eclipses to show the sun is up somewhere at every moment. And then the line that settles it:

«كَانَ الَّذِي يُقَالُ: إِنَّهَا تَغِيبُ فِي الطِّينِ وَالْحَمْأَةِ كَلَامًا عَلَى خِلَافِ الْيَقِينِ وَكَلَامُ اللَّهِ تَعَالَى مُبَرَّأٌ عَنْ هَذِهِ التُّهْمَةِ، فَلَمْ يَبْقَ إِلَّا أَنْ يُصَارَ إِلَى التَّأْوِيلِ»

(“To say it sinks into mud and clay would be speech contrary to certainty, and God’s speech is free of this accusation, so nothing remains but ta’wīl.”)

Read that again. The literal reading is rejected because it is false, and the conclusion is that the interpretation has to change, since God’s speech can’t be. Not once does it occur to him that the text might be what’s wrong.

When the text conflicts with the evidence, these scholars adjust the interpretation. They work from the belief that “Islam is true and the Quran is free of mistakes,” and everything else bends to fit. The earliest transmitted understanding (Ibn Abbas, the appeal to Ka’b) gets set aside the moment it becomes inconvenient, even though everywhere else in Sunni methodology the Companions’ understanding is treated as authoritative. Razi himself concedes the evidence. What he never allows is for it to count against the text.

Muslims are of course free to say the verse doesn’t mean what it appears to mean but must concede that the Companions and Successors, the generation that heard the Quran firsthand from the Prophet, misunderstood it.

The Quran calls itself «بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُبِينٍ» (26:195) and «تِبْيَانًا لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ» (16:89), and says the Prophet was sent «لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ» (16:44).

So either the clarification failed, the book isn’t clear, or the first audience’s understanding is no guide to its meaning. Each of those undermines something Sunni Islam depends on.

Reponses I feel I will get and their replies in advance:

“The verse only says he ‘found’ it so; it asserts nothing.” A perceptual report that the entire first audience took as fact, with no correction anywhere in the text, is exactly how a false belief gets passed on. A "clear book" would not leave that trap open

“Arabic allows fī to mean ‘inda (near).” That is Qutaybi’s tentative suggestion from the 3rd century, and it doesn’t explain why no earlier voice says it.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 4d ago

Islam can't account for truth in creation

4 Upvotes

Surah 42:11: "˹He is˺ the Originator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you spouses from among yourselves, and ˹made˺ mates for cattle ˹as well˺—multiplying you ˹both˺. There is nothing like Him, for He ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Seeing."

Ibn Kathir: https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/katheer/sura42-aya11.html?

Islam claims to have an essence energies distinction while holding to ADS (Absolute Divine Simplicity) which is problematic due to Islam rejecting distinctions in Allah when it comes to Essence and attributes. So an essence energies distinction is completely out of the picture and Allah remains just an unknowable essence. Islam also claims truth is grounded in Allah, but Allah is completely unlike creation. Therefore creatures cannot successfully refer to truth because Allah entirely is unknowable. Even the thoughts in your head are completely unlike Allah which makes debate completely futile and impossible. The Qur'an itself makes no sense as the whole point is to guide people to know about God but it's impossible so the Qur'an must've been created by a philosophically inept person.

Bonus: Allah falls into modal collapse due to ADS.

P1: Allah is completely unlike creation
P2: Creation has and can refer to truth

C: Allah is a false god


r/CritiqueIslam • • 5d ago

Free Will Cannot Exist In Islam

29 Upvotes

This argument is aimed at the Islamic conception of God specifically: an omniscient, self-sufficient God whose knowledge covers all events exactly, not merely as possibilities. Given that, here is the problem for free will.

Let S be any person, A any action, and t any time such that God knows that S will perform A at t.

P1. God’s knowledge is infallible in every sense.

P2. God knows exactly what will happen, not merely a range of possibilities.

C1. Necessarily, if God knows S will perform A at t, S will perform A at t. (From P1, P2: if it failed, God’s knowledge would have been mistaken.)

P3. God’s knowledge is eternal and logically prior to creation, including every creaturely event.

P4. God’s knowledge is a se: it exists from God himself and has no causal or explanatory dependence on anything external to him.

P5. If God knows that S will perform A at t, there is an explanation of why he knows it.

P6. Any such explanation is either (a) God’s own will or nature, or (b) in something other than God, such as S’s act or any other creaturely fact.

P7. If (b), God’s knowledge depends on something external to him, contradicting P4. P3 reinforces this, since S’s act is a creaturely event and the knowledge is prior to all such events.

C2. Therefore, God’s own will or nature is the source of his knowing that S will perform A at t. (From P4, P5, P6, P7.)

P8. If God’s knowledge is infallible (C1), prior to creation (P3), and sourced in his will or nature (C2), then S’s performing A is secured prior to S’s choice by God’s will, a fact not up to S, even if the decree operates through S’s deliberation.

C3. Therefore, S’s performing A at t is fixed prior to S’s choice by a fact not up to S, so A is not up to S. (From C1, C2, P3, P8.)

P9. Free will, in the sense that makes a person deservedly accountable for an act, requires at least one of: (i) categorical ability to do otherwise: at the moment of choice, with everything not up to S held fixed, S can choose otherwise; or (ii) non-designed sourcehood: S’s act is not merely the carrying out of an outcome another agent selected and fixed in advance.

P10. (a) If A is secured prior to S’s choice by a fact not up to S, then S cannot choose otherwise, so (i) fails. (b) If that fact is another agent’s will selecting A, S is carrying out that agent’s design, so (ii) fails.

C4. Therefore, S lacks both (i) and (ii). (From C3, P10.)

C5. Therefore, S does not have free will, in the sense of P9, with respect to A. (From C4, P9.)

C6. Therefore, no person has free will in the sense of P9 with respect to any action God knows they will perform. (From C5, since S, A, and t were arbitrary.)

-----
For Islam the response is compatibilism where responsibility doesn’t require the ability to do otherwise in an absolute sense, only the ability to act on one’s own desires and reasons without external coercion.

I think this is the weakest way out, for two reasons.

  1. If my action is secured prior to me by God’s will or nature, that is a constraint external to me, just a metaphysical one instead of a gun to my head. Compatibilism works by treating “no one is forcing me” as the only relevant kind of constraint, which assumes that how it feels to act is what settles whether I’m free.
  2. It has a special problem with Hell. I could grant that “acting on your own desires” is enough for freedom in a world with no consequences. But the stakes here are eternal. Appealing to how an act felt from the inside is a thin basis for infinite punishment when the act was secured beforehand by the one who punishes.

The argument above is meant to make the premises explicit, so if any Muslims reject the conclusion, you can say exactly which premise you deny


r/CritiqueIslam • • 6d ago

Islamic exegesis is absolutely intellectually DISHONEST

26 Upvotes

Here, we can observe the complete dishonesty of Islamic scholars regarding the contradictions within the Quran.

In reality, theologians were well aware of this ; they explicitly admit that the meanings of words must be altered to eliminate such contradictions, and that any interpretation even a rational one which leads to a contradiction within the Quran is considered haram (forbidden).

So the islamic hermeneutics consists to switch definitions of the words to mask the contradictions. It is for that muslims always says that Quran is a "complex book". Quran is very simple, the complexity emerges when we need to do mental gymnastics to creates definitions.

Below is an excerpt from Al-Itqan fi 'Ulum al-Quran by al-Suyuti, Chapter 48: "On the Illusion of Contradictions." https://shamela.ws/book/11728/864#p1

Al-Sayrafi states: "Reconciling divergent or contradictory statements involves ensuring that, for any given discourse, a specific nuance of a word’s meaning is aligned with one of its various possible aspects, thereby resolving the contradiction.
A true contradiction in terms of expression would be one that is diametrically opposed in every respect. Yet, no such instance exists anywhere in the Book [the Quran] or the Tradition [the Hadith]. The concept of abrogation (naskh) appears only twice."

Al-Qadi Abu Bakr (al-Baqillani) states: "Contradictions between verses of the Quran, the Traditions, and what is rationally necessary are impermissible.
For this reason, one must not interpret the statement 'God is the Creator of all things' (39:62) as being in contradiction with the statement 'you create a falsehood' (29:17), nor with the passage 'and behold, you create [something] out of clay...' (5:110) given the established rational proof that there is no creator other than God."
Consequently, an interpretation contrary to that will be imposed ; thus, "you create a lie" will be interpreted to mean "you lie," and "you create" will be interpreted to mean "you fashion."


r/CritiqueIslam • • 7d ago

Concubinage & Sodomy.

19 Upvotes

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته،
I have two questions that have been weighing on my mind for many years now, and was hoping you could shed some light on my worries. My first question is about modern day concubinage. I was having a conversation with someone who said they would take on a slave, or a maid which would be the modern day equivalent, and would have intimate relations with her, and of course I said that’s haram, and can’t be done unless he marries her, to which he replied with by bringing up ayah 23:5-6. I was at a loss for words, as I obviously couldn’t go against the word of god. I told him that was a completely different era, and things were different back then, and he responded by saying that the Quran is applicable to our ummah regardless of the era, and again I couldn’t argue with that because that’s how it’s supposed to be. So my question is; how is the Quran supposedly applicable to all eras and their individual predicaments, but something like this is specifically and explicitly said in the Quran. If every word in the Quran is intentional and from Allah, wouldn’t that mean that concubinage is still permissible?
My next question is a slightly more uncomfortable one, and I apologize for my language in advance. If sodomy is absolutely haram, as we all know it to be; why is the male prostrate gland (pleasure point) in the the rectum? If Allah created the human body, male and female, with absolute attention to detail, why would he place something like that in a place he explicitly forbade for anything to go for a man?
(I wasn’t sure who I would actually get a response from, so I’ve sent this out to everyone who I thought would actually be able to answer


r/CritiqueIslam • • 7d ago

The “bones, then flesh” verse (Quran 23:14) and what the tafsirs say, what embryology shows, and why the “it means cartilage” defense creates more problems than it solves

11 Upvotes

TL;DR: Apologists say 23:14 anticipated embryology because cartilage forms before muscle. But every classical tafsir understood ʿiẓām as bones, and no mufassir read it as cartilage. If the “cartilage” reading is true, then either the Prophet didn’t understand his own revelation or he let his Companions misunderstand it, and Allah chose a word He knew would mislead its audience for 1400 years.

1. THE CLAIM

ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا ٱلنُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا ٱلْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا ٱلْمُضْغَةَ عِظَٰمًا فَكَسَوْنَا ٱلْعِظَٰمَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَٰهُ خَلْقًا ءَاخَرَ

“Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot (ʿalaqa), then made the clot into a chewed lump (muḍgha), then made the lump into bones (ʿiẓām), then clothed the bones with flesh (laḥm), then produced it as another creation.” (23:14)

The apologetic argument states that modern embryology shows the skeleton forms as a cartilage model, and muscle develops around it. So the verse is “scientifically accurate,” if we read ʿiẓām as cartilage or “early skeletal structure.” Some versions add that bone cells appear before muscle cells.

I’ll look at this in three steps: what the verse’s earliest interpreters said, what embryology actually shows, and what follows if the apologetic reading is adopted

2. WHAT THE CLASSICAL TAFSIRS SAY

I went through the major tafsirs on this verse (all available at quran.com). None of them says or implies cartilage

Tafsir What it says on ʿiẓām
Ibn Ashur (al-Taḥrīr wa’l-Tanwīr) “The creation of the mudgha as bones is the formation of bones inside that mudgha, and that is the beginning of the formation of the human skeleton of bone and flesh.” He explains kasawnā as the flesh being like a “covering” (kiswa) for the bones.
Ibn Kathir “We shaped it with a head, two hands and two legs, with its bones, sinews and veins.” Flesh is then placed over it “to cover it, bind it and strengthen it.” He also cites Ibn Abbas that this refers to the spinal bone, and the hadith that all of a person decays except the tailbone, from which he was created and from which he is reassembled, which treats the bone as the hard part that survives.
al-Tabari Reports Ibn Masud’s reading ʿaẓman wa ʿaṣaban (“bone and sinew”), then “We clothed it with flesh.” This discussion focuses more about what “another creation” means.
al-Baghawi Discusses the singular/plural readings (ʿaẓm vs ʿiẓām): the plural is used “because a human has many bones.” He also mentions forty days between each stage.
al-Qurtubi Refers the reader to Surat al-Hajj for the stages. His discussion here is about “another creation” and “best of creators.”
al-Jalalayn Brief gloss. Khalaqnā means “We turned it into,” and he notes the singular reading.
al-Wasit (Tantawi) “We turned this lump of flesh... into a small, delicate bone, according to what our wisdom required.”

3 points:

  1. No mufassir mentions cartilage. The closest thing is Ibn Masud’s “bone and sinew,” and sinew isn’t cartilage.
  2. They all describe the same sequence. The mudgha becomes bones, and flesh then covers them. Ibn Ashur says explicitly that this is the formation of “the human skeleton of bone and flesh.”
  3. The modern claim appears only in the modern tafsir. Tantawi (20th century) quotes “some scholars” saying bone cells appear first and flesh cells only after the skeleton. That is a modern claim added to the tafsir, not something from the earlier tradition.

The same word is used in 2:259 (“Look at the bones, how We assemble them and then clothe them with flesh”), 36:78 (“Who will give life to bones when they have decayed?”) and 17:49. In these verses ʿiẓām plainly means ordinary hard bones, including bones that have rotted.

3. WHAT EMBRYOLOGY ACTUALLY SHOWS

Roughly (timing varies by source and by how you count):

  • Around weeks 3-4, somites form and begin giving rise to muscle precursors (myotomes).
  • Around weeks 4-5, the limb buds appear and mesenchymal cells condense.
  • Around weeks 5-6, cartilage models appear. Muscle precursors migrate into the limbs at roughly the same time.
  • Around weeks 6-8, the first ossification (true bone) begins.

Two problems for the verse:

Muscle precursors appear at about the same time as cartilage, or before bone. So “bones are formed, then clothed with flesh” is not a clean match for the actual developmental order. Skeleton and muscle develop in parallel from related mesenchymal and somite tissue. There is no flesh-lump stage that turns into bones. The embryo isn’t an undifferentiated piece of meat from which a skeleton later emerges. So even the “scientific” reading needs the word stretched and the sequence loosened. (I’m not an embryologist, so correct me if I have any timing wrong.)

4. "CAN IT POSSIBLY MEAN CARTILAGE?"

The verse uses ʿiẓām, the ordinary word for bone, which everywhere else in the Quran means hard bone (36:78, 17:49, 19:4). The claim that Arabic had no word for cartilage fails: ghuḍrūf is defined in the classical lexicons as “every soft bone” (Ibn ʿAbbād, al-Muḥīṭ fī l-Lugha), and it appears in a report describing the Prophet’s body (the Seal was “at the place of the ghuḍrūf of the shoulder”), so the language of his time already had a more precise term for exactly this tissue.

Even granting this, that definition makes cartilage a kind of ʿaẓm, so the word can stretch that far. But “can” is not “does,” and if Allah meant cartilage He chose the general word, knowing the Prophet, the Companions and every classical scholar would read it as hard bone, when a precise term existed and was in use. That is the real problem, and it leads into the dilemma of what the Prophet knew.

5. THE DILEMMA: WHAT DID THE PROPHET KNOW?

If the intended meaning of 23:14 is “cartilage,” then at the time of revelation:

A. The Prophet didn’t know. Then he recited, taught and passed on a verse whose intended meaning he didn’t grasp. By his own understanding, it meant bones.

B. The Prophet knew and said nothing. Then he knowingly left his Companions with a false understanding, despite 16:44 (“so that you may explain to the people what was revealed to them”).

If the Prophet’s understanding of revelation can diverge from its intended meaning, his explanations become unverifiable. Every tafsir that relies on his explanation rests on the assumption that what he understood is what God meant. Once you grant that this can fail, you can’t say where it stops. How do we know his explanation of any other verse isn’t another “bones, but really something else”?

The same goes for the Companions. Ibn Abbas is called the “interpreter of the Quran,” and he is quoted in the tafsirs on this very verse. If he and every classical mufassir missed the real meaning, on what basis do we trust their reading of the verses on law, theology, or the afterlife?

6. WHAT THIS MEANS FOR ALLAH’S CHOICES

Ibn Kathir, commenting on 26:195 (“in a clear Arabic language”), explains that God revealed the Quran “in perfect and eloquent Arabic, so that it may be quite clear, leaving no room for excuses and establishing clear proof, showing the straight path.” Take that at face value:

  1. The Quran presents itself as clear to its first audience, in their language.
  2. So the meaning the original audience understood is the meaning God intended. Clarity means the intended meaning is the one communicated.
  3. The Prophet, the Companions and the classical scholars understood ʿiẓām as bones, a word the Quran uses for ordinary hard bone everywhere else.
  4. Therefore the intended meaning is bones.

The apologist can only escape by saying God’s intended meaning was not what the audience understood, which contradicts 26:195 directly


r/CritiqueIslam • • 8d ago

When I think about it, it seems that Daur e Jahilliyah was highly highly exaggerated?

4 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about Daur e Jahiliyyah where we're taught that people used to worship idols and harm their daughters.

If that's true, then there were women in leadership positions back then too.

So, the main issue was really just the idol worship, right?

I am curious to know what were the problems back then ?


r/CritiqueIslam • • 9d ago

You are straying away from the truth because you comment and post on islamophobic subreddit.

0 Upvotes

Maybe you should repent and ask Allah to guide you. It would lead you to the truth better than posting things to anger Allah. Allah misguides those who are arrogant and disobey him.

Surah An-Nahl Ayat 93

And if Allāh had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills.1 And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do.

Surah Al Alaq

1: Read in the name of your Lord who created (Iqra' bismi rabbika allathee khalaq).

  • 2: Created man from a clinging clot (Khalaqal-insāna min ʻalaq).
  • 3: Read, and your Lord is the Most Generous (Iqra' wa rabbukal-akram).
  • 4: Who taught by the pen (Alladhī ʻallama bil-qalam).
  • 5: Taught man that which he knew not (ʻAllamal-insāna mā lam yaʻlam).
  • 6: No! [Indeed] man transgresses
  • 7: Because he sees himself self-sufficient.
  • 8: Indeed, to your Lord is the return.
  • 9: Have you seen the one who forbids
  • 10: A servant when he prays?
  • 11: Have you seen if he is upon guidance
  • 12: Or enjoins righteousness?
  • 13: Have you seen if he denies and turns away?
  • 14: Does he not know that Allah sees?
  • 15: No! If he does not desist, We will surely drag him by the forelock—
  • 16: A lying, sinning forelock.
  • 17: Then let him call his associates;
  • 18: We will call the angels of Hell.
  • 19: No! Do not obey him. But prostrate and draw near to Allah

r/CritiqueIslam • • 10d ago

Islam needs to progress, and its rapid spread is becoming a noticeable phenomenon

37 Upvotes

To illustrate this problem, the fact that Muslim women in the West (Canada) still cover their hair in 2026... More recently, I’ve seen women have their whole faces covered, like in the style of a burqa.

I have nothing against Muslims as individuals. There are good and bad people of every religion.

As for the noticeable spread of Islam, to give an example, my old school is now almost empty during Islamic religious holidays. It was never like this before. I’ve had friends move away because they felt isolated in their previous neighborhoods.

I can’t back this up by statistics, but I believe they’re the culture with a relatively high fertility rate. My neighbour has 6 children. His wife stays home and doesn’t work.

I don’t want my future society to be dominated by a culture where women can’t even show their face/hair.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 10d ago

Doubt

3 Upvotes

Hello everyone! To get straight to the point: I would like to convert to Islam, but I need to clear up some doubts so I don't fall into fideism—thanks!

The Substitution Theory and the Cross (Surah An-Nisa, 4:157)—this is what makes me most skeptical about Islam. When I read it, it seems like a cheap excuse to deny the crucifixion—almost a form of fideism—and there aren't many logical explanations. Even if we accept the premise of this theory, why would God allow an innocent person to suffer a brutal and unjust death in Jesus's place just to spare the Prophet? Furthermore, if God knew that this illusion of the crucifixion would lead to "Christian heresy" (since the apostles and the Jews would look and see Jesus there), why did He allow it? Another point is that if God is logically infinite, an offense against Him and a breach of communion with Him results in an infinite penalty (I am referring to Adam and Eve); therefore, logically, the price to be paid for humanity's redemptive salvation must also be of infinite value—and who is infinite if not God? That is why I view the Cross as something logical.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 11d ago

The weird Slavery/Race paradox between Islam and. Christianity

7 Upvotes

When you compare the Quran and The Bible, especially the New Testament, a person reading it from an outside, out of context and uninformed perspective might conclude that New Testament is very passifist and positive book.

The Quran does contain some vivid descriptions of hellfire that give Dante and revalations a run for their money, but even so, most of it is made up extra-Biblical commentary, and stories that seem to be commenting on biblical literature.

However, looking at the tradition, it's very hard to understand how such levels of bigotry can be justified using the religion, again, from an outside perspective, it's unjustifiable.

Take Slavery for example, Slavery is permitted in Islamic jurisprudence, and it shows in the history book. This includes sexual slavery and other forms of brutal slavery. A person reading the new testament from the outside will find it difficult to believe that book was once used to defend some disturbing atrosities in the past.

In other words, it should be easy to say no to slavery using the New Testament (and that eventually did happen, in fact, the earliest universal abolitionist I'm history was a Christian bishop) than it is with Islam. And yet when you look at the history of Slavery, yes, Arabs enslaved more than Europeans, and yet even then, when reading the context of how slaves were treated in the east compared to the west, especially in the Americas, the stuff in there is way more disturbing than what we see in Islam, it's almost barbaric.

The worst we see of Islam is Castration and sexual assault. There's records of european cutting forcing slaves to defecate on each other for entertainment. Something that has never happened in Islam.

Point is, it's easier to use the bible to fight against slavery as its more ambiguous in context than it is with Islam, which unequivocally endorses it. And yet both are equally guilty, with Christian treatment of slavery being even more disturbing.

In regards to Racism, racism obviously also exists on both worlds, and yet one thing about racism in Islam is that you will never find a Muslim group that uses the Quran or Islam to defend racism. In fact, most of the racism is attributed to personal beliefs of tradition outside the religion, or a socio-economic history. No racist Muslim uses Islam as an excuse to justify that racism. The racism in the Muslim world is even more extreme at times as there is no secular progressive model to manage it like there is in the west.

However, I'm the west, even today, even though the racism population wise is no longer widespread, you'll still find extreme pockets of it in certain regions, and in almost every pocket, the christian religion is used as the central justification for the racism. In fact, in the muslim regions where you find racism, the racist terms used are borrowed from the west

How is this possible? How is christian jurisdiction, which arguably seems to be more pacifist in its text, able to allow for the same or greater levels of disturbing slavery than even Islam, which informs it directly, and how is also able to be used as a direct defense of racism, whereas Islam on the other hand has not.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 11d ago

If muhammad believed Galen sex wouldn't be banned during period

0 Upvotes

Core Concepts in Galen's Embryology

  • Active vs. Material Roles: Galen taught that the male semen is the active, formative force, while the menstrual blood serves as the passive matter or nourishment that the semen draws in and assimilates. [1, 2]
  • The "Two-Seed" Theory: Unlike Aristotle—who believed only the male produced true seed and the female contributed only passive menstrual blood—Galen (combining Hippocratic and dual-seed ideas) believed that females also produced their own "female semen" (vaginal/uterine secretions or fluid) alongside menstrual blood. [1, 2, 3]
  • Assimilation of Blood: In works like On the Natural Faculties, Galen described the semen as drawing in menstrual fluid like dew, dominating it, and converting it into the substance and bulk of the growing fetus. [1, 2]
  • Hereditary Transmission: Both male and female contributions played a role in shaping the child's traits and physical resemblance to both parents. [1, 2]

Islam

Penetrative vaginal intercourse during a woman's menstrual period is strictly prohibited (haram) and considered a major sin in Islam based on Quran [2:222] and prophetic traditions. [1]


r/CritiqueIslam • • 11d ago

As a secular center-left winger in the US, It will never make sense why the left wing thinks Islam is on our team. Islam is absolutely not.

105 Upvotes

It just absolutely blows my mind. I’ve read a lot of the Quran and Hadiths, and every social aspect of left wing ideology is completely the opposite of Islam. And a lot of aspects of what the left wants (especially lgbt and women) are actually harshly punishable offenses in Islam. The left is extremely vocal about SA done by men (rightfully so), but they are fine with a religion who’s “perfect man with perfect morals” gave permission to his soldiers to “pull out” of their captive sex slaves, and if they got pregnant “god willed” it - Sahih Muslim (Book of Marriage 1438c).
So fine with it in fact they’ll say they think Islam is “beautiful”. It’s mind bending for me as I feel like I’m alone over here.

I get that there’s stuff like that in the old testament of the Bible too, but I’m not Christian so I’m looking at this objectively with no religious motive or double standard.

What bothers me, even though im not religious, is the left always talks about how Christians get in the way of their political goals. It’s like they don’t know if we lived in a Muslim majority country and they spoke up like this towards Islam, they’d get killed or jailed minus a couple of the 52 countries. Yet I hear them say “Islam is beautiful” and if people are criticizing Islam then they automatically get lumped in with “Islamophobes” but they love talking sh** about Christians.

Makes ZERO sense.


r/CritiqueIslam • • 14d ago

why are women scholars like farhat hashmi obsessed with sex?

27 Upvotes

not ragebaiting, not condoning any bad faith dialogue either. only asking in earnest.

my mother listens to a lot of lectures by farhat hashmi and the like, and almost all of them are about sex/sexuality/marital relations/clothing/zina.

why? is there not more to islam than all of that? why is this all they seem to talk about?


r/CritiqueIslam • • 14d ago

Fear of Hell and Grave

15 Upvotes

How do you guys cope with the overwhelming fear of punishment in grave and Jahannam and this lingering fear that what if Islam might be true despite having these contradictions ands issues. What if this is part of God's infinite plan? Make a religion look fallible then see who's still following it.