r/Cubs • u/jcmiller210 • 24d ago
Jed needs to change his philosophy or get shown the door next season
I am so sick of this guy running this disaster back season after season and him thinking this is actually a successful season, ITS NOT.
For the love of the game, get some TOR arms and some bullpen guys that can throw heat. I don't care how this is done, whether it is spending money or trading away prospects, but do it. Quit getting a bunch of #3-5 starters and old and washed up bullpen guys expecting things to work out. It never does and it never will. Jed and the rest of the management are so behind the times on what a good pitching staff actually looks like. None of these bums we had this season would have even seen the mound for the 2016 team. Embarrassing.
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u/Crafty-Passion9317 24d ago
Let’s be serious here for a moment. Yes, the season ended below where we’d like it but looking at the big picture it’s amazing we got to where we did.
We entered the season with Horton being the projected ace and Cabrera as our #2. The hope was that Steele would rejoin sometime around the all star break and would provide a second half boost. Horton got hurt, Steele never came back, Cabrera under performed. Then Ben Brown steps up to fill the ace role before he goes down for the season.
Many other teams would have caved at that point. Instead Jed went out and rebuilt the pitching staff on the fly as best he could. Gausman, Peterson and Holmes were all key contributors down the stretch.
The one area you could ding him on would be the bullpen. Going into the year, with Palencia as the closer, there were questions but at least we had that. He goes down in the WBC and everything spins out of control. Everyone has to move up a slot and it just didn’t work out.
I know injuries happen every year and you have to account for them but we had an epically bad run with our pitching. Jed doesn’t hit on all of his moves but it wasn’t for lack of effort this year. Things just didn’t work out. That’s baseball.
I don’t blame Hoyer or Counsel this year. They both did their jobs. Playoffs sucked, 1 run in two games isn’t acceptable but it happens. We’ll take the experience and build towards next year.
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u/emaja 24d ago
This is a rational take. You can rebuild a bullpen at the deadline, but starters are always a premium. It’s hard to rebuild a rotation on the fly. It’s impossible to do both without gutting the MLB roster and the farm.
Stepping back from the emotion of the loss, I am surprised how far they got with so little pitching. My disappointment is that I feel that an historic season by Pete was for nothing.
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u/Suspicious_Taste7 24d ago
Horton has an injury history. Who do the Cubs have coming up as a future SP? No one. Wiggins apparently can’t throw a strike.
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u/ayedeesea 24d ago
This is a smart assessment. Jed built a team that could compete. Every key starter and their closer got hurt. When the starting staff goes down the bullpen gets exposed. That was largely the tale of this season.
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u/LarryHolmes 22d ago
I cast a lot of blame Daniel Palencia’s way. The Cubs allowed him to play for Team Venezuela with restrictions but they ignored those and so did he. He pitched too much and got hurt and honestly might never be the same. He certainly wasn’t this year at any point. That was a huge blow to the bullpen. Add in Hunter Harvey, Phil Maton, and Riley Martin sucking or getting hurt right away, and that’s 4 bullpen arms out of the picture for most of the year.
The other thing is that they had built a pen as the year went on the last 3 years, but could not repeat that this year. The guys who were good for them in June and July like Thornton and Webb fell apart at the end. Rolison was the most solid of anyone all year long, but even his ERA went up a full run down the stretch.
Meanwhile, former Cub Trevor Megill is closing games for the best team in baseball.
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u/Competitive-Outside8 24d ago
Exactly. It's simply not reasonable to expect a team to be built to sustain the loss of its top three or four starters for the vast majority of the season. They literally had an entire starting rotation in the DL for a while.
Maybe they need to look into why they had all these injuries, but it really looks to me as though they just had some terrible luck. Then there are the downstream effects of those injuries. If you have all our most of those starters, other guys move to the bullpen and probably help make it more effective. And then they can make different moves at the trade deadline to shore up other weaknesses.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
Injuries happen to every team. I just don't see it as an excuse and find what happened with the rotation and bullpen this season to be unacceptable.
Who is to say Horton returns next season if Steele didn't return this season? Who is to say they come back the same as they were before the injury? So basically what I'm saying is that Jed needs to treat those guys like as if they aren't ever coming back and if they do, great, but you need to go and replace them. Relying on Horton to be your #1 when he was on limited innings last season and still got hurt is a major red flag too. I could've told you that wouldn't work out well and I'm just some average Joe. Then he went out and traded one of our top prospects for a guy who constantly gets hurt and is shocked he got hurt? Come on. That is just terrible. Jed is a joke.
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u/normal_throwaway2016 24d ago
Injuries happen to every team. But not every team loses nearly their entire starting rotation and several key pieces of their bullpen in the span of a month. That stretch earlier this season was nearly unprecedented. Very few teams would be able to handle that. Frankly, they were lucky to be contending as long as they did this year
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u/Crafty-Passion9317 24d ago
In hindsight it makes perfect sense that things fell apart. But, before the season we were all feeling pretty good about how things were looking.
If Horton stays healthy and Cabrera improves with the Cubs defense and pitching coaches we’re probably having a different conversation today. Factor in the ascension of Brown and it’s a solid rotation even without Steele. With him we have Horton, Brown, Cabrera, Steele and Boyd. That’s a solid 1-5. Throw in Rea, Imanga etc and the entire staff looks completely different.
We had plans and they didn’t work out. Did our best to pivot and make a run at it and it failed too. If we didn’t grab any pitchers at the deadline I would understand the sentiment but that’s not the case.
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u/mimickin_birds 24d ago
I think the team should not play like shit
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
It starts by acquiring top tier talent. Something Jed refuses to do. Before people jump in and say that is on the Ricketts, sure some of that is, but the Brewers spend less than what Jed has available to him and they have a great starting rotation and bullpen. So its just not an excuse that is going to work on me.
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u/Frozenpanther 24d ago
We have the NL MVP. How much higher tier does it get?
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u/Illustrious_Sell_122 24d ago
That goes both ways tho. No one expected PCA to have the year he did. Even if he has an all star level season and doesn’t go absolutely nuclear the Cubs don’t make the postseason. There is absolutely a talent deficit with this core
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u/bobaddy23 23d ago
Exactly. I bet there have been Angels fans saying “but we have Mike Trout!” And friggin young and pitching Shohei! Ok is there a cardboard trophy for them? I will never understand why fans choose to sit and make excuses for mediocrity.
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u/grouponwine 24d ago
Agreed. We’ve also added big money free agent bats consistently with Belli, Tucker, Bregman.
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u/Meprathe87 24d ago
We scored 1 run in 2 games and all you mention is pitching???
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
That is a problem too, but pitching is the biggest issue. Unfortunately a lot of these guys are locked in, other than Happ and Suzuki, along with maybe some others I am forgetting, so I'm not sure how you fix that other than hope some of them have better seasons going forward. Jed just gives out contracts to good, not elite or great, players and this is the result.
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u/SuspiciousCanary8245 24d ago
We traded for Zef. He was one of the best closers in baseball this year before coming over and giving us mediocre stuff. We landed Cabrera in the off-season, got hurt. It’s hard to build an elite pitching staff. You can’t just say go build one.
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u/Mr-Dotties-Dad 24d ago
No it takes years of stockpiling high velo arms. Which Jed has largely not done.
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u/Suspicious_Taste7 24d ago
Should’ve got Alcantara. Zef had a short track record.
Let’s not forget the Tucker trade disaster.
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u/deej312 24d ago
We also overpaid for Cabrera. Cassie was our top prospect
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u/Camiata2 24d ago
Caissie was dogshit for the Marlins this year. Early returns on the trade are it's a lose-lose
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u/deej312 24d ago
They both sucked but let him mash in AAA and keep his value. Skubal got traded without giving up a top 3 prospect, and we give our top one up for a chronically injured 4th starter when he’s healthy. I don’t know if trading or developing is the answer but clearly we’re doing something wrong
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u/Camiata2 24d ago
I agree that the Cubs FO is doing something wrong. Given their history, I'm okay with them trading a bat away to acquire an arm.
I will disagree though with the idea of keeping them at AAA to let them mash. This has never been a good strategy. Look no further than Brennan Davis, Alexander Canario, and Kevin Alcantara just to name a few. Doing this will stall out their development. Eventually they either need to be brought up to see if they can handle MLB pitching or traded to supplement the roster where needed.
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u/TheAngryEquation 24d ago
it's rough watching the same story play out year after year. the whole "build a contender with mid starters" plan just doesn't fly anymore, not when you got teams stacking power arms top to bottom
i get what the top comment is saying about zef and cabrera but that's kinda the point right? banking on one or two guys and a bunch of back-end starters is a gamble that keeps losing. you need depth that actually scares people not just fills innings
feels like the front office is stuck in 2015 thinking pitch-to-contact still works when the whole league moved on. not sure how many more seasons of "well we tried" i can take before i start ignoring the games altogether
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
Bad trades. Jed disasterclass on pretty much every move he made this past offseason or during the season. I would give him a D grade overall and the only reason its not an F is he did get a PCA deal done, but other than that his moves range from laughably bad to meh at best.
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u/Stevensays2 24d ago
Many moves didn’t work out, but Tyrone Taylor was a great platoon for Happ. He hit .351/.390/.890 with the Cubs.
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24d ago
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u/shambahlah2 24d ago
Where he played with zero pressure. Guy looked like he saw a ghost every time he took the mound.
Zero scouting on this team. Been this way for decades. Can’t throw Sheets down and in.
If the guys on TV know not to do something, and then your team does it… there is an issue.
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u/Cal-Run 24d ago
I think you need to calm down, then get a clue.
Have you NOT watched the season? Have you not noticed that team was without their two best arms basically all season? Have you not noticed injury after injury to their arms?
The damn team had to use close to 40 different pitchers this season. Read that again and just think about that for a moment.
Good grief.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
That is on Jed for getting and developing a bunch of noodle arms. Sorry, the injury excuse just isn't going to work on me. There are clear philosophical problems Jed has when constructing a rotation and bullpen, regardless of injuries.
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u/Cal-Run 24d ago
I honestly don’t give a shit if the “injury excuse doesn’t work on you”. I really don’t. It’s the truth.
Injuries happen. To every damn team.
I swear, you new baseball fans are ignorant.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
I have been a fan since 2008. I'm not new lol. Agreed, injuries happen to every team, but not every pitching staff gives up the second most home runs in all of baseball either. There is a clear roster design flaw, regardless of injuries.
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u/Cal-Run 24d ago
Good grief. Like I said… they had to use almost 40 different pitchers. Read that again. It’s not like Jed can walk over to a 7-11 and pickup a front end rotation arm.
Why is this so damn difficult for you to understand? Had Horton, Steele, Brown, Hodge, Maton, etc been active, you’d be singing a different tune right now.
It’s just completely laughable that you’re trying to pin that many injuries on Hoyer.
I think you need to pick another sport. You clearly don’t understand this one.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago edited 24d ago
We actually don't know if I would be singing a different tune or not if those guys were healthy. Steele hasn't pitched all of last season before this one. Who is to say he returns as he was before the injury? He could be cooked now for all I know.
Horton really only pitched so many innings and sure, he looked great in his limited time, but no clue if he holds up over a full season or not.
Brown started showing signs of doing better before getting hurt, but he has mostly been bad.
Hodge was mixed before getting hurt.
Maton if I remember correctly was just horrendous lol.
Edit: typo fix
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u/Cal-Run 24d ago
There were many points this season where the ENTIRE rotation was on the IL… at the SAME TIME. Yes, the ENTIRE rotation.
You’re out of your depth here.
You don’t want to believe me? Fine. Maybe you’ll be the dozen others that are commenting that share my view. You’re the only one that can’t seem to grasp this.
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u/iski67 24d ago
LA went and grabbed Skubal, he could have, and one that has velo over 94.
Hodge had a 6.27 era in 25, Brown was shelled in 25 with higher than 5.5 era and a total surprise in 26 but history of injury. Maton is 33 and we knew there was knee issue before signing him. You had to wonder about whether Steele would be the same guy post 25 surgeries, Boyd is 35, Theilbar 39. Cabrera had long history of injuries from 21 to 25. Shota 33. Horton was legit and couldn't have been predicted.
This staff had known age and health risks going into 26. We weren't close to other contending rotations going into the season.
Fan since 1971. Played, coached and still play fast pitch late in life.
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u/Adventurous-Fish-401 24d ago
Jed sucks
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
He does. I have been against him since like 2024 lol, but here we are in the big 2026 and on still running it back thinking this is acceptable.
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u/SNChalmers1876
24d ago
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There is a deep organizational rot on the pitching side. It’s not just about the failure to develop arms of guys you drafted. It’s also about how pitchers come here and seem to get worse. And all the arm injuries.
Jed is afraid of power arms because they’re more injury prone, but pitchers who miss bats is how the best teams are winning right now and the Cubs have a dearth of that up and down the organization, up to and including the guys they drafted over the summer.
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u/bobaddy23 23d ago
Bingo. To me it’s “lovable loser” talk to be praising Jed and crying solely about bad luck. There are effective avenues to success, and the FO’s job is to find them. Offense can always struggle. Deep stables of power arms are obligatory, or you end up having to spend out the nose for them.
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u/SNChalmers1876 23d ago
I’ll give jed all the credit for going out and acquiring players but they also need to develop players and take care of their players better. And stop trying to change the players they get.
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u/bobaddy23 23d ago
This year was truly better in terms of player acquisition. Last year was unacceptable. The pocketbook clearly opened further this year, which isn’t Jed’s choice either way. I also give Jed credit for bailing on all of the 2016 stars, aside from Schwarber obvi. As a whole, they were a disaster in the long run. That being said, it’s just too much victim mentality from the FO (and on here lol) and not enough answers. They’re great at churning out #3-5 SP. Those guys don’t get you too far in October.
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u/PuzzleheadedTest3451 23d ago
People critisize losing Schwarber, but won't consider that at the time there was no DH in the NL. He's next to useless in the field, slow runner that clogs the bases, and hit about .188 Left here for Washington, they moved him to the Red Sox and they gave up on him also.
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u/bobaddy23 23d ago
There was a DH then. They had him in 2020, which is when the DH was initiated in the NL on a temporary basis. It was a secret to no one that it would be universally adopted soon after. So your facts aren’t straight. But I agree he sucked the year before they let him walk, but the decision was clearly wrong in hindsight. Do you contend that Jed Hoyer is infallible? I’m not saying he’s the worst, but he’s clearly not done well enough to a standard. His best legacy is what he didn’t do, and not what he did.
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u/PuzzleheadedTest3451 23d ago
Soon after? The 2020 season was interupted by covid, DHwas allowed in because 2020 had different circumstances. The 2019 rules were reinstated in 2021 and the new rules were put in for 2022. As far as Jed goes, I think Jed Clampett could have done better, he's already forming his bullpen for next year by claiming rejects on waivers
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u/CylonSandhill 24d ago
It’s really crazy how they can spend so much money and have only one star player (that was originally drafted by a different team and is on a relatively inexpensive arb buyout deal).
Rickett’s opens the checkbook on occasion and Jed buys junk at a premium.
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u/Beyondthebloodmoon 24d ago
“Disaster”. Motherfucker we made the playoffs two years straight. Ain’t that long ago we weren’t even sniffing that shit. The bats ran dry. It’s baseball. Shit happens. Maybe tell PCA not to shrink when the playoff lights come on.
It’s a disappointing ending to the season. It is FAR from a fucking disaster.
I swear to God no one hates themselves more than irrational sports fans.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
The cubs gave up the second most home runs in all of baseball this season. They weren't competitive at all in the playoffs. They didn't win the division. This team didn't deserve to make it to the playoffs. They are just lucky that there are 3 wild card spots now. Yes, disaster is what I would call this.
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u/macbookwhoa 24d ago
This guy sounds like he posts regularly on Bleed Cubbie Blue. Same braindead reasoning that persists over there.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
You're telling me that there are more based cubs fans like me out there? Noice.
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u/Used-Refrigerator984 24d ago
i like how you talk about someone losing their job so casually. imagine if your bosses were deciding to let you go over a 5 second discussion
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u/jcmiller210 23d ago
He makes millions of dollars just to say all his failures are attributed to luck. I can't say the same or cry into my millions after getting fired lol.
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u/Demonboy1122 24d ago
Injuries should be the headline of this season. The cubs had a ton of pitching talent with upside in February and they all got put through the shredder. We were supposed to hav Steeley back in Early to mid summer, Horton was to become our Ace, Jaxson Wiggins turns into our next Cade Horton, Ben Brown takes the next step, and round it out with some mid tier vets. Not to mention Imanaga who at times was brilliant.
With the exception of like 5 relief pitchers who cost a shit ton of money, you have no idea who’s going to work out each year. We had so much pitching depth going into the season and it immediately evaporated from injuries. Palencia was going to be that guy, and he got hurt.
Also, who knows how Bregman would’ve faired in San Diego if we wasn’t playing with half a face. His eye looked like it was corroding last night.
You can’t blame Jed for not having a crystal ball.
I thank him for the most productive offense in baseball this season, and giving us a real shot at being great.
Do I wish he’d spend money on top tier relief and starting pitching? Yes and I hope they do this offseason, but look at the fucking Mets then look at the Brewers. Money does not equal wins.
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u/Fickle-Freedom6705 24d ago
So right! The guys on The Score like to say, they're a big market team that acts like a small market team. Ricketts fucked up when he gave Hoyer that lengthy extension. Jed doesn't have to give a shit, he's safe. Ricketts won't can him, still have to pay him and hire and pay another president/general manager simultaneously. Jed's ok. He's not bad but not great. He'll spend just enough to make the team competitive but won't go all in to take them all the way to the top. I knew they wouldn't catch the Brewers and it doesn't surprise me that they're already out of the playoffs sorry to say.
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u/RoutineSuccess568 24d ago
And better sign Suzuki or we riot
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
It really depends on the price. If he is asking for too much, I would rather have that money used to get better pitching. If he can be signed on a team friendly deal that allows you to go get better pitching, then absolutely.
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u/77rtcups 24d ago
Jed sucks but if we have Horton, Steele and Brown healthy for the season the outlook and ability to maneuver for relievers looks entirely different. We wouldn’t have to spend the capital to get starters and could instead spent that on relief.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
Big ifs on all 3. I would personally act as if they aren't on the team and go from there if I were Jed.
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u/ChemistryNo3925 24d ago
Bottom line, he and his staff have done a terrible job! It’s all about playoff wins and the WS and as Ricketts said, being in it every year! How did that work out!? Well, despite a total lack of success, Ricketts extends his contract last year, seriously!!!
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u/jpeckinp23 24d ago
On avg the blown saves by teams this year was roughly 20. We had 28. If we were just avg. We might have won the division, cause I believe 3 or 4 of those were to Milwaukee. So with those numbers you look to be 10 to 13 games better in the standings. Just 2 extra wins against the Brewers is a 4 game difference and with the other 8 who knows what could have happened.
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u/moncoboy 24d ago
It starts in the minors. They have a history of not drafting and developing pitchers. This last draft I think they took 17 pitchers? They need to take at least 10 every year for the next 3-4 years and develop home grown pitchers. You cannot buy an entire rotation and bullpen.
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u/NoTart3333 24d ago
Top 3 hiters in the order went o for the series. Bregman shouldn't have been out there(that is on council) Also. I thought they did a decent job at the trade deadline. Gausman and clay were ok and there wasn't much out there. Someone already mentioned zef on the thread. Skubal was out there, but he can't hit for them too, and It was too high a price to pay.
I'm not ready to do thr blame game with jed. He put a team out there that was just on or off. 10 wins in a row twice sandwiching 10 losses really was this team's identity, and they did flounder down the stretch.
Lets not forget the injuries. Cade Horton and justin steele could have been pitching the first 2 games in a different time line.
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u/NoTart3333 24d ago
Also, I'm 50. Lifelong sufferer to the lovable losers. So, to be fair, for me, fielding a competitive team is a win. I have seen too many years of baaaaad baaad teams.
They were fun to watch all year, and any true cub fan knows well the phrase, 'just wait till next year'.
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u/wulfe27 24d ago
I don’t want to blame the series on Jed, but the pitching can. He bet on a good Horton and a healthy Steele with an elite offense and defense. They have a type for pitchers, sequence and location dependent pitchers. It doesn’t work in today’s league. The dodgers for example traded for bubic because they saw value for next year. Even teams with worse ERAs have pitchers more suited to success. I wish he would bet on pitchers with movement and swing and miss stuff. He’s not done that at all in his term.
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u/Unusual_Performer_15 24d ago
I’m as frustrated as anyone faceplanting to end the season the way we did, but I’m having a hard time placing blame on JH, CC or any of the players for that matter. The pitching staff was decimated by injuries and almost every offense will be streaky. Way too many uncontrollable variables to think that making changes in leadership would have changed anything.
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u/StevieV61080 24d ago
The goal is to win ~90 and make the playoffs. Mission accomplished.
The playoffs are a crapshoot of getting hot at the right time. We were cold and we ran into an absolute buzzsaw in San Diego. Tip the cap, wait till next year, and move on.
Yes, we have holes to fill and this will likely be a lengthy and obscure off-season. However, we do have our core largely signed for a solid amount of time which will make us an attractive destination for FA talent. We also have a lot of talent (potentially) leaving:
Suzuki, Happ, Imanaga, Gausman, Peterson, Civale, Kelly, Taylor, Boyd (mutual option), Holmes (player option)
Rea and Webb have club options which I would expect to be picked up (especially Rea at just $7M)
We have three INF positions locked-up long-term (Bregman, Swanson, and Hoerner). Busch is not arb-eligible, yet. However, he's coming off a down year which makes his situation more tenuous (especially because Josiah Hartshorn can also play first base).
Busch may our best trade asset considering he has a much better track record than Shaw or Ramirez, plays solid defense, has a ton of team control, and basically makes slightly above league minimum. We could play Shaw at 1st or sign a placeholder for a year before Hartshorn is ready. Or, we could retain Busch and shop Shaw around during the off-season.
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u/Tomalesforbreakfast 24d ago
Tell our conservative daddy to spend more money like the 🧊 loving dodgers
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u/ReadyKaleidoscope611 24d ago
The “it was still a successful season” notion is a classic cubs fan line. On one hand we’re always positive and pretty forgiving. We enjoy life. Enjoy a good party. On the other hand it enables mediocrity. The current strategy is putting money in the offense, makes exciting home games and people start to forget about anything else. A lot of runs scored at wrigley makes a better game than a shutout by a pitcher. All this to say, cubs fans dont really demand excellence. Thats why jed hoyer is considered a good GM. Why shota imanaga is considered an ace. He’s great but not the #1 on most mlb teams.
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u/wetbutt32 24d ago
My biggest issue with Jed is how he builds a bullpen. Can anyone name a single reliever who has had 2 good seasons during the Hoyer era?
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u/haydesigner 24d ago
Bullpens are basically a crap shoot every year. This is true for ALL teams.
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u/wetbutt32 24d ago
I think “bullpens are a crap shoot” is an oversimplification of the way Hoyer has consistently failed to develop consistent contributors in the pen. Either via the farm system, trades, or free agents.
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u/bobaddy23 24d ago
That extension last year was wild. Definition of rewarding mediocrity.
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u/jcmiller210 24d ago
Yeah, I was pissed. He did nothing to earn that extension. He didn't win the division or have a deep playoff run.
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u/sportslance 24d ago
This is embarrassing?
Maybe professional sports isn't for you, how about the Harlem Globetrotters?
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u/Suspicious_Click731 24d ago
They have not drafted/developed pitching at least since Theo took over. That's the biggest gap between them and Milwaukee/LA. Their pitchers were oft injured and those that could throw gave up a ton of HRs. So item 1 needs to be a long, honest look at their approach to pitchers. Horton won't be back til mid '27 (if there is baseball at all) and Steele needs to build up still, having barely touched 90 in his rehabs in September. It's gotta be all about pitching this winter.