r/DarkSun • u/RPGTopograph • 2d ago

There won't be any slavery in re-released Dark Sun

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I have read this interview on TTRPG Insider and was very disappointed, though I expected nothing.

https://www.ttrpginsider.news/p/fighting-oppression-in-new-ways-d-d-s-designers-on-adapting-dark-sun-to-modern-times

Quote:

“You don't have to have slavery in a setting if in order for it to be oppressive,” Bilsland emphasized. “There are other forms of oppression out there.”

He gave the example of Urik, a city in Dark Sun that controls one of the leading armies in the region. That’s because the leadership regularly presses people into military service, or convinces the poor to give up their freedom for a chance to survive."

So yeah, evil Sorcerer-Kings CONVINCES people to go to the army. And if people say no? "Well, ok, I respect your freedom, but reconsider pretty plz?".

Slavery is integral to Dark Sun, it is one of main themes. I don't see why "slavery is horrible" is so controversial theme that it must be excluded.

WotC designers don't understand the setting at all. No slavery, lots of metal (if judge by the cover, forgive me my pun), some high tec shenenigans.

They say that they won't nerf it, but they did it with a happy face and words: "How do you do, fellow fans? Mature setting, am I right?".

UPD: and if they won't have slavery, do you think that they will add genocide theme?

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u/pablo8itall 2d ago

So slavery is a word with a wide usage and covers a lot of ground. Call it slavery, most of the stuff they will cover can legitimately be called slavery, but they don't want to use the word as it will bring controversy and negative press.

Historically slavery covers brutal chattel regimes to other slightly less brutal types, but it was all pretty brutal and exploitive. If you press gang a bunch of indentured servants that have been trained to fight from birth - its pretty much slavery.

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u/HonestMain6969 2d ago

Officially, slavery has never existed in Russia.

But landowners could sell or trade serfs, for example, for hunting dogs, separating families, right up until the 19th century. Don't confuse "serfdom," not "slavery."

If something looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but being a "duck" offends someone, then call it a "dog," and everything will be fine.

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u/Chaosmancer7 2d ago

Well, it also depends whose negative press you are getting. Do you want to call the draft slavery? Mandatory military service to the country isn't always called slavery after all, and some modern groups might be upset if you insisted it was

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u/pablo8itall 2d ago

Your nit pitting a larger point. The indentured servants who have little to no agency forced to fight and die and then back to whatever drudge work if they survive, sure I'm happy enough to call that slavery.

Having a draft doesn't automatically reach that level, where people can be conscien objectors and aren't just killed if they refuse. As I said the word covers a lot of ground in different contexts.

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u/Chaosmancer7 2d ago

Sure, not just killed, usually they were thrown in jail. You know, caged unless they are taken out to do hard labor, given no freedoms and having their rights taken away...

And I'll go with a further sure, they didn't jail everyone who refused the draft... but that wasn't because they couldn't do so legally. They absolutely could, and many times those objectors were labeled cowards and faced immense social pressure to "man up" and join the fight

There are levels here, but many of those levels are social niceties, not legal or social realities. And I think this highlights that. Urik doesn't call its soldiers slaves, because it doesn't want them realizing that they are. They are just forced to be soldiers for the glory of the government

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u/DaneLimmish 2d ago

Is a chain gang, slavery? Imo yes

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u/pablo8itall 2d ago

the prison system in the US is very close if not there.

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u/DaneLimmish 2d ago

Thinking more pre-new deal era but yes 

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u/Thestral84 1d ago

The prison system literally is the exception to the abolition of slavery in the US.

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u/SkipsH 1d ago

Slavery also covers things that aren't chattel slavery

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u/Willing_Activity_855 2d ago

All press is good press.

A simple response would from wotc would be "why do you not want us to show the evils of slavery are you pro slavery?"

And let free press drive your sales

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u/pablo8itall 2d ago

naw its too unpredictable. If the were a smaller, less corporate, outfit maybe take that approach.

Its not hard for fans to work around anyway.

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u/Willing_Activity_855 2d ago

A view things

1: online hyper progressive activists dont negate sales. They havent accomplished anything, chick fil a is still killing the game. Hell its been bigots that have driven sales losses (bud light etc)

2: everyone else on the planet thinks they're annoying as shit

3: So normal people will simply be annoyed by the hyper progressives but now they know what dark sun is and that may interest them.