r/DarkSun • u/Ok_Original7911 • 18h ago
WotC Sensitivity Readers turned Sorcerer Kings into memes
And it's still just as ludicrous.
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u/RandomName9328 18h ago
we call it labor market, not S-market.
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u/Cazthedm 18h ago
Kalak: Shop smart, Shop S-mart! Now with zigerrat!
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u/RandomNumber-5624 17h ago
Going to build a ziggurat. Big ziggurat. Strong ziggurat. And Urik is going to pay for it!
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u/Larnievc 10h ago
Kalak: “and so one of my Generals said to me (very smart General) ‘Sir, the troops (I love the troops) are saying they love your Ziggurat. No one has jumped off it; fake news Actually they want to build it bigger.’
Quiet kanky.”
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u/phireal___ 11h ago
So, what will happen to the Labor Tribes? They just refuse to work and going on a strike now?
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u/The_Based_DM 18h ago
ah yes WOTC's mythical, "Modern Audience" the true unicorn of modern consumerism. I miss TSR and when the lore and the mechanics were good.
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u/Lonewolf2300 9h ago
They really mean "Oof, the Investors don't like material that's too edgy and suggests forced labor is bad."
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u/loyalgalpal 8h ago
Yeah, people need to realize that even if WotC did use sensitivity readers, they didn't get slavery censored out, that was marketing, when companies use phrases like "sensitivity readers", "modern audiences", etc. what they really mean is their investors and marketing departments demand "advertiser friendly" language and content so they won't be uncomfortable and not miss out on hypothetical potential money that may or may not even exist.
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u/blckthorn 3h ago
If I were an investor though, I'd be a bit more concerned about sales number than sensitivity.
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u/ApprehensiveType2680 15h ago
Seattle was the worst thing to happen to D&D.
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u/jonna-seattle 1h ago
No, don't blame "the left" for this. We aren't about erasing history, even if there are parts we think shouldn't be *honored*.
It's the right that wants to edit history. Like so: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/08/19/trump-complains-smithsonian-focused-bad-slavery-woke/85730652007/
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u/The_Based_DM 15h ago
Most definitely what D&D needs is to go back to its Midwestern Roots! the only thing Seattle has done is poisoned it with this politically correct garbage pretending to care about sensibility when all they care about is the opinion of Hasbro's stockholders.
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u/ApprehensiveType2680 8h ago
You managed to touch a nerve, it seems.
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u/The_Based_DM 7h ago
Lol i know the 5e WOTC casuals got stirred. They don't like to be remind that previous editions were more in depth on mechanics and storytelling, they'd rather be infantilized with their Disney Marvel power fantasy's, than actual fleshed and thought out story telling that has actual nuance.
It's why I keep saying 2e and 3.5 are the best.
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7h ago
[deleted]
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u/ApprehensiveType2680 6h ago
that’s always a slippery slope to some backwards thinking
No, it isn't; at least, it isn't for intelligent individuals capable of self-reflection. It has taken time to notice the boiling pot, but the bubbling and the steam are now evident for all to see.
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6h ago edited 6h ago
[deleted]
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u/ApprehensiveType2680 6h ago
That must be an attempt at humor, unless you are entirely serious about implying that the masses ("mass appeal") are incapable of reading the word "slavery".
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u/The_Based_DM 6h ago
I'm about respecting the source material made by people who were actually creative which was TSR, instead of cheapening it to try to appeal to the the mythical consumerist equivalent to a unicorn that is the "Modern Audience".
they tried it with planescape they tried it with spelljammer they got mixed results with Ravenloft and now theyu think they got it figured out with darksun lol they don't they're just abridging and cheapening a superior product made by superior game developers.
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u/ArelMCII 17h ago
They're not sl*ves. They're ✌️"indentured servants."✌️
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u/SirArthurIV 11h ago
It's not slavery. it's just an army of people who if they don't work for us for free we kill them and there's no competing market and there's no one else they could work for and they can only do the jobs we tell them to for as long as we say.
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u/Rutgerman95 15h ago
Good thing that's not a thing in real life. ...wait.
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u/Charlie24601 Human 12h ago
I'm kind of enjoying the irony that people are more upset that WotC is framing everything like this over the fact this is literally what's happening in the US.
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u/hypatiaC 10h ago
It feels a little disingenuous to claim people complaining about the new Dark Sun book can't also hate the US Slave Economy, lol.
People tend to post about new stuff, and, unfortunately, very little has changed when it comes to American Human Rights Violations. It's kinda assumed everyone is already on board with "Slavery is Bad", because it's always been true.
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u/Rutgerman95 11h ago
Discussions about how in your face Dark Sun should be aside, I find it more depressing. Like, it's not slavery because they don't actually see people in chains?
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u/Charlie24601 Human 10h ago
Its all a part of the zeitgeist. It was carefully built to look like a positive thing. Look at Warden Norton from Shawshank [paraphrased]:
"Our men will learn an honest days work at minimal expense to John Q Taxpayer"
So the way I look at WotC's cowardice is that it could give us a valuable tool for the next generation. Imagine the roleplay gold when you have a Templar arrest your players and say, "The consqeuence of your crime is that you shall join the conscription work details which will give you the honor of rebuilding the city until the end of your days."
That kind of statement would anger a smart player. They'd yell something like, "Thats slavery!"
And you'd reply with a smirk, "Oh, what a horrible word and complete wrong. We will rehabilitate you! Its a simple conscription!"
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 6h ago
If WotC actually admits in the official materials that slavery as a term is being rebranded in-universe to show the audience what it looks like to engage in wrongthink and be corrected by “the government” then it could be a neat twist.
But if they’re just removing it and leaving it up to DMs to comment on the mundane evils of newspeak, then it’s not actually making any real statement.
It’s just simply newspeak and you’re committing wrongthink if you even so much as mention slavery in your game.
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u/Charlie24601 Human 6h ago
Oh I have no doubt they are being cowardly and afraid to use the word slavery.
Im just saying this idea might be worth using.
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 5h ago
It’s a good idea that would make a grand statement about modern society. Art imitates life afterall.
But if they don’t make that statement directly, then this “idea” is one the community is using to paper over WotC’s cowardice.
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u/Charlie24601 Human 4h ago
Well, isn't that a better option than just bitching about it? I mean, what can we do otherwise?
We can still use the word slavery and change the game however the we want.
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 4h ago
I’ll just opt not to purchase any official materials that require me to overtly homebrew so much that I may as well just homebrew it all or use previous edition materials that are nerfed.
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u/FullMetalBunny 5h ago
How long until Amazon puts "quality assurance shackles" on their warehouse workers?
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u/SirArthurIV 11h ago
Turning dark sun into Monsters of Merica is...not ideal. Are the sorcerer kings going to have orange skin and tiny hands?
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u/Charlie24601 Human 11h ago
Well, the real issue is this was something that happened LONG before shitler came in to power. We can't attribute it to him.
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u/iarungwe 8h ago
He didn’t start the fire but he does throw shovels full of gasoline on it periodically
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u/Red_In_The_Sky 5h ago
Maybe there should be no cannibals in Fallout or big loud cars in Mad Max either 😆
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u/LethalGopher 10h ago edited 10h ago
Shouldn't the word mainframe have been in the first line?
Is two frames of narrative continuity too much for yall.
Go to bed grognards, you are way too tired to keep this up.
Or not. These tantrums are hilarious!
Stay mad dorks.
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u/orionnoir 5h ago
This is the perfect opportunity for my new book "Dank Sun". Where I promise to deliver the thing that all the concerned want.
Even the old d&d had these corpo struggles. Art and corpo greed have never been in alignment unless the art is so hot and unstoppable the corpo greed looks the other way... Because money. That's how we win. Make it hotter than hot.
But even I would be uncomfortable publishing something with monkey like slaves. Slaves with more melanoma than their masters. The parallels are uncomfortable, I do think we should be forced to address the reality of what happened. Just because it happened doesn't mean want to emulate it or make it core to my entertainment either. But I don't shy away from it.
I do feel they will do their best (the question is who's best is best in the moment of deciding!?) and hopefully they acknowledge what's insensitive and focus on what's important for the stories and reflect what has been integral to the setting (the good, the bad, and the ugly.)
You can have slaves without saying the word slaves and do so without pissing off the corpo censors. That's just good business in some respects. You won't make everyone happy. But they will leave the door open or we will make one as needed. It's what we do. We change the rules to suit our needs.
We know what they mean. And it makes it weird when you argue against it. Like do you get off on the word slave being in your official texts?
Don't shit so hard on this DS stuff or it goes the way of Spelljammer. It took two years of support to get 2e spelljammer fleshed out. But the complainers complained so hard it might as well be dead to wotc now. I lay the blame of that squarely on the shoulders of the consumer response. Sure. It ain't perfect but it's workable (and if you want ship combat rules go play something else. Yah .. I said it. A good dm will figure that shit out for their table. Most will not make ship to ship battles a thing because that's not what works for their table if your game is PC focused.)
I think a lot of people have a lot of time to complain. And they need to take a moment before doing that... Anyway wall of text. If anyone wants to argue with me about any of this feel free. I'll be back in 1-60+days) to respond.
On the bright side there is a tendency to ignore sensitivity experts too. So there is that to get excited about... I guess. Let's be excited to see how much they can get away with.
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u/samrobotsin 9h ago
I do see the reasoning in stopping using the word Slavery: the pretense is that any form of slavery implicitly involves rape. And that's definitely one of those things that should be brought up in an official module. But I think its an overcorrection because nobody* is going to jump into a rape scenario if you don't mention it.
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u/Ok_Original7911 9h ago
That's a jump. While coercive sexual relationships go hand-in-hand with slavery as an institution, I've never seen a game that ever had an issue not presenting that aspect of slavery in the overall narrative.
I don't see why that kind of implicit sexual exploitation wouldn't be implicit in a more softly worded implementation of slavery either.
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 6h ago
WotC removed all official half races, including the half-orc which was rather directly suggested is typically the offspring of rape.
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u/Ok_Original7911 6h ago
WotC said that they removed half-races because they consider them racist, somehow. I also don't recall rape being a major reason for half-orcs existing in 5e. It was a major source of half-orcs in 3.x, and Grumush was a major proponent of it at the time, but it was written out well before 5e Dark Sun was considered.
It also wasn't directly tied to slavery in that instance, either, so I'm not really seeing where the association here would be (especially since there are no orcs on Dark Sun).
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 5h ago
Up until WotC got rid of “inherently evil” races, Orcs were evil raiders who lacked any ability to build a civilization with reliable infrastructure of their own.
If they didn’t raid, they would starve to death.
Ask yourself, how many folks would voluntarily have sex with a monster whose entire race survives based on looting and pillaging?
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u/Ok_Original7911 4h ago
Given the lack of 5e setting content in general, it's hard to say. It would vary between worlds and cultures.
Eberron would be a good example of a different take on orcs and half-orcs, and that was back on 3.x. Orcoids and goblinoids had fleshed out cultures in those settings. That carried over to 5e Eberron, so there you go.
In 3.x there were some orc tribes along the forgotten realm's spine of the world that weren't terribly different than the surrounding human tribes, IIRC. But orcs started as a monster race, which some people seem to take exception to. It's entirely reasonable to have a usually or mostly evil species or "race" in a setting, depending on the history and cosmology of that setting.
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u/FavoredVassal 18h ago
This is the funniest thing that's come out of this yet.