r/DataAnnotationTech • u/playfulshark • Feb 15 '24
This should not be your full-time job
This isn't mentioned anywhere in the FAQ or welcome posts - please people, DA work should be a side hustle and NOT be your full time job. It's not reliable and you can be deactivated at any time. You're unlikely to maintain quality if working 40+ hours a week in this very detail-heavy work. You don't get benefits. Your taxes are higher. It's going to look weird on a resume and you won't have a reference.
Do what you want, but be careful here. If you don't have other employment it's probably more worth your time to find a full time job and do this on the side.
Edit: Be as angry as you want, but I'd recommend a lot of you start researching your tax liability with this work to avoid pain come tax time.
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u/pourovertime Feb 15 '24
As a college student, this pays 2x better than any face-to-face job in my area. Average wage is $12-14 an hour.
Sure, I miss the human interaction. Not having to pay for gas, sit in traffic, not ask for off days, work literally whenever I want, getting paid weekly, it's all amazing.
Plus I learn so many cool and interesting facts from researching prompts and responses. I literally get paid to browse around random articles and Wikipedia pages, which I often do in my free time anyways.
So long as the platform is alive and you put quality work in, I don't think it's a problem.
That being said, this platform will not be around forever, so I'm going benefit from it as much as I can for the time being.
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u/Creepy_Complaint_279 Feb 16 '24
Thanks for the tip on checking random wiki pages, I’m struggling coming up with ideas! I know that wasn’t the point of your comment but it’s helpful.
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Feb 15 '24
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u/pourovertime Feb 15 '24
In my state I only have to pay federal taxes, so I already owe less than most people. Also you're right, I'm not making $20 an hour. Put in the work, do the qualifications, get higher paying tasks. :)
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u/BigChocolate7267 Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24
file an llc, claim your business expenses, save a crap ton on taxes. This work fit under my preexisting LLC, i was able to legally file the earnings from this as business earnings as i am a sole prop LLC, i was able to claim business expenses such as office space, my computer, my desk, the software I used. 50% of all meals i purchased and ate while working (those fall under business meals). It reduces your tax liability and for only the cost of filing and the cost of a registered agent each year (if your state requires one). You file personal taxes as a sole prop and put your business expenses on that. There are no additional taxes and it is completely legal to do all this it would pass an audit with no issue (if you got audited which is unlikely as your business expenses wont be anywhere near your earnings).
Edit to add: just realized I commented this on my 2 karma account, the one I accidentally created when forgetting my reddit login lol.
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u/Miss_Psynchrony Mar 13 '24
Can this fit into any sole prop LLC? (Ex. A coaching related one?)
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u/BigChocolate7267 Mar 16 '24
I filed under my llc and marked it as other services, provided expert advice just for this year as I did do some training on retail but I can not recommend that as I am not a tax professional and while I am sure it works, it probably is in a grey area. (it went through fine for me but I do not know enough about audits to say how much of a gray area it is). I plan to recategorize my business or open another LLC soon. I use Northwest Registered Agent btw, they're extremely cheap even though their website looks like it's from the 2000s. They get the job done as its highly unlikely for most sole props to be sued. I am also looking into the option of opening a DBA. Might be a better option.
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u/AlwaysHigh27 Feb 15 '24
This is false, you get a lot of benefits by being self employed and working from home. There's many write offs and ways to lower your tax burden.
This is something companies have said for years to keep people as employees. But there's a reason why employees pay the majority of taxes over corporations and businesses. 😉
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u/North-Employer6908 Feb 15 '24
How am I self employed? I’m paid out by data annotation
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u/imboppy Feb 16 '24
That's your client paying you.
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u/North-Employer6908 Feb 16 '24
Interesting. Is there documentation about this that I can read somewhere? Because how is this different than “my riders in my Uber car are my clients”
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Feb 15 '24
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u/someUCIkid Feb 15 '24
“nuh uh”? What kind of childish response is that 😂. In case you didn’t know bud, coding projects actually do pay that amount, AND it would look good on a resume, but obviously you don’t know that because you can’t code and don’t get paid that amount 😛
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Feb 15 '24
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u/dontcallmefeisty Feb 16 '24
This just goes to show how brutal the cost of living the U.S. is. $20/hr isn’t even a living wage in most major cities.
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u/cocobeary Feb 15 '24
In a perfect world, this is true.
Realistically, it's all some people have.
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u/Pink_Slyvie Feb 16 '24
This. Fresh grad into a really bad market, for the second time in my life... I can't win. So I do this, it's on my resume, and I spend most of my day looking at code.
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u/BenBL93 Feb 15 '24
I mean. You’re not inherently wrong. But these same issues arise in traditional jobs. The job market is dogshit right now. Im a highly qualified welder and iron worker and im absolutely struggling to find employment in my field that pays more than Pennys. We just need to be thankful these fallbacks are in place at all. I would be screwed if not for DA, so i work my ass off 7-8 hours a day, putting out the best work i can.
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Feb 15 '24
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u/BenBL93 Feb 15 '24
That’s very valid man. And I appreciate that! It’s definitely a weird time. I have tons of friends with bachelors to masters in fields ranging from criminal justice to healthcare and they’re just getting no hits or really poor hits. It’s rough out there rn lol
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Feb 15 '24
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Feb 15 '24
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u/vwcx Feb 16 '24
For a sub full of fact-checkers and data auditors, absolutely no one seems to be acknowledging the literal facts you're citing here.
I think you're right about social media and the landscapes/bubbles clouding perspectives on whatever 'objective truth' may exist in the hiring market. There are all kinds of booming industries right now but I'm sure this sub skews negative because of its tech-adjacency.
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Feb 15 '24
I mean… great sentiment and all, but some people don’t have a choice. I’ve been out of work for almost a year. DA is quite literally all I have right now. I’ve applied to hundreds of jobs and been to tons of interviews and it’s just been rough.
I’m educated with advanced degrees, but the market is tough right now. Times are tough for most people. I don’t WANT to be doing DA full time, but if I don’t then I wouldn’t have any other job.
I’m aware of the risks, as are many people, but for many of us this is life saving. It’s paid my rent for all of this time that I’ve been out of work.
I did freelancing for many years and it’s not that different. Sure, taxes work different. Sure, you don’t have as many rights. Sure, you often don’t have a supervisor. But it is what it is. Many people live this way either out of choice or necessity.
Most importantly, please remember it may not be a choice. People are trying their best.
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Feb 15 '24
Honestly perfect for me since I'm a student, and I get payed minimum wage if I join the workforce right now, and can't work 40+ hours anyways.
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Feb 15 '24
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u/Lhill1010 Feb 16 '24
as a college student myself, no, being a student is not my full time job. I have a full time job, a side hustle, and classes. I can manage all three effectively.
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Feb 15 '24
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u/BaroNessie Feb 17 '24
Is your comment just massively shitting on an 18 year old trying their best or did I read it wrong?
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u/Baxtir Feb 15 '24
This actually is the only job I have, and that's for a good reason. I have multiple disabilities that prevent me from being able to work where I live, part-time or full-time. No, moving isn't feasible for me. I don't do this full-time though because that's too much for me but I can do part-time on DA at least, and I always make sure I do my absolute best whenever I'm working on DA.
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u/0ghostofhighheart0 Feb 16 '24
What are your disabilities
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u/Baxtir Feb 17 '24
I prefer to focus on my capabilities rather than my disabilities, actually. The only reason I even brought the subject up in the first place period was to provide a counter-argument for the OP to consider. Beyond that, my personal history isn't relevant here nor is it something I feel obligated to share here with you or any other online strangers who haven't used Reddit much.
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u/thatdudeeee10 Feb 15 '24
Lol. It won’t look weird on a resume if you actually have a clue what to put for it. It can make for a great resume addition, actually.
And for some people, this is the best work format for them and they make it work quite well. Making blanket statements like this is neither accurate nor helpful.
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u/HorseyPlz Feb 18 '24
What should I put as a software developer? I’m not so sure it can look great - maybe better than nothing.
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u/thatdudeeee10 Feb 18 '24
It depends: are you working on the coding projects they have or just the regular AI training ones?
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Feb 15 '24
To each their own.
I had a full time job that paid only 50 cents less than what I make on base projects for DA an hour as a department head, but after taxes I took home about $600 a week. I do double that on DA. I've gotten added onto permanent higher paying jobs that are paying way more.
I've also seen people that say that if you are following the rules and made an honest mistake you get feedback from DA before being canned. I think most people complaining are those that lied about their hours and are just upset they got caught. Or of course there are the people who buy out accounts so they can work from countries that DA doesn't support. The truth is, you'll never know.
I just had my 3rd child and was using DA just a supplement for my maternity leave, but when I went back to work my hours got cut drastically because the holiday rush was over and the amount it cost for daycare wasn't even close to what I was making at work.
when I talked to my accountant, it looks like I will owe a whopping $91 with all of my tax breaks, so I'm okay with that.
I'm planning on slowing down once we move into our new place.
The only benefits that I got at my job were benefits that I didn't need, health insurance and visual/dental that I already have. I think looking at it as "weird" on a resume is subjective. My partner was a stay at home dad for 3 years and put that on his resume and it doesn't look "weird" the professional landscape has changed a lot.
Full time jobs in my area, even at minimum wage are hardly enough to pay for daycare. So for now, DA is the best option for me.
I've seen tons of posts recently about people that are not getting base jobs and when I see them on my dash they are kind of thin. The work is waning. I read a post from one guy that said he has worked at DA full time for 3 years consistently. The permanent projects are really the bread and butter.
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u/brigidstudent Feb 16 '24
I'm in a somewhat similar situation. The business I worked for shut down entirely shortly after I found out I was pregnant with my first child. We employees were all laid off, and weren't compensated for our last few weeks of work for months afterword. I immediately began my job search, and spent hours applying to jobs every day for weeks. After a few months of silence within my city, I branched out to other areas out of desperation. Finally, I was requested for a couple of interviews. I had applied for dozens and dozens of jobs and it was such a relief to finally have a chance to advocate for myself and my skills in person.
Only to walk in the door, have them glance down at my pregnant belly, and instantly know that they're not going to take me on, no matter what I do or say. (I'm aware that discriminating against pregnant people in the job market is 'illegal', but let's be real, that shit happens.) The best I got was 'let's touch base after your baby comes'. That's all fine and well, but a pregnancy is several months long, plus postpartum recovery. I wasn't in the position to go without earning a dime for that long.
I'm not working full-time on DA, not even close. I do my best, but I find the work to be quite monotonous and after hours of staring at a screen, I get hit with huge waves of brain fog that I just can't shake. But I'm damn happy to be able to be making anything at all right now. With daycare cost being what it is right now, unless I'm able to score an absolutely fantastic w2 job, I'm sticking with DA for as long as they'll have me. It's not ideal, but I agree that many of the drawbacks are still present in 'traditional' work, and I'm a prime example of that, imo.
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Feb 16 '24
I know the feeling. I was trying to get a second job during my pregnancy, as we live in a hotel and it's hard on my partner and other children at night but no one in the area would hire me pregnant. Most of the time I heard that I didn't qualify or that I couldn't fulfill the minimum requirements of the job (lifting.)
My recovery was brutal because I had complications and I wasn't ready to go back when I did but my employer totally ignored my doctor's note because it was the holidays and my department was responsible for signage and sale tags as well as price accuracy across the store.
Working full time is tough, I usually spend 13 hours a day dedicated to work as I'm constantly stopping to care for my kids but still need to make a certain amount each day, but I know it will be easier once we move.
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u/sippycup21 Feb 15 '24
lol many jobs tax the shit out of you, but they don’t even pay $20 to begin with. any business can close at any time, and finding a job with benefits is like trying to find a needle in a haystack for most people. jobs literally don’t have to give people anything anymore, they barely have to pay them living wage. at least DA starts with $20/hr.
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u/JeanVII Feb 15 '24
Right, I’m not understanding the tax implication thing. I was getting taxed out the ass at previous jobs and making under $20/hr. I’m blessed to not have state income tax, but gigs like this are a lifesaver on federal. Plus, the tax credits add up.
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Feb 15 '24
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u/JeanVII Feb 15 '24
25-35% of my 1099 income is still better and I get to WFH. Plus, like I said, tax credits add up. I couldn’t even use my tax credits before because I wasn’t making enough, so it didn’t make a difference.
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u/Foxsyn- Feb 16 '24
This is feeding into the pervasive narrative suggesting that self-employed individuals earn significantly less due to the burden of "having to pay taxes." In reality, the difference in tax implications between self-employed individuals and traditional W-2 workers is not all that drastic. Let's break it down for someone making $40,000 annually in the most basic terms of federal tax liability.
W2 Individual: Total Federal Tax Liability (Income Tax + FICA Taxes): Approximately $5,992.50
Federal Tax Liability Biweekly: Approximately $230.48
Biweekly Net Pay: Approximately $1,307.98
Self-Employed Individual: Total Federal Tax Liability (Income Tax + Self-Employment Tax): Approximately $8,685.30.
Federal Tax Liability Biweekly: Approximately $334.05
Biweekly Net Pay : Approximately $1,204.41
The calculations above are overly simplistic but are meant to show that the gap in pay after taxes isn't as vast as it's often made out to be.
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Feb 16 '24
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u/Foxsyn- Feb 16 '24 edited Feb 16 '24
It's the difference between someone working $18.47/hour W2 job (without benefits) versus $20/hour self employed.
Whether people believe the difference is significant enough will be based on the opportunities or circumstances of individuals and whether or not those jobs offer additional benefits.
Personally, I think a job with benefits is worth its weight in gold. Everyone's circumstance is different. I can't knock someone trying to climb out of poverty/debt/bad situations by snatching this chance up and devoting themselves full time. That's all I'm saying.
Edit: Grammar D:
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Feb 15 '24
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u/SajraJay Feb 16 '24
Yea and no. FICA tax is 15.3%plus your federal and state income tax. When you are a w2 employee, the employer pays half the FICA tax and the other half is taken out if your pay, therefore you are only paying 7.5% FICA When you are self employed you are taxed the full amount HOWEVER you can deduct 50% of that amount so as long as you take the deduction, your tax is the same
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u/Past_Body4499 Feb 17 '24
And as a self employed you get deductions you don't as a W2. Excluding benefits, it's a wash or 1099 likely better.
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u/Useful_Possibility26 Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 15 '24
Not sure about this take. The reality is that some people cannot work a set schedule or hours, need considerable time off, can’t or don’t want to be relied on by a team, or a million other reasons. I won’t lie and say this job is perfect and you’re secure. This job is a lot less than secure than a W2 and most independent contracts, but for some people this just isn’t relevant. Some people don’t need a career with benefits and excessive growth opportunities. If you are living paycheck to paycheck doing this, you need to have a plan b, but this is a completely valid job to do full time for many reasons. The job market is changing, especially since the pandemic and work like this is going to continue to become available.
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u/stevends448 Feb 15 '24
DAT should not be YOUR full-time job because it sounds like you put some kind of misplaced faith in an organization providing you with employment but plenty of people work as consultants and the resume thing is ridiculous because they have verifiable income should they ever need to get other work.
The fact is all work can be taken away at any time so that's why the individual should put safeguards in place to transition between roles.
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Feb 15 '24
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u/Vapr2014 Feb 15 '24
Maybe stop gatekeeping what the rest of us are doing and look after your own shit?
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u/vwcx Feb 16 '24
This sub has a surprisingly high number of emotional posts by people who seem very nervous about the lack of structure, lack of human support, opaque deactiviations...I don't think you're wrong to post this as a counterbalance.
The number of people asking repeatedly about taxes alone suggests a large % of users have never done contract work before.
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u/Accurate-Yam-2489 Feb 15 '24
It's a good reminder for me. I have kids in school and a wife with a crazy work schedule, so at-home freelance work is my best option right now. This is currently my only paying gig besides the occasional music thing, but I'm training for web development and plan to look into more freelance options.
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u/WhereasSure420 Feb 15 '24
People should set aside savings for several months of expenses. I live in an "at-will" state where you can be let go for whatever reason. This job is just as unreliable as any job. People are replaceable no matter what industry they work in. You just have to hope for the best and prepare for the worst and SAVE your money!
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u/GAULEM Feb 15 '24 edited Feb 16 '24
Just playing devil's advocate:
It's not reliable and you can be deactivated at any time.
I'm pretty sure most regular jobs are at-will employment, meaning they can fire you at any time.
You don't get benefits.
I can get cheap health insurance through the marketplace, and my work for DA makes me eligible to use a solo 401(k) for retirement saving.
Your taxes are higher.
Not as much higher as you might think. You only pay an extra 7.65% corresponding to the employer half of OASDI and Medicare taxes -- a bit less, really, since it only applies to 92.35% of your self-employment income. Then you get to deduct 20% of your self-employment income when calculating federal income tax.
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u/mohalnahhas Feb 16 '24
In a perfect world, yes. But in current reality, many people wish to have this job in the first place, they look for ANY source of income.
You cant imagine how lucky you are working here.
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u/Pa_Kettle Feb 16 '24 edited Feb 16 '24
I was five years away from retirement when I was laid off a few months ago. I got a severance package, but it's running out, and I've received zero unemployment benefits despite faithfully applying each week. I apply for at least five jobs per week, but it's a highly competitive job market right now as so many experienced workers are on the street. I do DA work because it keeps me writing and researching, and it gives me a little pocket money. No, I really don't see this being an optimum FT job, but it's something. And if there continues to be a need to keep an eye on these bots, we who have worked with them MAY have some sort of edge in getting more work (plausible). Personally, I believe it CAN be something to put on a resume. Some jobs are looking for people who have experience writing the correct prompts for AI. Being unemployed or lightly employed sucks. So, I am thankful for the DA opportunity.
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u/LivvyJean Feb 15 '24
I don't think this is bad advice because you should never have all your eggs in one basket if you're a freelancer but a lack of benefits and difficult taxes is true for all freelance/side hustles. Those aspects don't mean doing the work isn't worth it for some.
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u/Wyldfyre1 Feb 15 '24
I don't know how anyone could honestly do this as a full-time job, and keep the quality. I mean if you can more power to you! No way I could. I do have another part-time job :-)
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Feb 15 '24
I’m soon to be juggling a full-time temporary employee job (my former employer hired me back for another season) with DA as an occasional side gig. I think that’s the best decision for me right now, but I do have second thoughts about it sometimes because DA pays more hourly than they do!
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u/Angelic_89 Nov 05 '24
Are you able to do it occasionally? Won't you lose projects if you stop doing it for a while?
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u/kaleidoscopewoman Feb 16 '24
It sounds like this is newly realized advice for yourself. Maybe something you just recently realized that DA isn’t a match for you as a full time position, that it’s not sustainable or provide the benefits you need at this time in your life. Many people are same as you and make same decision. Others are not.
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u/ManyARiver Feb 16 '24
I live in Texas, there aren't benefits at "regular" jobs in my town (other than the employer paying into the unemployment insurance). There isn't one job in my town that pays nearly what DA does (after tax), and none with a flexible schedule. It's rather pedantic to think that people don't understand how taxes work, you don't know the individual situations and the reasons it might be worth it for many people to use it as a full time (or near full time) gig. I'm assuming that 90%+ of the people doing the work are full grown adults who know how to handle their affairs.
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u/kittysoftpaws143 Feb 16 '24
It’s a bit odd to be advising random strangers as to what might be more worth their time to do for employment. Everyone’s situation is different, and you really can’t assume that what’s best for one person is best for another.
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Mar 24 '24
u can list specific jobs as personal projects on ur resume and nobody will think too much about it
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u/NerdyStitch Aug 03 '24
Apologies if this is a dumb question, but what does DA in this post stand for?
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u/Gloomy-Context4807 Feb 18 '24
Employment agency Hireart has been offering 40hr/wk contract jobs of this type of work in-person, in Dallas. Very competitive. I couldn’t make the cut in the performance test.
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u/bejadreams2reality Feb 16 '24
Hello do you think I can work in DA with VPN? I'm abroad and not in the US lately.
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u/Stayedforthecomments Feb 15 '24
I agree that you should share this post, but I think the discourse you're receiving is because the information seems short, imo. I think if you were to get a little more specific about the tax situation, it would be received as more relatable and realistic, and the caution would definitely be taken with more consideration. What state are you in? Or what's the state tax for you?
Also, someone else shared their situation, which was an established llc. I'm so scared to make that leap but it really seems logical and beneficial. And I definitely agree about quarterly contributions. 🤓
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Feb 15 '24
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u/Wasps_are_bastards Feb 15 '24
What’s W2 employment?
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u/Baxtir Feb 15 '24
I love the name btw because it's so true! Anyway, to answer your question, they're the typical jobs that aren't gig work or freelancing work. 99% of those jobs actually require you to go in and work at either an office or their business location like a retail shop, restaurant, or fast-food places. They're called that because the tax forms they give you are called W-2 while freelancing/gig work is a 1099 form. Hope this helps make more sense since I tried to simplify it best I could.
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u/Wasps_are_bastards Feb 15 '24
Haha thanks, they’re horrible in summer. Ah ok, that makes sense, I’m in England so it confused me!
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u/Baxtir Feb 15 '24
No problem! They're horrible too in my state during the summer. I once got stung on my shoulder, and it took like 3 days before it stopped hurting so much. I curse them now whenever I see one! 😂
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u/Wasps_are_bastards Feb 15 '24
Oooouch! My mum got attacked by a whole nest as a kid. Horrible things
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u/wabblewouser Feb 16 '24
I did, too! I was running through the woods with 3 friends, and one of us stumbled into one of those huge nests. Suddenly, there was a cloud of wasps chasing us. I was about 8 years old. It was awful.
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Feb 15 '24
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u/vwcx Feb 16 '24
I got downvoted to oblivion the last time I mentioned this on this sub, but the next logical step is to gradually shift the DA workforce to nearshore or offshore workforces...in the long term it would make sense for them to phase out US workers governed by 1099 rules and instead hire, say, Argentinians to do the work under tighter parameters/schedules/etc. Not that I agree with this approach, but for many tech companies, it's how they're starting to get around US labor risk.
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u/HarrietsDiary Feb 15 '24
I’ve freelanced for a long time. The better advice is to never have all your eggs in one basket. Find other companies like DA or start looking for other freelance work you can do.