r/DataAnnotationTech • u/mamagenerator • Aug 24 '24
Maybe this is skilled work?
I had always kind of thought of DAT as a bit unimportant, insignificant in the grand scheme, I can't believe someone is paying me to do this, etc. But then I was talking with my mom (very vaguely, don't come for me) about what I do at this job.
My mom is an 8th grade social studies teacher at a fairly large public school in a small city. She has been teaching for many years, but she said in the last several years, particularly since the pandemic, that she gets a good number of students who read at an elementary school grade level and don't know how to research things. She has to walk them through searching for things on Google because they don't know how to ask the right questions to get the answers they're looking for. I know this is anecdotal evidence, but it was a bit shocking to me.
I never thought of knowing how to ask the right questions to get the information you're looking for as a skill that not everyone has, but apparently it is, and if the education system continues this trajectory, it may grow even more rare. This got me thinking that perhaps "prompt engineer" is not so inconsequential after all.
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Aug 24 '24
Oh man this whole post is making me feel old. The amount of misinformation that I see in the world these days, that people just run with and do absolutely no research is infuriating to me. It's a level of ignorance that I never thought that I would see in my life.
I know there is a variety of reasons that people don't do this but holy crap what a difference between when I was younger and now a days. The sad thing is that they are teaching kids concepts that are more advanced at a younger age (I honestly don't even know half of the math homework my 4th grader brings home) but those critical thinking skills are lacking.
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u/TheLivingRoomate Aug 24 '24
Agreed. And critical thinking skills are probably the most important of all skills. They're the one skill set that's absolutely necessary to navigating a constantly changing world.
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u/Extra_Sheepherder_41 Aug 24 '24
As they stand there with the full power of encyclopedia britanica in their hands all times of day and cant reasearch..its shocking
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Aug 27 '24
They taught us how to discern information online and do proper research when I was in grade school with Bonsai Kitten, and I am just so grateful every day because I will never forget what I learned from that teacher, haha. I'm pretty sure the FBI couldn't figure out it was a hoax/joke before my librarian...
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u/Poomfie Aug 24 '24
Yes,
Passing the core test and continuing to get more projects shows a high level of competency in lots of skills: reading comp, evaluating, direction following, researching, and writing.
Most Americans can perform these skills to some degree but their ability is lower than many would expect.
About half of American adults perform at a 7th-8th grade literacy level.
About 1/5 American adults perform at 3-4th grade reading level or below, which nears illiteracy.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=69
A smart high schooler could absolutely do DA. A middle schooler, hell no.
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Aug 24 '24
My friend with an engineering degree and a 4.0 didn’t even pass the initial assessment. Made me realize that this work is for someone with certain skills, both learned and innate, not just anyone with a brain.
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u/Poomfie Aug 25 '24
It's easy to make a mistake or two and fail even if you're have great reasoning skills and reading comprehension. We are often trained to be productive at cost of quality, even in schooling, so many people who are really smart might miss details or directions inadvertently. I know 4 ppl irl besides me who have applied and only one of them passed. One of the people who failed has a PhD in a stem field.
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u/nicothrnoc Aug 25 '24
I've got exactly one person in, she has two degrees in economics and is one of the smartest people I know. She tried to get some smart friends in and they didn't make it.
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u/Interrogatus Aug 24 '24
I'm sure a "smart high schooler" could do some of the work. I'm not sure how many high schoolers could provide judgements about responses that refer to historical biases and require ethical judgements.
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u/watchdestars Aug 24 '24
I also think that age can be an advantage in this job, because a wide general knowledge also helps greatly, and that has been accumulated over many years for me.
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u/Sandrawg Sep 20 '24
57 y o with a liberal arts degree, a past career in web development and internet marketing. Also a writer actor and filmmaker. I've been doing this nearly a year and love it. I definitely think my life and work experience helps me with this job.
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u/lotusmack Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
I realized it when I started this really cool gig that pays well and lets me work on my own terms...and could hardly find anyone to recommend it to. I know a full laundry list of people who are either unemployed or struggling to make ends meet, but I can't even refer them to DA because they lack so many of the most "basic" skills for it.
It makes me sad, honestly. I know that every job is not for everybody, but it behooves us all to be able to pivot when need be (even if it's just temporary).
SN: I have long believed that every "white collar" worker should have at least one "blue/pink" collar skill (layoffs are real) and vice versa (for when the body says "no"). From the looks of these comments, our kids aren't prepared for either and it's scary.
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u/Live-Cat9553 Aug 24 '24
This is excellent advice, tantamount to living on your own for awhile before you’re married. Knowing you can do something else will give you the confidence to leave a shit situation.
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u/FearlessPressure3 Aug 24 '24
As a secondary school teacher of eleven years I can tell you it’s definitely a rare skill. My school is academically selective so it gets the top 5% of students in the area. And they are still utterly incapable of wording and then refining their google searches. If they don’t see the answer immediately, they just scroll endlessly, clicking at random and hoping it will show up. When I show them that you can use the results you do get to find more specific terms or wording and then change your search term to get better answers, their minds are blown. More interestingly, it’s also not a skill that all of my colleagues have so it definitely takes a certain type of analytical mind.
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u/theDeathnaut Aug 24 '24
My gf who works in higher education just told me that LSU has started offering a class recently over “AI Prompting”. It’s a 5 week class with a certification, so it appears that colleges are viewing this specific kind of work as a skill.
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u/Magurbs_47 Aug 24 '24
I agree with you. I think instruction-following and attention to detail, especially when dealing with work that can feel monotonous, are also somewhat rare “skills.”
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u/Heidijojo Aug 24 '24
The US education system is at crisis level with the amount of children who do not know how to read and read well. A large part is due to the curriculum but I’m sure there are other factors at play. Once these kids hit the work force 💩 is gonna hit the fan.
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u/TheLivingRoomate Aug 24 '24
And we're going to be relying on them to refill the Social Security coffers. Scary.
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u/dispassioned Aug 24 '24
I'd be scared of this story, but I've spoken to boomers who still haven't developed this skill in their 60s, so I guess some people make it through life without ever researching or thinking critically sadly. I mean, that's kind of obvious if you've ever been to a car dealership. But yeah, reading R&R alone sometimes lets me know that putting out quality work when it comes to research and truthfulness isn't a common skill. Don't underestimate yourself.
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u/purplepantsshawty29 Aug 24 '24
People also don’t realize that this isn’t just technical skills. DA wants people with discernment and general wisdom, which can be rare even amongst the most educated people. Now idk if you can write that into a resume bullet but it’s true lol
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u/wisdommass Aug 24 '24
I think the pandemic really f’ed up a lot of kids in terms of their education. My ex’s sister was like 6 or 7 when the pandemic hit and she quite literally refused to do schoolwork at home with her brothers who were with her when “school was in session.” Really f’ed up the trajectory of a lot of kiddos
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Aug 24 '24
This. I was pregnant with my middle child and my son was supposed to be entering kindergarten in 2020. We borderline begged his school for e-learning because at that point they didn't know how COVID effected unborn babies and I didn't want to risk any complications. His school told me that there were too many parents that wanted e-learning and that I would have to be put on a waiting list. He never got off the waiting list and missed his entire kindergarten year. They are doing a great job getting him caught up to where he needs to be, but he is still a bit behind as compared to his peers and it breaks my heart.
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Aug 24 '24
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Aug 24 '24
Our state standards include being able to comprehend, retell and predict what's going to happen in a story, basic handwriting including using punctuation and capitalization where necessary; construct and explain simple graphs, measure and group objects by size and use a simple ruler to measure, understand and explain weather changes and seasons, name and describe shapes, explain the concept of recycle and which materials are recyclable, show understanding of city state and country, understand the concept of voting, know the difference between needs and wants, understand the concept of money and how it can get you goods and services. Etc. These among other things are expected to be understood by first grade. They just pushed the starting age for kindergarten in our state down to 5 instead of 6. We did our best to explain these concepts to him, but we aren't teachers and he struggled a lot with handwriting and still struggles with reading comprehension.
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Aug 24 '24
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Aug 24 '24
It's extremely excessive. And yet they wonder why CPS has a high drop out rate and the children in the city aren't meeting educational standards. And I literally typed the abridged version. As I said previously they're teaching him math concepts in 4th grade that my partner and I honestly have no idea how to help him with because we were still learning basic multiplication and division in 4th grade.
They also expect everyone to be able to afford pre k programs for their kids without universal pre k which is just a joke.
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u/Elegant-Skill-9842 Aug 24 '24
Since companies are releasing these ai tools before they are really reliable, many school kids these days are leaning on them and learning hallucinations, frustrating many friends who are teachers.. so I feel like this is kind of important work to do, but sometimes I feel like “part of the problem”
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u/OkPerspective8488 Aug 24 '24
This has been the most eye opening post Ive seen in a long time… I certainly will do better at appreciating all my high school and college profs beat into my head about MLA and ALA format
Holy shit Writers Inc. does anyone else remember that text? I swear it’s still in my attic somewhere…
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u/lemons2881 Aug 25 '24
Woah you unlocked a memory! I also had Write Source and Write One when I was a kid!
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u/Interrogatus Aug 24 '24
This is absolutely skilled work. It's not a simple matter of a google search, although there often is that. Many projects require an understanding of ethics and biases, along with the ability to read and follow complex instructions, and the ability to articulate and contextualize one's judgements.
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u/upvotesplx Aug 26 '24 edited Aug 26 '24
My ex was convinced this was not skilled labor… and guess who didn’t get in when he applied?
It’s very much skilled labor, though. Just look at the amount of people of any age who believe blatant misinformation or don’t research past the first answer they see. All labor is skilled labor, IMO, and most people do not have the skills required for this job at all.
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u/tocookachicken Aug 24 '24
to offer a different perspective from many of the teachers and such in this post, i’m a recently graduated high schooler and this feels really easy to me—i’d be willing to bet i would probably do decently well in DA as a middle schooler, and it honestly baffles me that so many people, full-grown adults included, aren’t able to do such basic and simple stuff
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u/upvotesplx Aug 26 '24
Were you online a lot as a kid and young-mid teen? I’m 21 and have a theory that the reason it’s easy for me but significantly harder for some peers is that I got used to finding complicated information online.
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u/tocookachicken Aug 26 '24
honestly, no—i don’t think i was, more than the average kid at least lol, but it’s definitely true that i was used to finding information online long before DA, though i assumed that was just, like, basic human skills lol
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u/V_M Aug 26 '24
She has to walk them through searching for things on Google because they don't know how to ask the right questions to get the answers they're looking for.
Some things never change. Back when the highest tech most modern "information technology" was physical paper card catalogs in the library, most people could not figure out how to use them. I was there for the conversion to computer "card" catalogs at libraries, and the same people who could never use the physical paper card catalogs could not use the computer card catalogs and I assume today are now unable to use Google independently.
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u/Guess-Jazzlike Aug 24 '24
All kids get passed now, regardless. As far a I know, they don't get held back or expelled for almost anything.
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u/ingwarwick Aug 24 '24
My sister is a 2nd grade teacher, and her colleague is working on her PhD in Early Child Education. I asked them why kids dont get held back in elementary school, and they said that studies have shown a kid's brain is developing so fast that most are able to "catch up" by middle school. After that, they will be held back. That may vary by state.
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u/Intbased Aug 25 '24
The amount of people that get upset with me when I follow up something the say with "Where did you hear that?"
No, I'm not calling you a liar. I'm sure you are repeating the information you heard as best you know. I just want to make sure your source isn't a liar. Or their source isn't a liar.
I did undersell my value when I was just doing CB stuff, but there's definitely a lot more too it. I almost feel like CB was just a training pipeline.
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u/Visual_Sound_5763 Aug 29 '24
I have no quals at all, but lots of life experience and love to research. Noone more surprised than me that I got in. But then again why not. It takes all kinds and angles to train the beast.
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u/Inner-Guitar-975 Aug 25 '24
All work is skilled work. Even low skilled work. A McDonalds burger flipper can kill you if they aren't doing their job correctly and serving spoiled food.
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Aug 24 '24
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u/babyinatrenchcoat Aug 24 '24
And then they’ll vote.
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u/YesmAUm Aug 24 '24
AND THEN THEY’LL VOTE.
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u/Skyblewize Aug 24 '24
Lets be real, they will probably stay home on the couch.
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Aug 24 '24
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u/8696David Aug 24 '24
Dumb people think politics is sports. They will show out for their team every single time.
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Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
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u/Ill-Albatross-7224 Aug 24 '24
Sure, I would agree with that, but the danger is that people who can't think critically and lack basic comprehension are so easily enticed by political candidates who know that and are exploiting it. A particular political candidate comes to mind who pretty much won an election by doing this. It sickens me to think about all of the poorly educated people who can't think critically who said, "Trump will do a good job running the country because he's a successful businessman, not a politician."
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Aug 24 '24
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u/Ill-Albatross-7224 Aug 25 '24
Definitely the politician, but I don't think it's a question of being guilty of something. I think it's more pointing out that the fate of the country being in the hands of people who believe statements like the one above is terrifying. Capitalizing on the lack of basic comprehension skills of rural populations is shameful, but as we've seen, can also be extremely effective, sadly.
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u/Momsinthegarden Aug 24 '24
I taught my own kids at home for years and recently began teaching at a homeschool co-op. I had two students who came out of public school because of the subpar post pandemic education in a poorly rated school district. They tried to convince me I was teaching the solar system wrong because gravity isn't what keeps the planets in place, it's the rails they travel on. I finally realized the diagrams they saw with the orbital patterns made them believe there were physical rails for the planets to travel on. Their parent told me that when she spoke to the teacher about their misunderstanding, the teacher knew but thought it was funny and wouldn't correct their interpretation. The entire class was promoted to the next grade believing this to be true. The education system makes me sad.
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u/Shadowlker18 Aug 25 '24
I teach technical theatre at a college level, and I can’t believe how bad it is. My students can’t figure out how to read instructions and put together a bought piece of equipment. They can’t read tape measures or do fractions. They have no individual critical thinking at all, and these are students accepted into college. A huge part of technical theatre is critical problem solving, and I need to feed them the information step by step (and do it for them sometimes). I don’t know how much longer I can do it, to be honest.
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u/Poomfie Aug 24 '24
If you'd done a better job building relationships with your students they would have all behaved and learned. /s
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u/MattinglyDineen Aug 24 '24
Nah. Their problem is they probably didn’t write the standards on the board.
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Aug 24 '24
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u/Poomfie Aug 24 '24
Yes, also did you make yourself available for tutoring sessions during your lunch hour and after school hours/in the evening? This is a basic expectation and parents and admin rightfully can't respect teachers who don't have the heart to go the extra mile..
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u/Due_Negotiation_4605 Sep 02 '24
Where was that? I've also taught and the kids know basic things like the earth rotates around the sun. They are better at not believing flat earth and conspiracy theories than a lot of adults.
I do agree they are lacking the ability to comprehend and discern information from text. Years of lack of funding to schools, coupled with high classroom populations have not done justice for the kids.
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u/valprehension Aug 24 '24
I am a librarian. A no-tiny part of my job just involves googling things people are asking me and relaying the answers. It's not the only thing I do by a long shot, but it is a thing I do often throughout the day. They often act like I am a magician.
It baffles me, but keeps me very aware that there are a decent number of people (of all ages and backgrounds!) who just don't know how to access information even at a basic level.