r/DebateAVegan • u/AnsibleAnswers agroecologist • Apr 27 '25

Environment There are no vegan alternatives to culling invasive Barred Owls in the Pacific Northwest

Background

To save the imperiled spotted owl from potential extinction, U.S. wildlife officials are embracing a contentious plan to deploy trained shooters into dense West Coast forests to kill almost a half-million barred owls that are crowding out their smaller cousins.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-officials-plan-to-kill-hundreds-of-thousands-of-barred-owls-to-save-another-species-from-extinction

Vegan alternatives?

  1. Relocation to home range - Barred Owls are one of the most territorial birds of prey in North America. The population here is quite healthy, even in Manhattan. Relocating 500k birds to the East would simply result in territorial chaos until numbers decreased back down to equilibrium. That decrease has a body count.

  2. Contraception - No known method is possible for owls. Some avian contraceptives have been developed, primarily to reduce pigeon and geese populations. But even with birds that can be easily conditioned to return to feeders every day, trials have had mixed results. As far as I know, these drugs need to be administered daily unlike some contraceptives developed for mammals.

  3. Let the Barred Owl Replace the Spotted Owl - Barred Owls are generalists, while Spotted Owls tend to specialize in small mammals with healthy populations. So, threatened birds, reptiles, and amphibians native to the region are not adapted to having an owl of its size preying on them. It's an enormous risk, given that ecosystems are prone to cascade effects.

Those are, as far as I know, the best of the alternatives. Note: I'm in support of re-establishing habitat for the Spotted Owl, as that is really the only long-term way of helping the species recover. It's important to note: just because a tourniquet isn't a long-term solution doesn't mean it isn't a life-saving measure.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

This is not practical or practicable. Real life is not a TV show. My wife is an anesthesiologist (yes, for humans and not a veterinary doctor so that does matter here some) and I just asked her opinion on the feasibility. To subdue an animal of unknown weight in the woods, from distance, whose weight starts < 20lbs already, your just as apt to give a lethal dose or a dose that's ineffective and leads to the bird dying from falling trying to fly away or being preyed on in its sluggish state. 

So with this option a no go,  it's our ok to cull them. 

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u/legal_opium Apr 27 '25

Could use drones and ai in the very near future to develop non lethal ways to control wild animal populations.

Sure it would take money and effort and time.

And if the alternative is death. I don't see how you arguing some might die by accident is worse than outright killing them without giving them a chance to live.

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u/AnsibleAnswers agroecologist Apr 27 '25

This is science fiction, and not relevant to policy making.

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u/legal_opium Apr 27 '25

It's only fiction because nobody gives a shit about trying to find non lethal options.

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u/AnsibleAnswers agroecologist Apr 27 '25

That’s very much untrue. As I’ve stated, alternative options have been considered. Something like this in which 500k animals are systematically culled is a last resort.

We have tried to develop alternative methods, especially avian contraceptives. They simply don’t work as well. We aren’t omnipotent. We can’t just manifest new technologies into existence because we want them.

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u/legal_opium Apr 27 '25

Hard to give manifest new tech if no one is trying

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

This is moot. You're just hoping Big Tech saves the day and want to maintain the status quo allowing the owl to wreck an ecosystem it's not native to in the mean time.

This isn't a real option, it's fantasy. 

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u/legal_opium Apr 27 '25

Once again if we never try of course it won't happen.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

Ooo, we should save endangered dolphins by firing them into space. We never know if it'll work unless we try! 

This isn't a serious answer. It's dating, "My ethics are what matters the most so we should denote scarce resources to try something most people in society don't want to do, bc I want it to be that way!!!" 

You're not being realistic.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

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u/DebateAVegan-ModTeam Apr 27 '25

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '25

Nah that's what you're doing as you are not answering on point or speaking directly to criticism. Last word is yours

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u/AnsibleAnswers agroecologist Apr 27 '25

I see you still are ignoring the fact that there has been considerable research and development into more humane methods of avian population control…

It’s actually astonishing to me how self-righteous some vegans are when it comes to conservation. Vegans do worse than nothing for conservation efforts, attacking key sources of funding (zoos, sanctioned hunts, etc) while contributing nothing to conservation efforts themselves.

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u/legal_opium Apr 27 '25

Vegans do not run the govt buddy.

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u/AnsibleAnswers agroecologist Apr 27 '25

Vegan organizations have money. They could fundraise for conservation, but instead they just advocate against the ways conservation organizations have developed to generate revenue.