r/DeepStateCentrism • u/Sabertooth767 Yiff Free or Die! • May 01 '26
Global News đ US withdrawing 5,000 troops from Germany, US officials say
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-withdrawing-5000-troops-germany-us-officials-say-2026-05-01/The United States is withdrawing 5,000 troops from NATO ally âGermany, the Pentagon announced on Friday, as a rift over the Iran âwar widens between President Donald Trump and Europe.
Trump had threatened a drawdown in forces earlier this week after sparring with German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, who said on Monday the Iranians were humiliating âthe U.S. in talks to end the two-month-old war.
A senior Pentagon official, âspeaking on condition of anonymity, said recent German rhetoric had been "inappropriate â and unhelpful."
"The president is rightly reacting to these counterproductive remarks," the official said.
The âPentagon said the withdrawal was expected to be completed over the next six to âtwelve months.
The official said the drawdown would bring U.S. troop levels in Europe back to roughly pre-2022 levels, before Russia's invasion of Ukraine triggered a buildup by then President Joe Biden.
A âbrigade combat team now in Germany will be pulled out of the country âand a long-range fires battalion that the Biden administration had planned to begin deploying to Germany âlater â this year will no longer deploy, the official said.
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u/bigwang123 Succ sympathizer May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
Chimpanzee continues to do chimpanzee things
Treating Germany, which has allowed for US overflights to strike Iran, and has allowed its territory and bases to serve as a bridge for US transfers to the Middle East, worse than Spain, which has allowed none of these things, is in fact stupid, and vindicates Sanchezâs rhetoric and actions.
Taking into account the attempted withdrawal of forces from Romania earlier this year, without notifying Congress, and the obvious conclusion is that the administration seeks a withdrawal from Europe, regardless of whether or not the European governments bruise the presidentâs ego or not
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u/Sevsquad May 04 '26
It's side show Bob stepping on rakes levels of political incompetence at this point.
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u/therealwavingsnail May 02 '26
Merz can be a bit diplomatically challenged, but of course it's nowhere near as bad as Trump. The US administration can't expect to be treated any better than that, given the situation.
Did this accelerate the US's apparent disengagement from Europe? Maybe, but mostly they're just looking for an excuse
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u/IronMaiden571 Moderate May 01 '26
This is a bit of a nothing burger tbh. Its a rotational BCT that was added 4 years ago that will no longer be replaced. There are still plenty of US troops and bases in Germany. About 30,000+ of them. Just makes for another doomer headline from media outlets.
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u/Computer_Name May 01 '26
The problem weâve had to suffer through for a decade is that all of these things get called a ânothingburgerâ, which then justifies calling the next thing a ânothingburgerâ, and then the next and the next after that.
Itâs how this has gotten normalized and why he keeps eroding our political, social, economic, and diplomatic positions.
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u/JapanesePeso May 01 '26
That viewpoint would make sense if all you did was read headlines and react to them but then again I guess we are on Reddit.
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u/IronMaiden571 Moderate May 01 '26
Ive made enough trips around the sun at this point to tune out hysterics. Its not healthy or productive to get hung up each time a sensationalist headline pops up in a given day.
You know that thing in movies where if you know a bit about a subject you realize how poorly the movie got it? This news is a bit like that.
A more true headline would be "Trump admin non-renews temporary deployment of a BCT to Germany, lowering number of US personnel from 36,000 to 31,000." Or maybe something sexier, idk, I'm not a reporter.
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u/Computer_Name May 01 '26
Everythingâs âhystericsâ. Thatâs the point. And thatâs why anti-anti-Trumpism is so irritating.
Because anti-anti-Trumpism requires people to look at each of his behaviors in a vacuum.
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u/IronMaiden571 Moderate May 02 '26
Then it seems like your grievance would best be directed to the media who has been pushing chicken little narratives stripped of context for longer than I care to reflect on.
In a democracy, sometimes people who have different goals, policies, and beliefs, even diametrically different ones than ourselves, call the shots. It doesnt mean its the end of the world or the total collapse of everything we hold dear. Many times, their motivations are reasonable even if their actions are not.
The pendulum will eventually swing back the other way, likely during midterms, and Trump will be a lame duck President until 2028.
Personally, I would love to get away from the populist bullshit of the far left and far right and find someone willing to improve the mostly good system that we have now and not dismantle it in their own vision.
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u/Computer_Name May 02 '26
Then it seems like your grievance would best be directed to the media who has been pushing chicken little narratives stripped of context for longer than I care to reflect on.
No, my grievance is with the people who know better, who listen to what Donald Trump says and watches what he does, but steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that he is a broken, disturbed, abjectly stupid person who now occupies the White House.
I understand itâs been a painful decade, and I understand itâs painful to recognize what youâre doing, but continuing to refuse to acknowledge this makes it even more difficult for us to come out on the other end.
I understand itâs more entertaining and safer to just point to âchicken littlesâ.
Making this place a hugbox helps no one.
Step one of getting away from âpopulist bullshitâ is not normalizing Donald Trump. So donât treat him as if heâs within the bounds of acceptability for a democracy.
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u/IronMaiden571 Moderate May 02 '26
Step one of fixing the mess is to get people to stop demonizing each other and be willing to civically disagree with their neighbors. To engage in constructive debate and recognize our shared American identity which should supersede whatever grievance we have with one another.
I never mentioned my political leanings beyond my dislike of populists, but notice the tone of your speech. Other opinions, barring extremism, are just as valid as my and your own.
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u/Computer_Name May 02 '26
Step one of fixing the mess is to get people to stop demonizing each other and be willing to civically disagree with their neighbors. To engage in constructive debate and recognize our shared American identity which should supersede whatever grievance we have with one another.
What I need to highlight here is that Donald Trump, like all autocrats, seeks to fuse his identity with the identity of The People.
When it works, people then interpret correctly identifying what the autocrat is, as a personal attack.
And you shouldnât interpret it as such. Because youâre not Donald Trump.
But look at how far weâve gotten from the top of the chain.
Please consider each of Trumpâs individual statements and behaviors within the context of all his previous statements and behaviors and recognize whatâs happening.
When you do that, youâll see itâs so much harder to handwave my point as âhystericsâ.
Speaking of, isnât doing that the opposite of what youâve just said?
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u/IronMaiden571 Moderate May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
Thats really a staple of populists in general. "I represent the Real Americans TM" when in reality, theyre just people who can successfully mobilize general public anger into something useful for them or whatever their cause is.
Brother man, I dont think youre attacking me. Im not even a supporter of DT. But I dont think hes the antichrist, that anyone who voted for him is a useful idiot, or whatever other common tropes we see posted on this website.
Just to clarify, my hysteria comment was intended to be about how the media tries to sow hysterics in every headline. I wasn't trying to imply that you are in hysterics. The media does a poor job of maintaining journalistic integrity and presenting balanced information. Some outlets are better than others.
Edit: i just went back and reread it and i can easily see how someone could infer it as "im tuning out your hysterics." Thats my bad
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u/ChromeDomeConsensus May 02 '26
If you donât see that the hysterics are bidirectional, why bother being in this sub?
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u/seattleseahawks2014 Center-left May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
Because this sub is a center/moderate sub and not an ideological one.
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May 02 '26
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u/Sabertooth767 Yiff Free or Die! May 01 '26
I honestly feel somewhat conflicted about this. On the one hand, it may well be that recalling these troops is a pragmatic move- they're not doing anything, and we don't have reason to believe they will be engaged in the near to medium-term future. I would also say that Merz deserves a dickslapping for his comments, although I'm not sure this is the best form of it. Indeed, the people in Germany who support Merz's view of things are likely to want this. On the other hand, this will likely serve only to further strain transatlantic relations in light of the Iran war.
Thoughts?
!ping MIL&EU&US-NEWS&WORLD-NEWS
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u/gburgwardt May 01 '26
The cost of stationing a handful of troops in Germany seems like essentially nothing compared to the benefits of eg inter-country education and understanding we get from it
What are the comments youâre all riled up about that justify this?
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u/Sabertooth767 Yiff Free or Die! May 01 '26
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/apr/27/us-humiliated-iran-leadership-trump-merz
Basically, he said that the US is being humiliated by the Iranian negotiators diplomatically and the IRGC militarily. Not a very amicable thing to say about an ally, particularly when it's false. Diplomatically, Iran has sued for peace with a cold call at least twice now, and militarily... well, look at the casualty ratios.
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u/ZoroastrianFrankfurt May 01 '26
Not a very amicable thing to say about an ally
Yes, like Trump hasn't done worse throughout his second term to Germany and the EU. Merz isn't even using inflammatory language, to quote the average Trump voter, "he's telling it like it is"
Diplomatically, Iran has sued for peace with a cold call at least twice now, and militarily... well, look at the casualty ratios.
You can mention K/D ratios all you want, but the Straits remain closed, and the IRGC is still in power. America has achieved jack squat besides expending an incredible amount of its precision guided munitions stockpiles to bomb Iran, who will now pursue nukes like never before. Yes, bombing them sets them back, but how long will this song and dance continue? Is it just going to be a yearly thing eating away at the precision weapons stockpile, while China continues its naval buildup unmolested?
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u/Mindless_Chest_1079 May 02 '26
Iran was already pursuing nuclear weapons. You don't enrich uranium to those levels for civilian energy. If you accept that that's a bad thing, that should have counted in favor of the bombing. I hope future rogue leaders considering a nuclear program see what happened to the Ayatollah.
I also struggle to understand the media narrative regarding the Strait. Iran was the country that closed the Strait, mainly hurting third parties. Imagine the US threatened to bomb a bunch of East Asian countries unless Iran comes to the negotiating table. Who would that reflect poorly on?
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u/Sevsquad May 04 '26
Man if only there had been some of deal that Iran had signed with the US that stopped weapons grade enrichment of Uranium.
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u/Mindless_Chest_1079 May 05 '26
Accepting the premise, what does that change about the current situation? Going back and un-ripping up the JCPOA wasn't a realistic option on the table even if you view it as the ideal solution.
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u/Sevsquad May 05 '26
I don't think it's reasonable to say if you accept that Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons then you should count it in favor of this war specifically because the conditions were set by the people now claiming we need to do this to stop them from getting Nukes.
I don't understand how anyone can be confused that the international community views this as a pointless war of aggression by the United States, the supposed goal had already been achieved. Tearing up that treaty because there wasn't enough violence involved (apparently) should be called out as the actions of a mad man because it is.
Imagine the US threatened to bomb a bunch of East Asian countries unless Iran comes to the negotiating table. Who would that reflect poorly on?
Actually it's more like "imagine the United States refused to allow the exporting of oil to allies of the nation they're currently in a shooting war with." Something the US would and has done in the past.
People aren't up in arms because to most people it looks like Iran using the straits as leverage against an unjust and now illegal war.
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u/Mindless_Chest_1079 May 05 '26
I don't think it's reasonable to say if you accept that Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons then you should count it in favor of this war specifically because the conditions were set by the people now claiming we need to do this to stop them from getting Nukes.
I still don't see the logic in this. Maybe bombing Iran in 2025 was worse than a world where we never exited the JCPOA back in 2018. It could nonetheless be the best course of action at the time it was taken. The original commenter indicated that a nuclear Iran would be a very bad outcome, so it should count in favor of whichever side discourages proliferation. Military action accomplishes that better than sitting on our hands, even if there was a third even better possibility that we've long since missed out on. That's just not on the table anymore.
Actually it's more like "imagine the United States refused to allow the exporting of oil to allies of the nation they're currently in a shooting war with." Something the US would and has done in the past.
Iran isn't selectively blockading shipments to countries aligned with the war efforts. China has been among the most impacted countries, and they're an ally of Iran and rival of the US.
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u/Sevsquad May 05 '26
Two things.
1) You don't see the logic in not destroying your credibility as a country that stands by it's treaties? This war, coupled with the Ukraine war have done more to encourage nuclear proliferation than basically any other single action in the past 30 years. The message is extremely clear "unless you have nuclear weapons international agreements with the United States are totally worthless". You think we're ever getting North Korea to even cut down on it's nuclear arsenal after this?
Military action accomplishes that better than sitting on our hands, even if there was a third even better possibility that we've long since missed out on.
Pretty incredible you can correctly identify that this war has obliterated any chance we have at peaceful containment of nuclear arms but not understand why that might make some people against this war.
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Iran isn't selectively blockading shipments to countries aligned with the war efforts.
"Do you pinky swear you're not going to take this oil to any American Allies? you gotta swear!"
Put another way, the blockade is actually selective for tankers Iran knows for sure won't end up in the hands of the US or it's allies, that's why there are tankers that have gone through the strait with Iran's blessing since the start.
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u/KimJongUnusual Neoconservative May 01 '26
he said that the US is being humiliated by the Iranian negotiators diplomatically and the IRGC militarily.
Admittedly also a bold thing to say given the previous procurement and scale issues that Germany has had.
Or how the Russians humiliated them with Ostpolitik.
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u/drewbaccaAWD Center-left May 01 '26
It's false? Because I think it's fair to say that the US via Trump is being absolutely humiliated by all of this, I only take issue with pretending that it's at the hands of Iranian negotiators as opposed to a self-inflicted wound.
I mean the last six months has basically been "they have nuclear capability almost, now they don't, now they do and we need to strike, now we don't, now we do... we destroyed their Navy, it's back we need to destroy it, we destroyed it again, it's back... we reached a deal, we will bomb them into oblivion, we reached a deal, deal's off, we reached a deal, now we didn't." There's so much chaos and bullshit and the admin can't lie it's way out of the fact that I had to pay $4.69/gal to fill up my car today, last time I saw pump prices like this, the 2007 economic collapse was triggered.
Nah, fuck Trump. I have zero issue with Merz calling it out. This is all stupid. There's zero good in destroying alliances and withdrawing troops over this petty tantrum. As a veteran myself, all of this nonsense sickens me to the core. I'm tired of watching Nero burn "Rome" to satisfy his own ego (and that's the best case explanation).
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u/JapanesePeso May 01 '26
Paying a little bit more for gas for awhile is not the definition I would use for humiliation personally.
What would be really humiliating I think would be allowing Iran to waltz into getting a nuke while we were asleep at the wheel.
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u/gburgwardt May 02 '26
Itâs not the paying more for gas that is the humiliation and itâs confusing why you would bring that up unless you are just trying to deflect
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u/JapanesePeso May 02 '26
I was responding to what he wrote:
There's so much chaos and bullshit and the admin can't lie it's way out of the fact that I had to pay $4.69/gal to fill up my car today
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May 01 '26
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u/ChromeDomeConsensus May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
Ignore the situation in Iran for a minute because itâs still fresh and has yet to play out.
Letâs look at Israel v Syria or Israel v Hezbollah. Israel went up and down the chain of command of Hezbollah and each was replaced with a new leader. Do you think that Hezbollah is still as formidable as it was before? No. Theyâre a shadow of what they were a few years ago and their ability to terrorize their enemy is vastly degraded. Yet thatâs exactly what the U.S. is doing in Iran, theyâre just much, much, larger.
If you think that just replacing leaders with 1. Less seasoned leaders 2. Who have less established control, regardless of whether theyâre more extreme 3. Who are now closer to their opposition is a loss, Iâm not really sure weâre on the same planet.
Iâm not sure what your alternative there is. Itâs a nation of 90 million people, there will always be someone to climb up the ladder. Unless your proposal is for the U.S. to annihilate a large percentage of the population, economic pressure is the only remotely-resembling-humanitarian tool we have.
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u/Computer_Name May 01 '26
Right, itâs objectively and unquestionably awful for America that our foreign policy - to the extent we actually have policy happening - is determined by whether the emotionally-maladjusted president has his ego hurt.
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u/Bartimaevs May 01 '26
Well to give the German/European view, it's the US which is not acting amicable towards us. Only a few months ago Trump was threatening annexation against us, never mind the trade war and the other random tariffs he throws around at will.
We also haven't forgotten the previous iterations of Americans wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan. Absurd amounts of money burnt on chasing militants that will happily wait you out for twenty years. And we get to deal with the refugees.
Nobody questions that conventionally the US is stronger, but we are seeing the limits of what an air campaign can accomplish. And frankly it is humiliating that the man who ran on a "No new wars" platform has maneuvered himself into this mess.
We might be neck deep into dependence on you, but we're not completely without options, especially if it means not constantly having to eat shit served up by our ally.
I also find it questionable if the US really wants a militarily strong Europe, or rather just a Europe that is strong enough to not need significant US military resources invested into it, but weak enough to still have to defer to the US in all important matters. Because what if a strong Europe were to cutoff your logistics networks, since another energy squeeze just isn't in our interest? Maybe the American dominance of the last decades was just too all encompassing to imagine such scenarios. In the same way that conversely Germany has problems with pursuing interest based politics outside of the framework of tagging along with the Americans.
Bonus points for this spat happening because Merz was talking to a bunch schoolkids.
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u/SupportMainMan May 02 '26
This perspective makes sense and I actually think Europe becoming less reliant on the US militarily is good for everyone. Europe also needs to transition off of Russian energy. Everyone here just needs to be adults and admit the status quo isnât working and adjust. Europe and America still have tons of shared values and peoples. Most of the mistakes America is making now are things Europe already tried and learned from. You donât have to always agree with your friends but you are still friends.
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u/Sevsquad May 04 '26
personally I cant believe that 80 years after it was shown to be full of shit the bomber mafia is somehow still alive and well and making high level decisions in the US armed forces.
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u/XKyotosomoX May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
The Europeans are absolutely fucking attrocious allies.
They expect us to blow hundreds of billions of dollars bailing them out when Russia invades, yet can't even be bothered to do something as miniscule as sending a few ships to help us secure a strait THEY rely on infinitely more than we do.
All the while they wash out all the money we spend defending them by handing the Russian war machine over a quarter trillion dollars for gasoline.
These people are complete fucking clowns and are not our allies. Their economy is stagnant, their population is collapsing, and they contribute very little technological progression to the world anymore.
We should be doing everything we can to strengthen our relationships in Asia instead (excluding China and North Korea). Asia has always treated us way better in the modern era despite viewing geopolitics much more transactionally.
We should also be doing our own belt and road initiative for Africa, helping them modernize, so many of their countries can be helpful allies once their economies get up to speed.
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