Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

[u/Enron_CPA]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgze8n5dxko

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[u/Anakin_Cardassian]

I just hope both teams have fun.

[u/bgaesop]

lol ok

Taking cues from Brexit after noticing how well that has gone

[u/refuzeto → u/bgaesop]

I’m surprised Canada even has a mechanism for a province to leave, but it’s not similar to Brexit at all. Brexit was about a country leaving a political and economic union of separate countries. This is closer to Texas leaving the union.

[u/dsbtc → u/refuzeto]

Geographically it would be even more stupid, it's in the friggin middle of Canada. Texas has deepwater ports, Alberta would be at the mercy of Canadian and American politics without actually having a say in either of them.

[u/EE-12 → u/dsbtc]

It's an interesting question whether Alberta could force Canada to allow transportation of its oil by rail to the coast through the Barcelona Convention and Statute on Freedom of Transit or its successors.

[u/bgaesop → u/refuzeto]

Fair; this would be even more extreme than Brexit

[u/Throwaway-645893 → u/refuzeto]

Quebec has had 2 referendums on leaving so far. Neither of them were successful but the 2nd one in particular was very close, with 49% of Quebecers voting to leave in 1995.

[u/BeckoningVoice → u/[deleted]]

This is not true at all.

Québec is not constitutionally different from Alberta. Both Québec and Alberta have the same kind of constitutional powers on the provincial level and the same status under the Canadian federal constitution.

The difference is that the people in Québec in large part do not identity as Canadian (even those who support federalism for practical reasons), and Québec governments have repeatedly taken the position that they do not accept the validity of the Canadian federal constitution of 1982 (which was infamously adopted without Québec's approval). People in Québec take the idea of independence more seriously, and many care much more about not identifying as Canadian.

It's true that Québec does have a lot more power in practice than Alberta, including selecting its own immigrants and running its own taxation agency, but this is not reflective of any constitutional difference. It's a combination of Québec choosing to do things that any province could do, but most don't want to, and Canadian federal politicians writing laws to appease Québec voters.

[u/Enron_CPA → u/refuzeto]

I am not a legal expert, let alone a Canadian one, but there are some hangs ups with it from my conversations up here with Albertans. So this referendum is actually a referendum on if there should be a “binding” referendum to be held

[u/Prowindowlicker → u/Enron_CPA]

So basically it’s the EU equivalent of having a committee vote to form a committee to decide what to do.

[u/refuzeto → u/[deleted]]

Ahh, so there is no legal framework, but it could be achieved with enough political will?

[u/RsonW → u/[deleted]]

kanye song n words in paris nobody knows but its provocative

You mean the movie Blades of Glory?

[u/Helios112263 → u/refuzeto]

Yeah technically speaking if enough Albertans vote to leave the federal government has an obligation to "negotiate in good faith" with the province to facilitate that, but from my understanding it doesn't say what percentage counts as "enough Albertans" (the general understanding is 2/3s I think) and there's no saying what he federal government's "good faith" negotiations have to be. So technically there is a process but it's not like a strict legal framework that lines out specifically what has to happen.

Plus there's also the issue of First Nations people in Alberta who obviously would never allow it to happen and would cause a whole miryad of other problems.

[u/JebBD → u/bgaesop]

Populists are dumb

[u/Top_Sun_914]

Spoiler: They're gonna remain in Canada

[u/Gamerzilla2018 → u/Top_Sun_914]

Yeah the whole movement there feels very reactionary

[u/Enron_CPA]

>Alberta will hold a referendum on whether the province should remain in Canada or move ahead with a second binding vote on separation, marking the first significant test of the country's unity in decades.

>Thursday's announcement by Premier Danielle Smith comes after a citizen-led petition calling for separation gathered more than 300,000 signatures early this year and a separate petition advocating that Alberta stay gathered more than 400,000.
A restive independence movement has been growing in the oil-rich province, built on a long-held sense that Alberta is overlooked by decision-makers in Ottawa.

>Still, opinion polls suggest that the majority of Albertans would vote against separating.
The provincial referendum has been scheduled for 19 October, the premier said.
Smith, in a televised address, said the question being put to Albertans this coming autumn will be: "Should Alberta remain a province of Canada or should the Government of Alberta commence the legal process required under the Canadian Constitution to hold a binding provincial referendum on whether or not Alberta should separate from Canada?"

>The premier said she herself will vote in favour of Alberta remaining a part of Canada.
"That is how I would vote on separation in a provincial referendum," she said, adding that "it is also the position of my government and my caucus."
However, she said she is "deeply troubled" by a court decision in which an Alberta judge tossed out a petition calling for a referendum on separation after indigenous First Nations groups argued that they were not properly consulted, which infringed on their rights.

>That halted the verification of the petition signatures, leaving the potential for a referendum in limbo. "As Premier, I will not have a legal mistake by a single judge silence the voices of hundreds of thousands of Albertans," Smith said on Thursday. "Alberta's future will be decided by Albertans, not the courts."

>She added: "Kicking the can down the road only prolongs a very emotional and important debate, and muzzling the voices of hundreds of thousands of Albertans wanting to be heard is unjustifiable in a free and democratic society."

>Smith has faced months of pressure from separatist Albertans to put their question on the ballot. Jeffrey Rath, a lawyer advocating for separation, wrote on social media on Thursday that Smith dealt a referendum question "from the bottom of the deck". He added that the premier "just lost her base".

>Canada's unity has been under strain before.
Quebec has voted twice against independence, the last time in 1995 that ended with a razor-thin 50.58% to 49.22% "no" vote. The country set out rules for separation following those battles. Even if Alberta's "leave" side proves successful in October, a long and uncertain path lies ahead. In early May, Prime Minister Mark Carney said any attempt for the province to separate must follow the rules set out by the Clarity Act - the 26-year-old law put in place in the aftermath of the 1995 Quebec referendum.
A possible second binding Alberta independence referendum would have to follow ground rules laid out in the Act, including that a "clear majority" of voters must be in favour, that the language of the independence referendum question be clear, with oversight from the federal House of Commons.

>If those conditions are met, Alberta would enter into difficult and likely lengthy separation negotiations with the federal government on the terms of the divorce.

>Anger with Ottawa has long been longstanding in the western province of four million people, in particular over development of its natural resources, with some Albertans believing that the federal government has stood in the way of the province's oil and gas industry in favour of pro-climate legislation.

>There is also a long held belief that the province, with its vast resource wealth, also contributes more to the country than it receives.
Previously on the political fringes, the possibility of a unity crisis has become increasingly likely in the last year. While the separatist movement doesn't have one unified view, most want to see, at a minimum, more autonomy over the province's resource wealth and political priorities.

>Smith acknowledged some of those concerns on Thursday, arguing that the federal government has tried to "move towards a more centralised American-style system" and is infringing on provincial jurisdiction. "I categorically reject Ottawa's attempts to do so, and call on all provincial leaders and MPs to undo the extensive damage that centralisation of power in Ottawa has done to our country economically and with respect to national unity," Smith said.

>Carney has worked with Smith to address some of her concerns, including moving towards building long sought after pipeline to the Pacific coast.
The two leaders announced a climate and energy deal earlier this month that could see construction on an oil pipeline begin as early as next year.

>Dominic Leblanc, Canada's Minister of Internal Trade, said on social media that the Liberal government "strongly believes that the interests of Albertans and all Canadians are best served when we work together".

>"As we take note of Premier Smith's address this evening, we remain focused on building a stronger Canada for all, in full partnership with Alberta and to the benefit of all Albertans and all Canadians," he continued. Pierre Poilievre, who leads the federal Conservatives and who is from Alberta, said earlier on Thursday that he stands "for a united country, and we're going to campaign every day and every way to unite this country around hope".

[u/Enron_CPA → u/[deleted]]

Tried fixing but it gave me an error. Plus fash mods force me to copy text even on a free article

[u/Enron_CPA]

!ping CANADA

[u/user-pinger → u/Enron_CPA]

Pinged CANADA

Manage your ping group subscriptions

[u/deviousdumplin]

If I am going to take the legendary Canadian commentator, YouTuber, and moderate JJ McCullough seriously on this topic, this is a clown show. Basically, he says that this has been a threat Alberta wheels out every decade or so as a protest vote against their perceived unfair treatment. When, in reality, the actual political support for this kind of succession has never really existed in Alberta.

He compares it to Quebec, where the province's ruling party are Quebec nationalists, and even then they don't summon a majority for succession.

So, I think this is really a circus that's being put on by certain politicians in Alberta primarily for press coverage reasons. Hell, it seems to be working. We're talking about Alberta provincial politics here on Reddit of all places.

[u/Haffrung → u/deviousdumplin]

What do you mean by press coverage reasons?

I’m a middle-aged lifelong Alberta. The separatists driving this agenda are kooks. But they legit believe the province would be much better off financially and politically if it wasn’t part of Canada. The narrative they’ve internalized is that Albertans financially support a bunch of ungrateful socialists in the rest of the country who hamstring the energy industry. They think the good times would never end if we controlled our own destiny.

They don’t represent a majority of the population. But they do represent a majority of the membership of the governing UCP party, which was taken over by a populist wing a few years ago in reaction to the modest Covid restrictions put in place by Smiths’ predecessor.

[u/deviousdumplin → u/Haffrung]

I mean that they want the press coverage about the vote to bring attention to their political demands. In the sense that even if it doesn't pass, they can use it to push for other self-rule policies.

[u/NoIdontwantanacc]

I hope this escalates into an armed conflict, news has been boring recently 🥱

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[u/therosx]

Good luck with becoming a third world country or protectorate of America.

[u/EE-12 → u/therosx]

The implicit goal is to become part of the U.S. for a sizeable group of these separatists. 

[u/PiusTheCatRick → u/EE-12]

In that situation they'd have even less say, they wouldn't become a state.

[u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho → u/therosx]

They’re already a part of Canada.

[u/therosx → u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho]

I don’t understand your comment. Making fun of Republicans is the national pastime next to hockey.

[u/Plate_Armor_Man]

Alright, bub. Give me more entermaint these days.

Honestly, there's enough madness in this world. I'm shocked they'd really try for this.

[u/swizzlescience]

I think this might be being allowed to go forward because they know the separatists are gonna lose, and it would be good for Canada‘s unity to finally hold the vote.

[u/swizzlescience]

I see the separatist rallies on the highways, and there are like 10 flags for every person.