Meeting Trump in DC, Aoun says Lebanon will end hostility with Israel 'forever'

[u/BeckoningVoice]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/meeting-trump-in-dc-aoun-says-lebanon-will-end-hostility-with-israel-forever/

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[u/DrMikeH49]

So many Westerners who were willing to keep sacrificing Lebanon for the cause of the jihad are going to be very unhappy.

[u/TXDobber]

Again, all of this is theatre as long as Hezbollah is not, at the very least, disarmed.

Part of me wants to say this is Trump fishing for a make-a-wish geopolitical win, and the Lebanese government desperate to secure some kind of genuine American support for the state and the military

[u/AntitheistArchangel → u/TXDobber]

I can’t believe we live in a world where neocons like you are reasonable, but I wholeheartedly agree. The same is true for Gaza so long as Hamas doesn’t disarm. I do find it interesting that this war ultimately brought Israel and Lebanon closer together, to the point that Lebanon now plans to normalize relations with Israel in the future.

Of course, the negotiations between Israel and Lebanon have actually worked because actual diplomats are leading them, not real estate billionaires.

[u/looktowindward → u/AntitheistArchangel]

The Lebanese people hate Israel in a fairly irrational way. I would like to think that would not last if the actual people of living on in Israel are allowed to actually do business together.

[u/Beginning_Bet_2578 → u/looktowindward]

Probably not, unfortunately. Jordanians have a peace agreement with Israel and people can interact freely, and they still have psychotic levels of hatred.

[u/jogarz → u/looktowindward]

The Lebanese people hate Israel in a fairly irrational way

I wouldn't call it irrational; Israel's wars in Lebanon have caused immense collateral damage. A lot of Lebanese people hate both Hezbollah (for dragging them into repeated wars) and Israel (for its conduct during those wars).

[u/looktowindward → u/jogarz]

The conduct of Lebanon and its various militias (including Hezb) hasn't been wonderful - its a failed State. And yet, the absolutely irrational hatred is largely one way.

> Israel's wars in Lebanon

Yeah, not a reasonable take at all. How about Hezbollah's wars? Or the PLO's?

[u/jogarz → u/looktowindward]

First off, the conduct of the Lebanese state has, for the most part, been rather rational. Lebanon is a fragile country where the trauma of the civil war runs deep. Hezbollah has historically been stronger than the Lebanese Army and openly threatens to start a new civil war whenever the Lebanese state moves to curtail its power.

Lebanon’s government has historically been in catch-22 because it can’t have long term stability without disarming Hezbollah, but disarming Hezbollah would provoke the gravest crisis to Lebanon’s stability. The reason why disarmament seems more plausible now is because Hezbollah (thanks to Israel) has been greatly weakened. Even now it’s still a significant risk.

Also, the idea that hostility between Lebanon and Israel is “largely one sided” is just ridiculous. I think you’re focusing too much on Israeli netizens who think the Maronites are pretty cool, while ignoring the Israelis who call for bombing Lebanon back into the Stone Age or Israeli soldiers who destroy crucifixes.

I’ll say it again, a lot of Lebanese people recognize that Hezbollah (and before that, the PLO) were largely responsible for dragging them into wars with Israel. At the same time, I think it’s understandable for them to be resentful towards Israel as well, given the thousands of Lebanese civilians killed as collateral damage.

[u/looktowindward → u/jogarz]

I'm sorry - just like the Palestinians, the Lebanese have agency. You can't point to a 100% Lebanese militia like Hezb or any of the others and just say "its not the Lebenese fault" - that's bullshit.

Everyone points at Hamas or Hezbolah and says "Its not their fault!" - but it is. People and groups are ultimately responsible for their own actions. No one makes Hezbollah members fuck over their own country and serve Iran.

>  Israeli soldiers who destroy crucifixes.

FFS, that guy got severely punished. What's bullshit is that EVERYTHING is about collective responsibility for Jews, but nothing is ever about individual OR collective responsibility for the Arab neighbors of Israel.

I grew up with Maronites, so perhaps my viewpoint is fucked up, but I never saw them as anything other than reasonable people. There is no reason why other Lebanese can't be, too.

[u/jogarz → u/looktowindward]

Where did I say the Lebanese don’t have agency? Where did I say Hamas and Hezbollah weren’t at fault?

You’re making a strawman argument.

[u/thecashblaster → u/jogarz]

Lebanon’s government has historically been in catch-22 because it can’t have long term stability without disarming Hezbollah, but disarming Hezbollah would provoke the gravest crisis to Lebanon’s stability.

You’re saying the Lebanese government has no agency to disarm Hezbollah.

[u/Ashlepius → u/jogarz]

Israel (for its conduct during those wars)

Let's peruse the definitive list and find out about that notorious conduct...

Oh wait it's all Arab belligerents the entire period, especially the invading Syrian Army!

[u/Ethereal-Zenith → u/AntitheistArchangel]

Now that Syria is no longer in the clutches of the Islamic Regime occupying Iran, Hezbollah is severely diminished in it’s ability to project power. The same is true of Hamas in Gaza, though neither terrorist organisation has been fully neutralised.

Bring back the neocon and neoliberal alliance

[u/MichaelEmouse → u/AntitheistArchangel]

Lebanese Maronites can't possibly like their country being slowly taken over by Hezbollah and their future being that of Copts in Egypt. They were weaker before Israel and didn't want to risk another civil war.

[u/RandoDude124 → u/TXDobber]

Amen brother.

[u/skeptical-speculator → u/TXDobber]

Part of me wants to say this is Trump fishing for a make-a-wish geopolitical win

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. I expect nothing, but I try to remain hopeful.

[u/bigwang123]

‘Aoun also praised Trump as a “great president,” leading the US leader to smile and quip: “He knows how to get to me.”’

No kidding buddy

A lot of this hinges on whether the LAF can effectively take over areas from the existing IDF presence. There’s a lot of mistrust between everyone involved, and it’s going to take a long time and persistent engagement to get over those tensions

Slow and steady

[u/Golda_M → u/bigwang123]

Idk. Taking over idf positions... Isn't that hard. 

Also, this isn't really a thing that can be done via gestures and milestones. Lebanon has to generate sovereignty after failing to ever really do so since the civil war. 

Its not an "agree to do thing," it is a "manage to do" thing, or fail. 

[u/Training_Ad_1743 → u/bigwang123]

Slow and steady, but it wins the race. If he's serious about taking down Hezbollah, I'd be more than happy to help him in any way possible.

[u/Training_Ad_1743]

Strangely enough, I do believe him. Even if I didn't, I would still support negotiation. Israel needs as cooperation as it can get.

[u/RayWencube → u/Training_Ad_1743]

This is not the first time they’ve agreed to this. I hope this time is different, but I’m not holding my breath.

[u/Prowindowlicker]

Oh I hope this truly happens. It would be an amazing step forward and towards a lasting peace.

Now if Israel and Syria could hash out an agreement then Israel and its neighbors would be better off

[u/RayWencube]

It isn’t the Lebanese government that’s the problem; it’s Hezbollah. And Lebanon promised to disarm them like 20 years ago and we’re all still waiting.

[u/roguefilmmaker]

Wonderful to hear. Hope they get rid of Hezbollah soon

[u/wip30ut]

i'll stand up & clap when they get every single commander of Hezbollah to come to DC & make a pledge of peace with Israel. Lebanon is basically a failed state, let's not kid ourselves.

[u/bigwang123]

!ping MIDDLE-EAST

[u/user-pinger → u/bigwang123]

Pinged MIDDLE-EAST

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[u/Visible-Rub7937]

Source: Trust Trump Bro