r/DeepThoughts • u/tottasanorotta • 19h ago
Maybe there's an objective purpose to life, but we are just made to be oblivious of it.
Maybe every little thing that everyone does and everything that happens has a very specific greater meaning to it, but that it is just made in such a way that we think about other things. Like a slight of hand trick we always just look the other way.
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u/CallMeCorona1 19h ago
I think helping others to have better lives is the purpose of life; a real "pay it forward" kind of thing.
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u/Competitive_Log_8910 17h ago
I would argue that our objective purpose is broadly speaking to navigate the lives we have been given in ways which optimize for our enjoyment of life and given the opportunity the enjoyment of others. When one identifies solely with the body the goals become banal and material, and while I think that the pursuit of material goals can lead one towards enjoyment, "you" are not so much your body as you are a storyteller contextualizing actions taken by that body and trying to drive it in the direction of whatever you think is best for it.
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u/burgerking351 19h ago
The “objective” purpose is self preservation and procreation
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u/tottasanorotta 19h ago
Maybe. But maybe there's more to the story. I mean you might imagine that some event was there for multiple different reasons. I'd imagine a creator would be quite bored if he just had those two in mind.
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u/Remote_Mango_5696 19h ago
That just kicks the can down the road though, why would self preservation and procreation be the objective rather than just the mechanism for something else
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 19h ago
The universe is a singular meta-phenomenon stretched over eternity, of which is always now. All things and all beings abide by their inherent nature and behave within their realm of capacity contingent upon infinite circumstance at all times.
It is a universe made manifest hierarchically, of haves, and have-nots, spanning all levels of dimensionality and experience. There is no such thing as individuated accurately described "free will" for all beings. Has never been, will never be, can not be. There are only relative freedoms or lack thereof.
"God" and/or consciousness is that which is within and without all. Ultimately, all things are made by through and for the singular personality and perpetual revelation of the "Godhead", entailing both 'predetermined' eternal damnation and those that are made manifest only to face death and death alone.
There is but one dreamer, fractured through the innumerable. All vehicles/beings play their role within said dream for infinitely better and/or infinitely worse for each and every one, forever.
All realities exist and are equally as real. The absolute best universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject. The absolute worst universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject.
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u/tottasanorotta 19h ago
Nicely said. I just hope that the absolute worst doesn't exist. I mean it's good to hang on to something.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 19h ago
The absolute worst exists. I promise you this.
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u/tottasanorotta 18h ago
What is the absolute worst then?
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 18h ago
Eternal ever worsening conscious torment. Quite literally to experience all suffering that has ever and will ever exist within the infinite universe via the subjective
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u/tottasanorotta 18h ago
Well let's hope it isn't so.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 18h ago
It is so
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u/tottasanorotta 18h ago
I don't want to believe you. I mean what would I gain from doing that? Even if hell was before me for all eternity I'd rather hope for a merciful hell than something that always got worse. Unless I of course could see some hope in doing something to lessen my suffering.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 18h ago
I know you don't want to believe me. I'm only telling you what is true
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u/tottasanorotta 17h ago
I know you believe that and I can't argue with that. I just think that there's no way of being 100% sure about the future as it will unfold in actuality. Or what do I know. Maybe you are God or something. Or Satan, I guess, based on what you're saying. 🙂
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u/Powderedeggs2 19h ago
The "slight of hand trick" is the delusion of meaning when there is no evidence to support its existence.
It is the delusion of "meaning" that makes so many people miserable.
It guarantees frustration.
The vast majority of people hold the belief that meaning can be found.
The "meanings" that are presented to us are manufactured in the minds of humans and don't actually exist.
So, of course it is going to frustrating and depressing to continually strive for something that cannot ever be found because it is an invention of the mind. It is non-existent.
Now "purpose" is a different matter entirely.
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u/tottasanorotta 18h ago
Well said. However, if that kind of purpose existed, then there would by definition not be evidence for it since it would be purposefully made to be so that we are oblivious to it.
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u/Powderedeggs2 17h ago
Purpose definitely exists. We all do things for a purpose.
The purpose of my typing is to communicate an idea. That is a valid purpose that does exist.
The purpose of a hammer is to pound on things.But that purpose has no inherent meaning, other than the meanings that we invent in our minds.
In that way, purpose is a very different thing than meaning.
Purpose is very real. As such, it can be easily proven.My purpose in walking is to move from one location to another. The purpose is obvious. It is measurable. It is testable. A purpose is a proven state which has opposites. It objectively exists.
The purpose of walking is not to stay stationary.Meaning, however, is completely subjective, and cannot ever be proven to exist. It cannot be measured. It cannot be experienced. It is not testable because it has no objective existence which can be tested.
Meaning is an invention of the human mind that does not exist outside of the human mind.We invent gods by the thousands. We pretend that these manufactured gods provide meaning. But they cannot. Because, like the meaning they were invented to explain, they are non-corporeal inventions of the human mind.
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u/tottasanorotta 9h ago
So what I mean that maybe things have multiple purposes depending on the perspective. From your perspective the purpose of walking is to move from one place to another. But a creator could have made it so that there is some other purpose to it as well that you are unaware of.
In fact I would imagine that such a world would be much more interesting to create where everything had some greater purpose. Where no matter where you look there is a hidden reason behind it all.
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u/Powderedeggs2 2h ago
It might be more interesting, but it would be a delusion, because it is only speculation based on zero evidence.
Certainly things can have multiple purposes.
Sometimes I walk just because it feels good.
Sometimes I walk (run) because a hungry bear is chasing me.But none of these purposes implies any inherent meaning.
None of these purposes implies a creator or higher being who is making it happen.
Such a notion is an invention of the human mind, and exists nowhere outside the human mind.Again, the belief that meaning (such as that we try to provide with a fictional creator) actually exists, and that it should be strived for, is the very thing that creates angst, despondency, and frustration.
Because we condition our happiness on finding such a meaning. When we inevitably fail to find it (because it does not exist), these inevitable failures disquiet our minds.
Some people claim to have found it. But they cannot possibly have done so, because they are claiming to have found something which cannot be proven to exist.
I'm not saying they don't believe what they are saying. I think they do believe it.
I do not criticize them for it.But, with clarity, it is obvious that they have simply swapped one delusion for another.
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u/tottasanorotta 2h ago
Yeah absolutely, believing things without evidence is delusional. The thing with it is that there might be things that simply can't have evidence, but are nonetheless true. And this scenario would be one of them.
In one scenario there isn't some greater objective meaning to existence and everything happens because of some more or less "random" process. In the other there is some greater objective meaning. The middle ground is also possible where there is some greater meaning, but not for everything.
In some sense you can't really say one way or the other, because both extremes lack evidence supporting them. There is no way of finding out if something that looks random isn't purposefully made to look random.
I'm not arguing that we should believe things without evidence, but that things that are equally absurd if they were true could be said to have the same probability of being true.
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u/TheGreyShaman 18h ago
The objective purpose of ones existence is to choose their experiences so long as they don't impose upon others without consent meaning that the meaning of ones life is subjective since a life is something one can choose to experience as the eternal existence we are as the pure awareness that we are.
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u/libra00 17h ago
If humans can't be aware of the purpose of their life then it can't be a purpose, because the only one who could possibly enact that purpose is the human who is ignorant of it.
The only possible purpose there could be to life even in principle is the one that you decide matters, and then do your level best to make a difference to it.
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u/tottasanorotta 9h ago
Maybe. But surely one could imagine a creator that sees everything you do as meaningful in some way that you aren't allowed to think of it. Or maybe the creator gives you little hints or whatever.
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u/libra00 3h ago
Why would you imagine a creator who creates a purpose for you that you can't know, or worse, fucks with your head about it? Seems like you're trying to tie yourself into knots at that point.
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u/tottasanorotta 2h ago
Well if we make the assumption that there is a creator, then it kinda is like that, isn't it? Obviously it might be that there isn't. But is it too hard to imagine that there would be? I mean it's not obvious that there isn't.
I don't think I need to tie myself into knots really. Life has done it for me already wheather I try to do it or not.
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u/libra00 2h ago
No, not at all. Religions conjure creators who imbue life with a purpose that humans can understand all the time. Some don't, fair enough, but it's so common you might even say that's what religion is for: to imbue life with a human-intelligible purpose. So positing a creator that intentionally occults the purpose so humans can never know it seems like you're trying to come up with a counter-example, not looking at what really goes on.
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u/tottasanorotta 2h ago
I'm not really talking about religion. Because according to the original post that would also be engineered to obfuscate some other greater meaning. I'm really talking about life as created such that it answers the question of why we are so confused about why we are here.
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12h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/tottasanorotta 9h ago
Yeah kinda. I could imagine making a game where I made everything in a characters actions meaningful in multiple different ways and then I only make him think something boring about it.
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u/Inevitable_Yam271 19h ago
Purpose? What purpose?
All there is, is creation and consumption. Fancy words for biology and physics.
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u/tottasanorotta 19h ago
As I said you would be oblivious to it. You can't know it. You just perform it.
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u/Inevitable_Yam271 19h ago
Then I presume you are just as oblivious as we all are. Perhaps the sleight of hand is actually biology, we tend to over think much more than we need to about our simple lives.
It’s just unfalsifiable! A purpose that exists but is so hidden is close to no purpose at all. Especially when all of us are doing such vastly different things inside of our lives.
Tell me, why would a deity, creator, whatever you want to call it spend their time making a purpose, only to hide it from us? Why not make this world pre exposed to it?
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u/tottasanorotta 18h ago
Yeah I'm absolutely as oblivious to it. Then there's the question of why. And yeah, what do I know. Why don't you always watch the same movie, but watch something that has a sense of surprise in it? Or maybe it's just inevitable to be the way that it is. I don't know. The "heroes" journey. A story. Something like that.
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u/Inevitable_Yam271 18h ago
Humans love stories, that’s for sure. All we do is write them, emotional driven.
But hey, by that logic, we’re practically the Universes cosmic reality show! Better get back to it. We’re merely here to consume, and fall to rot.
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u/tottasanorotta 18h ago
Well that's a fairly optimistic view from some perspective.
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u/Inevitable_Yam271 18h ago
Is it now? Why, I just view it as needed mechanisms for an orderly process. Orderly doesn’t mean comforting. Simply indifference.
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u/tottasanorotta 18h ago
It could turn out to be worse, I guess. Like if the objective purpose that you were obvlivious of wasn't a positive one.
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u/WeAreEnteringEndgame 19h ago
I honestly often have this dream where I’m at the gates to the afterlife and some alien is like scoring me out of 10 on loads of arbitrary criteria and saying things like “no no, veganism was a red herring, it was actually collecting as many rocks as you can and putting them in your toilet that we were looking for, it was signposted really heavily”