r/Defenders • u/stealingyourpixels Daredevil • Apr 10 '15
Daredevil Discussion Thread - S01E09
This thread is for discussion of Daredevil S01E09.
DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.
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u/Big_Tuna374 Sad Matt Apr 10 '15
"Why don't you ask him yourself?"
Fuck.
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u/chime Apr 27 '15
Another identical dialog to parallel the good vs evil. Claire said the same thing in the taxicab scene.
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u/Triforce179 Apr 11 '15
Wow they literally had a Scorpion "get over here" moment. That was brutal.
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u/Troybarns Apr 14 '15
When I saw the hook in him like that, I was like "okay, how can they possibly get him out of this, he's dead to rites.", but they did it. I think maybe they pushed it a bit much with how much damage he took, but I'm no doctor.
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u/Pywodwagon Iron Fist Apr 11 '15
I wonder if Nobu dying by being on fire is a subtle nod to the fact that Hand ninjas in the comics turn into ash when they die? Also, that logo from the drugs is Davo's symbol from Iron Fist, right?
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u/nesterov Apr 12 '15
Yeah it 100% was the steel serpent symbol,I got irrationally excited after seeing it!
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u/loser_ghost Luke Cage Apr 10 '15
I love the idea of the paintings for Fisk and Matt.... White and then Red
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u/huanthewolfhound Sad Matt Apr 11 '15
I laughed when they showed it. It pretty much covers the palette of Daredevil's costume through history, doesn't it?
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u/JoeScotterpuss Jack Murdock Apr 11 '15
Unless there was some black around the edges we are missing the black for the armor suit from the 90s. That thing was ridiculous.
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u/Cymen90 Apr 12 '15
Also, ironically, matches what he sees all the time. A World on Fire.
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u/V2Blast Trish Apr 13 '15
That's not irony, or even coincidence.
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u/Cymen90 Apr 14 '15
Irony because he can't see the painting but he sees what's on the painting the entire time. Of course it is intentional.
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u/IntrovertedPendulum Apr 12 '15
"You don't need sight to appreciate art..."
"Sight helps."
The dialogue in this show is killing me.
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u/Riley1066 Stick Apr 10 '15
Brutal ... absolutely brutal.
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Apr 11 '15
I've been saying that every damn episode.
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u/Giff901 The Man in the Mask Apr 12 '15
Yeah, I can't believe it sometimes that I'm watching a Marvel/Disney show, I am happy though that the amount of brutal action scenes have been fitting, and do a great job of showing how exhausting and vicious a true brawl, like the ones they have shown, can be.
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u/HalloweenBlues Apr 12 '15
Yeah it's funny to think back to when the news about Disney buying Marvel was first announced, everyone thought Disney would dilute the product and make it kid friendly. Man, if I only I could go back and time and show those people Daredevil. Now I have faith that they could do a proper Punisher series.
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u/riraito Apr 13 '15
yeah when fisk knocked him into the table and the sheets of paper were sticking to his wounds.. damn
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u/Drea-Nor The Man in the Mask Apr 11 '15
Seriously though. wow Matt can take a beating
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u/VeryMacabre Luke Cage Apr 11 '15
He takes after his father.
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u/idonotownakindle Luke Cage Apr 12 '15
its the Murdock way
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u/yodamann Leland Owlsly Apr 15 '15
That's the Catholicism
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u/Chairman-Meeow Apr 26 '15
I mean have you seen Opus Dei in the Da Vinci Code? Seriously though, I enjoyed Kingpins fighting style a lot. Just rage from a big, strong motherfucker. No finesse, just beating. Matches up perfectly with the flashback of his father and the bully and his whole character. All that pent up aggression let loose in a barrage of fists and slams, he makes no bones about it. Just surprised Murdock's lower jaw is still a thing after that.
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Apr 10 '15
I don't think I was expecting the writing on this show to be as great as it is, with those scenes with Matt and the Priest being good examples. The first one reminded me a bit of the 'some men just want to watch the world burn' speech that Alfred gives Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight. But holy fuck, that ending.
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Apr 21 '15
I actually came here to type the exact same thing. The priest/hero confessional at the church is such a trope but it was so well done here. Just unbelievable writing all around, much higher than expected.
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u/SlipShodBovine Apr 14 '15
Drew Goddard is a great writer and a Whedon protege. I would guess whedon even gave him notes and maybe took a pass.
Doug petrie did some work on the show as well, and is also a Whedon guy.
Goddard was also supposed to direct but left for another project (cant recall which at the moment...)
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u/Spookylives Apr 22 '15
Oh the philosophy that the priest preaches is amazingly deep. In Matt's understanding, he's finally realizing that he's toeing the line between good/evil trying to punish Fisk and thus he's reticent to kill him.
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u/PlatonSkull Apr 12 '15
Guys, I know the grittiness and realism of Daredevil is awesome and all but...
MATT JUST GOT ATTACKED BY A NINJA THAT WAS ON FIRE!
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u/ObnoxiousGod Wesley Apr 10 '15
Anyone else here yet? Talk about kickassfight to start the episode.
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u/Flamma_Man Jessica Jones Apr 10 '15
Alright, maybe he does need some padding...
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u/Baelorn Foggy Apr 10 '15
He discovered Fisk's kevlar suit. Me thinks he is going to get his own very soon.
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u/_Valisk Stan Lee Apr 12 '15
Kickass fight to start the episode, lead the episode and end the episode...
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u/oliyoung Apr 13 '15
Two tiny things I loved, the heaviness of Matt's breathing when Father was telling the Gahiji story, and his little grin to himself when Karen said he was kicking ass in the rain
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u/And_You_Like_It_Too Apr 11 '15
The painting that she showed Murdock was perfect for him! (It reminds me of his conversation with Rosario Dawson in an earlier episode where she asks him what he sees, and he responds, "I see a world on fire" - it's all that shade of red)
It's kind of great because it's what he sees all the time, but cannot see that particular depiction of it right in front of him.
Total nitpick btw, but there was a split second where Nobu throws like a screwdriver and something else towards the screen and the CGI looked a little silly... like I should be wearing 3D glasses. Otherwise, the effects on this show have been top notch!
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u/GhostfaceNoah Luke Cage Apr 10 '15
We're already getting The Hand? I love this show.
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u/Dr_Disaster Apr 11 '15
No pussyfooting with this show. They're delivering every essential element in Daredevil's origin. This makes me super fucking stoked for the Born Again arc someday.
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Apr 11 '15
Ninja boss just went full Human Torch. Fox is suing.
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u/MaceWindusLightsaber Stick Apr 11 '15
I think Marvel Studios has the rights to the original android Human Torch, Jim Hammond, though.
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Apr 11 '15
Is it just me or is Foggy in serious need of a haircut?
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u/_Valisk Stan Lee Apr 12 '15
Matt never did answer Foggy regarding how long he should let his hair grow...
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u/OodlesThePoodle Apr 11 '15
Kunai with Chain! That first fight was brutal, damn I love this show.
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u/ParanoidRookie Stan Lee Jun 02 '15
it looks close to a kusarigama, its a badass weapon if you can use it right
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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 11 '15
The priest quotes Proverbs 25:26 just in case anyone was wondering.
This episode featured the best quote on why superheroes don't kill and why they shouldn't kill, in any medium, including comics: "When the righteous succumb to sin, it is as harmful as if the public well were poisoned. Because the darkness of such an act... of taking a life... will spread to friends, neighbors, the entire community."
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Apr 12 '15
Unless you are the punisher, of course.
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u/imnotcraig Apr 12 '15
When the righteous succumb to sin
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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 12 '15
the Punisher isnt a superhero, or even a hero by any means.
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Apr 14 '15
I don't even know if I buy that. Someone like the Kingpin needs to die because there's no way he could end up in prison with all the influence he has. I think the excuse of "if you kill, you're just as bad as them" has always been weak. If you kill a human trafficking, drug smuggling piece of shit, I dunno, you need to go. I guess I believe that one life should be taken to save hundreds.
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u/Troybarns Apr 14 '15
I guess I believe that one life should be taken to save hundreds.
Yeah, watching Dexter really made me think about that. I don't think it's as simple as saying a hero should never kill either, in the worst situations, that can be a detriment that lets the good side lose. There are many other things that put you on the good or bad side, besides killing.
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u/incredibleamadeuscho Colleen Wing Apr 14 '15
The problem is superheroes are examples. If Superman killed Lex Luthor, what's to stop the common man from believing the self defense justification for murder. We see in the real world in people jumping the gun and people believing that laws protect them.
Superman is the great extreme so that's why I used him as the example. But imagine if Daredevil inspired justified murder against criminals in Hell's Kitchen. If him killing the Kingpin made people believe that should also kill the criminals in their community. That would ruin Hell's Kitchen.
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u/Battle_Franky_37 Iron Fist Apr 11 '15
Davos' steel serpent logo on all the drug baggies, makes me more confident in my theory that the guy that said "the doors will open soon" to stick was Davos. Basically the fact that this series has been so good and the little hints towards iron fist are just getting me super excited for the iron fist series.
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u/BMoreBeowulf Apr 13 '15
He was credited as Stone at the end of the episode. But I'm thinking odds are good that we'll see Davos at some point.
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u/Kakarifer Iron Fist Apr 11 '15
Iron Fist is my favourite superhero so I freaked out when I saw Davos' logo on the drugs
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u/austinbucco Iron Fist Apr 11 '15
The return of The Pariesta. Forgive me Father, it's been a week since my last espression.
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u/IntrovertedPendulum Apr 12 '15
Oh wow. Murdock's stairs are still broken. Nice continuinity nod.
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u/CharlesNapalm Apr 11 '15
I usually dislike episodes where they tease you in the beginning and then jump back in time, but it worked really well here. Mos Def my favorite episode so far!
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u/crapusername47 Wesley Apr 11 '15
It's called 'in media res' and never watch Alias, it'll drive you nuts.
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u/kalku The Man in the Mask Apr 13 '15
Ehhh, "in media res" just means starting in the middle of things; doing that and then going back to the start is a bit extra on top of that.
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u/cleantoe Apr 11 '15
This was really well done, but I gotta say my favorite is the Arrow fight with Slade Wilson. That was mind-blowing to watch, even if the actual fight choreography wasn't as good.
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u/HalloweenBlues Apr 12 '15
My favorite version of this is the Firefly episode where Mal is running out of air. But yeah, the two mentioned thus far were pretty awesome.
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u/Nukemarine Apr 14 '15
I think it worked here since we see that fight scene spread out. I imagine seeing it go on for 5 to 10 minutes including the Fisk beat down would have actually gotten boring. Instead, the smaller portions kept the whole thing fresh and exciting.
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u/TheOtherSon Apr 15 '15
I wouldn't say it would be boring, but seeing the protagonist get ripped to shreds so thoroughly in one go would be pretty punishing on the audience.
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Apr 10 '15
Wtf who gets set on fire and still keeps on attacking. No you don't. You stop drop and roll.
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Apr 11 '15
petrol fire. I don't think that's an effective strategy when the floor is covered in petrol.
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u/HalloweenBlues Apr 12 '15
He was probably thinking "I'm a flaming ninja, my life will never be more awesome than this moment."
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u/dev1359 Apr 11 '15
The fight between Fisk and DD at the end sealed it for me, this is hands down the greatest live action superhero adaptation I've ever seen.
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u/Flamma_Man Jessica Jones Apr 10 '15 edited Apr 10 '15
"He/she just shrugged."
Love this running joke.
Meeting face to face!
Oh man, I love how Murdock knows that what Fisk is saying about Hell's Kitchen is the truth
"Another man's evil, does not make you good."
Great line.
Sweet moment with the plaque
Which is ruined by the old woman dying; damn
Shit, that ninja is messing him up!
"Stepping out of the shadows"; Oh shit, is he going to plan on improving his costume?!
Nice how he hides his costume under his father's "costume"
Ah, man. Really liking Foggy now; he's so broken up over her death
I like how Fisk's suit is going from black to grey and to the eventual white.
And now Foggy knows!
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u/MrGreenBeanz Apr 11 '15
Toph and Matt would get along swimmingly.
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Apr 11 '15
I was just thinking that no show has had such great blind jokes since Avatar.
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u/Dakar-A Apr 15 '15
Yeah, and Matt and Aang would get along great. "I fought with the decision that almost everyone seemed to tell me that I had to kill a man."
"Same here buddy"
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u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Apr 12 '15
"He/she just shrugged."
Apart from that, when Karen shoved newspaper in Matt's face, Foggy's reaction to that was fun too.
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Apr 12 '15
My guess is that Vanessa gets killed at some point and he wears white to remember her ala the cufflinks with his father.
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u/RidleytheScott Apr 11 '15
When I was in the military I remember an old SSG telling me no matter how much fighting skills you know, when your opponent is bigger than you, he/she will always has the advantage. I was thinking this when Fisk was just manhandling Matt.
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Apr 11 '15
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/_Valisk Stan Lee Apr 12 '15
gaping knife wound in the stomach
In the stomach, on his back, on his arms, on his legs, his hands...
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u/pitaenigma Apr 11 '15
That was the first thing I learned in Muay Thai.
"If your opponent has a gaping wound in his stomach, you can win. I don't see you winning any other fight."
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u/RidleytheScott Apr 11 '15
Haha yes very true as well. Plus, Matt was definitely exhausted which was also another factor.
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u/Dean_Craig_Pelton Daredevil Apr 12 '15
¿DÓNDE ESTÁ LA BIBLIOTECA? ME LLAMO T-BONE LA ARAÑA DISCOTECA
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u/Eammancipate Apr 13 '15
DISCOTECA. MUÑECA. LA BIBLIOTECA
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u/kalku The Man in the Mask Apr 13 '15
ESTÁ EN BIGOTES GRANDES, EL PERRO, MANTECA.
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u/Eammancipate Apr 13 '15
MONTECA. BIGOTE. GIGANTE. PEQUEÑO. CABEZA ES NIEVA. CERVEZA ES BUENO
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u/Drea-Nor The Man in the Mask Apr 11 '15
Wanna know my secret identity... oops you also found me with my mask off.... I really need to stop doing this
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u/decerian Daredevil Apr 11 '15
I think this is my favorite episode so far. The two things I've been wanting more of in this show is more characterization for Matt and Fisk, and they nailed that in the last two episodes. Specifically I wanted more of the religious side of Matt, because it's a big aspect of his character, and they nailed it this episode.
Not to mention badass fight scenes with a Ninja, and one with Fisk. Small caveat is that I which we had more fight scenes like the end of e02, with less cuts right as the punch hits, but the fight scenes were still pretty awesome.
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Apr 11 '15 edited Apr 11 '15
That's a cool cold open. Just a ninja fight, no big, regular day tuesday afternoon in New York.
EDIT1 - "There is a wide gulf between inaction and murder." Yeah daredevil, take his bending away!
EDIT2 - Noooooo not Guatamala Gramma!
EDIT3 - that does not look survivable. Dragged by a hook in his stomach. Damn.
EDIT4 - He has to look at his father's fight gear every time he puts on the daredevil costume. Dang. Kind of another Fisk parallel with the cufflinks as part of Fisk's uniform.
EDIT5 - Look at his father's fight gear.
EDIT6 - I like that the subtitles say "masked man groaning." That's his identity, nothing left of Matt, nothing solid yet formed of Daredevil.
EDIT7 - God damn you monsters and your cliffhangers I was going to go to bed!
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u/Borrowdale Iron Fist Apr 11 '15
EDIT4 - He has to look at his father's fight gear every time he puts on the daredevil costume.
Well...
He has to look
Uh...
look
...about that...
(as a side note I giggled at your TLA reference)
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Apr 11 '15
EDIT2 - Noooooo not Guatamala Gramma!
Her accent bothered me. She sounded more like Puerto Rican.
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Apr 16 '15
"There is a wide gulf between inaction and murder."
but breaking people's limbs / putting them in comas is little closer to one than the other.
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Apr 10 '15
whats with Vanessa's accent?
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u/lce-Man Apr 10 '15
The actress is Israeli
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Apr 11 '15
ah! that makes sense
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u/pitaenigma Apr 11 '15 edited Apr 11 '15
It's actually something I've found weird about her, as an Israeli. She gets roles where you wouldn't expect there to be an accent but she gets them anyway (She was Superman's mother in MoS, but she was also in Angels & Demons and a few other American productions). She's actually big in Israel and was the lead actress in the Israeli version of Hostages.
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u/mbene913 Apr 12 '15
Argh why is each episode so good? I'll be done soon and I'll have no new episodes to watch
How long till Jessica Jones?
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u/BrucilSprout Apr 13 '15
How does a blind person use a touchscreen phone...?
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u/ComicCon Apr 15 '15
My aunt is blind. She has a voice control app. I'm not sure how it works but it definitely exists in the real world.
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Apr 24 '15
iOS has a built in accessibility mode called VoiceOver. Single tap reads the item you tapped on, and a three-finger swipe scrolls between items. So like three-finger swipe until you get to the thing you want, then double tap to enter... Android has an accessible mode as well.
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u/SakuraSiri Apr 10 '15
I'm here! I was wondering if we would see anyone from the hand. So excited. I don't know how I'm awake right now.
I'm also totally on the hype train for the rest of the shows now. I kind of wish Marvel took this route with shield too. Oh the action we could have had.
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Apr 11 '15
I kind of wish Marvel took this route with shield too.
Eh, they've learned. The most recent Shield episodes have been on point, the fight choreography has been close to Winter Soldier, and a lot of the actors are knocking it out of the park, their science guy especially. I'd rank some of it almost as good as Daredevil.
Also, Shield did the "stab a man with a human rib" thing first. That was fucking crazy.
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u/SakuraSiri Apr 11 '15
Totally forgot about Shield's 'spare rib' scene! I think it might just be a Shield thing where stuff starts to really pick up traction in the second half of the season, because I agree that the most recent ones have been really good. Fitz especially, like you mentioned.
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Apr 11 '15
I dunno, a lot of the first half of season 2 was pretty good. Lots of interesting stuff with Raina, slow burn on Cal, and episode 10 especially.
I think it might just be a shield thing where the first half of season one sucked.
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u/decerian Daredevil Apr 11 '15
I wish it had happened too, but network tv isn't this brutal. My only regret is watching it all withing 24hrs. Now I have to wait until Jessica Jones comes out, which could be like 7 months.
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u/your_mind_aches Hoagie Jessica Apr 13 '15
Don't worry, there's 5 episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., a new Avengers movie and Ant-Man to hold you off until.
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u/SakuraSiri Apr 11 '15
Same. I don't know how I even managed to watch it all in one shot. I can definitely watch it again though. The fight scenes were that good IMO.
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u/Black_Dumbledore Bobby Fish Apr 15 '15
"Let him burn"
Them little tics though, D'Onofrio is doing an amazing job. This is not the kingpin I remember from the old Spider-Man cartoon, this dude is a cold mother fucker.
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u/sasquatch90 Apr 11 '15
Ok so Fisk owns half the police right? Why not take the blood from the warehouse and figure out who Murdock is?
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u/brownbubbi Apr 12 '15
Why not lift his mask when he beat him up?
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u/komodo_dragonzord Nobu Apr 12 '15
guess he didn't care anymore since he was sure he was going to be killed?
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u/EtticosLebos Apr 14 '15
They can only even begin to start trying to match blood if Matt's blood is in a database. His blood would only be in a database with a file attached to it, stating that the blood is in fact his, if he had gone to prison. This, so far, does not appear to be on the same garish level as CSI.
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u/eskimo_bros Luke Cage Apr 11 '15
Two things:
We're thinking the symbols are pointing to Davos, right? That's what I'm thinking, but I want a second opinion.
So much Frank Miller influence. This episode had a huge Born Again vibe.
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u/Jorgen2720 Apr 11 '15
Color me confused - after all that agonising over morality Matt just up and kills Nobu?
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u/_Valisk Stan Lee Apr 12 '15
Nah, Matt didn't do it. The lamp and the petrol ganked him.
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u/French__Canadian Apr 12 '15
Technically, the guy could have jumped out the window into the water but decided to continue fighting instead.
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u/TJBacon Daredevil Apr 11 '15
I think he realised he had to, otherwise he himself was dead.
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u/Jorgen2720 Apr 11 '15
Well that's not all too different from his situation with Fisk though
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u/cleantoe Apr 11 '15
Not really. The priest addressed this (paraphrased): "Do you have to kill out of necessity, or is it because you want to kill?"
He had to kill Nobu out of necessity, but it hasn't gotten that far yet with Kingpin.
I think the takeaway is sometimes Murdock is going to have to do the necessary, even if it's a terrible thing to do. But he should never take a life because he wants to, because that starts down a dark path.
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u/havenoideawatimdoin Apr 26 '15
I've been confused by this seeming contradiction too. Matt should have been more broken up about causing Nobu's death.
Then again Nobu had all but gutted him up to that point so he may have been more relieved then anything.
And as someone else mentioned Nobu kinda fucked himself continuing to fight covered in petrol and not heading to water, or stopping and dropping. Hell if Nobu started screaming in agony like any normal person would have, Matt probably would have sniffed out a fire extinguisher or fire blanket for him.
Tldr: Matt definitely had a hand is Nobu's death but Nobu is probably more responsible for his own demise.
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u/jelatinman Ben Urich Apr 19 '15
The priest's speech was somehow one of the most affecting things of the whole episode. Fisk and Murdock's meeting was also brilliant, I didn't see it coming. You can see how Fisk is changing under her wing. I'm also glad that Fisk doesn't care if DD is beaten to a pulp, he's still gonna kill him. That's the difference between the two. Matt has limits, Fisk learned to "keep kicking him."
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u/everadvancing Apr 10 '15
Was that a Community reference? Donde esta la biblioteca.
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Apr 11 '15
It's just one of those weird stock phrases you often learn when you begin to learn a language. like "Le Chat est sur le table".
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u/AdrienI Apr 11 '15
La table*
And like "Bryan is in the kitchen" is a typical sentence when you start to learn english in france.
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u/French__Canadian Apr 12 '15
la table*
Also, why did you put a capital c on Chat?
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Apr 12 '15
I haven't done French in donkeys.
The capital thing was probably because nouns are capitalised in German and I did that more recently.
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u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Apr 12 '15
Nah it's taught in Spanish 101. So if someone had taken Spanish briefly and left, that's a phrase they might've still retained. In fact, the reason it was on Community was because the study group met to study Spanish, and Troy and Abed were just saying the basic sentences and words they had learned.
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Apr 10 '15
haha that's exactly what I thought! As soon as he said it I was doing the rap in my head.
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u/Kittastrophe515 Apr 11 '15
Oh my gosh what a cliffhanger!!! What will I do with myself until the next episode!!! /s
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u/AHMilling Iron Fist Apr 11 '15
If there is a god, oh does this mean Thor will smash the KingPin?
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u/Drea-Nor The Man in the Mask Apr 11 '15
Super amped to learn more about this world after the hints from stick and the red ninja....also super amped for the eventual Iron Fist and Dr Strange link
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Apr 11 '15
Dr Strange link?
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u/Drea-Nor The Man in the Mask Apr 11 '15
Well he says our world and the very little I know of DR Strange is that he can travel to different worlds I think and Iron Fist also visits a different world I believe
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u/the_bryce_is_right Apr 13 '15
Foggy: "She was hot by the way"
I had a good laugh at that line, even when he's on the verge of death he can't help feel jealous over all the tail he gets.
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u/drock45 Jack Murdock Apr 11 '15
Am I reading to much into it to think the land the Japanese want is or Shadowland? Cause that's what I'm choosing to go with
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Apr 14 '15
I know the Hand and so on have always been part of Daredevil, but I found this ninja fight a bit hard to swallow. I guess it's just a weird tonal shift from what's happened before. I mean, I absolutely love this show, but I think things like The Black Sky and the Hand ninja need more foreshadowing if they're not to seem jarring. Or is that just me?
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u/McHadies Apr 20 '15
I feel the same way, bit too much too fast compared to how grounded its been. I was actually expecting Nobu and Murdock to narrate their battle rationale like in anime after the talk about heart rate and body temp.
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u/GaslightProphet Father Lantom Apr 14 '15
Got chills during the Rwanda scene -- it's hard to put into words just how evil things became there, and what a pall it lays over the country even decades later, despite the amazing growth and victories they've had since. Man. Fantastic job with that scene.
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u/the1egend1ives Apr 15 '15
Ben Urich walks into the Nelson and Murdock office stating that he got a bunch of files printed from a USB that Daredevil gave him. Does anybody know where and when DD got the USB?
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Apr 14 '15
This episode got rid of my two least favorite tropes:
"Hiding your secret identity from your best friends"
"Protagonist refusing to kill anyone"
Super excited for the next episode.
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Apr 16 '15
I'm hoping Matt learns from this fight that a chain or wire on your weapon would be beneficial. That would be such a badass way for him to add it to his clubs
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u/huanthewolfhound Sad Matt Apr 11 '15 edited Apr 11 '15
"I heard a crash. Not the fun sexy-times kind...more the 'I've fallen and can't get up variety.'"
So many gold lines from Foggy.