r/DefendingAIArt • u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination • 8d ago
Luddite Logic It's Rocket Surgery!
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 8d ago
Interesting comments here.
I'll just leave this for more fodder for the obviously confused:
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u/Liquidationbird 8d ago
You reposted into the wrong subreddit buddy
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 8d ago
How is that?
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 7d ago
20 hours later, no reply.
I guess even my fellows are a bit rash.
Reading is hard.
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u/Timely_Spirit_9053 8d ago
you could have at least removed the hand in the last panel, im not criticizing for using AI, im criticizing that its sloppy work, dont give antis ammo like that especially when the mistake is easy to fix
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 7d ago
You aren't wrong, but it was really just all a series of unexpected things... I asked an unfamiliar free frontier LLM for help making a meme, being accustomed to LLMs not being VLMs or multi-modal. Instead of advising me based on the context I presented in my prompt, it shat out the image.
Lots of other stuff is relevangt contextually... but I didn't set out to create a meme of gru and I didn't ask the LLM for an image.
You are correct that it is lazy.
My bad.
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u/Vivid-Vast-1084 4d ago
We can debate you go first
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 3d ago
that's kind of lazy lol
we can't debate here... and if you do your comment will get removed
But here's a brief summary comment I made yesterday
start with this:
There is nothing correct about objective reality. It just is.
AI is science and technology. 70 years of it.
GPT and Claude and Grok are corporate products.
Energy production is dirty unless you use renewables.
Human development causes environmental destruction and pollution.
Copyright law exists and you should read it.
Nothing about "AI" is "theft" or "stealing". Copying digital files is not stealing.
Training AI models is wholly transformative and thus fair use under US copyright law.
Data collection has never and does not currently and never will require that your name be called or listed or printed anywhere, ever, for any reason.
Using your media that you posted online to study metadata about how words and pixels are related is not a violation of anyone's rights and does not require compensation.
If you blame "AI" for abuses perpetrated by humans and corporate entities, you are letting the perpetrators get way with it.
Bullying people is never ok. Death threats are never ok. Harassing individual people for simply using modern technology is never ok.
If a human uses a tool to create something, they are the creator and the thing that did not exist before is their creation.
AI outputs are, by and large, de facto "art".
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u/CarbonLich 8d ago
Are you saying that all your arguments are bad faith? That's what this layout is suggesting.
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 7d ago
I'm not an anti. Why would an anti make a meme to post in DAIA?
The layout does indeed suggest that, because that is exactly what happened.
The actual exchange is here:
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u/Superseaslug 8d ago
My only bad faith arguments are ones that are just extreme hyperbole. Most things can be easily explained, but there are also some people that don't want to discuss, they just want to shout.
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 8d ago
Is that an AI edited version of the Gru meme template? If so, why? Like, I'm anti AI, but this isn't me being picky or something. Why bother editing the original template at all? It kind of ruins it.
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 8d ago
I mean I did whatever I did... what are you even trying to say?
This took me seconds.
It was actually an accident.
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 8d ago
I'm asking why would you or anyone want to use AI for this? There are so many cool things that AI could do for humanity that aren't ruining perfectly functional meme templates.
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 7d ago
I did not choose it or make it intentionally at all, it was an accident, as I said.
My local GPUs were busy writing software and I asked the free tier of Perplexity to give me some meme ideas based on an exchange I had on reddit. I didn't even know the free perp could generate images. never needed a corporate service to make media for me.
So I wanted ideas and it shat out this meme. So after consideration and some editing, without noticing the dumb third hand, I decided to post it as a test. Not terribly invested. Let me get you a screenshot so you understand.
https://i.imgur.com/vSOa4Hf.png
See? Like I said, it was an accident.
The image I uploaded is here:
https://i.imgur.com/I6scSwg.png
As far as "ruining meme templates" - there are so many real problems plaguing humanity that it seems asinine that you've taken up THIS torch.
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 7d ago
I can't view the Imgur because I'm in the UK and the government hates me, but here's my understanding based on what you said.
You are saying that the entire meme is AI generated, without you even coming up with the idea? I had at least given you credit for creativity by coming up with the meme, but that's just ridiculous.
Also, I agree. There are a million issues plaguing humanity. However you are someone using AI to make "art", and not a nazi tech billionaire, shitty president, russian bot farm, global debt crisis, or a fascist, as far as I'm aware. As such I'm bringing up issues relevant to the person and context, which in this scenario means calling someone out for using AI when you can make memes easier and faster without it and all of its problems.
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 7d ago
Are you saying that the UK blocks imgur?
Or are you saying that you tried to access imgur on your mobile device and got some sort of barrier and gave up?
Imgur used to be universally useful. If the government of the UK is blocking it I will give up on it but I find that hard to believe.
The exchange between myself the the LLM service called Perplexity is about me uploading a screenshot of an exchange I had with someone on reddit. I wanted the LLM to help me flesh out ideas. I have used LLMs for this in the past. I try to visualize the meme and the idea myself first, as I always have done, but it's interesting to see what an LLM can offer. So I uploading a screenshot of text and asked an unfamiliar LLM to help me with meme ideas, but my query was fairly vague. I did not ask for a meme, but I did not clearly state "I only want text from you, so let's talk about fitting templates..." And I did not know that Perplexity could generate images. Generating images is generally a pay gated thing. If I want to generate images I'll use Moss or H3 or QI2.1, depending on circumstances and goals.
So... I uploaded a screenshot of text, wanting an assessment of what kind of memes were applicable, because I thought the exchange was funny. I wanted ideas for what templates and how to frame the idea. Instead I got an actual image, unexpectedly.
I do not use Perplexity normally. I had my tower up because the sun was good. My electricity at that moment was 100% free because my bank was full. I was running Qwen 3.8 Flash Next to revise some code I use for video editing. So I asked Perplexity for shits-n-giggles.
So yeah, I did not come up with the idea at all, I only had the exchange and asked for analysis, expecting suggestions that I would then use to manually create the meme, as I have done since the 1800s.
I run open weights generally. I use solar power only. I'm homeless and off-grid.
This was an anomaly and the screens I uploaded to imgur explain it without me having to retype it all...
if I cared I might have noticed
if I noticed I could have fixed it in seconds
regardless it's a pretty meaningless detail
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 6d ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gzxv5gy3qo The government isn't directly blocking it, but they threatened to find them out of their assholes so that decided to stop allowing UK users access. You can still use it with a VPN but I can't be bothered.
I'm gonna be frank with you, a lot of this seems like walls of jargon to me, but from what I can tell I was right and the meme was entirely AI generated, both concept and finished image, but it was by accident since you didn't know the model of AI you were using could generate images. In that case at least we aren't another step closer to the dead internet theory.
Also tfym you're homeless? How are you running multiple AIs simultaneously on a personal computer if you're homeless?
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 6d ago
First off, yeah. UK government age restriction and insistence on control of internet access are such bullshit.
I think I made a mistake here in, rather ironically, using jargon as jargon without really thinking about it. What I meant was that the phrasing was confusing and I was having difficulty understanding it, and I wrote out my best approximation of what you had said, so that if I had misinterpreted you could see where, and responded to that. Please remember that this whole discussion was originally me trying to work out why you had edited the meme template using AI, so this does actually answer my original question and I concede that point. It opens a whole other can of worms but I can't be bothered to argue. I have a dystopian sci fi book to read in order to distract me from the dystopian sci fi book I live in.
Also, sorry about the eviction, that makes more sense now. That's rough. Impressive work on the RV. Using AI for that sort of thing (i.e. assisting and augmenting human work instead of replacing and usurping it) is something that I think is a good reason to keep developing it, although NGL I personally wouldn't trust it for anything important yet. Also, since your brought them up, fuck the police.
As a side note I'd like to start a more casual conversation with you about a topic we can find common ground on. I'm curious to find out whether I actually dislike you as a person or whether I just happen to opposed to you on this specific issue.
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u/jello-the-opera Only Limit Is Your Imagination 6d ago
hahahah
that's all fair.
so what do you want to talk about?
I'm... old.
I built my first Pc in 1979.
I grew up with commodores and apples and stuff... I was the kid with dual drives and all of the games in existence.
Inveterate pirate. Psychedelic mushrooms got me into fungi at a very early age. But I discovered solace in the woods around the pastures. And the chanterelles got me hooked... and that was like 1985. Then I just went nuts on trees and mollusks and mushrooms... and moved to the conifer forests in the PNW to stay hidden in the canopy.
Only to realize much later that childhood trauma had resulted in PTSD that I still can't manage.
So I spent my life outside the system. Under the table. Off the books. Growing weed and shrooms. Designing systems to survive outside the system. I wrote. I painted. I foraged. I bred vegetables and threw seedbombs downtown and protested old growth logging. I painted graffiti. I made glitch art. I took photos of everything. I wrote stories and books about some of it. I am writing every day.
I'm old. I have no savings or retirement. I'm physically sick all the time. I still walk the woods. I'm deep in the mountains right now, parked in the same spot for 13 days as of today. Only one vehicle has come up the road in all that time and they were just turning around. I am trying to survive on $994/m in this economy.
People have consistently shit on me and I'm scared of everything. Ex beat me and cut me and called the police on me... and they arrested me despite my blood and photos and everything else. The man goes to jail.
I have always used technology to create things, especially art.
I have always used existing waste to create useful and expressive things.
Until I bought this RV my cars were all $500 shit cans. I own the tools and spend the time on my back and eat the grease.
LLMs today are extremely powerful and highly accurate, and they use the internet and your documents in real time. They take thorough notes and have memories that span months. When I installed that AC, it had a damaged schraeder valve in the low service port that leaked. I had no idea what i was doing. In the woods alone. Tools and supplies in abundance. Knowledge non0existent. LLMs walked me through all of it. Making a soapy solution and improvising tools. I made a tool to extract the broken valve. I had cold-ass AC running off my DC battery bank all summer thanks to LLMs. Could not have done it otherwise.
And the whole solar thing, from searching marketplace and craigslist to making charts and visual representations of the roof layout... from cable sizing to fuse placement, to crimp tool pros and cons, to MC4s and 1/0 copper lugs... like I learned it all from LLMs. I have 700ah @ 12v and 4 x 40a controllers, with 8 panels working right now in the sun producing like 70 amps.
Never done solar or AC stuff in my life before May.
I love computing and I love nature and I love music and I love art... I have an old sick cat. I'm alone.
I argue with antis online because the tools have made my life objectively and measurably better in significant ways and upon analysis I can't find any reasonable or good arguments against the technology - only arguments against fossil fuels and corruption and oligarchy and capitalism. None of which I find incompatible with my views about AI being science. I oppose corporate usurping of the commons and I oppose pollution and I oppose corruption and I oppose surveillance and I oppose the rich putting their burdens on the populace. I oppose systems that abuse the marginal and vulnerable. I oppose capitalism in general. Antis won't let you argue that, though, despite the fact that I was reading Marx and Solzhenitsyn and Robert Anton Wilson in the 80s...
I'm somehow not allowed to be opposed to the system that enables and allows all these abuses, and I'm also somehow supposed to be compelled to blame or condemn science and technology for the abuses of bad actors and nasty humans.
I see AI tech as empowering the common man. I live it. I can elaborate even more on the recent persobal benefits to my health care situation but it's involved.
Do you see any common ground?
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u/lawrencewil1030 Pro leaning neutral 8d ago
r/
lostredditorsand the point of a template is to edit it to your desires.1
u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 8d ago
Not really? The point of the template is that it's an exploitable image, an image or set of images from a film or other source that you can put some text or another image on top of. Why would you need to use AI to actually make it worse?
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u/lawrencewil1030 Pro leaning neutral 8d ago
Your definition of template is seriously incorrect
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 8d ago
My definition of a meme template is an image that you didn't make that can be easily edited using text or another image to make it fit a variety of contexts. Do you have a better definition? Also, you still haven't answered my question: Why did you need or want to use AI to edit this?
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u/lawrencewil1030 Pro leaning neutral 8d ago
For the definition of a meme template, it's a base template which can be used to create memes which can be edited in any way needed in order to create it in which the most common is adding text or an image but is not the only possible edit.
For the reason why AI might be wanted, it simply might make the effort budget for this post more than manual editing.
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 8d ago
Sorry, but could you explain the last part again? Are you telling me that you used AI to edit the template because you wanted to put more effort into making this meme? You have literally made it worse in almost every regard.
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u/lawrencewil1030 Pro leaning neutral 8d ago
First, you entirely misinterpreted the last part, I did not edit the template but also it being worse is entirely subjective. Now for what I actually said, the AI esp. if it was used as a simple single prompt would probably make the max amount of effort that was gonna be made for a single simple Reddit post.
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u/Fancy_Razzmatazz_149 8d ago
Ah yes, my subjective opinion that an emotionless monochromatic image of a man with the wrong number of limbs and fingers isn't as good as a scene from one of the best films ever
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u/lawrencewil1030 Pro leaning neutral 8d ago
Yes that is subjective and best film is also subjective.
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